First All-Star Survivor voted off.

[lpbk2713]

I didn't expect that. I guess it just didn't settle too good with the others that this one was a previous winner. It looks like from what I saw in the previews that Rudy will have some health issues on the next show. Must be from dehydration.

I'd rather see Survivor than Janet's boobs anyhow.

Edited to remove spoiler info. I didn't consider that beforehand. Thanks.

[lazarus]

1. FYI

Tonight, it's cool, because it was shown all over the country. But I strongly suggest keeping spoiler information out of the subject title in the future. Even now, there are people who TiVo'd it and won't be watching it until later tonight.

Could you please edit the result out of the subject?

And Richard is the Master.

[Seldona]

10. The master?

Alienating everyone in his tribe might make him the master of idiocy, but not the game.

You cannot do this alone, and Richard isn't going to be able to antagonize everyone like he did the first time.

I say he goes first in his tribe.

Must be hella tough to start a fire with only wood during the rainy season.

[lazarus]

18. Heh

Did you see the first season?

Yes, Rich is the best ever. He's playing a seriously deep game right now. Basically, he's out to prove there's no need for alliances from day one.

If anyone can pull it off, it's him. Check out some of the Survivor Insider footage on the CBS website, he's already manipulating the heck out of these people.

[Parrcrow]

2. more of a survivor sucks type post

why is it that none of these idiots know how to start a fire yet!!
:spank:

[lazarus]

4. well, in all fairness

It ain't easy to start a fire in the tropics. And they're used to getting supplies with something to help start a fire, so why work at it?

And Rich knows how, he's just playing anti-provider this time.

[Parrcrow]

6. Richard couldn't start a fire the first time around

I certainly don't take his pompous ass word for it.
Admittedly it is very tough to start a fire. Nevertheless these contestants know that better than we do. I'm astonished that they had not made that signifigant preparation before going out this time.

[Momof1]

3. Hey I saw it, but was on the phone. Could you tell me please.

My best friends dad passed away, I was on the phone with her, and completely missed the last 15 mins.

[Limbought]

5. It didn't break my heart to see Tina go,

but I wish it had been Jerri. I can't stand that bitch!

[TSIAS]

7. I was hoping Jenna would go

I don't have a problem with the rest. Hopefully Rupert and Rudy can hang around a bit longer. I saw in the preview that Rudy was really struggling. For that matter, all of them seemed to be having difficulties.

[annagull]

8. me too, I wanted her to shut up--and I am many miles away

don't quite get why they kicked her off (other than her being an older woman), yet the biggesst mouth gets to stay. Oh well, I guess that's the game. :-)

[lazarus]

9. A couple of very good reasons

First, Tina's a threat. Both she and Ethan are threats, because they've shown they can win.

Second, the whole "already won a million" dynamic came into play, a lot stronger than I anticipated. That was primarily Jenna, though.

They need Ethan for the challenges, so he can't go.

And I guarantee you that Jerri had a lot to do with the choice of Tina.

BTW, Jenna told Tina to vote for Rudy.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Why would anyone want to watch a show where the principle is removing

the one person that might actually save your ass in a a real life crisis? I just don't get it. Maybe this is why everyone votes Republican. It should be studied.

[OKNancy]

13. Nah, people vote Republican

because some Democrats criticize mindless and harmless entertainment.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. What an odd non sequitur

Was that meant as a riposte? It missed its mark.

BTW, I'm not a Democrat and the young don't need more mindless entertainment. It's insidious, not harmless. The only thing it's good for is to show kids how devious and conniving people are capable of becoming.

[lazarus]

25. don't need more mindless entertainment?

So, care to tell us exactly what level of "mindless entertainment" you find appropriate? Or shall we all just start reading Shakespeare (something I'm doing at the present, in addition to being a Survivor fan).

Oh, let's not forget Shakespeare was considered "mindless entertainment" in his day.

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. The only fan of survivor that I know of is a die hard dittohead.

The man's dream is to qualify for a spot on the show. Because I live among sharks like him, I don't need to watch a show that reflects the almost self-destructive nature that pervades our country.

Shakespeare's play on words alone are stimulating to the mind. In addition, Shakespeare wrote to appeal to all classes of people, something which Survivor has failed to do.

[lazarus]

31. well

You know another one who most definitely ISN'T a dittohead. Me.

There are a bunch of Survivor fans on DU. We're also quite intelligent.

Survivor is one of the most popular television programs of the past 10 years. And it doesn't appeal to "all classes of people?"

Which classes of people does it not appeal to? I'm curious what class I'm in.

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. Survivor doesn't appeal to people like me who prefer to see shows

that push the envelope when it comes to creative thinking. Deviousness and self-interest is child's play. Just a different kind of Dallas hosted by a bunch of J.R. wannabes. What is really difficult is to find true leadership that will bring people together in a common cause. Now find me a show that can actually put a group of pre-pubescent self-interested diversified Americans together and show them how they can work together for a common cause, well, now that would be an uncommon, almost impossible.

But Survivor? Yeah, a regular MacBeth, that one.

[lazarus]

34. LOL

So, the only class of people Survivor doesn't appeal to is the class of people Survivor doesn't appeal to.

Yeah, that's, um, obvious.

So why not list some of these mythical shows that "push the envelope when it comes to creative thinking" for us? I'm curious.

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. Pushing the envelope

Certainly can't think of any shows that meet my criteria. The closest I can come up with is a book called, "Profiles in Courage." As for shows, in my "yute" it was tits and ass that captured the masses and in your time, it must be backstabbing politics that captures the imagination. Not a very good legacy from either one of us, I dare say.

Edited for additional info:

Profiles in Courage

"This series was based on the 1956 Pulitzer Prize winning book of the same name by then-Senator John F. Kennedy. Each of the historical dramas covered one public figure who served as a model of virtue and courage under pressure. Each subject took an unpopular stand and persevered in their pursuit of justice and the right path, in spite of the coercion and vilification of the majority.

"This book is not just the stories of the past but a book of hope and confidence for the future. What happens to the country, to the world, depends on what we do with what others have left us." —from the book's foreword by Robert F. Kennedy"

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-3531/

[lazarus]

46. So, a book

No TV shows after all? So you just disdain all television?

Either way, you're insulting a great number of DUers by telling us we're not of the proper class because we enjoy this show.

[LynneSin]

49. You go Laz, I'm on your team when it comes to Survivor

I like some mindless entertainment on TV every once in awhile and Survivor is my thing.

I think Miranda on "Sex and the City" summed it up last week when she was outed for reading tabloid magazines: "I love it, it's my thing, let it go" (PS. Miranda is a progressive, intelligent savvy lawyer"

So to DU Survivor Bashers everyone:

"I love it, it's my thing, let it go"

[lazarus]

50. booyah!

Lynne's in da house!

Been wondering when you'd chime in.

What do you think of my idol, Richard? :evilgrin:

[LynneSin]

52. I haven't seen the first episode

Well, I saw a glimpse of enough of it on Sunday night that Richard is once again strolling around naked.

But the reason I didn't post earlier is because I've been swamped with working the Delaware primaries (which is also why I didn't see it on Sunday or Tuesday night). But I'll be a regular just like you starting Thursday!!!

[lazarus]

53. Do you want a recap?

BTW, remember Survivor Insider, the background video you could pay for at the CBS website? It's free this season! Lots of extra goodies.

[Pithlet]

42. Hm

You would probably be surprised at how many "people like you" watch Survivor. Unless you include the trait of judging others based on what kind of entertainment they like. In that case, maybe not.

[Pithlet]

40. Another non-ditto head here. n/t

[OKNancy]

12. About the fire

I saw several items that could be used to help start fire. I noticed that Kathy had on glasses. That is the best one, but several others had objects that could be used to reflect the sun....just a thought.

[MaineDem]

14. I thought of her glasses, too (nt)

[jean]

15. we were shocked no one thought to

use those glasses. How will anything light up now that they had such a drenching rain?

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. ditto

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Rudy needs to try the bow drill again

[lazarus]

19. The problem with glasses

If they're not the right kind, they won't start a fire at all. For instance, in the first season, BB had an optometrist friend make him a pair of "reading glasses" designed to start fires. They have be glass and have the right focus.

Plastic lenses won't do it, apparently, and most prescriptions just aren't the right shape. They have to be seriously convex.

Just checked out a survival page on starting fires. From the looks of it, they were using bamboo on bamboo, which just isn't going to work:


http://www.geocities.com/aaawildernesssurvival/fire.html
Fire-Plow
The fire-plow is a friction method of ignition. You rub a hardwood shaft against a softer wood base. To use this method, cut a straight groove in the base and plow the blunt tip of the shaft up and down the groove. The plowing action of the shaft pushes out small particles of wood fibers. Then, as you apply more pressure on each stroke, the friction ignites the wood particles.

Bow and Drill
The technique of starting a fire with a bow and drill is simple, but you must exert much effort and be persistent to produce a fire. You need the following items to use this method:


Socket. The socket is an easily grasped stone or piece of hardwood or bone with a slight depression in one side. Use it to hold the drill in place and to apply downward pressure.

Drill. The drill should be a straight, seasoned hardwood stick about 2 centimeters in diameter and 25 centimeters long. The top end is round and the low end blunt (to produce more friction).

Fire board. Its size is up to you. A seasoned softwood board about 2.5 centimeters thick and 10 centimeters wide is preferable. Cut a depression about 2 centimeters from the edge on one side of the board. On the underside, make a V-shaped cut from the edge of the board to the depression.

Bow. The bow is a resilient, green stick about 2.5 centimeters in diameter and a string. The type of wood is not important. The bowstring can be any type of cordage. You tie the bowstring from one end of the bow to the other, without any slack.
To use the bow and drill, first prepare the fire lay. Then place a bundle of tinder under the V-shaped cut in the fire board. Place one foot on the fire board. Loop the bowstring over the drill and place the drill in the precut depression on the fire board. Place the socket, held in one hand, on the top of the drill to hold it in position. Press down on the drill and saw the bow back and forth to twirl the drill. Once you have established a smooth motion, apply more downward pressure and work the bow faster. This action will grind hot black powder into the tinder, causing a spark to catch. Blow on the tinder until it ignites.

[TXlib]

21. Plastic lenses won't do it?

Sure they will.

The problem with plastic lenses is that they scratch more easily.

I've started many fires with plastic lenses.

But my favorite emergency fire starter is a magnesium block with a flint on the back. You scrape your knife on the magnesium, and make a small pile of shavings, and then spark it with the flint. Burns at several thousand degrees.

[jean]

23. Many had necklaces on - why not have a mag block/flint in your necklace?

[lazarus]

28. illegal/contraband

They're searched for stuff like that. First season, someone (B.B.) got clever and brought "reading glasses" that were made specifically to start fires, but that's the last time that's happened.

Also, this is the first time anyone's gone this long without a fire. They're generally provided some way to start a fire, even if it's not easy.

[lazarus]

27. Hmm

Everything I've read says that plastic lenses won't work. They also say the glasses have to have the right prescription, apparently for far-sightedness, not the much more common near-sightedness.

[Tripper11]

20. Thatw as my thought too when I saw her leaning voer helping with the fire

and when Richard smugly intoned that he could start the fire easily, he knows about the glasses is why.
And as far as Richard going alone, I think he already has an alliance set up.

[beyurslf]

24. I think every winner there

will be voted out before any one else goes. I know if I was a non winner there, that would be my strategy.

[lazarus]

26. why?

That's a horrible strategy. Just vote people off for something that happened outside the game?

Someone on one of these tribes is going to figure that out, and use it to their advantage. Probably Rich. He's quite likely to shift the first jury vote his tribe has to Jenna, using just that rationale.

The key to these games is to make strategies involving advancing yourself. For instance, if Saboga loses another challenge, the most moronic thing they could do is vote Ethan off. He's strong and can help win challenges.

Jenna, on the other hand, is a loud mouthed brat who doesn't know what she's doing, and who cost them the first challenge already. Anybody who wants to avoid tribal council would be advised to consider tossing her overboard.

[skippysmom]

30. Stayed up late to watch this

And then found out they are replaying it tonight. Argh.

The jury is still out as to whether I'll enjoy this one as much as past seasons. The problem is, you know all the personalities and all the egos. But it is interesting to see how these various personalities will interact. Like Rupert befriending Rudy.

I think they didn't vote out Ethan because they think Ethan will help them more in challenges.

I don't really care who wins as long as it isn't Jenna, the Amazon skank. I can't stand her!

[Anaxamander]

32. I missed the premiere, but I have some questions...

Did they bring back the guy (Mike, I think his name was) who got his hands burned in the fire that one season? I always thought they should have brought him back because he left before his due.

[lazarus]

35. Nope

BTW, the premiere will be on again tonight, I highly recommend catching it. This is going to be a great season.

Mike Skupin supposedly, according to him, was lined up to be in Survivor 7 and All Stars, but at the last minute they said no.

According to Mark Burnett, the producer of Survivor, Skupin couldn't free up his schedule.

So who knows?

Personally, I think Skupin is wildly overrated because of the way he went out. He'd likely have flamed out a la Rupert had he made it to the merge. People forget there was a strong movement against him on his own tribe (led by Jeff Varner and Alicia Calaway.)

[MaineDem]

37. I think it's being rerun tonight (Tues)

And, no, Mike wasn't back.

[wysimdnwyg]

36. My thoughts <Spoiler Alert>

- I was happy to see Tina go. I didn't like her the first time, and I wasn't looking forward to having to deal with her again.

- Rich will NOT be the first to go from his tribe. He's already got an alliance with Shii Ann. This guy really knows what he's doing.

- All of them are morons. Starting a fire is not that fricken' hard. Knowing full well what they're getting into, you would think they would have been practicing that some. Hell, after getting back from the first one, I would have figured out how to start a fire just to say that I can actually do it. Rudy is the only out there with any idea on this.

- The tribe with the two Robs and Sue (Chapera) is gonna be a lot of fun. Both Robs, Sue and Alicia? Just sit back and watch the fireworks.

- Predictions for final member of each tribe (not my final three, just the last remaining member of each tribe):
Mogo Mogo - Rich - The others will pick each other off, all thinking that no one will vote for Rich to win, thus making him the safest one on the island.
Chapera - Tom - The Robs, Sue and Alicia will be at each others' throats constantly. Tom will just sit back and enjoy the show.
Saboga - Rudy - I want to pick Rupert for this, but I just don't think the others will let him get that far. If they lose the next IC, either Jerri or Jenna will go, probably Jenna. She's already getting on Rupert's nerves, and Ethan will be a much bigger asset prior to any merger.

[markses]

39. I thought it was a great game theory play

on the part of Rupert and Rudy. You basically had three parties of two each. They had to figure out a way to turn that into a majority. They clearly hate Jenna and Jerri, and want them gone post haste (Rupert most of all - he's clearly one of those folks who are resentful against the so-called cool kids, who Jenna and Jerry embody). Voting Tina off - while knowing that Tina and Ethan would vote for Jenna - puts them in a perfect position. Ethan will now join with them, and the three of them will be able to pick off Jerry and Jenna with ease, while maintaining their own position in the tribe. Jerry and jenna will attempt to persuade Ethan that he is the odd man out in the alliance, but he can easily be persuaded to ride the Rupert-Rudy train into the merge, at which point they should have a fairly strong alliance of three.

Could they have done the reverse, and voted off either Jenna or Jerry first? Or Ethan? No, clearly not. First, Jerry and Jenna are both opportunists of first order. If one of them went, the other would ally herself to the Ethan/Tina group, and pose a danger. Ethan will never ally himself to the Jerry/Jenna group, and they probably wouldn't even have him, given his vote for Jenna. If they voted out Ethan rather than Tina, Tina would be a threat to join Jerry and Jenna on gender grounds. Moreover, Ethan's strength will be needed to avoid future losses or rack up new reward challenge wins - Tina would not help here.

On balance, I'd say it was one of the smartest first moves I've seen on Survivor. Rupert and Rudy are now firmly positioned to go into any kind of merge (no doubt there will be a twist on the merge). Jerry and Jenna, barring a real big twist, are powerless now, and probably finished.

[lazarus]

47. exceptional analysis, Markses

That summed it up quite nicely.

How do you feel about Richard's strategy so far? I think he's playing the deepest game anyone's ever seen on the show, to be honest.

[wysimdnwyg]

51. In the 2 1/2 years since he won...

Rich has gone from Survivor God to just a prototype. The other players all think they're better because they learned from him and took it farther. They don't see that Rich is smart enough to take it to another level.

With Shii Ann on board, Rich is primed to oust Jenna at the first opportunity. He'll have an easy time getting Shii Ann to go along with that, and he just has to convince Lex and Colby that it's a male/female thing. Once that's done, Rich and Shii Ann will be able to switch to Kathy and get rid of Lex. They won't lose any more than that prior to the merger. At that point, Colby is too big a threat in the challenges, so he'll go as soon as they can afford it (after it's down to the final six).

I look for Rich to be the favorite right now, and it'll likely be him and Tom in the finals.

[lazarus]

54. exactly!

It's so great to see other people who actually get it.

New nickname for Shii Ann and everyone else who falls under Richard's spell: Hatchlings. :D

I think Rich is going to play the entire season without an alliance, just to prove it can be done that way.

I'm not prepared to pick an F2 partner for him, yet, but Tom is definitely going deep. Never underestimate a good ol' boy.

[Skittles]

41. WHY DO PEOPLE WATCH THIS F***ING SHIT

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY

[lpbk2713]

43. It's a good study on human dynamics.

Like putting brains under a microscope.

[Piperay]

44. Cause sometimes

we need to take our minds off of politics before our head explodes. :shrug: :-)

[lazarus]

48. Hey, Skittles

Care to share with us what you like, so we can take a dump on it?

[lazarus]

45. More about the fire

or lack thereof. From her chat on CBS.com:

linker: Why are all the teams having trouble starting a fire this season?

Tina: You have to have a hard wood and a soft wood to start a fire and we could not find the two opposing types of wood. We could find two soft woods but then couldn't find a hard wood. Or it might be vice versa, I don't know. It's a lot harder than you can imagine.


WindyCityJo: Tina, this has been bugging me. Why didn't Kathy use her glasses to start the fire (or anybody else for that matter)?

Tina: Good question. Actually, on our tribe, Rudy has the lowest prescription pair of glasses and we used his but they just aren't strong enough to start a fire. I'm not sure what Kathy's level of prescription was, but I was surprised that they didn't use them...at least it didn't show her using them.