I'm watching the HBO movie "Elizabeth I" right now.

[Writer]

How is it that she's being addressed... is it "Mum?" "Mom?" "Ma'am?" I know it's typical for queens to be addressed this way. I just can't quite catch what it is.

[piesRsquare]

1. I read a book today...

...that mentioned that Elizabeth I had a "penchant for cat burning". :wow: :scared:

[EFerrari]

4. Really? What was the book? I studied her for years and never

came across that. :wtf:

[Darth_Kitten]

15. Probably not if you read a british history book.....

love the British but I wouldn't trust their historians.....look what they did to the reputations of Richard III and James II.

Richard III was possibly one of the most maligned english kings (Elizabeth's grandfather was possibly the one who murdered the Princes in the Tower, his own brother-in-laws if I'm remembering this correctly, yet Richard was the one blamed)

Just my say.

[EFerrari]

25. I read primary sources for years but never ran across any

cat stories. Does anyone have a ref?

And sure, the princes were probably killed by Henry. He stood to gain the most.

HA! Are we geeks or what? :)

[sarge43]

32. Richard III's problem is Billy the Shake did a number on him;

turned him into the iconic Wicked Uncle. On the other hand, he made that monomaniacal psychopath, Henry V, the ultimate Noble Hero - hard rep to beat in both cases.

66% chance Hank 7 did those kids. Dick had them and the Woodvilles pretty much neutralized with the Titus Regius. No reason to kill 'em, just keep 'em out of sight, out of mind. If they were killed during his reign, quite possible it was done by an overenthusiastic courtier trying to make points. If they were still alive the evening following the Bosworth Field confrontation, they weren't 24 hours later.

"HA! Are we geeks or what?"

At least it isn't Star Trek geekery -- this time.

[sarge43]

12. Yes. What book?

She certainly attended the bear and bull baiting contests of the time. Cats as witch's familiars were burned, but I don't recall that witch trials were in fashion during her reign.

She was a lot of things, not all of them pleasant, but she wasn't a sadist.

[EFerrari]

26. No, she wasn't. She loved to hunt but in all my reading

I never ran across anything that would indicate sadism. :shrug:

[GirlinContempt]

2. Ma'am

One addresses the queen as 'mum' at ones own peril.

[EFerrari]

3. That's right, it's Ma'am. " Mum" and "Hey you" is right out.

lol

[GirlinContempt]

5. Even ma'am is a little overly familiar

however forgivable as it covers her close aides and lords, not the general hoi polloi

[EFerrari]

6. Agreed. And all the movies that are made about her are about

"humanizing" her which involves blurring or outright ignoring the class structure at the time.

They even had laws about who could wear what. This wasn't a "Mum" society. lol

[GirlinContempt]

7. I don't understand why they can't humanize her

behind closed doors and maintain protocol when the doors are open, if you will.
It's not impossible to humanize the woman behind the mask while showing people the mask of class and rank structure historically.

[EFerrari]

8. Not impossible but very difficult. She was probably one of the

most important minds of her time. And movies are movies. :)

[GirlinContempt]

9. Yeah, movies are movies

I just demand a ridiculously high level of realism to confirm what I already know :P

[EFerrari]

10. There was never a moment in her whole life when someone wasn't

trying to kill her.

Everything she did besides survive was icing. And she did A LOT!

:toast:

[NashVegas]

13. Watch the Cate Blanchett Version Sometime

She was robbed of an Oscar.

[EFerrari]

27. I did. It was sort of horrible and true, if you know what I mean. n/t

[Darth_Kitten]

14. Her father was one of the cruelest bastards around.

n/t

[EFerrari]

24. He needed a male heir to stay in power. Yes, he was.

And Elizabeth inherited his political acumen and her mother's as well. She was a survivor and an incredible stateswoman.

[Darth_Kitten]

29. He cold-bloodedly murdered innocent people....

in his bloated alpha-male quest to get a son. He can rot in hell (if there is such a place) for all I care.

I'm not a big fan of the Tudors.

[EFerrari]

30. Not at all a fan but they did produce Elizabeth.

:)

[sarge43]

11. Ma'am, pronounced British style Mum.

Current correct form is upon introduction "Your Majesty", after that "Ma'am".

[EFerrari]

28. Ah! So the short "a" is elided into a "uh".

When I visited London, it took my ear 24 hours to adjust. Some guy from Manchester asked me what time it was and I said, I'm sorry, I'm an American, I don't speak English. :rofl:

[sarge43]

31. Been there and so forth

I had one of those "failure to communicate" moments with a Cockney cab driver -- very bizarre sensation to hear the words, but not understand them.

[cobalt1999]

16. on a side note...

Don't you just love the historical series and films that have come out recently? Rome was fantastic and fairly historically accurate.

[sarge43]

17. Yes I do.

I especially like that we're given some detailed idea about how ordinary people lived and dealt with the events - very rare in historicals.

And lordy, the sets and clothes - the Italian touch.

[supernova]

19. So sad they cancelled Rome

:grr:

I really loved that show!

I knew about the lead plumbing but not that women wore ARSENIC for face powder! :P The things we learn the hard way. *sigh*

But yeah, Rome was brilliant. So of course it couldn't stay on the air.

[sarge43]

22. Arsenic was used in face powder right up to the beginning of

the 20th century. Check out the pharm section of a turn of the century Sears&Robuck catalog. It'll make your hair stand on end.

Well, I think they ended it at the right point otherwise the story would have had to go into Augustus's reign. While it's one of the most important in Western history, not much uproar and mayhem until the end of his life. We have I, Claudius for that.

[Faygo Kid]

18. Is it worth renting?

I love the historical stuff, and hate the bad historical stuff.

[sarge43]

20. Both Rome and Elizabeth I are worth it.

Yes, there are inaccuracies and anachronisms, but I think both catch the spirit and 'feel' of the times. Mirren is always worth watching; her take on the Tilbury speech is superb. If you get it, pay attention to Jeremy Irons (Dudley). He's perfectly in character during the scene, but he's also admiring a fellow actor at the top of her game.

[Faygo Kid]

21. Thanks. Have you seen Amazing Grace? Thinking of that one, too.

Like I said, love the historical stuff. Not a slasher movie type of guy.

[sarge43]

23. No, I haven't.

Thanks for the heads up. Sounds terrific and it's going in the queue.