Need help with cat politics

[tularetom]

We have a lot of critters around here. Two horses, three dogs, one large bull we are boarding, and a bunch of barn cats. None of them are a problem. But we also have five indoor kitties, a mama cat and her litter of three plus one orphan that our son saved from becoming coyote food several years ago. The cats have always gotten along fairly well and a kind of informal pecking order has developed with the mama cat at the top, the outsider at the bottom and the three babies jockeying for position in between.

After years (like 8) of relative tranquility, things took a drastic turn for the worst last winter. The two male babies began terrorizing their mother, chasing her all around the house and beating the snot out of her on an almost daily basis. Some of the fights were scary to see and hear. It's even worse because the mother weighs 6 lbs and one of the "babies" weights in at 22, the other at about 12. We'd come home and find fistfuls of white cat fur on the floor in the hall.

It's gotten so bad that the mother cat runs under the bed and stays there all day. We have to take some food and shove it under the bed so she'll eat or just shut the door to the bedroom so the two bullies can't get near her. But the real problem is that she has become afraid to use the litter box for fear one of her sons will come along and bop her on the way. So she's begun peeing in sort of inappropriate places like on the rug or on the bed.

Last week Mrs. T took her to the vet and found out she has a bladder infection which may or may not also have something to do with the random pissing. While there she asked the vet why the sudden increase in violence among the kitty population, but of course, not being there, he really couldn't offer much.

By the way the two boy cats also enjoy beating up on their sister, but it's not as bad because unlike mama she will fight back. They also occasionally get into it with each other but those fights never last long. The terrorizing of the mama cat goes on for hours unless we intervene. And it's seriously scary - they stand outside the closed bedroom door when she's inside - tails switching back and forth, fur standing up along their spine like a mohawk as they make little growls.

All the kitties are fixed. I don't want to spend my whole life keeping them isolated from each other. Has anyone experienced anything like this and if so how did you deal with it?

[ironflange]

1. We had a similar situation

The oldest of the three was getting on in years, and was beginning to decline. The youngest started picking on her at first, but they soon became full fledged attacks. We dealt with it as best we could, poor Charlotte wasn't able to defend herself, but it never reached the point of injury. Cleo, the attacker, has always been a bit paranoid, and very concerned about her place in the pecking order. I figure that what was going on was this: Cleo realized that Charlotte was getting old and slow, so she was trying to "kick her out of the pack," so to speak. I know cats aren't exactly pack animals, but it's the best we can come up with. Charlotte's gone now, and we replaced her with a kitten, making Cleo the middle child. Naturally, that's made her even more neurotic, and, unfortunately for her, the youngster realizes that and likes to bug her. The current elder cat is starting to get old, and Cleo seems to be picking on her more now. Cat behavior is so much fun.

[tularetom]

9. Yes this took time to develop

When the outside cat was brought into the house, the others all turned on her now the two guys ignore her and harass their mama. We've isolated her from them and I hope that works because she's just too tiny to fight back effectively.

[Flaxbee]

2. hm. I suggest you also cross-post this in the pets forum, if you

haven't already.

Poor mama kitty to have such ungrateful sons! I haven't ever used any, so I don't know how (if) they work, but there are calming pheromone sprays (I think) for use throughout a house - I think some of them even come in plug-ins (just plug into the wall). I know Feliway is used to mask urine odors and to calm cats during travel; PetSmart has it (check online) and I'm sure many other online retailers have it as well:

**********************************
Feliway uses synthetic feline facial pheromones to end urine marking and scratching and to comfort cats in stressful situations such as being alone in the house, visitors to the home, new pet or family member, moving to a new home, visits to the veterinarian, adjusting to a new environment, or multiple cat households. Feliway mimics a natural comforting facial pheromone produced by cats. Product is odorless and non-toxic, does not affect humans. Not a drug or tranquilizer.
Refill ingredients: Analogue of feline facial pheromone 2%, excipients to 100 g.

Plug-in unit sold separately.

Feliway is a registered trademark of Ceva Santé Animale.

***************************************


Good luck with the situation! We have seven indoor kitties (well, five indoor, two roam about during the daytime) and part of the family includes a mommakitty and her three girlbabies (all also fixed). Two of our females hate each other, but neither is terrorized to the point that it sounds like your mamacat is. Poor girl. I hope you can resolve the situation easily.

[tularetom]

8. We've actually begun to isolate her in the bedroom

with her own food dish and litter box. I'll be looking into Feliway.

Odd thing is these two boy cats are otherwise the most mellow critters you can imagine. They sleep about 18 hours a day, and are both very charming with humans.

Maybe they remember how the mama used to cuff them around when they were babies.

[idgiehkt]

3. can you get another litter pan and put it in the bedroom

where you are keeping her? And keep her isolated from the others at all times? Her quality of life sounds terribly poor and being that she is not the one acting out that is really sad.

[tularetom]

7. Yes, we have done that

and even though its kind of a pain to keep her shut up in there we are doin that too. I don't get it - can't they all just get along? (in the words of the immortal rodney king).

[grasswire]

4. try Feliway and also DEFINITELY another litter pan

Goodness. She oughta have separate litter and food/water.

The Feliway comes in a plug-in sorta like those room deodorizers, and it also comes in a spray. It calms everyone down.

We had similar but less severe issues years ago with a female and two males. They would corner her in the litter box and chase her. There must be something instinctive about that behavior. The tiny size of your mama cat makes this dangerous for her.

Please don't let it continue, even if it means you have to find a new home for someone. Your poor cat is suffering.

[tularetom]

6. We have three litter boxes so we can easily isolate her

The major time for conflict is the morning communal feeding time. They all get a bowl of canned cat food and while they wait to be served, disputes arise. So once again we keep her in the bedroom and take her bowl in for her.

[pokerfan]

5. Wow, that is sad

But cats are entirely differently socialized than humans and dogs. They aren't pack animals like dogs, but they do sometimes form tribes when forced together. Normally they are solitary animals and the mother only rears them until they are old enough to strike on their own.

Try some of the ideas suggested and perhaps talk to your vet. It might be that the only answer is a downsizing. Five indoor cats must be a handfull. I've never had more than two or three at one time.

I would oust the troublesome males. They might be just fine with themselves to a good home with no other cats. Then they can be the gods all cats assume themselves to be.

[tularetom]

10. You are correct that is a hell of a lot of cats

the mama cat showed up one day and just sorta moved in. I think somebody drove out from town and dumped her off. We don't ever have to give any cats away we could just put them outside with our barn cats. I woulodn't want to do that with cats this old because they really aren't prepared for the stress of living outdoors. We catch the barn kitties when we can and have them fixed but they're really too feral to live indoors. But the boys really are mellow except for this grudge they seem to have with their mom.

We have isolated her in the bedroom with her own litter box and food and water supply. Hopefully that will help calm the tensions.

[ChickMagic]

11. I imagine they're going after the old and weak

Have the males been neutered?

I brought a young female stray home a long time ago with my already rescued stray male. I was afraid of what he might do to her, so I kept them isolated. When I decided to put them together supervised, it turned out that the male was madly in love with the female.

When they play and he takes the offense, Bonnie screams and hollers like he's trying to kill her. Axl's pretty smart. He's about 10 pounds heavier than Bonnie, but he'll provoke her and then lie on his back in a submissive position. Bonnie, of course, lays into him (he LOVES it) and when he tackles back a little bit, there's no caterwauling from Bonnie.

[tularetom]

13. They are fixed and generally pretty laid back

The mama cat has always been a bit nervous anyway and she tends to dart away quickly when confronted. That seems to make the guys think its a chase and off they go. Why they catch her and swat her I don't know but we've isolated her from the general cat population.

With 5 cats we have a lot of encoounters like the ones you describe. I never get tired of watching them. The older they get however, the more they sleep and the less they play.

[ChickMagic]

15. Yeah, they probably interpret running away as a game

One the game is on, they can get pretty wired. Since they're obviously younger, their play is going to be rough.

Even Bonnie & Axl get into it so badly sometime that we have to break it up. Luckily, it doesn't happen offen.

I don't know, our cats are elderly and will play like kittens. Axl had a favorite toy - it was just a piece of cardboard covered in fake fur. He would fling that thing way high in the air and chase it down. One day, the cardboard broke. He never touched it again. I guess he thought he broke it's neck. :shrug:

[Arkansas Granny]

12. I don't have a clue as to how to solve your problem, but it sounds

to me like your boys sense that with their mother getting older, this may be the time for them to establish their dominance of the "pack". Cats in the same household seem to have a pecking order and I think the males are ready to advance. You might isolate the boys occasionally so Mom can have the run of the house for a while, but my guess is that until they sort things out for themselves, separation is the only thing you can do. Good luck.

[tularetom]

14. They definitely have established their own hierarchy over the years

and maybe the boys are challenging it. The big giant guy is definitely the alpha cat although he is pretty mellow just because he's so huge. Just his size intinidates his mom. The other male is not as big but is ten times as hyper.

Anyway we've isolated the mama so maybe it will calm things down. Mrs. T would kill me if I let the boys harm the mama cat.

We could give the boy cats to our kids, but we don't think they'd get the kind of attention we give 'em. Besides our kids have kids and they make all the cats nervous when they are here.

[Jokerman]

16. Sounds a lot like our house.

Frankie was de-clawed and abandoned when we found her, half starved in our back yard. We already had two tom cats that were only a few years old and very close to each other. They are fixed but still have all of their claws.

We were afraid that the boys would pick on Frankie but she's a fighter with some outdoor experience and the boys were born in a shelter and have been inside all their lives. She basically intimidated them and took over the house. They were so afraid of her they didn't even get close enough to find out she lacked front claws.

It took more than five years for the boys to finally figure out that Frankie was all about intimidation and couldn't really defend herself. Now they seem to want revenge so they terrorize her all the time. If she even tries to leave the bedroom they gang up on her. A few times they have managed to corner her and rip out big hunks of fur. The boys are both sweet, gentle cats toward us but they show her no mercy. She's several years older so I'm afraid that things will only get worse when her health starts to decline.

The only thing we've been able to do is to make sure Frankie has food, water and litter in the bedroom but she's basically trapped there. I see that several people have suggested felaway and I have friends that swear by it but it didn't do much for us. In fact, every time I put out the plug-in felaway dispenser, one of our boy cats takes a great big shit right in front of it.

I'm sorry I don't have a any better ideas.