I've put the brakes on the puppy purchase.

[Raven]

I saw an ad in the Boston Globe for Labradoodles, a breed that I have been interested in. I called and the guy said, "oh yes we have four puppies, come anytime". I was going to go down there on Sunday and I knew, knowing me, that I would come back with a puppy. Today I started thinking about this, did some research on the internet, and decided that I knew next to nothing about the people selling these puppies. I called around and finally learned that these people do not breed their own dogs but go to PA and purchase puppies...all different breeds. Bring them back to MA and sell them with no health checks or anything.

I did find a reputable breeder in MA and she spent 1/2 hour on the phone with me, telling me about the dogs that she breeds and asking me alot of questions about MY lifestyle and experience with dogs. I think I have found the right breeder and I put myself on her waiting list. There is no guarantee that I will actually get a Doodle puppy before Fall, but I feel more confident that I will get a good puppy. This gal said that she had seven people on the waiting list for the late spring litter but that usually 50% will drop off. Maybe I'll get lucky and have my pup this summer. I think I made the right decision on this...it's better to wait and be sure. We'll see. :-)

[aldian159]

1. Good story

but it will probably be moved.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. certainly better than another intern thread. eom

[Raven]

2. OOOPS! Moderators, please move this to the lounge!

I thought I was there when I posted this! Sorry!

[mrgorth]

4. WHat the fuck is a labradoodle

and why would you want one? Labs are great, why screw them up?

[Raven]

6. The mix is healthier, lives longer, less hip problems.

It combines the great temperment of the lab with the intelligence of the standard poodle. I wanted a mixed breed. My 14 year old Gypsy is a lab/collie mix and is a wonderful dog. She was a rescue.

[mrgorth]

7. Ugh

I hear standard poodles are fine dogs but I just couldn't stand that coat.

[Mairead]

5. An even better place to get a loving pup is the pound.

Save the poor creature from the gas chamber. Won't be a purebred, but the love is the same.

[bahrbearian]

8. Yes Yes Yes and they have a large assortment of Mixed Breeds.

[Lisaben2619]

9. This amounts to animal abuse

Every year, it's a different "mixed breed" Labradoodles, Cockapoos,there's even a new mix of chihuahua and mastiff. These people aren't reputable breeders; the animals they "develop" get skin, coat, and digestive problems so they move on to the next experiment. Either you want a dog or you don't. It's a lifelong commitment not a fad. Go to the shelter if you want a mixed breed.

[Raven]

10. Lisaben, take a deep breath...

you have 8 posts here and you are already accusing someone (me) of animal abuse? I think not. This mixed breed was created in Australia by a man who was trying to find the right dog for a blind woman who needed a campanion but was allergic to most dogs...is there something wrong with that??? I wish I could say welcome to DU, but I can't.

[Lisaben2619]

15. I'm accusing these "breeders" of animal abuse not naive buyers

As an employee of a pet supply store, I see these dogs all the time. Their owners come in to have us help them with all the health problems these breeds develop. More often than not, by the time we see them, the family is sick of the dog anyway and the newness has worn off so we see an unhealthy dog with skin and coat allergies compounded by their loneliness and lack of training.
It's interesting and telling that you give "facts" distributed by Labradoodle breeders in order to defend cross-breeding and over-breeding while millions of unwanted mixed breed dogs are euthanized. Many of our customers have paid $900+ for these designer dogs.
Sorry, but some agencies are already using standard poodles for guide and service dogs because of they shed less than many other breeds. Mixing a poodle with a Labrador makes the dog shed more-DUH!!-not less so someone with an allergy would be worse off with a labradoodle than with a poodle.
And, thanks, but I take a deep breath every single time that I have to be nice to these people who have to get the "latest" dog of the day for because their kids can only have "toys" with popular labels.

[Raven]

22. Duh?

I think I know that a standard poodle would shed less...I don't want a standard poddle...I don't want a pure breed. I want a mixed breed with certain characteristics. Is that some sort of a crime? I don't understand what is wrong with cross breeding, as a matter of fact, I think that pure breeding and in-breeding is the real problem. I can't take responsibility for the folks who come into your pet store looking for medical advice...I go to my Vet for that. Finally, while I think it would be wonderful to rescue a dog from the pound, I am not going to do that if it's not right for me no matter how politically correct it might be. I am trying to make a reasoned decision based on what would be right for me and good for the dog. I'm just not going to be pushed around by someone who doesn't know me very well and who obviously has a thing about rich people and designer dogs. I am going to do whatever I have to do to insure that any dog who enters my home will live and very long and happy life.

[Susang]

35. Angry much?

Seems like you must have to take a lot of deep breaths in your line of work.

[Lisaben2619]

41. Not nearly as many as

the workers (usually volunteers) who have the sad task of putting down the unadoptable unwanted dogs (at the risk of starting a "Kill or No Kill shelter" debate).

Thankfully we do not, nor do most of local competitors, sell any kind of pets.

[Susang]

47. Still, it must be hard

To work somewhere where you feel so much contempt for the people you have to see daily.

[retread]

37. If the pet store where you are employed sells pure-bred dogs

you should educate yourself on puppy mills before climbing on that high horse.

[Lisaben2619]

42. I thought I clearly wrote "pet supply store"

if not, I apologize. We do not sell any animals, other than crickets. The main income is in the boarding and grooming parts of the store. We discontinued fish several years ago as well.
My 2 personal dogs are rescues and I am the foster parent of one purebred lab who is in training as a service dog.

[Taeger]

20. Nature makes the BEST mix-breeds

I wouldn't buy a dog PERIOD!!!!

People who breed dogs are most often out for financial gain.

The fact is that even pure-bred animals are the result are mixed breeding. The fact is that ALL pure bred animals are inherently in-bred. Once the characteristics are "chosen" the registry is closed. Every animal in that breed must be DIRECTLY descended 100% from the original group to be "pure bred".

Random mixes are great because the best judges of a "good dog" does the selection. That is, the dogs THEMSELVES select.

Some great places to find "random-bred" animals:

1) An animal shelter like the humane society.
2) Non-breed specific rescue groups.
3) Petsmart on Saturdays. The rescue groups come in with their dogs.
4) The side of the road (strays) ;-)

Pure-bred animals are appropriate when the animal has a JOB to do. That is, they actually work for a living like herding sheep or sniffing for drugs. Even then, mixed breeds can do just as well. Many animal training organizations go straight to the shelter to find their dogs. They simply have screening tests (like ball obsession) to find appropriate candidates.

Deep down, the obsession with a pure-bred animals stems from our past societies obsession for pure-bred people. It's the belief that your breeding was the single biggest characteristic in determining what your value is. Basically, it's racism. And it's also wrong when you apply it to dogs.

Thats why I refer to the AKC as the "DOG NAZIS".

[camero]

23. I agree they are

My puppy here is supposedly a purebred but with her demeanor and other people telling me that she may have some timberwolf in her I suspect they may be right.

I also have a lab-vizla mix who is probably one of the smartest of the dogs I have ever had. She hates freepers. :)

[Lisaben2619]

24. Timberwolf?

Does she really? Do you have to do any special training? It seems there's a part wolf dog in our puppy class and we're working with more of the old-school "alpha" technics since he seems a little too agressive with the other dogs (but is great so far with people.) Have you noticed this?

[camero]

25. She's only aggressive when she is protecting something

Most of the time it's me. Not around people though. I've only seen her get angry around my other dog and that's only when she was provoked. She was hard to train from being stubborn (It's a Husky trait) but she adapted very well. New dogs she is very good with.

I haven't checked to see if she actually did have any timberwolf in her but I have my suspicions sometimes.

[Lisaben2619]

44. I think you probably have to be pretty stubborn

to want to pull sleds,etc. for miles and miles!

[camero]

46. That's true

I was thinking it was something she got from hangin around me...lol :)

Til I read up on the breed. Alot of dogs do take some of their owner's personality.

[RebelOne]

11. Yes, yes, I agree.

Please adopt a pound puppy.

[Raven]

13. Easier said than done!

I've looked. All these places seem to have these days is Rots...older and male. I know my limitations and I know I can't handle that. I need a puppy that I can raise as I have done with all my other dogs and one with a gentle temperment. Maybe I'm judging Rots unfairly, but I don't think it's the right match for me. Believe me, I've been looking. My 14 year old dog was a rescue and I'd love to do that again but I've had no luck around here so far.

[geniph]

17. Raven, check petfinder

and keep checking. Eventually, there'll be one in a local shelter that meets your needs. Just don't go see them in person until you see the right dog, or you'll come home with the wrong dog - and that doesn't work for either the family or the dog. :-(

http://www.petfinder.com

[geniph]

18. By the way, Poodle Rescue of New England

has a ton of poodles that need homes. Search on petfinder for all dogs in Boston, you'll see what I mean.

[geniph]

19. O my word, it's a good thing I'm not in Boston!

I'd end up taking this one home! He's a cross between a Beagle and a Black & Tan Coonhound and he's adorable!

http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=2520227&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=402d25e11cf3e57e-app2&display=&preview=0&row=25&tmpl=

or look at these terrier-lab cross puppies:

http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=2539491&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=402d25e11cf3e57e-app2&display=&preview=0&row=25&tmpl=

and this one definitely would come home with me - a young beagle-basset cross:

http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=2496898&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=402d25e11cf3e57e-app2&display=&preview=0&row=75&tmpl=

[Mairead]

21. Raven, your use of the term 'rescue' triggered a thought

Have you checked the rescue orgs on the web? A lot of breeds have them, and they seem to have quite a few animals in need of human adopters :( :( :(

http://www.spdrdogs.org/ has a long list of breeds, with contact humans, and

http://www.petfinder.org/search.html seems to be a useful search engine. Just as a test I looked for rescue groups near me that are trying to place a small dog who's okay with kids, and got back 450 hits(!) including many puppies.

(edit: OOOPS! I should have read all the responses - evidently petfinder is very well known! :) :) :))

[LuLu550]

12. A good breeder will interview you like you were applying for a job

They will not let their puppies go to just anyone. I drove from Albany NY to Buffalo to buy a Mini Schnauzer (Lexi, my love :loveya:) and the breeder wouldn't even let us SEE her until we sat and heard about his breeding program, grilled us about what kind of house and yard we had and got a feel for what kind of home he would be sending her to.

[Raven]

14. I just went through the same interview and

I loved it! Somehow you just know when you talk to these folks where their hearts are. Better for me!

[veganwitch]

16. very very true

my ex's mom bred cockers for show and she was very particular about who would get the puppies. she even took a few back when she was not satisfied with their treatment. and she would only breed a litter every few years.

and i second the motion for pound dogs. most are perfectly healthy just disowned by their people. the most beautiful dogs i ever saw was two brothers that were lab/wolfhound. this is a gruesome metaphor but they looked like the skins of a lab put on the body of of a wolfhound. beautiful long legs, strong square face. i would have loved to see them run full gait. im glad i saw them at a no-kill shelter because they were too beautiful to put down. hopefully they were adopted together. i would have taken them, but i was still in college.

[arissa]

26. Please don't ever buy an animal

Tens of millions of dogs and cats are homeless right now. These animals are just as deserving of love and a good home as any dog you'll find at a breeder.

Go to your local Humane Society or Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals shelter. Adopt a dog or puppy, you can find purebreeds at the shelters.

Breeding animals is cruel, no matter how "loving" and "professional" the breeder is, when you consider how many dogs and cats are dieing because they have no home. If you truly love animals, you won't even consider buying one. They are not property to be overbred and sold, they are living, breathing, thinking, feeling, loving souls.

Please adopt, never buy. Please read the link below:
http://www.peta.org/feat/grrrspr00/humane.html

[Robb]

27. Nonsense.

Responsible breeders are why there are dogs in the world without health problems.

Irresponsible breeders are why you don't like people who buy dogs. "Purebred" means nothing unless the breeder has been working for generations of pups, simple things like not breeding dogs that have hereditary problems they could pass on -- waiting until the third or fourth year, when most such problems manifest themselves. Breeders who are in it for the money breed as soon as they can to get their investment back, ignoring this.

Adoption is just fine, in fact it's great -- but without responsible breeding all dogs would have hip dysplasia.

Focus your wide swath of ire a bit, please.

[arissa]

28. You're completely missing the point

The cruelty isn't in whether or not the dog is well-bred to avoid health problems, the cruelty is in the fact that the dog is bred, period.

There are tens of millions of homeless dogs and cats in America! There is no excuse to continue to breed more until we can take care of those. For every dog you buy, even from a "responsible" breeder, you condemn another dog to death that could have been adopted by you.

[Robb]

32. And you are missing the big picture

90% of homeless dogs and cats were made homeless because the owners didn't know what they were getting into. Because irresponsible breeders didn't tell them.

For every dog you buy from a responsible breeder, you are bolstering the market for knowledgeable, responsible animal breeding.

There are tens of millions of homeless dogs and cats in America. Stopping all breeding today, right now would mean that in 10 years, the only new puppies and kitties would be teeming with hereditary diseases.

You can't possibly want that.

[arissa]

33. And you called my post nonsense?

You're seriously suggesting that we should continue to contribute to the over-population of domestic dogs and cats because you believe that failing to do so will result in hereditary diseases? THAT is nonsense!

First, breeding is not going to stop right here and right now, so your hypothetical situation is a classic strawman argument. The reality is that as the demand drops so will the breeding, slowly, over time.

Second, the reality is that there is a massive problem right now with an over-population of dogs and cats that needs to be dealt with. Ignoring it for "responsible" breeders doesn't change that reality, and it doesn't change the fact that for every dog/cat you buy, no matter WHAT the source, that is one less dog/cat that is being adopted, and you're personally condemning to either a) death, or b) imprisonment.

Go to a HSUS or SPCA shelter, Robb, and look at the animals there, in the eyes, and then tell me they deserve to be imprisoned or killed.

[geniph]

38. Responsible breeders do not contribute to pet overpopulation

I'm sorry, but you're lumping responsible breeders together with puppy and kitten mills and backyard breeders, and they are NOT the same. A responsible breeder usually has homes for their offspring long before the breeding actually takes place. Most produce only a couple litters a year, and no responsible breeder sells an animal with breeding rights to anything but another known, responsible breeder. A responsible breeder will always provide a home for any animals of their breeding.

I know many, many Maine Coon cat breeders. Most early-neuter - their kittens go to pet homes already neutered. How is that contributing to pet overpopulation? You may say those are "taking" a home from a pound kitty, but how do you know that people who adopt a purebred after deciding that breed's characteristics are what they want don't ALSO adopt homeless pets?

The pets in shelters are there because of irresponsible people, both breeders and pet owners. Education is the answer, not banning purebreds. I cannot agree with generalizations that condemn all breeders.

I understand where your passion and advocacy comes from, but make sure you're aiming it at the right targets. The families that get a puppy or kitten and don't get it neutered are the people we need to be reaching. The backyard breeders and puppy/kitten mills need to be driven out of existence, but without destroying the cat and dog fancies.

[arissa]

39. *All* breeding contributes to overpopulation

Breeding, by its very definition, means bringing more and more dogs and cats into the world. That contributes to over-population, by its very definition.

Responsible or not, the facts are the facts. If you buy your dogs/cats, even from a responsible breeder, that means that you're not adopting those pets, and thus condemning the would-be adoptees to imprisonment and/or death.

There is no getting around this, breeding, by its very definition, makes over-population worse. Sorry.

[Pithlet]

40. While any breeder does, by sheer numbers

add to the population, you're ignoring where the problem really is. There is a difference between a responsible breeder and a breeder who's only in it for a buck. There is a difference between a responsible breeder and a puppy or kitten mill. The mills, irresponsible breeders, and people who don't spay/neuter their pets are the ones who are contributing to the problem FAR more than responsible breeders. If those three other components were eradicated, or greatly reduced, we would have no pet overpopulation problem. The responsible breeders aren't the problem, and aren't why overpopulation is at a crisis.

Everyone who wants a pet should consider adopting one from a shelter. There is no doubt about that. I don't think that is what is at issue, here.

[arissa]

43. I understand what you're saying

but I object to the statement that I'm ignoring the real problem. I know what the real problem is, it's the "consumer." Which is why I'm here encouraging Raven to adopt, not buy.

The plain and unavoidable fact is that if you choose not to adopt, no matter how "responsible" the breeder is, you're choosing to condemn the dog you would have adopted to imprisonment and/or death - period.

The reality is simply that until the situation is under control, no one should buy a dog or cat, no matter from what source. I'm not ignoring the difference between puppy mills and "responsible" breeders, I'm simply pointing out the very real and undeniable fact that buying a dog/cat is contributes to over-population and condemns another life to imprisonment and/or death. That is reality, like it or not. :shrug:

[Pithlet]

45. I think

that everyone should make every effort to make sure that the pet they get is the right one for them. That, to me, is the option everyone should take when considering a pet. While you and I would think that should be a shelter animal every single time (I happen to agree with you that shelter is the best option), that may not always be the case. If someone has considered a shelter animal, but feels they've found the best match for them from a responsible breeder, than I don't think they've condemned any pet. They've still given a pet a home, and because they chose to make that decision seriously and responsibly, they will not be contributing to the problem by returning a pet they should never have acquired. Since they used a reputable breeder, they are also far more likely to have their pet spayed or neutered, thus preventing more overpopulation. I don't think they deserve to be painted with the same brush that someone who, on impulse, buys from a pet store, or because it's the latest craze from a Disney cartoon, or as a pet for an irresponsible child, only to dump it at the pound or on the side of the road because they didn't consider the responsibilities that come with getting a dog.

I really hear what you're saying. I just think that you're equating things that to me aren't the same. I think the first consideration should be a shelter animal, and too many people don't even give that a thought. To me, that is sad.

[sbj405]

29. Raven, Have you considered fostering?

I haven't read all the threads. But here's my experience.

Having adopted 2 dogs - one after fostering and one straight from the shelter. I'd recommend the first - or at least adopting from an organization that has had the dog in a home. This gives you a better idea of the dogs temperment. These organizations are truly committed to making sure the dog goes to a "forever home", so they should be very upfront about the dog.

[SoCalDem]

30. Raven.. please don't pay for a puppy

Every shelter in the world has lots of simply wonderful dogs & puppies.. and some are even papered purebreds..

Just start visiting them, and the perfect puppy/dog will literally reach out to you, lock eyes, and claim YOU..

The life you save will by your lifelong friend :)

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[Bunny]

34. Raven, first off.

Pay for a puppy if you want to. If you are looking for certain characteristics, there is no shame in that. Please get the dog you want, not what everyone else thinks you should want.

Second, be wary of purebred dogs coming from PA. Unfortunately, my state has a terrible reputation for puppy mills, mainly in the Amish country in S. Central Pa. Stay well away from these "breeders". The Amish view their breeding dogs as livestock and treat them that way. There are plenty of good breeders in PA, but if you find a dog that's coming from here, get complete info on the breeder before you buy.

And, I've looked into Labradoodles, and they seem like a great animal! Good luck!

[Susang]

36. Hi Raven

I used to seriously dislike dogs that came from breeders, that was, until I actually came to know some real live breeders. Whatever people here may think about purebred vs mixed breeds, there really are some breeders out there who love animals and care deeply about the pets they breed and raise. If you find one that you think is like that, then by all means, get a puppy from that breeder if it makes you happy.

Yes, there are many unwanted dogs out there and wouldn't it be great if everyone looking for a dog went out and adopted a mutt/shelter dog/older dog/rescued dog/etc., but that decision may not be the right decision for everyone. I think you should do what is right for you, not what everyone on DU thinks is right for you. After all, you are the one who's going to be getting up at 3AM to let the puppy out to pee, you better love it! :-)