You know, some people seem to really enjoy their own misery.

[Danger Mouse]

I dated one of those types once, and all they ever do is bring you down.
They suck the joy out of life and all that they touch, because they're too wrapped up in themselves and ultimately selfish to see the hurt that they cause.
The only solution is to walk away, and never look back, or go down in flames with them.
I say this because I'm at a pretty decent point in my life, with a wonderful woman who validates me and makes me happy...something I could hardly fathom as of 5 years ago...

[DarkTirade]

1. Yeah, I try to avoid that...

by being sarcastic instead of miserable. :P At least when I'm being sarcastic, when bad shit happens I can make fun of it.

[Danger Mouse]

2. I tend to avoid people when I'm horribly depressed...

because I turn into a fucking selfish loser that plays manipulative games with people...
sara does the right thing...calls me out on it, and i get grouchy as hell, but it's the healthiest way for both of us to deal with it.

[SPKrazy]

3. and I am really happy for you two

:hug:

[Danger Mouse]

8. thank you, friend.

:pals: :hug:
she's the best thing to ever happen to me.

[Indi Guy]

4. It's a mistake to dismiss people's pain. There are people in the lounge who never complain at home

...but view this place as a safe place to bear their souls.

Please don't screw this up by posting insecurities of not wanting to be brought down.

If I misread you, I sincerely apologize -- otherwise, grow the fuck up.

[Danger Mouse]

6. I don't dismiss the pain of anyone...I have been there before.

However, there's a difference between baring your soul...and hiding from yourself.
Places like the Lounge make it far too easy to avoid the work that must be done to overcome depression by indulging in self-pity.

[Indi Guy]

9. Nice judgmental attitude...

...straight from the intolerant side of the aisle.

[Danger Mouse]

10. I am unbelievably tolerant...

but self-pity gets you absolutely fucking nowhere.
I know, because I've been in that destructive cycle.
I work with emotionally disturbed, and thus very emotionally fragile, children, i've been in relationships with women that were very much on the depressed side, and i've had issues with depression myself.

[Indi Guy]

12. I agree that self pity is self destructive...

...but who are you to be the arbiter of what is self pity, and what is an honest catharsis?

[Danger Mouse]

14. Did I make an absolutist statement?

I'm refering to 'some' people.
Not all.

[Indi Guy]

20. Yeah ...and by you generalization of "some;" you can potentially dissuade...

...sensative people with real problems from expressing things that need to be expressed (even if it seems as mundane as having to get up & go to the store with the flu.

I used to think just like you. Pride does indeed go before the fall.

[Danger Mouse]

22. I wouldn't dissuade anyone from opening up.

not at all.
i would encourage it.
wallowing in misery, however, i would not encourage.
there's a difference.
and you can cram your shit about pride straight up your ass.

[Indi Guy]

31. (Intentional or not) Your OP can dissuade "some" severely distressed people from opening

Agreed?

I'm not trying to back you against a wall. I know it's late and you're a sympathetic guy.

This understood, don't you think it's a far better expense of our energies to quit our bitching about bitchers -- and actually adhere to the essential need to first -- add positive thought into our social mix?

[Indi Guy]

37. Unanswered... n/t

[Danger Mouse]

39. probably.

i'll answer when i'm less sleepy. >_<

[fizzgig]

24. i think there's a difference between the two

i understand depression and hurt, i understand blowing off steam and being pissed off and needing to let loose once in awhile.

but the same thing day in and day out, same stuff but a different day, always 'poor me'...the ones who resist any help. that strikes me as different

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. it is different. there are people who are unhappy and cant stand others to be happy

its very different from being depressed, living through a tragedy, having a bad day etc.

[Mojorabbit]

41. I disagree

I indulge in a self pity day every now and then. It does me wonders. I then pick myself up and go about my business in a better frame of mind.

[Danger Mouse]

11. Oh, and I missed the 'grow the fuck up' originally.

Wow.
Classy.

[flvegan]

5. "Some people" like whom or how?

I think I may well agree with you, though I think it's "embrace" over "enjoy".

[Danger Mouse]

7. hmmm....embrace might be a better word, now that you mention it.

as to how, well, free pity is never hard to find, for those that seek it...

[Shine]

13. I'm glad you're happy, but I gotta be honest, your post comes off a bit judgmental

and not very compassionate. :thumbsdown:

[Danger Mouse]

16. I am very compassionate.

And very supportive of people who need love.
However, when it becomes clear that a person is slowly destroying themself, and that they're not going to change their ways, or get help in changing their ways...that's a sinking ship I don't want to go down on.

[fizzgig]

29. it starts as compassion

but it then becomes a matter of self-preservation, i guess

i've been on both sides of that before and neither feels very good

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. We have at least one here at DU.

But I won't name names, of course.

Toxic people suck being around.

[Danger Mouse]

19. i was with a girl once, at the height of my worst periods of depression...

and she eventually left me, being thoroughly exhausted by it emotionally.
i hated her at the time, but in retrospect, i understand why...
in my downward spiral, i was destroying her as well, and her only hope was to walk away or go down with me.

[amitten]

32. Gee, I wonder who that is.

No I don't. I'm pretty freakin' sure I know who it is...

That broad just sucks the life outta me.

[Midlodemocrat]

46. It's me, isn't it?

:cry:

[fizzgig]

17. sometimes it's all people know

and it's their defense against the world. it's a hard cycle to break, partly because it is so self-perpetuating.

but i agree, some people seem to be happy only when they're miserable

[Danger Mouse]

21. it's not an easy situation by any means.

and i think you can safely say i'm not lacking in compassion, right, love? =)

[raccoon]

47. I have known such people, one in particular a co-worker who was always

miserable and/or angry. She was so miserable she resented the hell out of anyone else being happy. People like her usually do.

I believe she was clinically depressed. I hope she got some therapy and/or meds.

[Rosemary2205]

18. I'm a whiner.

Not so much anymore. I can handle all sorts of emotional crap, financial hardship, disappointments. My endurance with a positive attitude was always great. But let me be in physical pain and I'll whine like a brat all freakin day. Drives everyone nuts. Not so much anymore though, I guess because I'm always in pain now and my tolerance has gotten better.

[fizzgig]

33. i'm sorry you're in pain, rosemary

:hug:

i'm the same way...i revert to being about three years old when i'm sick

[Rosemary2205]

35. In my case, pain is a VERY GOOD thing.

Pain means my nerves still work and something is getting through the problem area to my brain. This is a very good thing in my case. It creates much hope, not discouragement. But yeah, sometimes I get sick of it just want my mommy. :)

[fizzgig]

36. that's good then

and here's hoping for more hope :)

[SPKrazy]

23. You might be writing about me for all i know

i complain here

but i also work with a therapist and support groups, and am trying to change my life.

22 years of sobriety is some evidence of that

12 or more years (probably many more untreated) of depression and anxiety that have never been completely gone...

sure, self pity is something i struggle with

if people don't want to read a thread where someone is complaining or making a statement, the hide thread or ignore functions work.

I think it is a pretty broad generalization to assume that because someone posts in the lounge about their pain, and it appears to you that they are in self pity, that they are avoiding work on themselves

i thought you were just making a statement about people that are like you describe, and not referring to the lounge so to speak.

there are people that suck the life out of you for sure.

i am not one of them i hope

:shrug:

[Danger Mouse]

25. i've never had a complaint with you.

and i wasn't specifically refering to the lounge either, but some people have tried to make it into that, so i'm responding in kind.

[SPKrazy]

26. i see

i didn't take it that way to start with

i was just happy for you and sara cause you obviously make each other happy

and i care about her and i care about you

although i know her better, you and i used to banter around the lounge before you became king :P

[Danger Mouse]

27. i care about you as well

...and all of my friends in the lounge as well.
and it breaks my heart to see any of them hurting. i mean that.
i'm not a cold-hearted bastard, seriously :P

[SPKrazy]

28. at least you aren't john malkovich anymore

:scared:

but the burger king king

:rofl:

you crack me up elrond

:hug:

[Danger Mouse]

30. let my enemies hate me, so long as they fear me.

a lesson taught by the roman emperor caligula...

[Indi Guy]

34. Elrond, are you a genuine Scientologist?

???

[Danger Mouse]

40. absolutely not.

:hi:

[Heidi]

38. I respectfully disagree.

Two of my best friends in the world (one a friend of 25 years and the other a friend of 12 years) suffer from chronic mental illness. I would NEVER walk away from either of them and never look back. Never.

I would point out that _no one_ sucks the life out of me or pulls me "down in flames" unless I give them that power over my life and reactions. :hi:

[last_texas_dem]

42. I think those who truly "enjoy" being miserable are few and far between.

In the vast majority of cases, the way that the depressed feel and, in turn, act, and the negative effects that their behavior can have on others, especially the people that are most important to them, are greatly out of their control. They are not purposely trying to be selfish and force others to live with the same difficult problems with which they are living. While I know there are people who try to manipulate and hurt people, I don't think it is very common that these are the same types as the severely depressed people your post seems to be discussing. Obviously, if you believe someone is purposely trying to hurt or control you or bring you down, getting them out of your life may be the best thing to do. But I do not believe this is the best course of action regarding someone who you consider to be a true friend and who matters to you whose outlook on life and the way that they handle themselves is bringing you down; in fact, I think essentially abandoning them is one of the worst things to do to that person.

Just my feelings on this... I'm not trying to be judgmental, as I don't really know you, your circumstances, and the things that you've been through. But just from reading your OP and considering my personal experiences, I wouldn't tend to agree with the conclusion you draw, at least when it comes to the vast majority of the people that I believe might fit the description of being a "drain" on those close to them due to their depression.

[The Animator]

43. I've had people in my life that were so bent on sinking their own lives

that they'd have sucked me down with them had I not jump ship well before they hit the ice-berg. Misery really does love company. It may seem cruel to some, and I am definitely not the type who severs my connections to people idly, but sometimes you have to look out for yourself, and break free from people who are not healthy for you. I am not someone who has ever had a surplus of friends, the few I have though, I truly appreciate. We enjoy each others company in good times and, they are there for me when I need them, and likewise I would do anything for them.

You have to be careful though, who you let into your life. Sometimes before you even get to know someone, you can see they're in trouble. Because you are a sincerely caring soul, your heart aches for them. You try to offer a helping hand, to pull them back from the edge. They make a few half hearted attempts to climb back up, but you can see that they aren't really making a genuine effort. You hang on though, because you feel deep down that every life is worth saving, but some people don't want to be saved.

Some people sabotage themselves, whether they know it or not. They will set themselves up to fail, just so they can feed of the pity, so they can say "see I told you I couldn't do it." For some, living on the brink of disaster is the only place they feel safe, more afraid to succeed than of falling. Before you realize it they've given up trying to help themselves entirely, and now the only thing that is keeping them from falling off the cliff is you, but the ground beneath you is not that solid.

The world beneath you collapses and you find yourself hanging one handed, with the weight of two lives upon you. You call down to your friend, begging him to help himself, because you can't do this on your own. He tells you he's sorry, that he knew all along he was going to fall, but he just didn't want to fall alone. That is when you decide. You have no intention of being dragged down with him. You want to survive, you want to succeed, you want to get out of this fucking pit! You don't have the strength to save him, but you can save yourself. So you do the unthinkable, it tears your soul, but in the end, you let him go.

[DarkTirade]

48. That was deep.

Wait... were you talking 'bout me there? :P

[The Animator]

66. No dude, this was before I even knew you.

A childhood friend. At the time, quite possibly my only friend besides my cousin Dave. I don't know whatever happened to him, I cut all ties with him when I moved to Orlando. I was just starting at UCF, no body knew me here. A chance to make a fresh start, and I did not need the kind of drama that he always created to follow me here. Deep down I knew if he could find a way to sabotage me here, he would do it. He wouldn't be able to stand it if I was successful, if I made new friends. He just wanted me to fail, and come back to Tampa so we could wallow in each others misery.

[DarkTirade]

69. Yeah, drama sucks.

Drama people create massive amounts of suckage.

And not in the good way.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. Yeah,..I'm loving it.

[fudge stripe cookays]

63. .

:hug:

We love you sweetie. Just ignore him.

[Danger Mouse]

71. FFS, the OP had nothing to do with Mrs. G!

[bicentennial_baby]

72. Regardless, you should have let this drop...

x(

[Danger Mouse]

76. sorry...

just felt the need to defend myself in that regard.
i think people seriously misread my OP.

[fizzgig]

68. this was in no way directed at you, mrs. g

or anyone in such a situation. you have gone through an unimaginable loss

please know you are often in my mind :hug:

[Danger Mouse]

70. My OP had absolutely nothing to do with you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Regardless it's bullshit and cruel.

Here's the thing. Sometimes it's real life and not a soap opera.

[Danger Mouse]

86. Sometimes it is.

And sometimes it's not.
Look at it how you like.

[ScreamingMeemie]

97. I don't believe I need your permission to do that. Grow up.

[Danger Mouse]

104. Same to you.

[libodem]

103. Mrs G

oh, sister, your pain is legitimate and not anything you created. You are a completely different situation than the stupid drama queens and crisis junkies the OP is talking about. Grief takes many forms and everyone does it in their own way. It's not a right or wrong judgment call. My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine your loss. I so don't think this was a personal attack. I've had three different girlfriends who lost their kids to car wrecks. They went through hell. My husband died after we were divorced and it left me with so much guilt, grief and shame. I know your situation was tragic and unexpected. You must have a deep black hole of despair in your heart with nothing that can ever fill in the missing part. I feel for you. Your story has touched me deeply.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

45. Yes indeedy.

My cousin is one such person. Drives me batshit insane.

:crazy:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. some people do enjoy being miserable.

[IndianaJones]

52. some people just think they have a monopoly on it. Like no other people...

have ever experienced horrible events in their lives. Its the least unique thing in the world.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. also some people cannot stand other people being happy. i am unfortunately

related to some of these people.


:hi:

[IndianaJones]

56. yeah...me too. I just stopped communicating with them. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. i wish i could but i cant.

:(

[IndianaJones]

58. It helps that I live far away. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. i am very CLOSELY related. too close to cut off communications.

[IndianaJones]

61. I haven't talked to my mom in 10 years. Maybe some day...

maybe not.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

62. my mom wants me to fix something. has for years, she knows i cant fix him

so she calls me, to tell me atleast once a week, what his recent wrongdoings are. knowing fully well it makes me unhappy.

there is no other reason she does it except to make me unhappy. she knows full well there is NOTHING i can do about it.

and if she wants someone to listen, she cant find anyone who it doesnt hurt. she knows it hurts me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Some people need to shut up.

Wanna trade?

[MonkeyFunk]

64. Hey Mrs.G

:hug:

[IndianaJones]

51. this is truth. nt.

[AirmensMom]

55. I disagree.

Sometimes life hands you things that are just too hard to bear. It's not up to you to judge how people handle the pain they've been dealt. It's not up to you to judge whether or not the thing causing the pain is "bad enough" to warrant the reaction that you find so offensive. If you have to walk away, that's up to you. People who really love the one in pain and misery will stay around.

The people I treasure the most (and some of them are here on DU) are the ones who have stayed with me through the hard times. People who recognize my worth, even when I'm miserable. I've had friends who think like you ... "had" being the operative word. They bailed when they didn't approve of the way I handled the shit, just when I really needed them. (I guess I brought them down.) I wouldn't do that to a friend.

[LostinVA]

65. Very nice post

You expressed it beautifully.

[Danger Mouse]

73. Just because you need to walk away from a person doesn't mean you don't love them.

Sometimes it's the best thing for them.
And you have no idea how I think, just how you assume I think.
I would stick with a person through almost anything...almost. I have my limits. Everyone has their limits, and anyone who says that they don't is lying to themselves.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

83. If you bail on someone, perhaps you AREN'T really his/her friend, you're right.

And I don't see much wrong with that, to be honest. You get rid of the toxicity (to you, at least) of that relationship, and the other person is freed from a "friendship" that really wasn't, will maybe find someone better to help out. :)

[Droopy]

60. Nobody enjoys being miserable

Some people are just unable or don't know how to change it. Others are in unfortunate circumstnaces beyond their control. I was miserable for 10 years due to mental illness because I didn't know I was sick. I tried everything within my power to feel better, but nothing worked until I started to get treatment.

[raccoon]

67. Well said. nt

[Danger Mouse]

75. That's your situation, and your experience.

And when I mean enjoy, I don't mean 'oh boy I love being so depressed!' flvegan used a better word... 'embrace'...

[Fire Walk With Me]

74. That's what I am and am working my way out of it.

It's not a very clear path, but it's possible.

[Kajsa]

77. Hi Elrond!

Yep, misery loves company and making everyone
else miserable.
I've been with a few like that, myself.

I couldn't agree more with you regarding your wonderful lady!

You two are wonderful together.

:loveya: :grouphug:

[Danger Mouse]

78. Thank you..

and i hope you're doing well yourself, my friend.
=)

[Kajsa]

99. I am.

And I'm happy that SoCal
finally got some rain.

We really needed it.

:hug:

[woo me with science]

80. You speak wisdom.

What a difference there is between feeling sorry for yourself occasionally and making it a lifestyle.

This distinction is important when faced with the "you're not compassionate" trump card.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

82. There's a difference between being compassionate and being a tool.

The "you're not compassionate" trump card is one of my least favorites, since too often it seems to imply that anything less than completely depleting yourself for another person is inappropriate.

:thumbsup:

[Danger Mouse]

89. people who say that are never willing to completely deplete themself for a person...

they talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk.
those that actually DO it are hopelessly stupid and deserve the misery they get.

[ScreamingMeemie]

98. And, in this case, tool works excellently.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

102. I highly doubt Elrond is pointing any fingers at you.

There are far too many people on DU who are or have been or will be miserable, for any length of time, for this to have a particular target. Why anyone would pick you out to complain about I don't understand either, as it's not only cruel but insensible, considering what the understandable backlash would be.

Please have a good day today, or even a good moment, even if you have to fake it.

:hug:

:hi:

[Danger Mouse]

105. I wasn't...

but she has chosen to lash out at me, which i do not appreciate.

[Danger Mouse]

90. Thank you for not posting the same knee-jerk response as many of the others on this thread.

According to them, i'm a stone-cold emotionless asshole :P

[ThomCat]

81. I'm conflicted about how to respond.

Some people think I'm one of those people who wallows in misery because I've always got pain to talk about. I've had people walk away from me because they couldn't handle what I was going through. Other people see it the exact oposite and see me dealing with pain and overcoming it, not wallowing in it.
:shrug:

Sometimes there's no guessing how other people will interpret how you deal with your your.

When your life is wrapped up in bad stuff that happens over and over and over again, or when one really horribly bad thing dominates your life, it's hard to pretend to be positive and cheerful. Though I don't think that's what you're expecting, or what you want people to do. You strike me as much, much more empathetic than that.

I guess I can't really respond to your post well as a generalization. I'd have to know a situation individually before I could judge what you're saying.

[Danger Mouse]

87. I don't want to be too specific about it...

out of respect for the people who are currently frustrating me...
but i will say i wouldn't dream of speaking ill of you.

[ThomCat]

93. :)

:hug:

[Danger Mouse]

94. right back at you.

:hug:

[fizzgig]

96. i have never thought of you as a wallower

you, thom, are one of the strongest and most amazing people i know

:hug:

[Runcible Spoon]

84. Not understanding why people are jumping on you...

I don't know about these people "enjoying" their misery, but I agree with you.Some people are too fucking toxic. I spent 6 years total, over $8,000, and endless oceans of tears on not one but TWO toxic trainwrecks. And I so strongly disagree with the people saying that if you truly loved them, you would stay with them and help them recover. Guess what? I loved them, I still get pains in my chest thinking about them, especially when I try to imagine what they are doing/where they are now. BUt just because someone is depressed/mentally ill does NOT mean you have to accept their behavior forever when they: cheat on you, beg you for money to pay their debts bc they are drowning in CC debt/behind on student loan payments/about to get evicted/etc, manipulate you into thinking they are really sorry and they only did these things because they felt so alone and needed to feel loved. Well you get the picture. Most recently, I had to call the police to literally remove this person from my life/apartment; there he was sobbing and clinging on to the door and wouldn't leave. It's scary to think what a person like that could do if given a weapon or a lot of drugs. Anyway, :hug:

[Danger Mouse]

88. some people apparently believe that it's perfectly alright to let someone wreck you along with

themself.
i was there, terrible relationship, with a girl on a downward spiral determined to make me as miserable as she was.
the best possible thing for me and for her was when she realized how much hurt she had caused for me out of her own selfish preoccupation.

[crim son]

85. I've been thinking about what you're saying for many years.

I see that there are different types of people, dealing with their misery or depression in their own way, and when I apply my thoughts to posters on DU, I see maybe two types: one, those who are struggling with something, perhaps many things, and who post looking for support and kind words because the support really helps. Then there are the others, who are clearly miserable but their sadness comes out as a sort of bitterness against not only themselves but everybody else. There is a veneer of friendliness coating their words, but at bottom one senses that they gain strength not from the kindness they receive, but from the act of posting hatefully to begin with.

Does that make any sense? Probably not. :eyes: Well then, screw you. :P

edited for typo

[Danger Mouse]

91. no, screw YOU

:hug:
it makes sense.

[crim son]

92. ...

:loveya:

[Danger Mouse]

95. aww...

:loveya:
:hug:

[grace0418]

100. I see you've met my mother.

And possibly my husband's brother's wife.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

101. or mine.