We need to buy a car...

[Kazak]

We don't WANT to necessarily, but my wife and I NEED to buy a car. We're thinking Toyota...reliable, affordable...but, aren't sold yet. Keeping in mind the inescapable realities of Peak Oil staring us in the face, what advice do the good people at DU have for us?

[silverlib]

1. Ralph Nader drives a Honda Civic...

I think he's a lousy presidential candidate, but he does know about safety and environment.

[fleetus]

5. Civic is a great car.

If you don't like buying cars, the Civic will last quite a long time. Also, it's available in hybrid if you can afford the price bump and you want to top already great mileage.

[Snow]

31. Leonardo diCaprio drives a Honda Insight....

I think he's a lousy actor & I don't like his roles, but by all accounts he's a genuine decent guy.

[coltman]

2. we really like our chevy Impala n/t

[CO Liberal]

3. I Drive a 2002 Chevy S-10 Pickup

4-cylinder and a 5-speed. It gets about 25 MPG, it's got a comfortable ride, and with a cap on the back we can transport our dogs without getting covered in dog hair.

Plus it comes in handy for hauling stuff.

This year, Chevy replaced the S-10 with a new model called the Colorado. It looks a bit bigger inside.

[Catshrink]

4. One of the hybrids...

Their mileage is astounding. I hope that will be my next car, even though that will be a while.

[Kazak]

6. Anybody have a particular problem with a Toyota, over say a Honda?

Huh?

[Catshrink]

7. Both are very reliable..

I heard on NPR that the Toyota Avalon has more domestic content than a Ford Explorer.

[stopthegop]

10. I had a 1990 Camry go for 236K miles...

hard to beat

[Tripper11]

8. Have a look at Hyundai

We bought a 2002 XG350, their top of the line luxury car. It's base price is under $25,000.
They have a variety of cars and their reputation is almost equal to Honda now. They have come a long way and have an excellent warranty (100,000 miles or 10 years Bumper to Bumper).
We are extremely happy with ours and their prices are very competitive.

[lojasmo]

9. VW TDI

I drive a golf TDI. 40 MPG in city, 48 HWY. If the stuff goes down, it can be run on biodiesil. (fuel made from biomass) IF you're looking for something bigger than a golf/jetta/new beetle, they're coming out with a passat TDI in the fall of 04. the TDI engine is rated for 10,000 hours of use, nearly 500,000 miles at 50 MPH. I LOVE mine. I'll never buy another gasoline engine auto.

[trogdor]

27. Do the bodies hold up that long?

I guess that might depend on where you drive. Keeping the car washed and waxed is lots easier than rebuilding the engine, though.

[cprise]

35. 12 Year rust-through warranty on bodies

...at least with my 2001.

I heard the warranties have improved since then.

[Az]

11. Just bought a VW Jetta 1.8T

Love it so far. Replaced a Dodge Stratus. Smaller but better car. Can't think of anything negative to say about it.

[ConcernedCanuk]

12. I'd say it depends on where you live

.
.

I don't have a problem with any car really, but my personal preference is large vehicles, small ones really do not fare well in accidents.

If that is not a concern for you then then the next criteria for choosing would be service

For example, if you live in a small town, there are not usually not too many people that work on imports, so one of the "Big Three" would be more realistic.

Conversely, if you say live in SanDee California

- just buy whatever your little hearts desires! (Well, not a Gremlin or Pinto)


and if you are not driving a whole lot of mileage, the money you save on buying a comfy old Chevy, Chrysler or Ford product might buy alot of gas

Just a few Canuk thoughts - -

[cprise]

13. A Volkswagen TDI

The only car you can get 50mpg and still run it on renewable energy.

I bought a Golf TDI in 2001 and its been both reliable and fun to drive. I fuel it with biodiesel most of the time.

The TDIs also hold excellent resale value.

Advanced turbodiesels like these are how Europe is cleaning up their emissions.

[jmowreader]

17. He's talking biodiesel

The process for making it is pretty simple--use a lye-alcohol mix to make soap out of waste vegetable oil. (If you're willing to clean out the grease trap, most restaurants will give it to you--it beats paying a hauler to take it away.) Pour off the liquid that comes to the top and filter it. That's your biodiesel.

You can also buy it, and if you're the least bit hesitant to handle chemicals, do that. Lye does not play games.

There are recipes for biodiesel on the Internet. And the TDI is a very nice engine.

[pagerbear]

18. Biodiesel

I didn't know that making your own bio-diesel was safe and legal. Do your exhaust fumes smell like French fries--excuse me, freedom fries?

[Kellanved]

26. yes

Really, I'm not kidding. Especially older cars smell like popcorn stand, when they use Biodiesel.

[cprise]

32. It is mildly french-fry smelling

...if you stand in back of the car while its running.

Keep in mind though, that most biodiesel is unused soybean oil that is surplus from production of products using soy meal. Something like 300,000 million gallons of soy oil per year. I but mine at the pump from a regional supplier that has their product ASTM-certified.

I think of it as freedom from oil companies.

[jmowreader]

37. It's safe if you know how to handle chemicals

The key to the whole system is a mixture of sodium hydroxide and methanol. This is not something you want to be screwing around with if you haven't handled strong chemicals before.

As far as legality goes, the big one is road tax. When you burn gasoline or auto diesel, you pay your road tax when you fill up. Since homemade biodiesel isn't taxed at the pump, you would probably need to work with the DOT and your state highway department to do a lump-sum road tax payment setup. They're used to it--this is how heavy truck operators pay their road tax. (Go to a truck stop and look at the prices on the diesel pumps. One pump will be priced quite a lot cheaper than the other, and it will say "trucks only" or something like that. I've even heard of a few truck stops that use very large nozzles, so you can't fuel a car from them.)

[Kellanved]

25. TDIs

Just to be sure to get one with the new French filter technology. The standard filters let all sorts of nasty emissions pass through. And the cars with filters are expected to have a better resale value.

[tridim]

14. I'm looking very hard at the VW Golf TDI

Simply because it gets >45mpg! I'm just waiting for an impartial party to convince me that new VWs aren't like late 80's VWs which were built horribly IMO.

[CanuckAmok]

20. my former business partner has a '99 Jetta

It's the VR6, not the TDI, but it's a very well designed and assembled car. He has put well over 200,000Kms (126,000miles) on his, much of that on gravel and cobble roads, and it's still as tight and quiet as the day he bought it. The only problem he had was something wrong with the wiring harness to the rear brake/reverse lights, wich caused the reverse lights to go on whenever the brake lights came on. That was completely under warranty. In fact, the second time the problem occurred, it was outside the warranty period, and the dealer repaired it again, for free.

[never cry wolf]

15. Check out consumer's reports

I never make a major purchase without checking them out. Last car I bought (Honda Civic, 2003) I researched at CS on-line. Most libraries also keep hard copies. http://www.consumerreports.org

I not only figured out what to buy, what price I should pay but also how to buy it. I bought it on line, essentially collecting bids from competing dealers in the area. I got the one closest to me to match the low price and the first time I saw the salesman was when I went in to sign the papers. I will NEVER car shop any other way again. CS walks you thru the process.

CS on-line will cost you a nominal $3.95 for a month subscription and for other nominal fees you can get detailed pricing reports on various models.

I HIGHLY recommend going this route, well worth the few buck to get the best car and the best deal!!

Good luck!!

[Pithlet]

16. Honda civic

Hands down. My first new car was a civic and lasted forever. 100,000 plus miles and no problems. It was still like new when I traded it for a new one. My husband has one now, that he bought on my advice for commuting, and loves it. Our Honda Oddysy min-van is great, too.

[CanuckAmok]

19. We've had five Toyotas. They are great.

I'll never own another brand as a relaible daily driver.

Dollar for dollar, repairs on Toyotas cost less than on Hondas. Although both brands are so maintainence free, it's hardly an issue. Toyota is more likely to use the same part throug several genrations and models, while Honda's subsequent generations of vehicles are basically resedigned from the ground-up. So, for example, finding a replacement windsheild wiper motor for a '93 Camry will be far, far easier in the cheaper, aftermarket world, than finding the same part for a '93 Civic, which is specific to that year.

Plus, even though Nader drives one, I've seen crunched Civics after accidents, and I would never, ever get in one, particularly the hatchbacks. I don't believe they have as much passenger protection as is necessary for highway-speed accidents. I'd have no qualms at all riding in a Toyota--I was in a Celica (very small) which was T-boned on the driver's side by a speeding full-size pickup, and I walked away.

[Pithlet]

23. Not been my experience.

Hondas usually rate very well, safety wise. The only serious accident I've ever been in was a civic hatchback (not my own), and I walked away with no injuries.

[CanuckAmok]

28. Yeah, I guess I should state that's just my opinion...

Of course, both brands are subject to the same NTSA tests, and are required to pass to the same degree.

Jut one Canuck's opinion, I guess...

[midnight armadillo]

30. If you want REAL safety info...

...you should check out the Insurance Institute of America's death and injury rates for diff. vehicles. It's much easier to make a car that passes the side, frontal, and offset impact tests than it is to make one that's good all around in the real world.

You can download the full report from them. 100 is average for each category. For 2000-2002 4-door cars, the safest midsize cars are: Saab 9-3 at 56, Volvo S60 at 64, Audi A4 Quattro at 65, and Toyota Avalon at 69.

Compact cars: Audi A4 at 73, Volvo S40 at 84, Subaru WRX at 85.

Interestingly, the 2000-2002 Saab 9-3 does only 'Acceptable' on 4 of 6 tests and 'Good' on 2, which is hardly the best rated in its category while beating the average injury rate by a factor of 2.

[cprise]

34. VW Golf tops its class in safety (NHTSA)

"Small cars. Volkswagen also took top honors in the battle of the bantamweights. The VW Golf TDI came in at No.1. Close behind was the Honda Civic EX and the Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI."

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Insurance/P63955.asp

[midnight armadillo]

21. Diesel over hybrid

I'd take a good diesel over a hybrid any day of the week.

Why? Two words: proven technology. A diesel engine will easily outlast the car it's installed in if maintained correctly and has been developed for the past 111 years. There are no batteries to eventually replace. There are plenty of trained mechanics to service your diesel, as opposed to the dealer-only hybrids. You can run the diesel on biodiesel provided some engine bits (like fuel lines) are compatible. Real-world mileage is comparable to the hybrids. Maintenance is somewhat different compared with gas engines (oil and timing belts, in particular).

Modern diesels are clean, quiet, and have tons of low-end torque which is great for around town driving. The VW engine is the only car on the market, and they're coming out with a 130 hp Passat TDI this fall. As soon as the US finishes the switch to low-sulfur fuels by 2006 or so the excellent European engines will be arriving here. The VW engine can also be easily modded for more HP.

Dodge had a prototype of a diesel/electric hybrid, the ESX3, which has 70 mpg: http://www.autointell.net/nao_companies/daimlerchrysler/dodge/dodge-esx3-01.htm

[CanuckAmok]

22. Plus, diesel motors, as long as they're not too high tech...

...can survive the effects of a EMP device.

http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2001/9/e-bomb/print.phtml

That has now replaced "jumbo-size cup holder" in my list of vehicular must-haves, bumping it to #2.

[stevedeshazer]

24. Still driving my '85 Honda Accord

162,000 and still runs like a Swiss watch, and gets 28 mpg.

My battered '92 Dodge Caravan has 253,000 and still going strong, but gets crappy gas mileage, about 18 mpg around town, 22 highway.

Buy something for the long haul, you won't regret it.

[coyote]

29. VW TDI

I know its already been mentioned. However, the VW 1.9 TDI is a bullet proof engine and extremely popular in Europe. With the new EU4 emissions, they actually run cleaner than gasoline engines. I have a 1.9 Audi TDI (same as the volkswagen engine) in Germany. Don't worry about power, the car moves (130 mph on the autobahn) and will put most cars to shame going up hill.

I won't use biodiesel in my car.....but if push comes to shove, I suppose you can go the supermarket and stock up on 30 gallons of Mazola corn oil and throw it in.

Gas mileage is a given 5 liters per 100 km...about 45 mpg.

[cprise]

33. You can't use straight veg. oil

Especially not in a recent European PD type TDI. The injectors on the PD engines are extremely high pressure, and you risk damaging them with a high-viscosity fuel like vegetable oil. Also veg. oil doesn't combust properly in the engine unless it's been pre-heated; it should be processed into biodiesel first.

Honda has a new diesel on sale now in Europe, the iCTDi, said to be one of the best engines available.

VW also has the Lupo 3L on sale in Europe: a small 4-seater that gets 95 MPG !

I couldn't agree with you more about hills... The TDI eats them like candy!

[coyote]

39. Oddly enough..........

Three Welsh motorists have already been caught and fined for using waste oil from restaurants selling Britain's favorite deep-fried dish, the Times newspaper reported Wednesday.

"I have halved my motoring costs since I started running my Subaru on cooking oil," the paper quoted one of those stopped as saying.

"The car runs just as well and even smells a lot better than diesel."

The drivers were fined 500 pounds ($780) and warned that persistent offenders may face up to seven years in jail.

http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=humannews&StoryID=1553167

[cprise]

47. And they should be fined

SVO doesn't burn fully in a diesel engine unless the oil has been pre-heated.

Also, if this cheapskate puts SVO into a late-model CDI or TDI diesel then they'll probably ruin their fuel injectors.

This is foolish.

[TheMightyFavog]

49. Now, If only VW would get this bad boy into production!

285 MPG

[Kazak]

36. Thanks everybody: done deal.

We ended up getting an Idigo Blue 2004 Toyota Corolla S, 5 speed, power windows, locks, mirrors, keyless, cruise, AM/FM/CD/Cassette. The hybrids just didn't have the room we needed, and it should be fairly economical, though not as much so as the Vdubs that some of you mentioned, but very much more within our price range. Cheers, and thanks for the help.

[CanuckAmok]

38. You'll be happy with your new "Toy."...

You should post some pics!!

[Kazak]

40. Thanks.

We don't actually take delivery for about 10 to 14 days, so it'll be a while before I can take any snapshots.

[Beaker]

41. too late for my advice then-

I was going to say that whatever you decided on, look for a good used car first. new cars are for suckers.

[Kazak]

42. Except where Toyotas are concerned...

Highest resale values (proportionally speaking) among the major car manufacturers.

[CanuckAmok]

44. That's true...

...although I've never been in a position to buy a new car, and I'm not sure if I would if I could. I try to buy used with less than 40,000 miles.

[Bertha Venation]

43. Toyota is a great car.

You can't miss if you buy a Toyota. I've had four of them and they all just keep going. Regular maintenance can keep a Toyota vital for 200k+ miles.

[LWolf]

45. 1. Toyota

My current toyota (truck, 4cyl, manual transmissin, no xtra cab, no xtra anything) is 10 years old and has carried me 225,000 problem-free miles. Still runs great.

My previous toyota truck, same as above, a '79, went 350,000 miles. Last 4 years were really hard; 2 with my oldest son at high school...2 with my youngest son, until he plowed it into the side of a hill and bent the frame. At that point, his uncle pulled the engine to use to run equipment at a boat-building yard. Four years later, it's still running.

2. Honda civic. Economical, reliable, good little car. That youngest son drives one now. I had to borrow it Saturday; at 110,000 miles, it is comfortable and does a dandy job.

[Jack_Dawson]

46. Toyota - Dependable and Practical

If you want a little more edge - Infiniti.

[KCDem]

48. I'm a Toyota fan

My parents always bought them, and now I know why. They're great cars with outstanding safety ratings. They get good mileage, too.

[geniph]

50. I have to put in my little plug for Subaru

I love my Forester - very roomy, very good on gas, and it handles much like the rally car its chassis is based on. It's VERY fun to drive. As one Car & Driver reviewer put it, "looks like a box, runs like a fox!" Also, Subaru tends to be an extremely reliable vehicle, and the Insurance Institute rates the Forester very highly in crash-safety tests. It has great brakes and the AWD gives you an extra measure of handling in poor conditions.

[trogdor]

51. I've been pricing used ones on ebay.

The engines must be bulletproof. There are lots of them for sale with upwards of 150,000 miles.

[geniph]

52. My brother had one of those little yellow mid-70s ones

that must have ended up with over 300,000 miles on it. When everyone else in his rural mountain hamlet ended up in the ditch in their big 4x4s, Greg just toodled on past in his ugly little yellow Subie wagon with its AWD. It was partly that car that inspired me to look at Subaru in the first place. Then I did over a year of research before buying mine. I test drove it almost exactly one year before I went back and bought it. I'm not an impulse buyer. ;-)