Question about Hogwarts' teachers (nothing at all about book 7)

[TechBear_Seattle]

Are Hogwarts teachers allowed to marry?

As I was reading book 7, it finally hit me that none of the teachers is ever mentioned as having a spouse. Some are old enough that they are perhaps widowed (McGonnigal) and others are young enough that perhaps they have not found someone yet (official canon holds that Snape was 30 or 31 at the start of the first book.) But most of the other teachers would, one would think, be married, with husbands and wives also living at Hogwarts; but there is no mention ever of a Madame Flitwick or a Mister Pomfrey. Not in The Prisoner of Azkaban, when the school is under siege, not in The Goblet of Fire during the Yule Ball, not anywhere in the events The Deathly Hallows.

What really strikes me as odd is, the teachers represent some of the brightest and most capable witches and wizards in England. I would think they, more than the general population, would be epxected to have children.

Why is this? Do Hogwarts teachers have homes outside of the school, where Mr. Sprout raises the little Sprouts and waits for his wife to visit for the two months that school is out? Do families live on school grounds but have no contact at all with students? Are the teachers vowed to celibacy? Or is this just something that Rowlings never got around to explaining, like how the Minister of Magic is selected?

What are you thoughts?

[JoDog]

1. A student's POV?

I always presumed that (at least in the beginning) Rowling was focusing on the school from a student's point of view. Remember when you were younger, and were surprised to find out that your teacher had a life outside of school? Maybe the lack of backstory was sort of a salute to that delusion. Since the entire story was told from a student's perspective, and the average kid isn't that interested in the ins and outs of teaching staff scheduling and whatnot, that wasn't included.

Also remember, the teachers probably had greater freedom of movement than the students. So the idea that they would only be able to see their families while school was out may not hold. It's possible that Mister Pomfrey is alive and well, living in Hogsmeade with a business of his own, and he and missus spend time together on the weekends. In addition, the only house we saw up close and personal was Gryffyndor. As you said, it is possible that house mistress McGonnigal is a widow (I estimate her age somewhere in her mid-60s). But the exsistance, location and general personality of Madame Flitwick may be well known to the members of Ravenclaw. Heck, she might even send them cookies regularly.

It is one of the holes in the saga, and I'm sure there's a lot of fanfic out there having fun with it!

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Ah, I forgot about Hogsmeade

Why else would Britain's only Wizarding-only village be immediately adjacent to Britain's only Wizarding school, if not to provide a home for non-resident teachers and staff?

Obvious. Too damned obvious. :banghead:

What got me thinking was the last few chapters of Book 7, which brought to mind the Yule Ball. That would have been a perfect time for Professor and Madame Flitwick to put on the phoenix, so to speak. Your theory of student perspective is one I thought of, but again, the silence is intruiging..

[liontamer]

2. i think minister of magic is elected like everybody else

And the teachers don't spend all their time in the castle. Snape has an off campus home, dumbledore must have one as well. and even on campus there's probably room to have a family that doesn't mingle with the students. Hogwarts grounds are fairly large and they are all magic (remember goblet of fire tents). I think it's just never mentioned because Harry doesn't care (we lose a lot of info based on what harry doesn't pay attention to)

But I just got my copy of book 7 so don't mention anything about that book.

[meegbear]

3. Maybe they're all ho-mo-sexuals of the worst kind ...

look at Uncle Arthur.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Well, Madame Hooch certainly seems quite the tomboy

But that is probably just the actress who plays the role. :hi:

And given Rowling's tendency to portray a character's personality through their name, you have to wonder about someone named after cheap booze.

[jobycom]

7. And Horace Slughorn

God, what was she saying with that name?

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. I thought that was fairly obvious

Slugs are big, fat, slow and make easy targets. A slug's "horns" are actually eyestalks. At the first sign of trouble, a slug withdraws its eyes into its body.

The name, to me seems to fit the character perfectly. Now, about the teacher with a drinking problem....

[XemaSab]

18. "Hagrid" is supposedly a Scottish term for

"Hung over."

Which fits well, methinks. :D

[jobycom]

6. On a teacher's salary? Who would marry them?

Seriously, though, interesting point. I'd say that it was a typical student's POV, but there are never any kids mentioned, either. With the number of professors in the Order, you'd thinks someone's kids would have joined, or that there would be a teacher's kid somewhere as a student. Teacherss kids always stand out at school. And Harry met some of the teachers outside of school, with the Order, for instance. I can't think of any mention of spouses or children. Although, as I say that, something is nagging at my memory... Something about someone's spouse dying long ago... Can't recall what I'm thinking of, though.

All in all, the teachers existed only at Hogwarts, with a couple of exceptions. That is a typical student perception.

[Neoma]

9. Rowling mentioned this in a interview or somewhere.

But the teachers just do not mention their spouses.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. I found a similar quote from Rowlings

At a Q & A "chat" in 2002, she is asked if any of the teachers have spouses. She replied yes, but details were being kept secret "for good reason, you'll find out latter."

Book 7 made no mention of teachers' families, and now it is too late.

[Neoma]

11. She might explain later.

[Lisa]

12. cool question!

I had also been wondering a bit about this. After all, only a few of the profs mentioned in the books are housemasters (and presumed to live in residence to supervise their particular group of students). I had assumed that many, if not all, of those faculty members who had a "room" at Hogwarts would be keeping main residences somewhere else, at Hogsmeade or even as far away as London (with all the magical transportation techniques demonstrated, commuting shouldn't be a problem). A prof who wasn't part of the on-campus supervisory staff might only stay overnight on particular days (like if they had an early class the next day), or be available during exam periods for student coaching, grading, etc.. before going back to their families the rest of the time. Friends who attended British boarding schools (and colleges like Oxford) have told me that this is the usual arrangement, now or back when JKR was in school (though in Victorian times having a lot of faculty living on campus with their families would have made more sense, due to less flexibility in transportation, etc. -- see Kipling's "Stalky and Co." stories).

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. Ah, thanks for the info

I know next to nothing about how English boarding schools operate except for a few stories where... well, let's just say that Rowling was probably not using those kinds of stories as a model for Hogwarts. :toast:

I have to keep reminding myself that Rowling and her UK audience have a totally different paradigm for education.

[Lisa]

14. a friend of mine attended such a school ...

They aren't all posh like Eton and Harrow -- hers was a fairly run-of-the-mill place, mostly middle-class kids. She was a boarder, because her folks had divorced and it was either that or have her stay with various relatives all the time. I wonder if Hogwarts took in "day students"? A lot of her friends didn't actually live at the school, but with their families in the nearby area. I forget whether JKR mentioned this in any of the earlier books.

For another look at present-day British boarding schools, check out Ruth Rendell's "Talking to Strange Men" -- she's a mystery author who set that particular story at two (fictional) schools, one of them a traditional type, and the other more progressive. Dividing students into "houses" (they live with and attend class with the same people), and having "prefects" selected from the older students who provide supervision and act as mentors, are features that show up in the Potter books. Rendell's book mentions the practice of "fagging" (the older students making the younger ones perform chores for them, and physically punishing them for real or perceived infractions) is now discouraged in the school system, just as fraternity hazings are increasingly being frowned on at American colleges. JKR has Hogwarts following newer, more politically correct policies (for example, the Moody-imposter is reprimanded for punishing Draco by turning him into a ferret and bouncing him up and down). Though one gets the impression that the Slytherins wouldn't mind going back to having the older students bossing the younger ones around!

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. I don't think there would have been day students

Quite a bit happens at mealtimes, such as the announcements at the Start Of Term Feast. And I don't recall anything being said about day students; while Harry could have missed meeting staff and teacher spouses, it is unlikely he would have not noticed fellow Gryffendors heading home each night.

I'm more curious about kids who live in Yorkshire or Wales or Scotland. Do all of them head to London to take the Hogwarts Express? Does the Express make other stops? What about children who live in Hogsmeade, do they merely show up at the train platform around 6:30 or so and head out with the others when the train arrives? So many questions from the Fannish Inquisition.

[Lisa]

16. John Bellairs managed to avoid those kinds of questions ...

... by implying that American wizards don't have a Hogwarts-type setup at all. In the series beginning with "The House with a Clock in its Walls", which also involves an orphaned boy, the wizards seem to be self-taught (like the pre-Civil War warlock who is haunting Lewis the orphan), or are in one-on-one apprenticeships (like the Amish girl who is trained by an older relative, and who then goes on to give Mrs. Zimmermann her start in magic). Mrs. Zimmermann later spends some time in Europe and gets a doctorate in "magic arts" at the University of Gottingen, but it seems that the other wizards in their 1940s Michigan town don't have much formal training. They do have to perform a major piece of magic in order to get into the local guild (which masquerades as an association of conjurers). The guild polices itself, but of course the problem is that there are always people around who do their own thing and don't even join the guild (kind of the same problem with the UN, international arms treaties and nuclear regulatory agencies ... the people who are signing up and coming to meetings aren't likely to be causing trouble anyway).

As one might expect from this system, there is quite a difference in levels of skill (no standards like NEWTS or OWLS), and the motives which people have for getting involved in magic vary quite a bit. There doesn't seem to be anything like a nationwide organization (let alone one affiliated with the government) that helps identify and school young wizards. Assuming that the frequency of wizards in the general population is similar to the rest of the world, that implies that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Americans walking around who don't realize that they have an aptitude for magic!

I seem to recall that JKR does mention that some British wizards opt for home schooling, but doesn't seem to go into it in detail.

[Hekate]

17. Hogwarts is a "total environment" sort of school; day students would miss too much

My family never had anything to do with private schools, much less boarding schools, so the concept was a new world for me and my husband when we sent our son to a boarding school.

Our son's school had a tradition and ethic of self-reliance and community-building -- the students actually did most of the maintenance and there were few staff aside from teachers. Hot water for showers was only available if you did your bit by chopping wood for the fire. The students lived two to a cabin. Classes were small and study was intense.

They had no day students, because everything the school was about existed 24/7 in that environment.

I imagine Hogwarts is like it in that one respect: in order to learn most of what the wizarding world thinks is important, the young ones need to be in residence.

Hekate