My lovely luncheon with a racist homophobe.

[trof]

Recently made some new friends. Miz t. met the ladies through a women's club. An English couple (nice people) who vacation here (gulf coast), and a half-English couple. John is from Minnesota. Which doesn't have that much to do with the story, except that the English are notoriously polite.

OK...we are friends with a lot of Brits. I first met John ( the Minnesotan) at another luncheon at some Brit friends' home. Miz t. and I were kind of the token Yanks. We're used to filling that roll. Our good friends, Tish and Arthur, have eddicated us a lot about customs and speech. We are conversant and familiar with torches and loos and lifts and tellys and spanners and "puds' and offside front wings. We (more or less) speak the language. We "blend".

When I first met John, it took me about three minutes to decide he was the most boring human being I had ever had the misfortune to meet. He's in his mid-to-late 70s. He comes on like a retired college history professor, but I learn that he worked in the petroleum industry. He talks...incessantly. Usually with his head down, into his chest. No, he doesn't "talk". He makes pronouncements. Every word he utters, every phrase, is delivered with the gravitas, the ring of authority, of someone who is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that he speaks the gospel. Period. There is no arguing with him, because he is THE authority.

Today, in my home, with the asshole's feet under MY table, I was treated to "Well...yass...San Francisco...no, I couldn't live there. Too many hippies and homuhsexyuhls. It's a terrible place to live. I think Ahnold will straighten them up.
Blacks...yass...we should've put them all in boats and sent them back to Africa right after the Civil War. There was a movement to do that. Too bad it didn't come to happen. Do you know that 25% of all blacks in the United States are either IN jail or have BEEN in jail. Criminal element. Did you know that (???) studied English skulls and African skulls and the African skulls were considerably smaller? He filled 'em with sand, and the African skulls held considerably less sand that the English ones. They just don't have the brain power...blah-blah-blah."

During this word from on high, the English guy was just nodding "mmm hmm, I see, mm hmm". Relatively non-committal.

My momma raised me to be polite to guests in my home. She also explained to me it was bad form to discuss religion and politics at the dinner table. This has become a severe test.

In the process of serving plates, Miz t. and I step out into the kitchen.
"Look, I'm being 'polite', but this guy is not respecting our home and our space. I'm going to walk in there and tell him he's a racist, homophobic son-of-a-bitch and tell him to leave my house."
"Honey, please, PLEASE, don't start something now. We'll never have them here again. I promise."
"I'm not STARTING something. He's WAY over the line, and I am PISSED!"
"trof, he just doesn't know any better. You do. They'll be gone soon, and we never have to see them again."
"mutter...grumble...%#* *%# OK"

I've never been to his house, and will not. Miz t. has, and reports that he has a framed, signed, photo of * on his coffee table.
<Gomer voice> "Surprise, Surprise".

Now I feel like a complete wimp.
And I'm pissed.

End of rant from a complete coward.
:-(

[madmax]

1. What a world!

Don't be too hard on yourself trof. You would go to the wire if it really mattered. Fighting with that ignorant shit in your home wasn't worth the mess.

[trof]

5. Thanks, madmax.

I still feel like a gutless wonder.
But I understand Miz t.'s feelings about turning a (hoped for) pleasant afternoon into a confrontation.
:shrug:

[Mobius]

49. I have the solution!

Send him Gay Porn Magazines and Ebony subscrptions! :D

[Kamika]

2. I just dont get some ppl

Like EVEN if you have these opinions how can you talk about them at a table where you don't know the ppl, it's crazy, I'd never go on what an idiot Bush is etc etc etc with ppl whom I didn't know were all democrats.. I'd feel embarassed

[LZ1234]

14. I learned the hard way.

I did say something at a table about Bush a couple weeks ago. Oh my! Did I raise some hairs! We were answering a question on the president's responsibility (general question regarding any president) given to us on a worksheet and I took it one step further, leaking out my feelings about this one regarding his not telling us the truth. I assumed we all felt the same way. WRONG! I had 5 others telling me how wrong I was, how they couldn't believe how many liberals there are, that what we're doing in Iraq was part of God's plan, that Bush is mistaken for being arrogant, etc. Unbelievable. I did respond to each of those comments respectfully but it did leave bad feelings.

[Piperay]

17. Me either

I have had some people make racist and such comments in my presence like they 'think' I would agree with them! :wtf: I just don't see how anyone gets off with that kind of thing, just ASSuming that everyone thinks the same(!!!!) and will say nothing! :argh: Their arrogance and or stupidity is unbelievbale. :mad:

[trof]

18. THAT'S my problem.

By remaining silent, do you acquiesce?
Or is it just "good manners"?
bummer
:-(

[Piperay]

21. I usually end up

saying nothing, being polite but feeling lousy about myself later (for being a 'wimp'). :argh:

[Terran]

23. trof, an answer

IMO, too many people (white people) do acquiesce to racists out of politeness or fear of 'starting something'. People like that need to be confronted and told their faces what's wrong with them. I know it can be difficult, and I've been guilty of letting it slide many times myself, but less and less so as I get older. By preserving 'good manners,' you do imply that you agree with the jerk.

Dirk

[trof]

29. See?

That's EXactly how I feel!
I kept the peace at home.
That's more important to me than "making my statement".
I have lived with, and respected her, for 35 years.
I ain't gonna mess with it now.
But I still feel soiled.

[arcane1]

22. a classic trait of the narrow-minded

I've seen more than my full share of it, too

I tend to keep quiet about "controversial" topics until I know what kind of group I'm in, but then again I have a working brain

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. You weren't a coward

What good would a confrontation have done? It would have been right to call him down if your other guests were youngsters, undecided in their opinions; then you'd want to let them know that you felt such behavior was wrong, wrong, wrong! Your British friends I'm sure understood you taking the stiff upper lip route.

[displacedtexan]

4. In the end you did the right thing.

Don't you just want to tell people like that that it's a crying shame that no one ever cared enough about them to teach them any manners?

[arcane1]

6. he needs to read "The Mismeasure of Man"

by Stephen Jay Gould. He goes deeply into those skull-filling experiments, and many many more like them, and shows clearly the bias and pre-determined prejudices of the scientists involved in those farces.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

37. That's a great choice!

In fact, send it to him as a gift. Since you refrained from an outburst, and are presumably still on speaking terms; he might actually read the book and learn something...if he doesn't suffer from hardening of the brain, anyway.

[WoodrowFan]

44. YES!

I want to add another vote for Sagan's book. I couldn't believe someone STILL thought that stupid "science" experiment was valid. Sagan tears it, and other such "tests," to pieces.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

52. You mean Gould, I think...

or did Sagan write a book along the same vein?

[trof]

7. Thanks guys.

The support here gets me a little misty.
<sniff>
Miz t. is reading over my shoulder, and she appreciates your comments too.
She is still VERY appreciative that I didn't go ballistic this afternoon, but that's little solace for me.
Doing the "right" (if it was) thing doesn't always make you feel good.
:-(

[madmax]

9. You did right for Miz t.

I think you're a wonderful husband. ;) I've got a goodie like you, too. Hi Miz. t :hi:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

8. Trof, my mom is a complete racist...

She said the N word the other day, and I totally lost my lid. She gets mad when she sees black people on TV, and she's always griping at me about hanging out with "those people." And don't even get me started on the way she talks about gays even though we have a couple of family members who are gay. At least that guy's not your father, Trof. I'm sorry that had to happen in your house, but I agree that you should have been able to kick that bastard out of your house. But you're not a coward. Sometimes taking the high road is the best way. You might have alienated some people besides just him. And for sake of manners, you did do the right thing. If it were just him, and not everyone else, I would have said go for it, but since your other friends were there, that probably wasn't the time.
Duckie

[madmax]

11. My Mom is 92 never hated anyone

Taught me to treat people as I wanted to be treated. No qualifiers.

[trof]

12. Thanks, ducks.

I can not remember a more difficult decision.
What I learned:
I have more self-control that I thought I did.

[fudge stripe cookays]

42. You too Duckie?

My entire family used the N word growing up. My mom wouldn't let me watch "Roots." She didn't think I needed to see it. She always called Carter "That stupid peanut farmer."

I finally got away from all that in college, and when I came home, I told my mom that if she used the N word in front of me again I'd walk out. I can remember watching 'Mississippi Burning' years ago, being moved to tears, and trying to tell her about it. "What do I care?" she said, "It was just a bunch of niggers." I was so furious I didn't speak to her for a week.

When she'd use the N word, I'd ask her about "nice" blacks that she worked with. "Well what about so and so? Or so and so?" "Well, they're different." "HOW are they different, mom?"

I finally conditioned her to understand that it's wrong, and she quit using the N word. She's finally understood why it's so bad. I'm in the process of teaching her about gays. She still calls them "Fags" or whispers the word "homosexuals." I've said, "Mom, just call them gay, for God's sake."

If only more of us could break free of these environments and make a difference. :toast:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. It's enough for this homo to know

you could have kicked his racist homophobe candy ass across the street if you wanted to.

Besides..I know you and MizT can cook..let the fucker eat boiled meat! :evilgrin:

[trof]

16. I wanted to.

What I really wanted to do was coldcock him with our ostentatiously over-large pepper mill.
That's what I really wanted to do.
:grr:

[Liberal Veteran]

13. My home, my rules.

Step over the line and I'll show you the door.

[trof]

15. You married?

[Liberal Veteran]

55. Gay and "married" for 14 years.

Rudeness in my home is still something I don't tolerate.

[Rowdyboy]

19. As disgusting as it is, as a host, you have responsibilities....

Get him out as quickly as possible and NEVER waste a moment's time with him again. What a perfect waste of good oxygen.

A :toast: to you for your patience and long-suffering. And a :toast: to Missus Trof for successfully civilizing you.

Sumbitch like that is too old to re-educate and too worthless to waste time slugging.

[trof]

24. yeahbut...

I feel like I came to a gunfight with a powder puff.
I play by "my" rules.
He's too effing ignorant to do the same.
:-(

[Piperay]

20. I wouldn't

have said anything either. I was taught to be polite, refined and civil, unfortunately other people who come into a person's home and say such stuff apparently weren't brought up that way. :-(

[Djinn]

26. you don't need to be rude

to say "excuse me but I find your opinions on XYZ ignorant and offensive and would prefer that you didn't express them while in my home" and it doesn't need to be a confrontation - if the person spewing the ignorance doesn't shut up or gets mad then they are being confrontational and you have every right to throw them out of your house.

I'm quite a aggro/highly strung/passionate/eloquent/rude/ranting (pick whichever you think fits) person so if I hear someone loudly repeating their perjudices I'll tell them where they can stick it and I don't care if I'm in my own home or in public the only place I might be more restrained is in the house of a friend if the social miscreant was also a friend of theirs in which case I'd simply say "I'm sorry but I find your opinions offensive" and find someone else to speak to.

[trof]

30. Sorry, Djinn

Your culture and mine are just miles (or, at least yards/meters) apart.
I have some close Australian friends. I understand (a bit) how they would operate in similar circumstances.
This, I guess, is a cultural thing.
Maybe even a cultural Southern thing.
Mannuhs wuh veh impawhtuhnt in mah upbraing-in.
;-)

[trof]

31. Oh yeah...

"excuse me but I find your opinions on XYZ ignorant and offensive and would prefer that you didn't express them while in my home"

That would be rude.
;-)

[Djinn]

39. true

though I don't think it's a Australian/non Australian thing - my boyf would probably glare at me if/when I spoke up and is always telling me I shouldn't have said this or that - just different upbringings and personalities I think - will freely admit that I could manage a wee bit more tact and diplomacy and that sometimes it is the better option - you're way more polite than me! :-)

[put out]

25. No, not a coward. Civilized, polite, cultured.

He was part of a couple, you say? Was she sitting there wishing she was in a distant galaxy, far away and long ago?

It is very difficult to have civil conversation with people who say things like that. An ugly scene during a meal is ugly. However. I will not ever understand why people feel free to say nasty and hateful things in a social group and expect them to be accepted. And by not commenting on these crummy remarks, do you condone them implicitly?

Not much help here. I hope it didn't spoil your good meal. At least you get to live with a nice person. His mate must be in a waking nightmare.

[trof]

27. She plays cello.

She is, from what I have gathered, a very educated, talented lady. Plays cello professionally in a local symphony.
She appears to hang on his every word.
They married late in life.
First for her at 50-something, third for him, at 60-something.
That, alone, may tell me something?

[put out]

28. Tells much.

I was hoping she was saying to herself "shut up you insufferable fool". Maybe she was. You could keep company with her, but she might not exclude her Mr. from mixed-sex gatherings. Shoot.

[Kat 333]

35. "She appears to hang on his every word"

How scary. Two people who think it's perfectly ok to go well beyond rude in the company of casual acquaintances and they somehow managed to find each other.

This obviously is how she regularly responds. If not he wouldn't Eveeen be behaving in such a manner. Unless he enjoys bearing the wrath of an extremely livid female.

You could have done either (tell him how you feel about his comments) or (ignore them on the promise this couple would never, ever, return to your home) and would have been acting appropriately. Offending anyone that off the wall isn't a worry but offending your wife would have been. Of course you did the right thing.

[Alenne]

32. People who do this

do it because no one ever calls them on it. Everyone just sits there in silence. Makes them feel like you agree with them.

[put out]

33. You are right.

I measure my responses to these folks. Dang, it probably does seem like assent to some people. I always hope stony silence gets my point across.

[Alenne]

38. Your response should be measured.

You don't want to come across as crazy. I try to always let people like that know I disagree or that I am uncomfortable with racist or homophobic speech. I want people to know I am not okay with that so they won't do it around me again.

[Spider Jerusalem]

34. This bloke sounds a right bloody wanker.

Can't blame you for wanting to give him what for, but I have to say I admire the obvious effort it took to exercise restraint. And I'd hardly call it cowardice.

[populistmom]

36. You would have been in your rights to stand up

I know a lot of women like to play nice, and sometimes I've been guilty of it to, but for the most part, when it comes to strong principles, I don't play nice and tell it like it is. I had to do this with an extended family member (grandma's husband is very similar to this guy) and it caused a bit of an uncomfortable rift (and my husband thought I went over the line), but sometimes you just have to stand up regardless of what your significant other thinks when it really means something to you. Relationships don't have to mean giving up your inner self.

[underseasurveyor]

40. Politeness has it's place.

Like when I'm in someone else's house, I can respect their home and their views to a point. Politics can get heated but they are entitled to their opinion and heated or not I don't mind discussing it. If the conversation turns to "f*gs ~n~ n***ers" then that is the time I excuse myself and leave. If they ask me why I am leaving early, I tell them flat out and pull no punches as to how digusted I am as I'm walking out the door.

Now when this crap rears it's ugly head in my house? That my friend is another story. At the first derogatory word I yell, "HEY!" (that startles em and then I continue in a calm voice) 'I don't allow that kind of talk in my house and in the future you will refrain from using racist, bigoted slurs or else you'll have to leave. I do not tolerate that kind of language or views in my house.' (many people apologize at that point for their offensiveness)

More often than not the conversation then settles down to tolerable levels, yet the under lying tide of my disdain is apparent and the offender is usually quite noticeably uncomfortable. When and if they ever return they are mindful of their tongues.

You don't have to be polite in your own home when it comes to bigots. Ever! It is your house.

It isn't easy to do at first but believe you me not only will you feel tons better about yourself, it gets easier and easier to speak up not only in your own house but out in public places too. In the mean time, don't beat yourself up too much but next time say something. You'll be glad you did :-)
0.02

[shimmergal]

41. I'd probably have done the same thing, but. . .

it's true that if you don't call them on it, bigots like this think everyone agrees with them.

If you knew Ms. T and the other couple also found it distressing, the best way to meet it would be with humor. If someone could have come up with some witty remark that made the old asshole look way ridiculous... He might have simmered but I'll bet he'd be more cautious next time before carrying on like that with people he doesn't know well.

Prejudiced people don't always respond to a reasonable request to stop spouting hate talk, but NOBODY likes to be made fun of.

[GOPisEvil]

43. "I just kicked the ass of a racist homophobe."

Somehow, I don't picture Mz. t allowing you to do that. Although, it would have made for a great subject line.

You did a fine job of keeping up appearances. You can show your face proudly around town. Imagine if the guy had you arrested for "pepper mill assault". Oh the shame...;-)

[arwalden]

45. I'm Going To Have Nightmares About This Now

<shudders>

<goosbumps><crawling flesh>

Creeps me out.

-- Allen

[terrya]

46. That jerk sounds just like Richard Nixon

On the White House tapes, Nixon held forth some of his "charming" views about gay people and African-Americans. And those tapes proved what a vile, despicable human being Nixon was.

I still can't believe that in the 21st century, people still hold primitive, hateful views about homosexuality and race.

Terry

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

47. Holy shit!

You had dinner with my father!?. Wait - my dad doesn't have a british accent, and he hates the Britts also...

[Vitruvius]

48. Mid-to-late 70s? He's too near the end of the road for you to waste

your breath. And he may well be more-than-a-little senile; it's VERY common for the semi-senile to lose the ability to conceal their racist bigotry (and act like decent human beings -- outwardly). Which is a real problem for people of color working in nursing homes, according to one of my cousin's kids, who works in one...

If it's any consolation, the idiot will -- in all probability -- soon be judged by a higher Authority.


P.S: The clown who did the cranial capacity studies faked his data. Blatantly.

[beyurslf]

50. If you didn't say anything you have more control than I.

He would have finished his dinner on a paper towel sitting in the front lawn.

[trof]

51. Well, blow me down!

Miz t. just got a call from Susan.
To recap: Susan & Roger were the English couple.
Susan said how much she enjoyed the afternoon, blah blah blah.
Then she said "I really wanted to talk to you and trof more, I hope we can get to know each other better. It seems that once John (the jerk) gets started, no one else can get a word in edgewise."

So, Miz t. took a deep breath and said "Susan, I want you to know that trof and I do NOT hold the same views John does about race and sexual preference. trof was so angry at one point that I thought I was going to have to lock him in the kitchen."

Susan said she was very pleased to hear this. They do not share his views either and thought it was "ill mannered and very very strange that he would think this was acceptable luncheon conversation". They don't know him very well, and think he may be "a bit dotty".

I am so glad she called, and I feel better now.
:-)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

53. I'm glad to hear that Mrs T's

friendship won't suffer because of that dingbat...
You might still want to send him a copy of "Mismeasure of Man". :-)

[geniph]

54. I can't tolerate that kind of talk in MY home

Hell, I barely tolerate it if I'm in the home of the person who's using the offensive stereotypes. There's a middle ground between outright confrontation and saying, "You know, I find that kind of stereotyping very offensive. I'm extremely uncomfortable with this; do you mind if we talk about something else?" and then quickly change the topic to something inoffensive, like gardening.

I am SO not a confrontational person, but I'll call someone on that kind of talk. I can't bear it. You should have heard my husband a few years ago when he overheard some of his kids' friends talking about "fags" in our house. He read them the riot act - said what they said in their own homes was not his business, but in our house, we don't tolerate people talking like that. John's no more shy with adults. I'm a bit less blunt, but I still won't let anyone talk like that completely unchallenged. NO way will they leave my house thinking I agree with their offensive racism and homophobia.

I wouldn't tell him he was a racist, homophobic son-of-a-beech, but I guarantee he'd stop that kind of talk in my home.