downloading music and piracy.. -- a bit of rant

[nini]

I've seen a couple posts lately about what downloading software to use for free stuff, is it moral to download a title you had previously bought etc....

Many people see no problem at all downloading all kinds of stuff without paying. From my personal experience let me tell you what happens if you do that.

I've been with a software company for 13 years. We have been THE leader in children's software that entire time. When I first started revenues were huge and we were doing well. We had a dev team of about 150 people - this does not count non dev groups such as marketing, sales etc.. as these groups were absorbed as we were bought and sold a couple times.

Well. over time when CD copies came into play, the internet, file shareing etcc.. our profits have plummeted. Over the last few years we have had layoffs, re-orgs etc.. all in an effort to try and stay afloat. We are now down to a team of 40 which includes programmers, artists etc.. 40 left from 150 because we cannot support the payroll anymore because our revenue is down because of CD copying, people figuring out how to get around copy protection and file sharing.

So.... over 100 talented people have lost their jobs the last 3 years from this company alone. Excellent products for kids have been kept from hitting the market because we are barely able to hang on with reduced revenues (yes part of it is the crappy economy but this started before that). You're not hurting just the corporation you're hurting the worker the most. If you can afford to buy that music CD or software - do it. People's jobs - including mine - depend on it. Thanks

end of rant :-)

[anti_shrub]

1. And it was proven that CD copying damaged the company?

It wasn't the bad economy, cuts in school budgets, competing products, etc? Its all piracy's fault?

I'm not saying it doesn't hurt companies, but not even RIAA can back up their claim that piracy is killing their business.

[nini]

2. I believe I mentioned all of those things..

and they all play a part.

whether you copy a CD or download from a file sharing service you are not putting money into the system that pays the people that make these products.

all of these things add up and they're all wrong.

[anti_shrub]

3. Sorry

but it just sounds like how RIAA blames 13 year olds on Kazaa for slumping sales when the real problem is the lack of quality albums.

As someone not completely unfamiliar with the piracy underworld I can say that educational software is pretty next to nil on the list of stuff that gets traded.

[toddzilla]

4. agreed..

i don't stay up late at night looking for the latest version of "barney goes to europe" for xp.


point the finger somewhere else.

[nini]

6. well whatever you look for - you should be buying

.

[mvd]

9. The RIAA has been crooked for a while now

So I can see why they are getting payback. Now I don't have a lack of sympathy for all companies, but the RIAA gets none from me. That said, I stopped illegal downloads, too, because of the artists.. but when you think of it, most big name artists can afford to keep making music, and little known artists can get exposure. Hopefully, the RIAA will either allow lower download prices or accept the idea of an internet tax. 99 cents per song might not seem much, but it is if you are a music fan.

[nini]

5. Morally, I don't see a difference between copying CDs and

downloading songs off the net.

Whether or not the albums are just crap is the opinion of the user. Seems like there are alot of popular artists and music still these days.

Seriously.. to believe it doesn't affect the bottom line is an excuse for those who like the free stuff. I did this myself a while back but stopped when I realized what I was really doing. Some people will refuse to believe their few songs and/or movies is not big deal. But multiple it by all the users out there and it adds up real quick.


And who said it was educational software? :-)

[anti_shrub]

7. Don't get me wrong

I know piracy is bad and can hurt people, but I don't think there's a huge market for children's/educational software in pirate circles.

I'd wager the most pirated program out there is Photoshop, since Adobe knows they can charge anything they want since they are the industry standard. It's re-god-damn-diculous what they charge for their entire product line.

The main impetus for piracy of any genre is either the asking price is excessive, or the person pirating has reason to believe what he's downloading isn't worth buying.

Perhaps if there weren't such strict standards for returning CDs/software then more people would buy instead of risking being stuck with a crap program or CD. Of course that would promote more copying and the circle of life would continue.

[CanuckAmok]

8. I'm torn on the issue, but...

I notice none of the big CD stores have 'listening stations' anymore, except ones which only give you a limited selection of corporately-chosen tracks to listen to.

I feel that if someone wants me to pay $20+ for 40 minutes worht of music, there should be an opportunity for me to listen to it first, or return it if I don't like it. $20 is alot to piss away on a CD which doesn't live up to one track which warrants airplay.

I prefer to shop at a good indie store which will allow me to listen first to what I intend to buy. Sadly the box-stores are shutting all but the most stable shops down.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. Now I ONLY buy CDs at used-CD stores

And they have listening booths too. Schweeet!

The RIAA can kiss my fat hairy rear end. They lost me as a customer BECAUSE of their terminally assholic behavior. OK, I admit the fact 99% of recent music is crap helped a bit.

Edit: for the exact same reason, I don't have a DVD player. If the MPAA jettisons that region-code abomination, I may reconsider.

[BigMcLargehuge]

22. buy a region free player

they can be had for about 20 bucks more than regular DVD players in retail stores on the web.

[Kellanved]

24. yep

And many players can be made region free without much trouble (usually an IR port to simulate a service Remote Control).
Having a TV capable of synchronizing at 50Hz and 60Hz is necessary tough.
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdhacks.php

[nini]

29. I agree.. I have bought CDs before and regretted it

I too believe you should be able to sample the product first.

[nini]

30. I agree on the big titles being hurt the most.

And I also agree that many titles are priced way way too high. With technology the way it is now they shouldn't be charging that much any more.

We have a 30 day return policy here which helps with our customers.


You'd be surprised at how many parents get a product and Jr. likes it so they make copies for neighbors and friends so their kids can use it too (which also gets into the computer babysitting your kids - but that's a whole other story!) I know cost per CD copied lost doesn't come close to a Photoshop etc.. but it does add up.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. Cry me a river

I worked my ass off and spent most of my disposable income from 1996 until 1999 to re-train as a computer programmer. (I was a medical tech before that.) My actual period of employment was about two years when the bubble burst, and KaZaA and Napster had nothing to do with it. My livelihood -- along with those of hundreds of thousands of other programmers -- went to India, Eastern Europe, and China.

Since 1986, I've been in two fields that sucked me dry, then tanked and left me with no effective means of employment. I never had the moral satisfaction of blaming my ill fortune on file sharing. In fact, I usually got the "Personal Responsibility" lecture when I griped at all.

If you can entrepreneurially homestead a new moral product -- "thou shalt not download" -- then why can't I? But "thou shalt not offshore" is considered to be Protectionism, and that's oh-so-bad. If you look closely, all morality espoused by business is for the increased profit of business.

That's not morality. That's not "right-and-wrong". That's simply buying off the lawmakers and re-writing the catechism. The RIAA has become a moral sales organization using cops and lawyers as its field agents. "Sales Resistance" has been redefined as "justifying lawbreaking". Purchase of The Product is mandatory.

When companies are fined heavily for moving work overseas, I may reconsider the moral product the RIAA is trying to sell me.

--bkl

[uberotto]

11. Don't blame the customer...

for the companies problems. The market changed, the company didn't keep up, people lost their jobs.

I don't say this to be mean, I say this as someone, like you, have made my living in the software industry for the last 12 years. I've watched the market change, I've followed those changes. From Graphics programming, to telecommunications, to networked systems to embedded programmer working for government contractor. Four years ago, the company that I'm currently working for offered to pay for me to get MCSE certified. I turned the offer down, and instead spent my time learning more and more about Linux. Now I spend a lot of my time helping my company incorporate Linux into some of their ongoing projects. It seems that these days more customers are asking for Linux than Microsoft CE. I'm currently working on getting experience writing games for small screen devices such as PDA's and Cell Phones. I believe this is where the market is heading and I want to be ready for when my current job slows down.

People expect more for less, but I've seen way too many software companies try to keep putting out the same old software over and over, only making it a little prettier but not making it any more useful. Microsoft is probably the best example, but they are in a unique position of being a Monopoly. Most of these companies are either dead or struggling to stay alive for another year. My guess is that this is what really happened to your company, because in the past ten years I've watched several companies become successful by offering more for less.

I'm sorry you are having difficulties at your job, but maybe it's time to think about moving on. And the first step in moving on, is to understand what is happining in the market. I would also recommend you don't take too long, because every day more and more high tech jobs disappear to other countries, and making a living in the high tech industry is getting more and more difficult.

[tarheel]

19. I also have quit

download and file sharing. My take is its more of a not wanting to risk prosecution though.

But I do have to agree with uberotto. They said, "The market changed, the company didn't keep up, people lost their jobs."

I think the RIAA missed a golden opportunity a couple of years ago to reshape their entire industry and give the consumers what they wanted.

When file sharing started to boom, they could have jumped on the band wagon and offered a product that was user oriented and reasonably priced but they chose to try and bleed consumers.

What I mean is they can effectively eliminate about 30-40 of their overhead costs by simply placing their product on servers and making it available to the buyer. They no longer have to purchase and burn CDs, package that product, pay to distribute it to the record stores, or pay a cut to the record stores.

And even with all of this, they still want to charge me around $15.00 ( based on 15 songs per CD @.99 per song) per CD and they want to control what songs are on that CD rather than let me pick and choose what song I wish to record ? This way they foist off bands that have only 4-5 appealing songs across 3-4 CDs at this price and I end up paying up to $60.00 for 5 songs that are worth my money.

This is what the RIAA has historically done and the public is sick of it. I do have sympathy for the artists and industry workers and support them fully, but I refuse to be a part of the music corporations bleeding the public for ever climbing profits, which I am sure very little of is passed on to the workers or artists.

[Az]

12. Download musis videos and you may get this

http://www.hellonetwork.com/demo/toysclub/video.asp?speed=hook300

Its just not worth the risk.

[SOteric]

13. *Shudder*

[ET Awful]

14. That may be the most disturbing thing I've seen all . . . . well. . .

day :).

I saw a picture of Anne Coulter yesterday, so this is only the top disturbing thing for this day so far :).

[Drifter]

15. Jesus ... that was disturbing.

You just ruined my whole freakin day ... LOL

Cheers
Drifter

[Kellanved]

17. argh

Why didn't you link something harmless? A virus or something?

Great, now I have to spend the day with a twitching eyelid.

[kmla]

18. Hey, Az....

That's just wrong.

On many levels.

Now my stomach hurts.

:hurts:

[PVnRT]

21. Jesus fucking Christ

my eyes...must pluck them out...

[Kamika]

23. WOW

That's the worst video I have EVER seen in my life.

That's a perfect example right there.

I dare to say that childrens programs are about as pirated as David Hasselhoff songs.


Holy crap.. that was a cheap video..

Altough The scenes where he stands on a boat in Alaska or something are pretty nice

[Burma Jones]

25. That looked like very cheap Eurotrash

As Norm MacDonald said, The Germans LOVE David Hasselhoff

I am now going to savor my Gum Disease.

[Barad Simith]

26. have you no shame? (nt)

[Kamika]

20. I'm gonna be brutally honest here

Childrens software = sucks

I can't see one reason to buy a cd where your child is supposed to direct a crudely animated mouse to letters in the right order or something like that.

It JUST aint fun.

Whatever success the childrens software biz had at first was because it was something new.

And another thing.

Kids these days are EXTREMELY more "mature" then just 10 years ago. Today they play "Tony Hawk underground" instead of "Blimpo the baloon in mathematics land".

My friends' five year kid brother has like four of these games and he played them maybe once and that was it. Now McDonalds include them in Happy Meals.

I mean heck my 7 year old cousin plays a wrestling game.

I can't for the love of me imagine that childrens games are "warezed" or spread on p2p programs..

Now please disregard this post if by childrens programs you meant something totally different.


It is the programs fault not some ppl copying programs, make abit more mature stuff, real adventure games etc.

I promise you, software houses like Electronic Arts, Lucas Arts, Sierra etc their games are MUCH more pirated etc then childrens software and they make profit. And it's MOSTLY kids buying their stuff.

I'm seriously wondering if childrens software was ever pirated.

[nini]

28. Well I guess the company setting up an anti piracy unit was for nothing

Obviously the powers that be here felt it was big enough of a problem to invest in Sony SecureRom and other methods to cut back on the piracy.

Funny you mention Sierra...

On edit: While I agree some kid's software is pure crap most of ours is very good. We've had a couple bombs as all companies but on the whole we are the top ranked and awarded software in the industry. The kid's testing we do during development plays a big part here. We do take the time to get feedback from kids and have adapted the age range on things when appropriate.

[Kamika]

32. So spill it out

What company :D

And what about Sierra? I loved old sierra when Ken Williams still owned it.. I love all the quest series etc

[nini]

27. I obviously wasn't clear on what I was saying..

and shouldn't have combined the file sharing and CD copying in the same message. Though in my opinion they serve the same purpose which is to avoid paying for a product.

I also included the crappy economy as part of the problem.

My point is doing the CD copying and/or napster type stuff does have an effect on companie's bottom line and it aint gonna be the CEO's who will hurt first.

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[toddzilla]

33. well, i'd have to take exception to this then...

If your software is so easily duplicated then you have nobody to blame but yourself. I seriously doubt that any of the warez groups are working overnight to crack the copy protection on your childrens software. there's nothing wrong with copy protection as long as it doesn't get in the way. I'll be honest, i play computer games, but i rarely buy them unless they hold my interest for more than a few days. then i'll look for them on ebay or wherever because they are horribly overpriced in my opinion. There's no way around piracy except a high quality product. i've bought games before that were good enough that i knew i'd be playing them for quite some time. most of the games i download, i install, play for a while, then they get dumped in the trash bin because they are crap.

[Edge]

34. Uh...sorry, but no.

I am not going to pay $17 for a CD just for one song. I'll be damned to fork out that kind of money for music. I'm especially not going to fork out a lot of money for software when I can get it for free.

I'm sorry about what happened to the people in your company, but it's not going to change my mind. If it's out there, and it's free, then it's mine for the taking.