Is Tom Brady the new Barry Bonds??

[madinmaryland]

Since it is being determined that the Patriots are cheaters!!

[IndianaJones]

1. no comment.

post that Bonds pic. I love it.

[madinmaryland]

4. This one?

[IndianaJones]

32. Yes. Thank you. nt.

[sniffa]

2. woah, woah, woah. there's a big difference

tom has actuaLLy won championships.

[malta blue]

3. once a cheater - always a cheater

:hide:

[madinmaryland]

5. By cheating. Maybe those championships should have asterisks!

[sniffa]

16. maybe so

i think suspected cheaters shouLd get the * as weLL.

sosa
mcquire
ripken

[madinmaryland]

26. They probably will.

Don't forget Raphael Palmeira wagging his finger in front of congress!

I never had any relationship with that steroid!!

[meegbear]

6. I didn't know he was using steriods?

Who knew :shrug:

[madinmaryland]

9. Cheating is cheating! Doesn't matter how you do it.

[meegbear]

34. Then how should Barry Bonds be 'punished'?

Besides going in the record books? :sarcasm:

[IndianaJones]

52. Tell me which rule he broke and I will tell you. nt.

[edbermac]

7. Aw, how much money did you lose betting against the Pats?

Boo-hoo :cry:

[madinmaryland]

10. I don't gamble. Unless you count driving down I-95 between

Baltimore and DC!

[Beer Snob-50]

8. is it determined that tom brady cheated??

i don't think so!!! and while we are at it, i would assume most teams do the same sort of thing but due to the success of the pats the other teams brought up these charges on them.

[madinmaryland]

11. Apparently the Commissioner believes they have..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

..snip

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, according to league sources.

NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.

..snip

[Beer Snob-50]

18. the commissioner believes that someone on the pats did

not tom brady.

[MissMillie]

13. Even if signals were taped

I'm not sure Brady was involved... so I'm with you. I don't see where Brady gets the blame for this.

And even if they taped signals this week, that doesn't mean that they taped signals in 2002, 2003 or 2005.

[Beer Snob-50]

19. in this situation success breeds contempt

now if we are talking about the skankees, then they deserve all teh comtempt thrown at them.

[jobycom]

15. Most baseball players take steroids, too.

So you've just cleared Bonds. Or condemned the Pats. One of the two. :)

[Beer Snob-50]

20. i have never condemned barry bonds

because of that reason.

[jobycom]

30. That's cool.

That's my take on it, too, for the most part, but I don't think the NFL or the majority of NFL fans are going to be so casual about this. Goodell emphasized during the off-season to each team that he would be cracking down on this type of thing. And you know how it works when a team is hot for a long time--people salivate at the opportunity to bash them. Yankees, Cowboys, the Clintons... I guess irrational hatred means you've arrived.

[SoxFan]

12. Here come the Colts/Jets/Chargers fans

Have your fun now. You can reminisce fondly when you're watching the Pats in February!

[madinmaryland]

14. They are going to cheat their way to the Super Bowl again?

[SoxFan]

21. As opposed to Poulian, right?

The Colts cheat in a different manner. Their GM, Bill Poulian, is on the Competition Committee, and evry time a rule proves inconvenient for his club, he simply changes the problematic rule.

A few years ago, teams with aggressive defenses (mainly New England and Baltimore) were shutting down Peyton Manning by jamming Indy receivers near the line of scrimmage. Poulian pitched a tantrum and got the league to institute a rule that prohibits corners and safetys from being too aggressive with Peyton's precious wideouts.

Poulian also has a history of going into other team's stadiums and acting like an abject clown, but his standing in league circles makes the other clubs reluctant to do anything about his antics.

[madinmaryland]

24. Is changing the rules cheating?

:wtf:

The rules get changed for everyone and are passed by a vote of the owners. If someone decides to circumvent the rules, that is called cheating.

[LeftyMom]

29. Unless you're playing Calvinball, changing the rules to benefit yourself is cheating. nt

[madinmaryland]

31. Ah yes! The greatest sport evah!!1!!

:rofl:

[jobycom]

22. Is that when they'll be on trial?

Cheating in a professional sport is more than "cheating." It could also be criminal fraud. Don't make light of it, this could be bigger, by a lot, than Vick's crimes. Vick's fans defended him, too, and made light of it. Fans and supporters never view a crime the same way a neutral observer does.

[Telly Savalas]

60. They're going to televise the charity golf tournament this year?

[Bassic]

17. I missed that story

How exactly did he cheat?

[ProfessorGAC]

23. They Taped Defensive Coaching Signals

It is against the rules, but i don't think it provided any competitive advantage. (Just my opinion.) It was a stupid thing to do, because now they're in trouble and it probably has never contributed to their success.
The Professor

[Bassic]

37. Agreed

Defensive signals tend to change periodically anyway.

[jobycom]

25. Geeze, what if they were cheating when Bledsoe was Quarterback?

How bad does that make him look, since he still couldn't win? :rofl:

[NewJeffCT]

27. Is it Tom Brady - or Bill Belichek?

and, everybody that is aided by the Pats' coaching staff - the assistant coaches, and every player on the roster.

[madinmaryland]

28. In effect it is everyone.

Though it is generally the quarterback and the head coach that get credit for either the win or loss. Hence, that is why I chose Brady, but it could have as easily been Belichik.

[IndianaJones]

35. Brady and his statistics were the biggest beneficiaries. nt.

[NewJeffCT]

51. The whole team benefits, though

while the QB normally gets the majority of the blame following losses and credit following wins, it is still a team game where everybody has to contribute.

[IndianaJones]

56. I agree. nt.

[WilliamPitt]

33. Only for people whose football teams suck.

Everyone else puts the call-stealing on the coaching staff.

[madinmaryland]

38. Though if it "America's Team" that had been accused of this

there would probably be more posts on DU than when Paris Hilton was lighting up DU!!1!!

And they would be the most vitriolic posts seen!

BTW: What team has been to the Super Bowl the most?

[WilliamPitt]

39. Bills, Cowboys, 49ers, Steelers, Broncos, Packers, etc.

Not in that order. The Pats have been to the Super Bowl six times; the Steelers have won it five times.

Did you complain like this last year when Miami purchased recordings of Patriots defensive call signals, and used them to beat the Pats 21-0?

Should I search DU for your indignant commentary about that?

[madinmaryland]

40. I had not heard about that.

Am I to assume they purchased videos of previous games and tried to interpret signals?

[WilliamPitt]

41. Here

ESPN talk-show host Colin Cowherd had dedicated a portion of his program — and even took phone calls — about a report in the Palm Beach Post saying the Dolphins had purchased audio tapes of New England games. The story said they then used those tapes to pick up quarterback Tom Brady's cadence and audible calls, so they could scheme their blitz packages around his protection calls and pick up his audibles.

The Dolphins won the game 21-0, sacking Brady four times and holding him to just 78 yards passing.

"If I knew the signals, I wouldn't be telling them. I'd be stupid," Miami linebacker Zach Thomas said. "You need to slap me if I tell y'all that I figured out their signals. Because I'm not the smartest guy — I don't win no Trivial Pursuit and I'm not very good at Jeopardy. I'll tell you what, if I knew their signals, I'm definitely not telling you guys. I'm a poker player. You can't show your hand.

(snip)

The NFL, which fines players for not wearing their socks in rulebook fashion, has said it will not investigate.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/2006-12-13-brady-audio_x.htm

Not the same as what the Pats did - what the Pats did was clearly worse - but it's in the neighborhood.

[madinmaryland]

42. On edit, this is what I found out...

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2006/12/stealing_signs_.html

..snip

"What the Miami Dolphins do is this - they have a coach who studies the game tapes, the television tapes, to pick up the signals from the opposing quarterback," he said. "In fact, you can go out and buy something called network iso-tapes that people at home don't see, to get additional audio.

"There is nothing illegal about what Miami did. However, the Patriots got caught doing something early in the year they weren't supposed to be doing. They had a man on their sideline dressed in coaching attire with a video camera who was presumably videotaping the other team's signals. You can't do that. They were warned. If it happens again, they're going to be disciplined."

..snip

Realistically there is no comparison between the two. Isn't that what game films are for? To study and learn about the opponent? There is nothing in the rules against that. What NE did was against the rules. If they don't like the rule, then get it changed, but don't act the current administration and ignore the rule!

[jobycom]

47. Not jsut against the rules, but Goodell had emphasized to every team

during the off-season that the NFL would be watching for this and punishing strictly, which makes it more serious, and more questionable. The question has to be asked, too, why Belichick would still do it after being ordered not to and warned that it would be watched for? Was he so uncertain that his team could win without that edge? Is his coaching strategy so tied to cheating that he can't coach without it? One would hope not, but one has to wonder.

Then his press conference: he looked like Tony Snow! "I can't comment on an ongoing investigation."

Just two days I ago I was shaking my head in awe of the Patriots. Now I'm shaking my belly as I laugh at them! :rofl:

[madinmaryland]

49. Maybe Belichek added a "signing statement" to that rule,

that allowed him to ignore the rule!

:rofl:

[jobycom]

55. .

:spray:

Or just ignored the court ruling against unauthorized spying.

[madinmaryland]

57. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!1!!

:rofl:

[jobycom]

45. Cowboys--eight times. Next in line, Pittsburg and Denver with six.

Cowboys are alone with most appearances, tied with most wins with 49ers and Steelers. Though I hear the Patriots are going to change their name to the Stealers, so it could get confusing...

Sorry.

[madinmaryland]

46. You are correct.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[jobycom]

43. You mean, like the Patriots without video taping abilities?

:P

[WilliamPitt]

44. We'll see, I guess.

The Chargers on Sunday should make for an interesting test of the theory.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

36. I'm pretty sure Tom Brady wasn't behind the cameras.

The Patriots organization, yes. Brady, no.

[jobycom]

48. No, Brady was behind center, calling plays based on what the people behind the camera discovered.

I'm pretty sure that Joey Harrington or David Carr would look like the best quarterback in the league if they always knew what the other team was going to do.

[SoxFan]

50. Yeah, ok

[madinmaryland]

53. .

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

58. This is hysterical!

Should rank as the "get a brain morans" sign of the Sports forum!

Can you find the grammatical error?

[jobycom]

54. Need a tissue?

:shrug:

[bluedigger]

59. Some thoughts on Patriotgate

First, I'm a Pats fan, and I am deeply embarrassed by this event. It seems clear that the Pats are guilty of violating the spirit and letter of the rules - blatantly. So blatantly, in fact, that one wonders at their chutzpah(sp?)! Or maybe, just maybe, they actually thought they were within the law...As many sportswonks have pointed out, they were very unlikely to gain any significant competitive advantage in-game. There are plenty of adjustments and issues to deal with in a 12 minute halftime, without adding the gee-whiz technology of videotaping and decoding defensive signals into the mix. And it would be pretty easy just to get a guy into the stands to do the same thing in safe anonymity if one was purposefully cheating, wouldn't it? Now using that video to prep for the next encounter would be logical, though. If I were the Pats, that would be my defence, I think, weak as it is.

As far as prior offences go, the Packers apparently accused them of the same thing last year, didn't they? And Goodell took what action? That's right, nada, zero, zilch! I think anyone who ever set and then ignored a curfew for their kids can see where I'm going here. A rule unenforced is bound to be ignored, and boundaries will always be tested. Doesn't absolve the Pats, but it does impact my third thought.

Punishment - who and how much? Personally, I think Bill should sit out a game (after appeal no doubt - when do we play those hapless Jets again?) But before heads roll, think about this. If the worst is true, and the Pats have been gaining improper in-game advantages by cheating, then every player and coach on their sideline must be aware of it, from the very beginning. That makes each and everyone of them compicit in cheating. And oh yeah, all the former coaches and players as well. Every fromer Pat still in the league is guilty, including Man-genius and Romeo Crennell. While a suspension of Romeo might be a mercy for Browns fans, it just seems to be a little far-fetched that they all have kept mum up to now, doesn't it?

[madinmaryland]

62. Very interesting.

Simply put a forfeit of the game would be a strong message. Since it was something that was definately violated in the jets game, then it should be forfeited.

[bluedigger]

63. I could live with that

IF they can prove that it was the key to their winning the game - and without a confession, ("How I did it!"), from the participants, that seems unlikely. Otherwise that seems a little draconian in a 16 game regular season to me. After suspending Bill, I would go along with a loss of a draft pick - even a first rounder if Goodell really wants to send a message. There's a lot of talk of Kraft doing a pre-emptive suspension in-house, as well. (Which would imply he was unaware - hmmm...)

[MrSlayer]

61. No. But let's see how he does without knowing what's coming.

It's a lot easier to play the game when you know what the defense is going to do. Let's see how he fares in a fair game.

[WilliamPitt]

65. The Chargers will be a serious test

As a Pats fan, I hope we whip ass...and can then remind everyone that we're a good team no matter what kind of obnoxious useless bullshit the coaches pull.

[MrSlayer]

70. I agree.

The Chargers are salty as hell about last year too. They are going to bring it.

[bluedigger]

64. Brady's to blame?

Two guys in a boat fishing. First guy pulls out a stick of dynamite, lights it, throws it in the lake. It goes off and up the fish float. Second guy says "Hey, you can't do that - it's illegal!" First guy pulls out another stick of dynamite, lights it, and hands it to the second guy. "You gonna bitch, or fish?"

[BlooInBloo]

66. Obviously not. There's something different about them I know not what.

[IndianaJones]

69. Ones a white a-hole and ones a black a-hole. nt.

[TroubleMan]

67. No, they never proved that Bonds was cheating. The Pats on the otherhand.....

:hide:

[Redneck Socialist]

68. Good Simmon's piece on the hoo ha

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070912

Simmons is a big time Pats fan, but he's pretty clear eyed on this.