Is it stupid, right now, to spend $1000 in certification training books?

[Deja Q]

Windows server 2003, MSCE, et al? If not more?

I'm thinking "Possibly not" as network configuration and server/cluster setup/maintenance will be an in-thing for some time...

[PeaceNikki]

1. No.

I am doing MCITP: Database Administrator Certification. The MS E-Learning is my path of choice.

Here's a link to a 35% savings code if any of these programs are of interest to you:

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/elearning/skillsplus/default.mspx

[Deja Q]

2. Thanks!

I've eyeballed DBA as well; my ADD makes things difficult, but I do understand the logic behind many relational concepts.

[PeaceNikki]

3. It's fun.

I've been doing SQL programming for a few years now. While my co-workers have taught me a ton and I've learned even more on my own, it's time to get some "formal" training and certifications. I deserve it.

I toiled for a long time about how to go about it. Everyone and their brother has books/software/classroom training for MS certs. The prices vary GREATLY. After much contemplation, I went with the MS programs. It's comprehensive, affordable and I figured the horse's mouth was the place to go.

[Deja Q]

4. Logical.

While real world experience ought to supplant textbook scenarios, they come in handy too.

Not all this stuff can be outsourced, and while some of those chaps get paid $100k/more per year, I'd have no qualms doing the work for half. It's an affordable wage.

[PeaceNikki]

5. DBA's make much more than $50k, I assure you.

I know good network admins make a lot more as well. Those jobs, for the most part, are pretty safe.

Right now is really a good time for those of us in a specialized IT corner who are good at what we do. Not a lot of the generation right behind me (I'm mid 30's) is getting into IT. Finding your niche and kicking ass at it will provide stability and and a good living.

Good luck!!

[Deja Q]

7. I can't entirely blame those younger than us...

I'm also mid-30s and, for a while, was put off by continuing in IT. Offshoring has hurt this country, but it's not going to ruin it. Our kids do need a little more faith, but if they're anything like the kids I went to school with, they'll shrug everything off in favor of the new xbox video game and call technically adept people "geeks".

I've recently changed my mind. It's not too late, I am smart, I have my compensations for my few flaws (ADD), and I can make it after all.

But don't expect me to take a frilly hat and throw it up into the air at the IDS tower come winter... Oh no, it's an esoteric Mary Tyler Moore reference! :cry:



Good luck to you too. :toast:

[Wapsie B]

17. But what about those of us who deal with IT issues in their jobs everyday

but don't have a formal IT job like Network Admn. or DBA? Is there a place for us to enter? I'm 50 and work in healthcare and find myself to go to guy for IT things in our dept. It's not a formal requirement for the job I have. As a matter of fact many if not most in my line of work are very much out of their element when dealing with computers. I enjoy that aspect of my work and would love to explore a career transition to IT. Are the days of OJT'ng into an IT job long gone? Could I have a reasonable expectation of employment after getting one of these certifications?

[PeaceNikki]

18. I'm not real sure.

That's how I transitioned into IT. I got very lucky working in jobs where that kind of movement was allowed. But, I started to do that in the early to mid 90's. It's a different world now. The idea of transitioning as an IT "generalist" seems like it might be tougher than it was back 10+ years ago, but if you find a focus (networking, business intelligence, databases, etc) there's a better chance.

I would say that there is always room for qualified people; formally trained or not. I would say that you do have a reasonable expectation after employment with certification and tweaks to your resume to showcase your IT skillset over the years.

The move to offshoring is overblown, IMHO. It's probably more true of the stepping stone type support jobs and probably also true of programmers. I hate but kind of like the myth because it means more lucrative positions for those of us left who do our jobs well.

[Wapsie B]

26. Yeah, that's what I was alluding to.

It seems that in the early to mid 90's someone with minimal background in IT could find themselves trained on the job. But now barriers of entry have been raised in many cases, that there's some required training to get a desired position. I've got a 4 year degree with some IT coursework on the side that whetted my interest in the information aspect of my job. I see a need if for nothing else to provide desktop support for labs. People working in these areas know the specific applications software by whatever vendor they're familiar with. But if you ask them to find a file through Windows Explorer they break out in a cold sweat because they haven't the foggiest idea of how the computer they're using actually works.

[many a good man]

21. It depends.

What kind of IT stuff are you talking about? Desktop support? That's the lowest rung so a cert would definitely help. Not sure if it would make you more money right away.

You should try to talk your management into creating a new job position for you. If you have specialized professional knowledge about an application or suite that is important to your company then you could make a strong businesss case. Certs will help prove your depth of knowledge and roundedness and be a big boost to your already solid reputation.

[Wapsie B]

27. I do have that type of situation right now.

I'm able to do work in that area that I wasn't given time to do before. It would be Desktop support, at least to start. As I answered to Nikki above there are a lot of users in my area that are not familiar with basic computer operations beyond the applications software we happen to use. That's not an unusual phenomenon. Even if someone went through an AAS program the IT focus of most schools is minimal at best.

[seemunkee]

6. I'm doing the same thing

But just buying one exam book at a time.

[Deja Q]

8. Good point.

That way it doesn't come across as being overbearing/daunting/intimidating.

[Solar_Power]

9. All IT will be outsourced to India

so choose another field

[Deja Q]

10. With the advent of the internet, it is an eventual possibility...

Still, where's the harm in trying?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. doubt it. india is already becoming too expensive, i am sure there will soon be a cheaper spot

[seemunkee]

16. But a lot of sys admin work needs to be hands on

[many a good man]

19. Outsourced to India? Where did you get that idea?

Its far from the truth. There's no way any company can offshore their IT department. Mostly it's just programming that's offshored.

(Offshored means its done in another country. Outsourced means you hire a company to provide the specific IT services - domestic. Most people say outsourcing when they are talking offshoring)

There will always be a big demand for people to set up and configue the severs, networks, databases, apps, and work on projects that get things done. A lot of this work is being done by H1-B visa carriers, mostly from India-- as an American you would have a great advantage.

Indians benefit from having fantastic apprenticeship/placement programs. Certification is a big plus but employers look for experience. The Indians get internships and real jobs before they even graduate from school. It pads their resumes and makes them easy to hire.

Americans don't have this advantage. We have to luck into an opportunity to use new skills that don't match our job title, then hope and pray someone will hire us in the new field.

A cert will help make up some what for what you lack in job title or experience. You need to get experience, even if it is just volunteer work. You have to be able to say that I've done this, that, and this in the real world - a production environment.

Getting certs is a great step, but it won't guarantee success. You'll need to work hard. Social skills help a lot. If you don't have them you better be very very good.

[Deja Q]

24. How about a person with a lack in social skills?

[many a good man]

28. Hardest part is getting hired

The person hiring you has to like you and think that you will fit in well with the other people. If you are good, people will overlook your lack of social skills. IT is one area where most workers don't have to have the highest social graces.

I work with a guy who's adult ADHD. Omigod I can't believe the stuff that comes out of his mouth! People have gotten used to him and have come to expect the unexpected when he's around. He can be brutally honest and say things everyone is thinking but wouldn't dare say out loud. We'll never fire him because he's too damn good. He knows Windows servers and Active Directory inside out and now engineers our SAN.

[idgiehkt]

11. can you get them elsewhere, like on amazon.com?

or is this new stuff? I don't think it's stupid to increase your marketability and skills at all. Textbooks are just way overpriced, across the board. Hope you have a good T-day. :)

[SKKY]

12. Hey Hypno, have you looked at getting your Certs in India?

The reason I ask is that a guy who works with me went to India for a 40 days and came back with CCNA, CCNP, and RHCE. It cost him a fraction of what normal state-side training vendors charge. The price included hotel, food, and of course all the training and materials (They supplied him with a full set of Cisco press for the Cisco stuff and Sybex for RHCE). When I get back from the desert in 2010, I'm looking seriously at it. I think the name of the place is Koenig. He raved about it, and from all indications, came back way, way smarter than when he left. Which indicates to me that the training was solid.

[Deja Q]

13. Despite "free trade", it's probably illegal to do so...

Just like getting Chinese-made meds from Canada... or discounted, legal Microsoft products directly from China.

If the Indians would allow outsiders, that'd be cool. But 1.5 billion of their own vs (how many) outsiders wanting in... other countries promote their own before immigrants or outsiders (including Canada), so why should India be any different when the day is done? (Just because the US is different doesn't mean everyone else will follow suit...)

Besides, big corporations are known such as your example) for underpricing things to competitors to not only help their economies but to help themselves as well; with the US workers typically being diced in the process.

Still, if you're for real and they're for real, I'll wholly re-evaluate the concept of offshoring. Maybe there are benefits to Americans, the sort none of us has really seen yet. (I can fathom other possibilities, equally optimistic as I am trying to avoid the pessimistic slant right now... )

[SKKY]

14. You should check out their website...

...it is totally legal to do so. They guy who works with me who went to India is a GS employee, and has a security clearance. No issues whatsoever. I remember now, Koenig is the name and they're a certified training provider for Microsoft, Cisco, ISC2, CompTIA, etc. They do it all. One more thing I forgot to mention- it was him, another student, and a trainer. That was it. No class of 30+ students.

[Deja Q]

23. Dang, thanks!

I put my name into get more info.

:yourock:

[TrogL]

20. Take the ITIL 3 intro course

[Deja Q]

25. I did.

Crash course & same-day test. Failed by ONE question.

[TrogL]

29. Two of the questions in my exam book were wrong

One had Service Operations answers in a question about Service Design.

The other was going on about services "lines". There's no such ITL concept.

[Writer]

22. My hub is not IT, but he is an UBER-geek in the software development world... here's my take.

We springeth from the 90's, we did, and tech fields became saturated with potential employees. After the tech bust, the number of college graduates choosing IT fields dried up, so suddenly the need for labor has outpaced the drop of available employees. The spring chickens of today frankly don't know what they're missing.

Tech jobs are safe in the US for some time... not every piece of equipment or bit of software can be performed overseas.

'Tis a good idea, my dear HypnoToad. Good luck.

~Writer~