I remember... (Vietnam post and a long one).

[Raven]

(I am posting this here in the Lounge because it is more comfortable for me.) I have been hearing all of this talk about Vietnam being 30 years ago and old news that doesn't matter now. And I have been observing George W. having a remarkable lapse of memory about the specifics of that time in his life. It is my opinion that nobody who went through that time could possibly forget. Here are some of my memories...please add yours.

Thanksgiving 1969: Two months after getting married, Orders to Vietnam came. We were stationed at Fort Bragg. One sheet of paper giving time and place to show up for duty. I kept that sheet. I think Will has it now.

Christmas 1969: Farewell visits to Boston (my family) and Decatur AL (his family) and then to Washington DC. He was a Lieutenant in Intelligence but could no longer wear that insignia as he would have been an easy target. The Army told him to pick any other insignia of a brance of the Army that he wanted. We went looking for one at Ft. McNair. We had a long discussion about whether he should choose the Chaplain's insignia or that of a doctor. We decided that he should be an engineer!

January 1970: National Airport, where I put him on a civilian flight to CA to connect with his military flight to Nam. I got in the car after that and the radio was playing "Leaving on a Jet Plane".

January 1970 - January 1971: I was what they called a "Waiting Wife". I wrote everyday. Got letters from him about once a week and didn't hear from him at all during the Cambodian Invasion. The letter were always opened when I got them. Kept in touch with other "waiting wives" and had a few visits from guys who had seen him in Saigon. If I had to, I'm sure I could locate those people today. At some point during that year, I received a call from a man who identified himself as an Army Chaplain saying that my husband had been killed in action and that if I sent him $500 he would see to funeral arrangements. We had been forewarned about these types of scams but I fell apart anyway. After a few hysterical calls from me to the Army, they gave him permission to call me. No cell phones or e-mails in those days!

January 1971: I met his plane at Dulles. He arrived in fatigues with a dirty tan and with an antique French rifle that his Vietnam counterparts had given him as a goodbye present. People in the airport looked at him with contempt...I will never forget that scene.

1971-1972: He had been accepted to law school before Vietnam but had lost his place. I had to take his place at the end of the line and start all over again. He watched his friends who hadn't served graduate and get jobs while he was playing catch up. He had nightmares and flashbacks.

2004: He was in Manchester with Kerry and the Band of Brothers. He remembers every bit of his service to this country from enlisting out of college ROTC to our final trip to the PX on his last day of service. We bought a gazillion boxes of Pampers and he bought a small brass cannon (which I still have).

In my humble opinion, nobody, nobody, forgets the details of their service to this country, nobody. Whether it was actual combat duty or service in the National Guard. And nobody got out of their responsibilities once they were in unless they pulled strings or were winked at.

One Question: Where is George W. Bush's Band of Brothers?

[bamademo]

1. I'm looking for them here in Alabama

I have a friend in the guard here in Huntsville. He's been to Afghanistan once and they're going to send him back. I told him to ask around to see if anyone remembers *. He is and all the Guard he's talked to absolutely hate *.

[Raven]

2. Tell him not to hold his breath!

:-)

[Kamika]

3. That's a great story

You should write a book or something about those years.


Oh and those scammers should have been put to prison!

[DemoTex]

4. On Vietnam, I have a near photographic memory.

Nothing in my life is so deeply etched in my psyche as the events of 1965 through the fall of Saigon in 1975 (I was only in the military from 1968-72). I saw the film The Fog of War last night (an interview with Robert Strange McNamara) and wept at the scene where McNamara recalled the suicide of Norman Morrison on the steps of the Pentagon in 1965. I never thought I'd live to see a misty-eyed McNamara tell the story of Norman Morrison.

I sobbed, quietly, too during the short scene of the Vietnam Memorial. There is where 58,229 of our band of brothers and sisters can be found. I wonder if Bu$h knows one single name on that wall. I wonder if Bu$h really cares. Has he ever visited the wall? Has he ever allowed himself that descent into the maelstrom of emotion that attends a walk along that wall?

Don't go looking for George W. Bu$h's Band of Brothers. It doesn't exist.

Mac

[Raven]

6. There is a whole generation with those memories.

Whether they saw combat or not. I will bet that all of them remember their draft lottery number and most of us knew at least one friend who came back in a body bag. And, you know, I had friends who avoided the draft one wat or the other and I never begrudged them that. Everyone had to make their own, very personal decision. If Bush had said, "look, I went into the Guard to avoid going to Nam and I skipped out on some meetings", we probably couldn't lay a hand on him. But the lying and posturing as a Vet is just too much.

[VelmaD]

5. Oh Raven

There's not a thing I can say. Just this :hug:

[WilliamPitt]

7. Kick for my father and mother

[markses]

8. Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam

"After enough time passed and memory receded and settled, the name itself became a prayer, coded like all prayer to go past extremes of petition and gratitude: Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam, say again, until the word lost all its old loads of pain, pleasure, horror, guilt, nostalgia." (p. 56)

"I saw a picture of a North Vietnamese soldier sitting in the same spot on the Danang River where the press center had been, where we'd sat smoking and joking and going "Too much!" and "Far out!" and "Oh my God it gets so freaky out there!" He looked so unbelievably peaceful, I knew that somewhere that night and every night there'd be people sitting together over there talking about the bad old days of jubilee and that one of them would remember and say, Yes, never mind, there were some nice ones, too. And no moves left for me at all but to write down some few last words and make the dispersion, Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam, we've all been there." (p. 260)

- Michael Herr, Dispatches

[supernova]

9. Thank you for sharing your story, Raven

You did the best any of us could under the cirumstances. :hug:

I had a child's eye view of the war. I remember waiting for the evening paper to be delivered because they published the most recent lottery numbers. My brother's number was in that group. This was 1970. I don't remember what the number was, just that it was too high. I'm sure my brother remembers that number.

My brother-in-law was stationed in Thailand as an airplane mechanic for two years. My sister had a newborn to take care of. He was depressed and angry when he came home. They eventually drifted apart.

Yes, everybody has something to remember. No way you could feign amnesia.

[Raven]

10. So much human damage!

We'll be talking about the damage of the Iraq war for generations to come. But you make my point...nobody forgets that time in their life.

[sonias]

11. Raven thank you for sharing

And I thank you and Will both, for your service. You weren't just a waiting wife, you were his support and life line. I think your story about the scam army chaplain is the most inhumane thing one person could do to another. I hope those scammers go to hell.

I remember my brothers all lined up for service. I have five, and four of them have served in the military. Three during the Vietnam war. Those three are separated by 3 years in age. One brother actually went to Vietnam and I am so thankful that he came home. He wasn't the same person the Marines shipped out there and he doesn't talk about that period much. It was quite a nightmare to think about your brothers being in danger. Watching the nightly news was torture. There was always this fear in the pit of your stomach about where they were and how they were coping. I wrote to my brother each week. His letters back to me were very weird. I wasn't sure that was my brother writing back. I didn't recognize his voice in those letters.

My brother that was in Nam doesn't like to talk about that time, and I respect that. You are right about one thing though, I am so sure that in a heartbeat he could tell you the name of his brothers in his company, and in a heartbeat if anyone of them asked for help he would be there just like that. He has his photo albums which I have seen many times so there is a part of him that he has not buried completely. Those would be his band of brothers.

He is still active in the VFW in his town. He is so saddened by the Iraq war and the state of the world now. He tells his son, the army is not where he needs to end up. Study hard, stay in school and stay out of wars that the rich start and then never serve in.

I always think about that time when I hear "Fortunate Son"

Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Yeah, the red, white, and blue
When the band plays 'Hail To The Chief'
Yeah, they'll point the cannon at you

It ain't me, it ain't me
I'm no millionaire's son
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Well, they help themselves, yeah
When the taxman comes to the door
House looks a like a rummage sale

It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no


Love and peace to you Raven.

Sonia

[Raven]

12. Thanks. Your brought back yet another memory.

The Washington Post had a little box in the bottom right corner of the front page everyday. It reported how many copters were shot down each day. My guy was flying in those things and after a while I just couldn't look at that paper anymore.

[elperromagico]

13. I know my father remembers,

but he won't talk about it. Only occasional snippets of information come out, and they rarely have anything to do with combat experiences. Judging by what little he has talked about regarding combat... I can't say I blame him for not wanting to talk about it.

[dbt]

14. Thank you Raven!

Every few months, I am compelled to go to the Arkansas Viet Nam Memorial and look at the names. Sometimes, when it's very quiet, I begin to hear their voices.

The statue at the Memorial (done by John Deering) is of a soldier in combat gear with an expression that haunts me. You cannot stand anywhere around that statue where the soldier's gaze will actually focus on you; he always looks right through you.

There can never be enough thanks to our Viet Nam Veterans. They all walked through hell. We will never be able to make it up to them.

:cry:
dbt
(Lottery #335, 1970)

[enough]

15. Reality

Thanks to you Raven and all the other DU vets and vet relatives who are keeping us in touch with the reality of war as you have lived it.

I do not understand why George Bush* is permitted to impose his inane and obscene delusions upon our country. The only cure for our nation and our souls is the constant telling of truth.

[Gildor Inglorion]

16. I Was in Vietnam Dec 66 - Dec 67

And I remember every detail vividly. Thank you for sharing your story, Raven.

[Skittles]

17. I agree that you don't forget, Raven

I was very young but I remember the lotteries and the body counts. And yes, during my four year enlistment in the military (starting the year the Viet Name war ended) if you give me a date I will tell you exactly where I was and what my duties were. And I can remember some of the people I served with. People I know who were in the Guard can do the same.