Deckard IS a replicant.

[Fire Walk With Me]

I can point out at least four items backing this up.

However, I will not do so. Watch the film for yourself.

Please to enjoy.

[Babel_17]

1. Ah, a fellow fan

For my own amusement I imagine that "everyone" except Deckard was in on the joke.

Tyrell, his Captain, and Graff.

No one else recognized him by sight.

I figure he got popped out of Tyrell's labs to deal with the sudden problem and was dropped in front of that sushi bar, all loaded with false memories (maybe from a real, and now dead, Blade Runner). His life started there in other words.

That would explain why he got treated by the sushi vendor the way he did, the guy never dealt with him before. It would explain Graff's amused contempt. The cops on the beat always needed to see his ID too. Weird for such a legend.

Maybe even Batty and his group could subliminally sense it.

Watching the movie that way, it's a total joke on Deckard from start to finish, gives it new life imo.

Harrison Ford didn't see his role that way but I think his handling of the character leaves room for the viewer to imagine away.

[Connonym]

3. I want to see it again with this in mind

that's an interesting way of looking at it and it'll be fun to watch with a fresh perspective. And maybe some Jamesons.

[Frank Cannon]

6. It's also why he gets the shit kicked out of him by every replicant...

he runs into. In fact, he is almost killed by them twice before being rescued at the very last second.

How ingenious for the Tyrell Corporation to build a replicant-killer who is so deceptively inept!

[Babel_17]

10. Well .....

The thinking is that if he could readily tap those abilities he would know he himself was a replicant.

And that might lower his motivation to be a good Blade Runner. :)

He sure did take a licking and keep on ticking though, that could be a less obvious enhancement perhaps.

[Lethe]

44. yeah there were different models of replicants too

who says they all have to have the same characteristics?

from what i remember Roy and Leon were for military duty, so they would have extra tough physical defenses and respond with an aggressive nature to confrontation.

Deckard could have been a replicant that was more mellow because he worked around humans more, where you wouldnt want a replicant to go ballistic.

Deckard being a replicant makes total sense from a police standpoint as well. Why would you waste a human life fighting against these replicants when you could just create a replicant to do it for you? If Deckard fails, so what, get another replicant to finish the job.

Also, when Deckard refuses to take the job, the police boss says something like "you're little people" and Deckard says "no choice huh?"
Would they just force a veteran police officer to take a super dangerous mission against his will like that?

[Westegg]

36. I think P.K.Dick would DIG this!...

I certainly do. Hell, it makes as much sense as anything else. While I'm one of the ones who thinks Deckard is PROBABLY a replicant (though I love the ambiguity-- the Not Knowing For Sure), I've never watched the film from the perspective you're suggesting, and I'll have to do that soon.

[Babel_17]

2. Couple of other thoughts

Does Deckard try to refuse the assignment, saying "I'm retired"? Lol, because if you accept that he has memories of a dead guy and with "retired" being a euphemism for "killed" that would be funny.

Regarding the beginning of the movie at the Sushi bar: He was ordering a ton of food, like a man that was starving ...... for his first meal, maybe?

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. And interesting that they had tank-grown replicant fish meat.

Real fish would have been unmanageably expensive.

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. I might as well spit it out and get into ye olde, useless high-school fanboy monologue.

1. Synthetic choir music during the Voight-Kampf test on Rachel recurs, and I only noticed it tonight, so I'll have to guess as best I can, during/after Deckard's Unicorn daydream. Nice symbolism. There is another use of choir music later on, and it's seemingly a human choir; I'll have to pay attention to that the next time I watch to note the intent and the character it is aimed at.

2. Three times, someone ends up with white makeup on their face. Roy Batty twice, from kissing Pris, and Deckard, from kissing Rachel.

3. The Unicorn daydream itself, coupled with the unicorn origami from Gaff. No one else would know about that, and the scene was inteneded in the first cut of the film.

4. As pointed out in the commentary, the scene in Deckard's home when his eyes take on the same reflective state as Rachel, Roy, Pris, Zhora, and the manufactured owl.

5. When Deckard has the Unicorn daydream, he is surrounded by photos of what may be his family lineage, as well as Leon's photos of his past and the other replicants, as well as Rachel's photo of implanted memories. He cuts from his implanted daydream to these photos.

Okay, five, not four. I'm sure that I could come up with more than that.

I really like the use of clockworks, electronic parts/wires, and mannequins (and even broken dolls, nice one) and the eyes (window of the soul; can you tell who has a soul or not?).

One thing begins to grate after so many views: some of the neon signs make multiple appearances, such as the dragon with the flickering tongue.

Another thing that I don't get, or is it merely poetic license, playing with polarities/juxtaposition? The tubes containing extreme heat and extreme cold, the egg cooker in Sebastian's place and the eye storage in Chew's storefront.

[TZ]

7. oh dear...

Do I smell a brewing geek war?
:D :popcorn:

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. My action figures can beat up your action figures with one arm rubber-banded behind their backs.

[chknltl]

8. Ok...wtf is a replicant???

I keep seeing that word and it reminds me of the band name "Priss and the Replicants". Now I KNOW you can not be discussing THOSE particular replicants because they were only seen briefly in the early moments of the first episode of the great anime series: "Bubblegum Crises"... Yet after perusing this thread, I see the name "Priss" mentioned...OK so now I gotta know, what in world are y'all talkin about?

[Babel_17]

14. The movie, Blade Runner

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~stvens/BRF1.htm

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~stvens/BRF3.htm

"Replicants are manufactured organisms designed to carry out work too boring, dangerous, or distasteful for humans.
The "NEXUS 6" replicants are nearly indistinguishable from humans. (In one draft of the script Bryant tells Deckard they did an autopsy on the replicant that was fried trying to break into the Tyrell Corp. and didn't even know it was a replicant until two hours into the procedure.)

Replicants presumably differ from humans in one important factor: they are lacking in empathy.

In BR, the replicants' eyes glow (even those of an artificial owl), however Ridley Scott has stressed that this is merely a cinematic technique, and the glow can't be seen by the characters in the story, only by the audience.

The manufacturers noticed that replicants had eccentricities because they were emotionally immature. Rachael was a prototype replicant with experimental memory implants, designed to provide a cushion for her emotions."


Caveat Emptor: While the links take you a nice online resource for BR it should be noted that "The Final Cut" of BR that was recently released clears up some of the errors from the earlier versions of the movie.

[chknltl]

47. Thanks for clearing that up.

I was getting myself confused thinking you all might have been discussing "Priss and the Replicants", a band from the early '80s anime series "Bubblegum Crises". Now I see that BgC was likely strongly influenced by Blade Runner.
Even wiki agrees about that strong influence, (note: that's "Priss" on the cover of the DVD):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubblegum_Crisis

[Der Blaue Engel]

40. Pris IS a Replicant

What a great name for a band! Never heard of them, but Pris is the Daryl Hannah replicant character in Blade Runner.

Now ask me what a chickenhead is.

:rofl:

edited for punctuation

[chknltl]

45. Meant to put this here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7357009&mesg_id=7357009

I agree Priss IS a Replicant! (see links)

btw: Darrel Hannah would have made a GREAT "Priss"... well this anime one at any rate!

Thanks for clueing me in on what you folks were talking about. When the Blade Runner movie first came out, I was less than pleased after watching it...that attitude has since changed of course.


btw: Darral Hannah tops my all time "Hawtie" list...she would have made a fabulous Priss...(the Bubblegum Crises one that is). She made a GREAT cavewoman too!

[Perry Logan]

9. Exactly. If Deckard were a replicant, the replicants wouldn't have beaten the crap out of him.

[baldguy]

11. The same way a Ferrari is faster than a a Chevy SUV.

The Chevy is a good, decent workhorse, but the Ferrari will beat it every time.

Deckard was a Chevy, the Nexus 6 Replicants were Ferraris.

[edbermac]

12. How can a replicant get his fingers broken?

Like Roy Batty does to Deckard near the end?

WELL???

Deckard is HUMAN!!!

[Swede]

13. Replicants can't get broken bones? Really.

He's a replicant,no doubt about it. He's just not supposed to know.

[Ediacara]

21. Replicants ARE humans

It isn't explicit in the film, but the novel from which the film is based explains (in so many words) that andies are GM human clones created as adults.

[edbermac]

30. Well explain this to me.

When replicants Roy Batty and Leon visit the eye doctor, Leon sticks his hand in this freezing cold liquid and doesn't even bat an eye. No pain, no ill effects, nothing.

At the end as I point out, Roy breaks two of Deckard's fingers and he yelps in pain.

He is NOT a replicant. Even Ford commented that when he made the film it was understood that his character was human.

[Ediacara]

31. I'll explain it by saying Ridley Scott likes to hype ambiguity and doesn't care if they're robots or

clones.

[redqueen]

15. God damn it.

*sigh*

[DS1]

16. ha!

I was wondering when you'd show up :D

[redqueen]

18. Dude... feel my pain.

I just came here from GDP to get away from the $389P@$&*(P* bullshit... and THIS is the first thread I gotta see?

WHY, God, WHY?! :banghead: :P

[DS1]

22. entrench yourself in the lounge and admire my enormous kitty

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7353091

[redqueen]

23. Hehe... nice name.

:thumbsup:

[MrCoffee]

17. Alerting

for utter bullshit.

[Fire Walk With Me]

24. Please join the geekfest.

One of us, one of us...

:cry:

[MrCoffee]

28. i'm so pissed at Ridley Scott

PKD is the man, and if he says that Deckard isn't a replicant (as he obviously IS NOT in the novel), then who the hell does Ridley Scott think he is playing with an absolutely fundamental bedrock plotpoint just to sell more copies of his next editing job?

Ridley Scott is a tool.

[Fire Walk With Me]

41. It's not the novel.

:shrug:

I just can't be a stickler for novel-to-film transferrence on this one; I love Blade Runner for what it is as much as I love the PKD book for what it is. PDK's book is excellent, no one can deny that.

This is one of those extremely rare times where I can set aside the differences between something I like and what has come of it. But believe me, I can fully understand anyone's passion for the original and rejection of anything not doing it perfect justice. No worries. You're right.

[Ediacara]

19. Deckard is a normal human

Replicants, btw, ARE ALSO HUMANS. They're human clones created in a lab to be born as adults and lack empathic responses because they weren't socialized as children (which is what PKD explains in so many words in DADOES).

And then become slaves on Mars.

And then are hunted down by people on Earth because they're not terribly fond of being Martian slaves.

Yet the "normal humans" are the heroes....

[redqueen]

20. "Yet the "normal humans" are the heroes...."

What gives you that idea?

[Fire Walk With Me]

25. The normal humans are broken gods who don't even care about their situation.

Even Tyrell says so: "Things we take for granted".

Sorry to drag you in, Redqueen.

[redqueen]

26. Sorry?

You're not sorry. x(

[Fire Walk With Me]

42. I cannot prevent you from attending situations which may cause you dismay

however much I wish that I could. Just as much as I cannot prevent myself from exhuming and examining this topic.

We're stuck being what we are :cry:

[redqueen]

48. Ah no I'm just givin ya a hard time...

I'd much rather argue about this than whether Obama's a race-baiter or Hillary a racist or Edwards' supporters willfully ignorant fools. Bleah.

:hug:

[Ediacara]

29. The fact that Deckard is the central character in both book and film

I don't understand the entire society that DADOES takes place in. The andies are clones made to be slaves on Mars. But would you own a slave? Would anyone you know actually own a slave? Do you think that a society where the majority of people own slaves could reemerge in fifty years?

The answer to all of those questions is, "no." Even after a nuclear war makes Earth so bad that people move to Mars for a better life, I doubt most people would be okay with owning a slave. And even if there were a few who would be okay, I'd imagine it would be illegal, and a large and sophisticated network would work to free the andies from slavery, rather than hunting them down and killing them.

[redqueen]

32. Androids, not "clones".

Will humans own robots as "slaves"? Most likely. Will our technology improve to the point that androids are virtually human? Perhaps. If so, at what point along the line will people recognize where they've gone wrong?

[Ediacara]

34. The fact that we are having this conversation now, that sci-fi has seen this issue for 50 years...

...tells me that human clones and sentient machines will never be slaves. Everyone who participates in the conversation finds the idea of owning another sentient being abhorrent, so I think long before the technologies exist to create sentient machines, the legal framework will be in place to expand the idea of a "person" to include clones, sentient machines, and probably non-human apes.

[Fire Walk With Me]

43. "Everyone in the conversation finds the idea of owning another sentient being abhorrent"

Excepting Republicans.

Remember, we're not too many generations removed from white suthuhn gentlemen who owned slaves and saw no problem in so doing.

I'm not certain that the concept has been bred out of them just yet.

[redqueen]

49. Sure, everyone here, on DU...

but everyone on the world? Sex slavery is still around, you know. So there are those who would, no matter what society at large thinks. Now that's just the extreme... as for the more mundane... robots are already around, but in the near future we'll have waitstaff, servants, laborers of all kinds, and last but not least - the "pleasure models". Will people own these? I think you'd be naive to say no.

Now you seem to be saying that once they're "sentient" it will automatically be a no-brainer that we'd stop buying and owning them... is that what you're saying? Because I don't think it's so cut and dry. First of all because I don't think it will be so easy to define what level of sentience warrants protection (consider the plight of animals and *gasp* the abortion debate), and second of all because I think the people who would rather keep them as slaves will rationalize reasons to keep thinking the robots / androids are "less-than".

[unpossibles]

37. virtually human?

or more human than human?

;)

[PVnRT]

33. As I recall from the book, you got one free when you emigrated

[EstimatedProphet]

38. I disagree

The society in DADOES, and our society for that matter, wouldn't bat an eye at owning one, because they've been made to believe that replicants/andies are inferior to humans, and a product. They'd be perfectly happy with owning one. And in our society, where we hire illegals for $10/day of hard labor without batting an eye, would happily have a replicant if they were allowed.

[no name no slogan]

35. And the crook almost gets away with it, if it weren't for those meddling kids

Thanks for ruining the ending for me :(

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. I have some bad news about Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker for you...

[Dr. Strange]

50. What, they're replicants?

I don't buy it.

[Babel_17]

39. The androids in DADOES were part mechanical

I mention this because I think there might be a misunderstanding there. Lol, I needed to check.

Also, PKD was quite happy, overall, with the job Ridley Scott did.

"As the android's hands sank into his throat Rick fired his regulation issue old-style pistol from its shoulder holster; the .38 magnum slug struck the android in the head and its brain box burst. The Nexus-6 unit which operated it blew into pieces ....."

"Some female androids seemed to him pretty; he had found himself physically attracted by several, and it was an odd sensation, knowing intellectually that they were machines but emotionally reacting anyhow."

I'm still leafing through the novel but I get the sense that the androids have organic flesh, glands, etc. but have at their core a cpu of sorts.

One more thing, there's a scene in the novel that indirectly suggests Tyrell might have raped his "real" niece, the one who's memories were used for Rachel.

"You become pregnant," Rick continued, "by a man who has promised to marry you. The man goes off with another woman, your best friend; you get an abortion and - "
"I would never get an abortion," Rachael said. "Anyhow you can't. It's a life sentence and the police are always watching." This time both needles swung violently into the red.
"How do you know that?" Rick asked her, curiously. "About the difficulty of obtaining an abortion?"
"Everybody knows that," Rachel answered.
"It sounded like you spoke from personal experience."

Edit: spelling