Who was the best Batman?

[racaulk]

[MrCoffee]

1. Adam West by a country mile.

He really captured the pathos of the Caped Crusader. Isn't that right, little buddy?

[redqueen]

3. He's a dirty old man, but

Christian Bale is sexy. So he gets my vote instead. :P

[racaulk]

6. I agree with you there.

Christian Bale is a hah-tee! :)

[Writer]

2. Michael Keaton was the most bangable, in my opinion.

As attractive as George Clooney is, he didn't quite fit the Batman role to me.

[Oeditpus Rex]

4. Teh mayor of Quahog, Rhode Island

[Tindalos]

5. I like Michael Keaton's dark side.

I've only seen bits and pieces of the Christian Bale one, so I can't really say about him.

[jadedconformist]

32. Have you seen Christian Bale in American Psycho?

Pretty good dark-side there.

[Tindalos]

35. I haven't seen him in anything.

Although imdb informs me he did the voice in Howl's Moving Castle. Loved that movie.

I'll have to check out American Psycho.

[Cannikin]

7. Bale makes all of them look like Adam West.

RIP Heath


http://www.atasteforthetheatrical.com/deathtrap/default.htm

[MrCoffee]

29. Adam West makes them all look like Chris O'Donnell

that's right, little buddy!

[Mojambo]

8. I really hated that Burton Batman, including Keaton.

I'd have to take Bale by default, but I don't think anyone has ever gotten it exactly right.

Testament to the character I guess.

[Crazy Dave]

9. Don't know about the Batman guys

But I've never seen anybody play "The Joker" better than Jack Nicholson

[DS1]

11. i think you will, this summer

:bounce:

[racaulk]

23. Snap!

I agree with that. I was skeptical at first, as it would be hard to top Nicholson's performance. But I think Ledger has a surprise in store for all of us. :)

[TommyO]

37. I was skeptical until I saw the bank heist trailer before

I Am Legend in an Imax theater last weekend. Heath Ledger as The Joker was disturbingly psychotic.

[kedrys]

69. After seeing the trailer, I think so too

Actually, I thought the trailer was disturbing and it gave me the heebie jeebies. And that was 2 weeks before Mr Ledger's untimely passing. :scared:

[DarkTirade]

27. I've heard someone play him better...

Mark Hamill did an amazing job for the cartoon.

[mitchum]

10. Adam West because he played Batman as a COMIC BOOK character...

not freakin' Hamlet

I am just astonished at the number of people who try to bestow middlebrow credibility upon a lowbrow creation

[Bucky]

14. Batman is pure high brow... literally

Frankly, brows just don't get any higher.

[mitchum]

16. LOL!!!

that was nicely done :)

[Cannikin]

43. Then you arent familiar with Batman comics! They were nothing like that.

Batman Begins and its sequel are based on the comic books.

[DerekG]

22. What constitutes lowbrow?

As far as I'm concerned, Batman is the most extraordinary of the medium's offerings--a pop synthesis of Byron, Poe, Doyle and Stoker.

There's nothing that can't be done with this character.

[mitchum]

31. It's a freakin' comic book character!

Isn't that lowbrow enough?
"As far as I'm concerned, Batman is the most extraordinary of the medium's offerings--a pop synthesis of Byron, Poe, Doyle and Stoker"
As I said earlier, I continue to be astonished at the number of people who...
Also, aren't Doyle and Stoker just pop anyway? when did they become high art?

Don't get me wrong; I like trash also. In fact, my trash culture delights are arguably even trashier than comic books, but I do recognize trash for what it is...lowbrow trash. Enjoy it for what it is.

[DerekG]

34. Neither High Art nor trash

There is, in fact, a middle ground between The Brothers Karamozov and the sort of material you'd find in a typical comic book. And I'd contend that the Batman tales of Moore, Goodwin, Loeb and Miller (his 80's work, anyway) occupy this terrain, for once pulp fiction is infused with proper psychological validity, it ceases to be trash.

[mitchum]

38. Or is that just symptomatic of our culture's screwed up Puritan heritage...

a weird need to justify and validate our interests?
Something along the lines of:

"Although it may appear so, I'm not wasting my time on junk for kids, but instead I am immersing myself in narratives of penetrating psychological insight"


I often tell people that I enjoy reading true crime paperbacks and watching pornography because of the formalism of the genres, but I also admit that they are still just lurid trash. And there's nothing wrong with that :)

[Taverner]

39. It's all archetypes

Jungian Archetypes

[mitchum]

40. That's what a friend of mine who is another grown up comic book fan tells me...

but he can never tell me which Jungian archetype is represented by Big Boy of the restaurant chain's giveaway comics :)

[Taverner]

41. Same as Falstaff

[mitchum]

46. That's good...

:)
And Falstaff even had a beard....except his wasn't named Dolly

[DerekG]

42. But what if such insight exists?

Arkham Asylum and Night Cries couldn't possibly be dismissed as lurid trash. So how would you judge Morrison and Goodwin? Were they misguided to use Kane's creation as a vehicle for their explorations of dementia and child abuse?

[mitchum]

45. Every daytime soap opera ever broadcast also uses psychological insight...

(as do the commercials which interrupt them), does that make Agnes Nixon an artist?

[DerekG]

51. I don't watch soap operas; I can't say

Unlike you, I'm not keen on presumptions.

[mitchum]

52. I don't either...

as in your case, they are not my preference for pop culture trash.
But EVERY type of entertainment is informed by psychological insight:
comic books
porn
soap operas
cockfighting
tabloid tv
torture films
professional wrestling
republican debates
and on and on and on...

[DarkTirade]

47. No... in this case it's because at a certain point

they started striving for something more than juvenile entertainment. And in many of the Batman comics, I for one think they succeeded.

It is not high-brow, but nor is it low-brow. They took a 2 dimensional character (no pun intended) and gave him some depth. It's not Frankenstein, but it's not pulp either.

[mitchum]

49. I agree; it has indeed been elevated to middlebrow...

for what that's worth.
The PBS series is probably just around the corner

[DarkTirade]

55. Okay, now you're no longer arguing.

You're just trying to get a rise out of people.

Some of us were actually looking for... I don't know... a discussion?

[mitchum]

56. ???

"It is not high-brow, but nor is it low-brow."
Well, if it is neither, wouldn't that make it...oh...I don't know...middle brow?

Discussion?
Wouldn't that be pointless unless I include illustrations and my points in little word balloons?

Okay. maybe there is a little bit of truth in your accusation...:)

[DarkTirade]

57. I hate to break it to you...

but you're trying to get a rise out of the wrong guy. I find comics interesting. I also find them a bit hard to read and follow. I prefer my text in book form and my art in art form. However that doesn't mean I can't find escapist literature/media in its various forms interesting.

That, and I generally don't CARE enough about most things to get pissed off. I don't take serious things seriously, let alone things that I pay attention to just because I find them to be interesting.

[mitchum]

58. I have no problem with that...

if you check upthread, I confess to also indulging in incredibly trashy escapist junk, but I don't try to make convoluted excuses for it. Trash is trash.
I think my antipathy toward comic books is rooted in childhood economics; I could read one in two or three minutes. And then my 12 cents was all spent in vain (12 cents...yes, I AM that old)

But as long as there are people who persist in calling comic books "graphic novels", I will always fuck with them. Boy Wonders or not.

[DarkTirade]

59. The problem with that being

that occasionally they ARE 'graphic novels' and occasionally they are more than just trash. And stating that does not automatically indicate that one is a fanboy.

[mitchum]

60. So...

does that make "Absalom, Absalom" a really great comic book without the drawings?

[DarkTirade]

61. ...

Y'know, if you don't at least try, there's just no point.

[mitchum]

62. Yknow...

I have stated my case far more than you have in this thread. Your argument so far has consisted of little more than "you're wrong"

If fanboys/fanmen/fan whatever...didn't suspect that comic books (if I wanted to be a real bastard about it I would call them "funny books") were a little...I don't know...declasse...why would they insist on referring to them as "novels"? Seems if they were truly comfortable with the medium, they wouldn't have to make such a patently ludicrous claim. Or maybe they have had little exposure to real novels and it's just an honest mistake.

[DarkTirade]

63. Comics come in many forms.

Some are little serial rags.

Some are full-length stories.

The full-length stories are called graphic novels.

It really doesn't get any more complicated than that. The fact that you refuse to call them that doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, called that.

[mitchum]

64. Well, if I did everything that fanboys did...

I would be celibate
So, I don't think it's wise to follow their lead

[DarkTirade]

67. And once again you're completely missing the point.

They are NOT called novels. They are called graphic novels. That is their proper title. Your lack of respect for the genre has absolutely no effect on that fact whatsoever. Nor do the fanboys' devotion to the genre. The fact that the word 'novel' is in the title does not make these graphic novels a novel any more than a soap opera is an opera.

And if your best attempt to come out on top at this point is to point and point at the fanboys and yell, "Look! Loser virgins!" then it's fairly obvious that you HAVE no argument.

I'm not telling you to do what the fanboys do or believe what they believe. I'm simply stating a fact. The name for full-length stories in comic book format is 'graphic novel'. Any attempt to argue this fact is both pointless and stupid. And yet you've persisted in doing so for this entire subthread.

Somehow I think that says a lot more about you than it does the fanboys.

Next time, try thinking through your arguments and finding actual justifications for them instead of making excuses for your personal likes and dislikes, and then trying to make the argument fit your excuses.

A good example of this would be something like, "They shouldn't be called graphic novels because they're puerile and stupid, and calling them that is an insult to actual novels." This satisfies your need to vent your personal opinion and makes sense as an argument. And while the opinion there may be subjective, at least you're making an argument instead of denying reality and coming off looking like a complete moron.

Now unless you can say something intelligent, I've really got nothing else to add. Sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'Nya nya nya' does not an argument make.

[mitchum]

68. Of course, it says a lot more about (me) than it does...

the fanboys...or...fill in the blank
That's the reason for 99% of EVERY post on this board.
I can only guess that I have been deemed the inaugural task of your new undertaking of calling out the seemingly obvious.
When I wake up tomorrow, I promise to check on your night's labor. Best of luck with your venture.

[Nevernose]

65. Huckleberry Finn was a sequel written for the money

"Hamlet" was written to fill seats (and for the money).

Okay, maybe comparing Batman to Hamlet and Huck Finn is a little over the top, but the sentiment remains the same. Comic books may be a new genre, but that doesn't make them lowbrow, especially not considering the changes they've undergone in the last ten or twenty years. "Lowbrow" people were the people buying roasted chestnuts in the cheap seats at the Globe -- a thoroughly dishonorable and disreputable profession at the time, by the way -- and watching the matinee of "Merchant of Venice."

[Redneck Socialist]

66. Have you been in a comic shop lately?

There are some pretty amazing things being done with the medium.

[DS1]

12. Bale is Batman, to me

[meegbear]

13. Adam-fucking-West ...

Q.E.-motherfuckin'-D.

[underpants]

15. Of the movies-easily EASILY Michael Keaton

Adam WEst otherwise

[bikebloke]

17. Torn

I like the new Christian Bale Batman. However, out of nostalgia from my kid television viewing, Adam West gets a nod. Remember when it came one two nights a weeks - prime time, pre-repeats and syndication? And I don't think I ought to view the old ones again, because I'm sure it would be pure shite through adult eyes.

[Bucky]

28. Phew! For a second there I thought you were suggesting that Rip Torn play Batman

On the otherhand, it wouldn't be the worst casting ever

[DarkTirade]

53. I think he'd be better than Clooney.

Nothing against Clooney, but that movie had to be one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Even if you take it by itself and ignore the rich comic book series it rectally violated in every way imaginable.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

18. What, no Kevin Conroy?

Vocally, Conroy is Batman.

(But I voted Bale for the film version.)

[DarkTirade]

21. Kevin Conroy is Batman

No doubt about it.

I cannot in good conscience vote for anyone on that poll.

Although I'd say Bale was the next best.

[Bucky]

19. How can Val Kilmer not be winning this poll?

Am I the only sane one in the Lounge today?

Only Val has Batman's traditional kissy-face lips

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5702121,00.jpg

Only Val has Batman's sculptured physique... even if his codpiece is smaller than Robin's



Only Val travels in the vintage Batmobile



And only Val can pull off that Bruce-Wayne-as-idyll-playboy routine with any ethos.

[DarkTirade]

20. Unfortunately Kilmer had the misfortune of being in the first Batman movie

that Schumaker had a hand in.

So even though I thought he did a good job with the material he was given, he was still given crap material to start with.

[Bucky]

26. Exactly. He's totally the Roger Moore of Batmen.

Totally unappreciated, but hands down the best Bond was Roger Moore. He's the only Bond who didn't seem to get off to slapping women around (or kill them the day after they had sex). Val Kilmer was the only Batman with the moral integrity to tell Robin "Get out of the costume business, kid, and go back to college."

[DerekG]

24. Well, Bale certainly had the best script to work with

Had Keaton been given something comparatively substantive, he'd of blown us away.

[Orrex]

70. An interesting suggestion. But you'd have needed a new director, too

Even to this day Burton simply lacks the chops for a fully committed and serious film. I refuse to believe, in the absence of any supporting evidence, that he can make a whole film without resorting to in-your-face camp or kitsch. Sure, Batman Begins has an inherent element of the absurd simply because of its subject matter, but IMO the film was much better because the actors and director chose to play it straight.

Keaton's Batman always seemed like a rich dilletante in a costume, which totally misses the strength of the Batman myth. Bale's Batman was the obsessed warrior, embodying the most powerful aspects of the character over the decades.

But Keaton is a fine actor, much better than he is usually credited to be.

[bigwillq]

25. Bale (nt)

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

30. I'm not sure I really care for any of the performances by those actors.

I'd say the first Batman movie, the one with Michael Keaton, was the best. Val Kilmer is one of my favorite actors but I never even bothered to watch that phase of the series.

[Lady Freedom]

33. For me, it is a 3-way tie!

Between Adam West, Val Kilmer, and George Clooney

[racaulk]

36. OMG

I love that Batman smiley! :)

[RevolutionaryActs]

44. Christian Bale...

(drool)

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. Goodness, I totally forgot about Clooney

How in the hell did that happen?

[GigiMommy]

50. Adam West

Love the 60s! Childhood memories!

[Faygo Kid]

54. Yes, for those of us who did and still do the Batusi