Bonds says he'll boycott Hall if record-setting ball has asterisk

[cboy4]

The Hall should not be in the business of accepting defaced memorabilia, especially since Bonds has not violated one single Major League baseball rule.

Let's hope the Hall does the right thing.

But I will not blame Barry for cutting ties if the Hall does the wrong thing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3090631

NEW YORK -- Barry Bonds would boycott Cooperstown if the Hall of Fame displays his record-breaking home run ball with an asterisk.

That includes skipping his potential induction ceremony.

"I won't go. I won't be part of it," Bonds said in an interview with MSNBC that aired Thursday night. "You can call me, but I won't be there."

The ball Bonds hit for home run No. 756 this season will be branded with an asterisk and sent to the Hall. Fashion designer Marc Ecko bought the ball in an online auction and set up a Web site for fans to vote on its fate. In late September, he announced fans voted to send the ball to Cooperstown with an asterisk. :puke:

[IndianaJones]

1. that is good. baseball is a joke for their handling of this situation. nt.

[ruiner4u]

2. please..baseball is a joke...

[flvegan]

9. How so?

Please, be specific.

[IndianaJones]

10. Seligs statements and behavior leading up to the record...

hypocrisy for turning the blind eye to performance enhancing drugs for decades. Acceptance of the ball with an asterisk. A complete joke.

[flvegan]

11. Yeah, I can see that IJ.

Kinda like politics sometimes, eh?

[IndianaJones]

12. even his statement after the record was broken was ridiculous. He is attempting to...

salvage his crap legacy. Everyone that knows anything about sports knows that baseball players have taken performance enhancers forever. Rose, Schmidt, Mays, Aaron. Bonds is disliked by the media and many fans, and probably for good reason. But the way in which he has been demonized is disgusting.

[flvegan]

3. Here's the thing

The ball doesn't deserve an asterisk, nor does Bonds.

Ferret out what folks call a cheater, one that takes performance enhancing substances (even those legally given by a doc) and you've got a very small playing field.

When do we start revoking World Series rings based on a player's performance if he tests positive?

On top of that, considering that MLB testing methods are for shit, it's all subjective.

I don't care for Bonds one bit. However, he really shouldn't be singled out just because of the one record. It really needs to be across the board or forgotten altogether.

[cboy4]

6. "The ball doesn't deserve an asterisk, nor does Bonds."

Nor does Bonds deserve to be treated like Hitler.

I think the most disgusted I ever got was watching the Giants play the Astros in Houston. Bonds got beaned, and the crowd cheered as though a serial killer had just been sentenced to death.

It made me sick to my stomach to see adults, standing next to their little boys (and girls) cheering like that.

[IndianaJones]

7. its hatred for the man. the vast majority have no clue about the situation...

other than they hate Bonds.

[flvegan]

8. OMG, cboy4, you're absolutely right. That's what I'm saying.

I don't like Bonds for a number of reasons. His alleged doping is the least of them.

What really sucks, what really really really really sucks is that here's a guy that broke the biggest MLB record there is. Yet, it's a big smudge on the game. Why? Allegations? Nope. Possible cheating? Nope. It's a smudge because of the "better than you" crowd crooning for the head of the king.

Tell you what...I'll sit here and wait for the first person that'll say they'd give up $100,000,000.00 to preserve the integrity of the game, if convicted. Put that paper in front of me. If McGwire is taking Andro, I want 1-AD. If Sosa is stacking ephedrine and -Driol, then get me a bottle of Gaspari M1T. If someone is shooting GH, then I want the designer deal.

The worst part is...it's okay for Demi Moore to get a boob job to help her odds in her job. I see absolutely no difference in that and an athlete shooting juice into his ass for the same reason.

I'm well in the minority here. Wanna guess why?

End doping, end the sport. Hate to say it, but it is what it is.

[cboy4]

13. I know why you're in the minority. You're an

excellent example of how someone can be muscular without taking steroids,etc.

You know a lot about weight training, so your opinion is credible.

What gets me is when people who don't know the difference between a military press and a curl start screaming steroids. They know NOTHING about it.

[IndianaJones]

16. that comparison of pictures is so ridiculous. nt.

[flvegan]

17. You mean like blaming 'roids for the Benoit meltdown?

Ever notice how the MSM dumped that story when it came down to pain killers and anti-depressants?

A sad, sad story that folks could have learned from. Buried because the hype died.

I'm vastly educated on anabolics. I have to be.

Also, you ever notice how when "steroids" becomes "growth hormone" people stop giving a shit? I find that funny as well. Our media has trained us well. "Roid rage" (a total myth, thank you) is good media. It's not educational, though.

BTW, thank you for the compliment. Very kind of you.

[quip]

74. A-Frikkin-men

As if popping a pill can suddenly give one the ability to hit a 95 frikkin' mile an hour fastball 450'!

:grr:

[blockhead]

94. What?

Are boob jobs illegal? Maybe I should take meth at work so I can lay more brick.

[IndianaJones]

4. cboy, there will be some silence on this issue. Hypocrisy may reign when the list...

of users is released.

[cboy4]

5. I know Indiana. True. n/t

[MrSlayer]

14. Waaaaaahh Waaaahh, Fuck him.

I hope writers refuse to vote for him to make the Hall. Cheating crybaby.

[IndianaJones]

15. baseball fan? nt.

[MrSlayer]

20. Semi.

I used to be huge into it when I was a kid but I lost a lot of interest as I reached my twenties. Baseball is a distant third for me behind the NFL and the NHL.

[IndianaJones]

21. so you just don't like Bonds? nt.

[MrSlayer]

33. My dislike for him is irrelevant.

He's a cheat and I have no respect for cheaters. As much as I disliked him as a person I always had a healthy respect for his skills but once he did the roids and the HGH I lost respect for that as well. Here's a guy who would have been a sure fire first ballot hall of famer without ever touching a performance enhancing substance, he didn't need to do it but he did simply because he disliked the acclaim McGwire (another cheater) was getting for his homers. The record is tainted and so is he. Roger Maris is still the single season home run record holder as far as I'm concerned. And likewise, Aaron is still the all time home run record holder. Babe Ruth will always be the Home Run King. I don't think it will matter much in the end anyway because A-Rod (not a cheater so far) will pass Bonds in another 7 years or so.

[cboy4]

27. Well MrSlayer, which drug test has he failed and which

MLB rule has he violated that makes you feel the need to resort to libel?

Cheating? Even the MLB Commission Bud "I'm a moran" Selig disagrees with you.

"As I said previously, out of respect for the tradition of the game, the magnitude of the record and the fact that all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty, either I or a representative of my office will attend the next few games and make every attempt to observe the breaking of the all-time home run record."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070805&content_id=2130809&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Ever heard of that saying MrSlayer? You know, innocent until proven guilty?

It's clear you know very, very little about the game of baseball.

[MrSlayer]

34. Typical cop out from a San Fran fan.

You have no clue about the human body if you think this guy wasn't doing HGH and steriods. And no one in the history of the game ever got better after the age of 35, not just better but way better, way stronger with off the chart stats that they weren't achieving in the prime of their career. I know a bit about baseball and I know a bit about steroids. You're just fooling yourself if you think this guy wasn't juicing. No one's head grows three hat sizes in a year in their 30's without doing HGH. It's just ridiculous to attempt to defend this fraud and expect to be taken seriously. It is what it is. He's a cheater, period. There is no question about it, not to anyone with any kind of objectivity.

[cboy4]

37. Oh I see. Just because no one in the history of the

game ever got better after the age of 35 (according to you), then it's completely impossible.

It's completely impossible that we're not dealing with the greatest baseball player of all time, who may have defied the odds fairly.

You get back to me once Bonds fails a drug test or violates a single MLB rule.

[MrSlayer]

40. Keep hiding behind the drug tests.

You know the truth. Anyone with any sense knows the truth. And you also know that HGH and "The Clear" cannot be tested for. Kudos to you for being a good fan though, I'd probably do the same thing.

[Orsino]

41. Well, it's either drugs...

...or a mad scientist hit him with an enlarging ray. I'm not going to believe in a late-in-life growth spurt.

It's worth a much larger asterisk--but the one on the ball is merely symbolic.

[Dewlso]

18. Oh well....his loss...

There is going to be the asterisk whether he goes in the HOF or not. He was at his peak during an era when steroids went untested and largely overlooked until Jose Conseco.

[IndianaJones]

19. you think an asterisk branded on a ball by an idiot has anything to do with his record? nt.

[flvegan]

24. That's actually not true.

If Bonds has done what's alleged, it wasn't under the radar. BALCO had an almost laughably incredible way to get around any testing. Steroid testing based on a T v E base was begging to be trumped. BALCO might well have altered both counts.

"Steroids" also were well watched. It wasn't until the designer pro-hormones came out that they had to start thinking that it's not all a shot in the ass.

Oh, and growth hormone. How did they miss that boat? Next they'll say that IGF1 doesn't count. Then, they'll ban tribulus, creatine and yohimbe. Just cuz.

Oooooh...who saw THAT one coming.

[Richard Steele]

22. Hey, Barry: Go fuck yerself, you cheating piece of worm shit. You are a STAIN upon the sport.

You, and every other cheating little weasel like you.

An asterisk is more than you deserve. Far, far more.

[IndianaJones]

23. Willie Mays? Hank Aaron? Mike Schmidt? nt.

[Richard Steele]

28. George W. Bush.

nm

[IndianaJones]

52. another casual fan on the Bond's hating bandwagon. nt.

[cboy4]

29. Dicksteele, you're one of the most progressive people

I recognize at DU.

Consequently, I'm disappointed to read that you're not consistent when it comes to Barry, just because perhaps he doesn't play for your team.

Barry has not violated a single MLB rule, not failed a single drug test.

Even Bud Selig says Bonds should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

I think that's a very progressive position.

[Richard Steele]

36. There's nothing at all "non-progressive" about the concept of FAIR PLAY.

Until you figure out what that's about, consider the
disappointment to be MUTUAL.

If you actually care about "progressiveness", you might
want to start smaller. Like considering the company you
are in keeping with, right here on this thread.

Just a word to the wise, y'know?

You have a nice day. Goodbye. :hi:

[cboy4]

38. But there's definitely something "non-progressive" about

convicting someone who, for one thing, has never been charged with an offense.

Never failed a drug test.

Never broke a single MLB rule.

And it's really pathetic that you're so close minded that you're actually condemning me for agreeing with someone who supports Hillary Clinton.

Is that what you were implying? I can't agree with and be friends with someone who supports a candidate you loathe?

This is a shocking side of you that I've not seen before.

[cboy4]

55. *********CRICKETS*********

[IndianaJones]

51. lmao. nt.

[cboy4]

62. He's acting like such a little school girl. It's quite the

spectacle.

[IndianaJones]

65. I find the whole progressive insults to be compliments.

read what the progressives and liberals are saying in GD and GDP.

[sasquatch]

25. LOL!! OMG he thinks he's getting in the hall of fame

:rofl:

[IndianaJones]

26. first ballot. nt.

[cboy4]

30. Now sasquatch, I can't help notice your profile where

you admit to taking steroids.

How does someone like you have the shrunken balls to bash Barry Bonds.

Just curious.

[sasquatch]

31. What, you douche, I take ASTHMA steroids

Not the anabolic BS blimp head takes.

[cboy4]

35. Well wait a minute sasquatch. How do you know what

Barry Bonds takes a part of his weight training regimen?

[sasquatch]

39. It's kinda obvious is it not

[Oeditpus Rex]

32. It's rather an empty threat

Bonds' presence at the induction ceremony, should one be held, isn't required for him to be inducted.

[Vidar]

42. Boycott away, asshole!

[Deep13]

43. "Let's hope the Hall does the right thing."

I'm sorry, what is the right thing again?
:shrug:

[IndianaJones]

44. does not display the baseball. nt.

[GOPisEvil]

45. Can't the ball be displayed without showing the asterisk?

I actually understand Bonds' position. How can you simultaneously honor someone and display an artifact which dishonors him? As for me, in his position, I'd stay above all of that and focus on the honor, but then Barry Bonds does lots of things differently than I.

As for whether Bonds took performance enhancing substances, I think that matter is beyond debate. The real issue is how many other players were taking the same substances. I've heard estimates of over 1000 players having used steriods, growth hormone, etc. I think at some point, we're going to have to declare a certain period in baseball as "the steroid era" much like the "dead ball era". People will have to evaluate records and performances in light of the era in which those performances were accomplished. As for the Hall of Fame and other museums, just present us with facts and let us draw our own conclusions.

spelling edit.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

46. I'm thinking the Hall might boycott him first....

But he will be able to appear magically out of an Iowa cornfield decades after his death.

[dembotoz]

47. I find that i must agree with barry bonds

and the fact that i agree with him
scares me to death

dont like bonds, never has, never will.
But for some damn fashion designer to get away with this crap and to have the hall of fame swallow it.

Ah hell
what do i care
Its football season
GO PACKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[meegbear]

48. Maybe they should show photos like this ...

Must be all those Wheaties.

[IndianaJones]

49. ever seen pictures of Michael Jordan when he was a rookie vs when he retired.

haters are irrational.

[meegbear]

50. Hatred of people being irrational is irrational ...

Stop the irrationality!

[LynneSin]

53. Good - Hall of Fame doesn't want him anyways

:grr:

[cboy4]

57. Yes, why would the Hall of Fame want an incomplete

history of baseball by excluding the the all-time MLB home run hitter?

:eyes:


on edit...typo (changed word from "including" to "excluding")

[IndianaJones]

58. and the greatest all around player of all time. because hes an a-hole of course. nt.

[Ekirh]

60. Not sure if he's the greatest player. .

But with all the a-holes already in the HOF.. he should fit right in (This isn't me insulting Bonds, this is just me realizing the HOF has a lot of aholes in it) :P

[IndianaJones]

63. you are absolutely correct. yet those a-holes are embraced. nt.

[Ekirh]

66. Point taken on that. . .

Look I don't like bonds, and I do think he did something, and a few years ago I probably be on the he shouldn't be in the hall bandwagon . . .

Now I think it's all silly. Maybe he cheated, maybe he didn't.. maybe he's an asshole, maybe he's.. no he's an asshole. but in both categories.. you can't convince me he's alone in it.

So I guess I'm a Bonds Hater who supports Barry being in the hall and think the Hall shouldn't accept the ball if it's defaced. . . woah, that was a mouthful.

[IndianaJones]

68. I will be the first to admit that Bonds is an a-hole. He broke no competitive rules of baseball.

If we are going to accuse him of cheating retroactively, there are a lot of all time greats that need to be added to that list.

[Ekirh]

69. Like I said. .

I don't think he's alone in that category, therefore I can't fairly single him out.

[cboy4]

67. Pete Rose should also be in the HOF....

All of the great players should be included.''

Let the people who go through (and I've been through twice even though I live 3,000 miles away), make their own judgments. But it's nuts to not include Rose and perhaps Bonds.

[Ekirh]

70. Pete Rose was also ban from baseball for life

Bonds hasn't had that happen yet... so Rose still has a huge hurdle to get through before he even makes it into the Hall.

I always flip flop on the Rose issue . . . but the fact he was a great player is undisputable.

[cboy4]

71. I don't have a problem with Rose being banned from

baseball for life.

But you cannot omit history.

Put Rose in the Hall, and include mention of the controversy at his display case so people make up their own minds.

After all, there's a display at the Hall detailing the eight Black Sox players who were banned from baseball for throwing games.

It's all part of history...both good and bad.

[Ekirh]

72. Does my eyes deceive me . .

Or did we flip over from Bonds to Rose so smoothly . . . :P

[cboy4]

73. My point is simply that all of the great players should

be included in the Hall, since the Hall is a living history of baseball.

I'm not implying that Bonds has cheated by bringing up Rose.

[Ekirh]

75. I was just being goofy . .

I wasn't trying a "gotch you" moment

[LynneSin]

76. Well they don't have the all-time hits leader in there

so I guess that's nothing new

[cboy4]

77. Yea, I know they don't have the all-time hits

leader there which is outrageous.

I've been very consistent about Pete Rose.

I have no problem with him being banned from baseball.

But he should most certainly be in the Hall.

Let people make up their own minds about his character when they look at his display in Cooperstown.

[madinmaryland]

54. Barry is an American Hero!!1!!

[Deja Q]

133. Even though he's got green between his legs?

:hide:

[IndianaJones]

56. lots of name calling from the bandwagon haters I see. nt.

[cboy4]

59. It's only a matter of time before someone resorts to

using the N-word to describe Bonds.

[IndianaJones]

61. that is one aspect of the irrational hatred shown towards him. nt.

[SoxFan]

79. It's not "irrational hatred"

It's disgust with a guy who is a disgrace to the game.

He juiced himself up and broke records on the cheap.

He was a world-class dickhead as far back as his days in Pittsburgh.

He is not well-regarded by other players.

Bonds can pound sand.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoxFan]

104. Stay classy, San Francisco

Someone disagrees with your fawning assesment of Bonds, and you resort to insults and allegations of racism. Real classy.

You deserve your pathetic train wreck of a franchise.

[cboy4]

115. HAHAAHA....you accuse me of not being classy, and

then what do you do?

You crawl into the gutter.

I haven't heard you criticize McGwire (a white guy) as fiercely as you're doing Bonds.

Any reason for that BlueDogunclassyNH?

[SoxFan]

118. Because it's a Bonds thread?

I'm as harsh on McGuire, Canseco, Sosa, and Giambi as I am on Bonds when it comes to steroids.

Bonds is different from the other guys (Canseco excepted) in that he has a reputation as something of a jerk. He's rude to fans, surly with the media, and by all accounts not a positive presence in the clubhouse.

If you honestly think that no one considers Barry Bonds to be an arrogant, unpleasant ass, then you really don't have a good understanding of baseball.

[cboy4]

122. What business is it of yours whether Bonds is a jerk?

Huh?

He doesn't play for your team (which purchased a WS this year), nor does he play in your city so its none of your business. It's been my business and my city's business. And none of us care about his cranky demeanor.

I find it fascinating that so many bandwagon fans like yourself always have to stray from the issue and bring up Bond's behavior -- as if it has a thing to do with steroid allegations.

And don't worry. I don't think for a second Schilling is on the juice. :sarcasm:

[SoxFan]

123. "Purchased" a World Series?

Jonathan Papelbon, Dustin Pedroia, Jacoby Ellsbury, Manny Delcarmen, Kevin Youkilis...all products of the Sox farm system, and combined they make less than $2 million a year.

[cboy4]

129. Uh huh, and where did the rest of the $140,000,000 go?

Unreal that you guys call the Yankees the evil empire when you go out and do the same thing.

[IndianaJones]

135. Manny, Ortiz, Dice K, Lowell, Beckett, Schilling...the guys that actually got them there and won it.

[cboy4]

145. *********CRICKETS*********

LOL

[Ekirh]

64. I'm not a Barry Bonds fan..

and personally I think he used something . .

However I think this is all stupid. The guy who won the ball if he wants to defeace it, fine he won it in the auction whatever. . .

If it's defeaced the Hall shouldn't accept it though.

Barry is going to (And should . . as much as I don't like the man) to get into the hall of fame . . maybe he is a cheater... he ain't the only one. And so far he hasn't been caught by MLB if he has.

Maybe I'm just tired of it all. after he hit the home run breaking record . . . I was done with it. What's done is done . . . Bond has the record. . Bond in his early days was great.. Bonds in his later dates (Steroids or not) was great . . . I think it's all just getting a bit silly.

[Rabrrrrrr]

78. You're confused - Bonds will boycott if the hall does the right thing, not the wrong thing.

:shrug:

Fuckin' whiny crybaby.

(Bonds, not you)

[cboy4]

82. How would you like it if you broke the most important

record in a sport, only to be accused of cheating?

That's bad enough, but then the ball that would be going to the Hall of Fame would have an asterisk branded on it?

Bonds has not broken one single baseball rule.

He not whining. He's angry. And he has every right to be.

[Oeditpus Rex]

84. You keep saying Bonds hasn't broken any of baseball's rules

If you were honest, you'd say instead, "He hasn't been caught using steroids or human growth hormone, partly because of baseball's inexplicably and embarrassingly lax policies regarding these and partly because he used a masking agent."

You ignore the people who testified before a grand jury that they witnessed anabolic steroids being delivered to Bonds, saw him use them and heard him talk about using them. You also ignore that the grand jury's investigation of Bonds is still in progress, and it includes not just charges that he used steroids but also committed perjury.

You also seem to forget that Bonds sued (unsuccessfully) to prevent publication of "Game of Shadows," the book by Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada that contains a great deal of damning evidence against Bonds, including portions of the grand jury testimony, leaked by an attorney for BALCO president Victor Conte.

If anyone points out the flaws in your argument, you simply call them "haters" and "racists."

My question to you, sir, is why you allow your apparent adulation of Barry Bonds to put you in such a state of denial.

[cboy4]

85. Well first of all, you're biased because you're a Dodgers

fan, so you simply hate Bonds because he played for the Giants.

Secondly, "baseball's inexplicably and embarrassingly lax policies," in your opinion, about steroids does not mean Bonds is guilty. There have been no hearings that have proven so.

Thirdly, I don't believe witness testimony from shady people who are involved in the underground business of steroids. There are lots of reasons why people are out to get Bonds.

Fourthly, why shouldn't Bonds be opposed to a book that accuses him of lies and damages his reputation and career? You would be just as angry if someone wrote a book and lied about your work performance.

You have no proof that Bonds is guilty of a thing. Even the commissioner of baseball has said Bonds is innocent until proven guilty, and that he's accomplished a remarkable feat.

There's nothing that leads me to believe that you're a racist regarding this issue. But you're definitely a hater, because you're furious Barry has hit many, many homers against Los Angeles. That's no reason to accuse him of cheating.

[Oeditpus Rex]

137. I rest my case (n.t)

[cboy4]

144. Just because lawyers rest their cases doesn't mean

the information they argue is true.

Right Oeditpus?

[Westegg]

80. Clemente vs. Bonds...

On the one hand, you've got a legend. On the other, you have the home run champion who is "innocent until proven guilty." Of COURSE he is! That's a fact. Innocent. Until proven guilty.

I don't know where Roberto's body came to rest.

Nobody does.

But I know where part of his soul resides, more than 30 years after his passing. With me. Within me. Always.

That's all I have to say about Clemente vs. Bonds.

[cboy4]

83. All I have to say about Roberto Clemente is that I'm

sad I wasn't around to have had the honor to watch such a remarkable player.

What a tragedy we lost such a great, great athlete and humanitarian. :(

[Indi Guy]

86. Boo hoo...

Bonds should lobby baseball to put asterisks behind all steroid record holders.

[cboy4]

87. Nothing you just said made any sense. Are you

liquored up?

[Indi Guy]

88. Bonds is a scapegoat for McGuire, Sosa & the like...

Bonds should protest their records.

[cboy4]

89. You realize you're not making sense, right?

If anything, Bonds is a scapegoat for fans who are angry he broke Hank Aaron's record.

Why should he protest McGwire or Sosa's records?

Bonds has surpassed them in all home run categories.

I have no idea where you're going with this unless you articulate your point in sober fashion.

[Indi Guy]

90. OK

Do you profess that Bonds has not used steroids?

[cboy4]

91. Bonds says that he has not used steroids. And absent

any proof such as a positive drug test, or MLB accusing him of doing so, I believe that Bonds gained his bulk/strength through hard work -- just like everyone else who gains muscle without cheating.

[Indi Guy]

92. Bonds was supplied supliments by BALCO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Laboratory_Co-operative

[cboy4]

93. Believe me, I'm aware of the allegations. But do you

really think MLB would allow Bonds to keep playing?

Bonds says his accomplishments are not tainted and I believe him.

But because Bonds is not friendly with the media, and because he doesn't sign autographs all of the time and because he insisted on having his own leather lazy boy in the locker room and because he's arrogant and doesn't always get along with his teammates....people outside San Francisco believe he's cheating.

As a Giants fan, I don't care if he's a model citizen or not.

All I cared about was how he could help the Giants to win.

[YDogg]

95. As a (Bush) fan, I don't care if he's a model citizen or not.

All I cared about was how he could help ('Merika) to win.

- - - - -

Just a matter of degrees, I suppose.

[cboy4]

99. ............

[IndianaJones]

I told you. Completely irrational group think. nt

[Pavulon]

96. He brings SHAME to the game and the men who play it..

Hope he is charged and admits what he did in a tear filled press conference. Sack of shit.

[IndianaJones]

97. idiotic. nt.

[cboy4]

98. Why would you be so ignorant regarding a baseball player

who:

(A) Denies knowingly taking steroids

(B) Has never once failed a drug test

nor

(C) Violated a single MLB rule? (Just ask Bud Selig who offered Bonds his enthusiastic congratulations and stated all Americans should be considered innocent until proven guilty).


I can only imagine what you say when you're selected for a jury where you live:

"Umm, you know your honor, I don't need to waste my time sitting here with everyone else...listening to testimony from the defendant or his lawyer, because I've already made up my mind examining all of gossip I read."

This has nothing to do with steroids and everything to do with the fact that people like you just don't like Bonds because he's unfriendly to the media. Awwwww :cry:

Right Pavulon?

[Pavulon]

100. Marion Jones never failed them either

the chemical was not traced at the time. However the list of customers is. All those balco guys turned states and are releasing customer names.

I dont like bonds because he is a cheating bastard. He will be caught and will be shamed for what he did.

ANY player who took the balco product should be stripped of their titles and be forced to return compensation to those who paid them.

I never failed a drug test either..That is a bullshit statement.

[IndianaJones]

101. idiotic. nt.

[cboy4]

102. Last time I checked, Marion Jones admitted to

to the offense.

Bonds says his record is not tainted and there's no reason to doubt him.

Here's a photo of you when you're asked to examine the evidence:

[IndianaJones]

105. You are not discussing with sports fans. nt.

[Pavulon]

109. Sports Fans hate cheaters

they screw it up for everyone. Perjury is a great thing. Just a matter of time...

Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.

Federal prosecutors charge that the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative, known as BALCO, distributed undetectable steroids to elite athletes in the form of a clear substance that was taken orally and a cream that was rubbed onto the body.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/03/MNGGFA0UDU65.DTL

[IndianaJones]

111. How do you, a non-sports fan, define cheating? nt.

[Pavulon]

119. Injecting anabolic steroids

into your body to build muscle mass is a really good start!

[IndianaJones]

121. so, nothing about the rules. Steroids is cheating. What about amphetamine....

are they ok performance enhancers?

[Pavulon]

124. Nope..Not ok

enhancers ruin the game. Users, no matter who they play for, should get a minimum 3 year ban and lose any titles they hold.

Cheaters fuck it up for everyone. It trickles down it to college and even high school sports.

There is NO JUSTIFICATION for tolerating doping players.

[IndianaJones]

130. what if its not against the rules? nt.

[cboy4]

114. And which charges have been brought against Bonds?

Which MLB rule has he violated?

How many drug tests has Bonds (the greatest baseball player of all time) failed?


If Bonds were guilty of anything, they'd have him by now.

:loveya:

[Pavulon]

116. Patience...

perjury, hindering, all are on the table...It took a while with marion and will take a while with barry.

Even if the "rules" said he could dope up, it will not be accepted by the fans.

This is, and always will be, bond's legacy.

(pete rose was a great player, barry is a hack)

[cboy4]

125. Ohhhhh. So your excuse now is that it just takes

awhile. Uh-huh.

[Pavulon]

126. Marion took a bit

and OJ seems to be having a problem finding the real killer...

Bonds was doping and he will have to confront that eventually.

[Pavulon]

127. dupe

hair trigger on the post button..

[Pavulon]

117. dp

dp

[cboy4]

110. Yea. I was always under the impression one could

not be a sports fan and still be relatively logical.

[Pavulon]

108. Jones Admitted to it and to lying about it..

I doubt him because he blew up in size. He lied about it.

Maybe "his trainer made him do it.."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594

other great source...

[MadHound]

103. He's assuming that he will be inducted into the HOF.

Frankly if I were him I wouldn't make such an assumption. He certainly isn't going to get in on the first ballot, and as time passes and the facts of Bonds career surface, it will become increasingly unlikely that he'll get in. Good news for him though, his reputation might become so low that the "defaced" ball might just be pulled from display as being too much of an embarassing reminder of a dark time in baseball.

[IndianaJones]

106. Guaranteed first ballot. nt.

[MadHound]

112. Doubtful, very doubtful.

Hell, McGwire didn't get in on the first ballot, despite a record setting career, all due to allegations of his use of artificial enhancements. Bonds is a much more controversial figure than McGwire is in this regards, thus his induction will be much more contentious.

I think one thing that hurt McGwire was his radical change in body shape after he retired. He went from a big, bulky guy to just a shadow of his former self in the space of just a couple of years. If this happens to Bonds(and I imagine that it will), it will further harm his chance of getting into the HOF, because people will take that as one more sign that he juiced.

[IndianaJones]

113. McGwire is not in the same zip code as Bonds. Bonds is arguably the greatest ever.

McGwire is a borderline HOF'er. No comparison whatsoever.

[MadHound]

120. You're saying that a man who set the single season home run record,

Who set the record for most home runs for a rookie, who averaged the most home runs per at bats(1/10.61) is a borderline HOFer? Wow, you do set your standards high. You're also going against virtually all of the experts who were stating that McGwire would have been a shoe-in except for his use of enhancements.

Bonds has waaaaay more baggage than McGwire does, and I seriously doubt that he'll get in on the first ballot, or ever. There is a huge stain on his name, and those who look at his career objectively, not the fans, are the ones who will be making the decision. In most objective circles, Bonds is regarded as one of the greatest cheats of all time. Why do you think that the Giants got rid of the man? Why nobody else is touching him? Hell, he was just on Olberman last night, lying his ass off again. He stated that like Bonds, Hank Aaron was more prolific in the second half of his career than in the first half, trying to justify his own "miraculous" defiance of age. Trouble is, if you look at Aaron's career stats, you will see that he did indeed decline during the second half of his career, unlike Bonds.

Sorry, but outside of San Francisco and a small group of Bond fans, most people who follow baseball hate Bonds and the way he has tarnished two of baseball's sacred records. Those who vote for the HOF inductees feel the same way, and I doubt that he'll get in for years and years, if at all.

We'll see in five years, for I doubt that Bonds is going to play another game. He has too much baggage for him to be hired by anybody, and at this point he's box office poison. Oh, and don't be surprised when you see Bonds in two or three years. Those chipmunk cheeks will have sunk in, the body-wide swelling will have stopped, and he will look like a shadow of his former self. That's what happens when you quit juicing.

[IndianaJones]

128. which experts....lets look at his career:

lifetime .263 average....not bad, but HOF worthy?

8 of his 16 seasons, under 100 hits....HOF worthy? no

7 - 100 RBI seasons

Good slugging pct

So, he hit a lot of solo home runs.

Defense not HOF caliber. So, does a one dimensional player get in the HOF? Its happened. Does it make him a guaranteed HOF'er. No. Certainly not first ballot.

Barry Bonds is in the same category as Ruth and Mays. All-time great. Hitting for average, hitting for power, running, fielding, throwing....all time great.

McGwire is not in the same league as Bonds.

[MadHound]

131. LOL, let's look at those experts

NICK CAFARDO
Globe baseball reporter
"As a Hall of Fame voter, I reserve the right to withhold my vote until I have enough evidence concerning allegations of McGwire's steroid use. I have until Dec. 31 to make that decision. Obviously, McGwire should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer based on his statistical accomplishments, but like Barry Bonds, if the high number of home runs came as a result of an artificial boost, then his numbers are tainted and therefore he would not be worthy of induction. Anyone who is inducted under those circumstances disrespects the feats of the many players who accomplished records naturally." <http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2006/07/30/should_mcgwire_get_hall_bid_in_07/>
<http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20061127-1545-bbo-halloffame-mcgwire.html>

As most of them state, McGwire would have been in on the first ballot, excepting for his alleged juicing up. This is the same problem that Bonds is going to face. Look, I realize that you're a fan of Bonds, but the fact of the matter is that more than likely the man cheated to get where he was. Hell, he's letting his best friend from childhood rot in jail on contempt charges because he won't flip on Bonds. How can Barry live with that?

You might as well except the fact that while you may be endeared to the man, most of us who aren't Giants or Bonds fans simply think that he's a cheater, and he doesn't belong in the HOF. Why do you think that the ball has an astrick on it? All that we're waiting for now is for A-Rod or somebody to wipe Bonds name from the record books and restore some dignity to the game.

[IndianaJones]

134. You said most experts. For every expert you can find, I will find one that does not believe...

he is a hall of famer. That is the definition of borderline. A survey by USA Today of HOF voters before the vote found 3 in 4 would not vote for him. Some of those because of steroid controversy and some because his statistics did not warrant it. Without the steroid controversy, would he have gotten in? We'll never know.

Take the same poll before Bonds vote, and you will find none questioning his statistics. Thats because McGwire is not in the same league as Bonds. Will there be some that don't vote for him due to the controversy? Perhaps. He will get in on the first ballot. And that will piss off the Bonds haters to no end.

McGwire is a one-dimensional player with no tools outside of HR and a lot of walks. Bonds is in the conversation for greatest player of all time. Comparing the two and using McGwire as basis for Bonds not getting in is ludicrous. Fans don't vote for the HOF. Otherwise, lots of guys wouldn't be in there.

[MadHound]

138. Well, we'll just have to wait and see.

I have no doubt that Bonds won't get in on the first ballot, and I seriously doubt that he'll ever get in. His physique will shrink rapidly as he goes off the juice, just like McGwire's, sooner or later the grand jury testimony will come out, and one of these days that "friend" that Bond's hung out to dry in jail will get fed up and talk. I'm betting that it will all unravel before the five year mark gets here, and nobody, absolutely nobody will vote for him to get into the HOF. Frankly, that will be the correct decision, because a cheater such as Bonds, who juiced his way into stealing two of the sport's most sacred record doesn't deserve any sort of recognition. This is why the Giants canned his ass this year, and why nobody will pick him up next year. It is a collective way of telling Bonds that the sport doesn't approve of what he did.

I'll see you in five years, and I expect you'll be all outraged at the unfairness of it all:eyes:

[Oeditpus Rex]

139. The Giants dumped him because he was no longer useful to them

Bonds is a liability in the outfield and on the bases. His only value to the Giants last year was as a crowd draw as he approached Aaron's record, and it worked — they drew 3,223,202, seventh in baseball and 95.8 percent capacity of AT&T Park. Look for that to drop next year to about 2.5 million.

Meanwhile, ESPN has coined a new verb:

Bonds says he's been unfairly targed for MLB's drug issues

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3092460

[cboy4]

141. Oeditpus Rex, the Giants have drawn 3-million-plus

every year since the stadium opened in 2000.

Don't make it sound like they suddenly drew 3-million this past season because of the record.

I'll be renewing my season tickets even though Bonds is gone, as I'm sure most of the 28,000 other season ticket holders will be doing.

[ironflange]

107. If he boycotts, let's hope W* will take the hint

And boycott himself from the history books.

[JVS]

132. What, he'll refuse induction?

[IndianaJones]

136. no, he won't attend the ceremony. nt.

[Blue_Tires]

140. fuck him....i'll call him on that bluff

[cboy4]

142. What a meaningless post Blue_Tires. You're

incapable of challenging him on anything because you don't know what you're talking about.

Even you would admit that.

[Generic Brad]

143. Will he show up if it is slathered with growth hormones?

We may know if the baseball is the size of beach ball at his induction ceremony.

[cboy4]

146. Listen to the Twins fan make comments about steroids!!

MINNEAPOLIS -- Minnesota Twins pitcher Juan Rincon, who emerged last season as one of baseball's top setup men, became the highest-profile violator of Major League Baseball's new policy on performance-enhancing drugs.

Rincon was suspended Monday for 10 days after testing positive for an undisclosed substance, the fifth player to be suspended this season. Rincon will make a brief statement to the media before Tuesday night's game against Cleveland at the Metrodome.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2051595

[Generic Brad]

149. You must have me confused with someone else

I may live in Minnesota but I am not a Twins fan.

[FredScuttle]

147. Amen

So when will we be able to go into Cooperstown and deface all of Babe Ruth's baseballs because he never faced black pitching and fielding?

[ellisonz]

148. "Tiny Balls"