"Ladies and Gentlmen... Start your engines!"

[salin]

They had to take the "gentlmen" out of the phrase.... Indy 500 time - three women racing, five Andrettis, six (I think) former winners.

Its an annual guilty pleasure. Live too close to the race to see it on TV (its blacked out) so its radio coverage (which I think keeps it very exciting.)

Anyone else paying attention?

[salin]

1. Pole sitter Helio Castroneves - car stalls (at the taking positions)

he almost lost his position (they say 45 more seconds - if the cars had gone past him - he wouldn't have started at the poll position.)

Even the first seconds often have surprises.

[VelmaD]

2. I think that sucks...

that they have the race blacked out where you are.

And yes...it is awfully nice to hear "ladies and gentlemen"...and even better that that's the norm now. :)

[salin]

4. I sit an hour south of Indy... and grew up listening to it on the radio.

So I don't mind - its a tradition. :D

:hi:

I may be the only one paying attention at DU but that's cool - I will share anyhow - if nothing else just because :D

[VelmaD]

5. you won't be the only one

It could get crazy depending on who is in the lead down the stretch. A couple of years back when Danica Patrick came so close...we ended up needing multiple threads. It was amazing. :)

[salin]

8. Yea! Great to have good company!

See, I have to be on the porch with the radio for the tradition to work. I didn't used to have the technology to take the computer out onto the porch with me. Now I get the lounge, company, the porch, the radio... I am loving this!

[VelmaD]

10. I'm watching while I clean

This is "spring cleaning" weekend and I planned it so everything I have to do this afternoon is where I can also see the tv. :)

[salin]

11. Hats off to your planning!

This is (at least in the early race) the year of the past winners - but waay to early .... how many times has someone been running a little out of the front in the early laps - to later take command...

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. Me too, Salin. Thing is, my 'puter is in a different room so i have to run in here during

commercials to read and/or post!

Last Sunday in May always finds me watching the 500. Got up early and watched Monaco also.

[salin]

9. I have the laptop by the radio.

It must be a thrill to watch -the calling per the exchanges between Kannan and Castroneves sounds exciting.

Sad that Sarah Fisher is currently at 33rd.

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. I haven't missed watching an Indy 500 for 35 years.

I had the privilege of being a participant (I worked for an engine manufacturer from '89 thru '95 and a chassis maker in '96) and credential holder for 6 consecutive years.

Safe race, guys and gals.

[salin]

6. Very cool - that must have made the job interesting.

My nephew worked at the race (fundraising - selling food at a concession stand) for years. I only have been to the race once - as a seventeen year old - in the in field. I loved the experience - but have to admit that I was a wee bit in shock (had never been around so many wild folks - folks carrying signs like "show us your tits" and women complying... it was quite an experience.)

Agreed - wishes for a safe race.

Davie Hamilton is doing some of the radio commentary - great to hear him. He had a horrendous crash several years ago (in texas, I believe.)

[Blue_Tires]

12. i already had my racing pleasure this morning

watching the lovely and unequaled spectacle of the F1 Monaco GP....

I haven't had that much interest in Indy since 1. 'the split' and all the petty bickering back and forth over the last 10 years, and 2. since chevrolet pulled out...an all-honda field? Race fans are supposed to take this seriously??

[salin]

13. thanks for the rain on the parade...

:eyes:

But fortunately the real rain - predicted at 70% - hasn't appeared (yet).

[Blue_Tires]

15. i'm not trying to be harsh

just bitter that the chevys don't run in it anymore...

and it is something i will still watch to see if danica finally wins it...better open wheel than 'neckcar any day!

[salin]

19. I understand

misread the tone. George still has a lot of critics from the split. It has been a better race since both series started racing in it again.

I would love to see Danica win it - and would also get a kick out of an Andretti (as a kid Mario was my favorite driver - so the family still gets a 'nostalgic' nod from me.)

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. Give it a shot. I agree with your point re: the split, but the 500 is such a unique event...

the track, the length, the long term strategy......

Nothing like it. Going down the straights at 225 MPH, even with the turns being one quarter of a mile long, those lefts look like they are 90 degrees sharp!

[Blue_Tires]

18. yeah, it's something i'll watch anyways

but it doesn't have the 'drop what i'm doing and plan my whole day around it' importance that it used to, at least to me

not to say it couldn't reach that level again!

[A HERETIC I AM]

22. I hear ya, Blue. Tony George has totally screwed over my beloved open wheel racing in this country.

I was working in it when the IRL was formed and in '96 went to Michigan where the CART teams ran the "USA 500" on the same day. Hell, i could write an essay on those days and how much of an effect it has had on the casual fan. The two series have done nothing but confuse and anger those that followed big-time open wheel in the US.

[salin]

16. Andretti (Marco) pulls into second

and as I typed this a car goes into the wall (Moreno) and out comes the yellow flag.

This is when radio s*cks - can't tell how serious of a crash - (they went to an ad.)

[A HERETIC I AM]

17. Yellow, yellow, yellow!

Roberto Moreno into the wall...just did the right side. he's fine

[salin]

20. Sounds like there are some fueling problems

any speculation on the tv about what the problem is on the fueling up front?

[A HERETIC I AM]

27. Took Moreno to Methodist Hospital. Complaining of back pain.

Right rear tire changer on Al Jr's crew got ran over..hurt a foot.

[salin]

28. hope Moreno is okay... and Al Jr.s cre member

yikes and ow (foot being run over).

[salin]

21. 1 hour south of the speedway... sky is growing dark and still

let all the rain fall here and stay south of the Speedway.

[Bzzzz]

23. I'm about 1 hour from the Speedway, too...

New Castle to be exact. Listening to it on Sirius. Daughter and S-I L live in Avon...pity them and the traffic. Hope the weather holds out. Would love to see Marco win!

[salin]

25. I am in B-ton

this afternoon.

Another yellow flag... and they ALWAYS go straight to the ads (prolly because not much action happens under the yellow) - are they adless on the Sirius coverage? May have to go that route next year.

[A HERETIC I AM]

24. Yellow yellow yellow!

John Herb. Into the wall..just the right side like Moreno. He'll be fine too.

[salin]

26. thanks for the details - the radio coverage goes something like this

and its another car into the wall... another single-car incident... looks like X... *go to commercial break*

They always go to the ads under yellow - so one doesn't get the details until after the ads - and then the pitstops happen and the order thus changes during the ads.

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. Are you getting any details on the pitlane incidents?

The fuel problem was on the Penske team..Helios car... the "redhead" - the part of the fuel hose that inserts into the car malfunctioned. They got it repaired but it set Helio back to the second half of the pack cause he had to come in for a second splash apparently to top off.

[salin]

31. when it happened (described problem and the splash/top off)

but only just now mentioned that it appeared that the problem was 'solved'. Castroneves has been doing a marvelous job climbing back through the field.

They didn't say anything about Al Jrs crew member's foot being run over.

They did just talk with Herb who sounds like he is out, but okay.

[Bluzmann57]

30. Sort of

Not a big racing fan, but it sure would be nice to see Danica Patrick win, if for nothing else, to remove the monkey off her back.

[salin]

she remains at about the same place she started

now in ninth (started in ninth) after dropping back several spots.

Milka just hit the wall.

Sarah Fisher has moved from 21 dropped to 33 and is now at 19.

[A HERETIC I AM]

32. Danica currently 9th, Sarah 20th. n/t

[salin]

34. I heard Sarah at 19.

Rats about Milka Duno. Hope she is okay. So far the accidents have been single car and not too serious (per injuries).

[A HERETIC I AM]

33. Another Yellow...Milka Duno, the 3rd woman is out.

[bullwinkle428]

35. Milka Duno into the wall and out of the race...

...came up on other cars going into the turn, lifted off the throttle quickly, and the back end just whipped around and put her into the wall. She seems to be okay...

[salin]

36. thanks for details

several of us are on radio (tv blackout area in parts of Indiana) - and when the yellow comes out the radio goes to ads so we get NO details. Your description lets me almost "see" what happened. Thanks.

[vireo]

38. Check this site

http://www.indycar.com/ Go to the "scoring" section for current standing, stats and commentary.

[salin]

42. thanks for that link

the radio coverage is a little frustrating this year.

On edit - it took a while to load - but it is the PERFECT accompaniament to the radio. Thanks again.

[vireo]

44. Click on "full results" if the standings don't refresh

[salin]

45. I just edited my post

because I noticed that - it is very helpful. I have that window open.

[salin]

46. Thunder an hour south of the Speedway.

rain - HOLD OFF or fall down here and skip Indy!

[A HERETIC I AM]

40. Rookie mistake. Just need to "feather" the throttle. Coming all the way off

and you saw the result. Back end gets light, snaps out and its all over

[salin]

41. I read that she earlier came out of the pitts too fast

no way to learn from rookie mistakes unless one makes them. I hope to see her again here next year.

[Blue_Tires]

72. sad...i was pulling for her to get a good result

[salin]

37. Wow - the lead changes are amazing

I can't remember such frequent lead changes in recent years. They just said their have been 17 lead changes so far (the record is 29).

jaques lazier question - he is at fifth from 28th. Did he skip a pit when others went in or is he on the same cycle as the leaders (in which case WOW what a climb.)

[A HERETIC I AM]

39. In-car cmera w/ Danica just then. Great driving in her part....

Nice tow and great pass into one.

[salin]

43. Danica in 5th

and Marco Andretti in 2nd. Loving this!

[vireo]

47. The pride of Roscoe, Illinois

I would love for her to win it, but Kanaan seems to be having the strongest run.

[salin]

48. Now in 4th. Go Danica!

and one of the Andretti's (John) is out.

[vireo]

51. 3rd awaiting the green flag

10 minutes to rain!

[vireo]

52. Back to yellow

[salin]

54. Second Rookie to hit the wall - and end his race.

thankfully all the accidents, so far, seem to be minor in terms of injuries.

[salin]

53. raining an hour south....

but only light showers (if that is what hits Indy - it will pass quickly.)

[vireo]

57. Looks like a narrow band of moderate showers

But with some embedded heavy rain at the southern edge; hopefully those will stay to the south.

[salin]

62. speculation that the race is over.

While the rain down her (an hour south) was short and brief. What a let down - so exciting - to end with a lot of laps under yellow... and barely more than half of the race finished.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

49. They still run Indy? (spoiler?)

Fernando Alonso won the only race that matters today. Watching the opening round of the French Open now. The potential Federer, Nadal final could put tennis back on the map here in the states.

[A HERETIC I AM]

60. At least you can pass at the Speedway. Monaco is a qualifying event ...

As a fellow F1 fan, you must admit that if Monaco applied for a position on the F1 calender today, they would be laughed out of the offices of FISA.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

63. Sure

It's more of an event anyway. Like you, I prefer SPA, Monza, Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve, and Albert Park. I used to be a huge CART fan, so I don't think I could ever forgive Tony George for what he has done to American open wheel racing. (Yes I am aware of the USAC-CART split in '79)

[A HERETIC I AM]

65. The USAC - CART split was he best thing to ever happen to Open Wheel in this country....

it was the formation of the Indy Racing League that fucked everything over. Like i said in a post above, i was in the biz when that happened and worked for the company that had a large part in the genesis of the IRL. I could write an essay on those days, the causes and the subsequent effects.

[salin]

67. I would be interested in reading such an essay.

[A HERETIC I AM]

68. well.....give me a half hour or so and i'll type up the readers digest version...

It's going to be at least 90 minutes before they go green anyway. An hour at least if the rain stopped right now.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

70. Cool

I'd like to read it too!

[salin]

71. thundering and pouring down here, right now..

but the folks on the radio seem hopeful that the race can be restarted up there...

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

73. The street in front of my house

is dry except for the spot were the giant pothole is, at least they don't have to worry about that at the track.

[A HERETIC I AM]

74. OK....here is the Readers Digest version....

I started working for Ilmor Engineering in 1989. Ilmor is a company based in Brixworth, England, outside Northampton formed in 1983 by 2 former Cosworth engineers, Mario Illien (the "IL") and Paul Morgan (the "MOR", of Ilmor) with backing from their old friend, Roger Penske. Penske used his pull with folks he knew at General Motors to arrange financing and form an engine maker specifically to produce engines for Chevrolet to run in the CART series and the Indy 500. They built a 2.65 liter engine that within 2 years of its debut, began to dominate the series. Their 1st win at Indy came in 1988 in a Penske car driven by Rick Mears. In 1993, Chevrolet thought they had a deal inked for the following years. Late in '93 Ilmor announced that it had decided to turn down the offer from Chevrolet in favor of an offer from Mercedes Benz. (There is a HUGE amount of back story here, but i don't have the inclination to spell it all out just now)

So, for the 1994 season, the "Chevrolet" nameplates came off the engines and "Ilmor Indy V8" went on. The key to the deal with M-B however was the production of an engine specifically for Indy, the 500I that exploited a provision in the USAC rules at Indy that allowed for a pushrod "stockblock" engine of larger displacement to be allowed more turbo boost, primarily because pushrod engines have a fraction of the durability of an overhead cam engine at the high RPM's the OHC engines were running at (12,000 RPM's). Buick had been running their racing V6 with this extra boost for years but no one had been able to successfully make a V8 that could run competitively for 500 miles and the Buick's, while fast and competitive in qualifying, could not keep up with the thoroughbred racing engines.

Shortly after the announcement it became clear that there were some SERIOUS noses bent out of shape in Warren, Mi (GM's tech center and the home of Chevrolet Racing) because it meant they weren't going to be represented at Indy in '94 and they felt that they were shut out by a company that they had helped form (Ilmor). Those bent noses coupled with plenty of people surrounding IMS President Tony George that had axes to grind, convinced George to create the Indy Racing League with the intent of essentially bringing home Indy car racing from the foreign (Mostly British) chassis and engine makers. In other words, "If we can't win against the foreigners, we'll make it so they cant run here" became the mentality at the speedway.

The 500I was very successful (again, plenty more back story here, including a little known fact; The engine didn't complete it's first 500 mile durability test until the 1st week of May that year, just before opening day at the speedway) and if Emerson hadn't crashed in his qualifying attempt the 1st weekend, they would have had the entire front row with Al Jr., Paul Tracy and Fittipaldi. Ilmor and M-B held the engines for the exclusive use of Penske Racing that year but they had cast something on the order of 200 sets of blocks and heads for next year, if the project turned out to be a success so as to supply any other teams that wanted the engine.

Of course, the Speedway (read Tony George) changed the rules and dis-allowed the pushrod V8 for subsequent years. This rule change forced Ilmor and M-B to send several million dollars worth of castings to the shredder.

Over the course of the rest of '94, the Ilmor V8 and Penske racing absolutely DOMINATED the series, winning a total of 12 races, 10 pole positions and a total of 28 podium finishes between the 3 aforementioned drivers. This success further pissed off the folks at the Chevy "Raceshop". After all, it was essentially the same engine that ran the year before with "Chevrolet" emblazoned on it. Chevy lost all that good press and they weren't happy about it one bit.

The plans for the IRL progressed over the course of the 1995 season and began in earnest in 1996. Tony George laid out a rule for the 1996 500 that completely stunned the team owners. If they didn't compete in the first 3 races of the new IRL schedule, then any CART team that wanted to qualify for the 1996 500 would be fighting for 8 positions at the rear of the grid only. The majority of the team owners basically said "Fuck you" and ran at Michigan on the same day as the 500.

Tony George is basically an asshole. He knew he had the ace in the deck, the 500 - but he had very few other cards. He had AJ Foyt (His godfather, BTW) and he had a pissed off General Motors that wanted to win at Indy. Tony George is truly a member of the lucky sperm club, having ZERO business acumen and in fact, a history of cocaine abuse that has been noted but hushed up by the Hulman family. He was made a member of the board of CART in the early 90's primarily because he felt he should be involved in the rest of Indy Car racing outside the speedway but i have it on very good authority that every meeting he ever attended, he was either silent or when he did open his mouth, he added little or nothing to the conversation. He is a moron, basically and all the team owners know it. If it wasn't for his mother, Mary Hulman George, the Chairman of the IMS and daughter of the late Tony Hulman, Tony George would be a quiet, dopey nobody son of a wealthy midwestern family. Unfortunately for open wheel racing, he is in charge of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

There is a whole hell of a lot more to this story. The folks in the background whispering in George's ear, the guys in Warren who dropped the ball and let Ilmor get away, AJ Foyt who HATES street courses, etc. Perhaps someday, Tony and the remaining team owners holding out as "Champ Car" will get together and return Indy to it's rightful place as "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing".

I won't hold my breath.


On edit to add these Wiki links for your edification.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indy_Racing_League
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Championship_Auto_Racing_Teams

[salin]

83. Fascinating read

I was out of the state for most of these years (in grad school on the west coast) and didn't follow closely until I came back in 1999. This is very intersting back story. I have heard allusions to George being a pretty messed up guy (and, yes, very lucky in the 'to whom I was born' department). This certainly solidifies that impression.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

69. When it comes to racing

I don't think you and I would disagree with much! :)

I added the USAC-CART split because I knew there would be an IRL fan to come along and bring it up. Just thinking about the '96 split brings tears to my eyes. Indy was once really special, knowing that a return to the glory days is almost impossible is a sad concept to accept.

[A HERETIC I AM]

75. Check out this thread i started 2 weeks ago on Pole Day...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=873287

Not only was Indy once really special, I was there in the early 90's when there would be 350,000 plus people there on POLE DAY!

It was said for years and years that the largest single day gate take of any sporting event in the world was the Indy 500. The second largest was the first day of qualifying or Pole Day. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. I drove down Georgetown one year the night before the race and it was like Mardi Gras. Tens of thousands of people on the streets around the track. It is nothing like that anymore.

[salin]

50. Raining in B-ton, rain reported in Indy - but much of the Speedway

is reportedly dry.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

55. Rain begins

2 miles west of track, Should be at the track in a minute

[salin]

56. the shower in b-ton lasted less than five minutes

hope you (and the speedway) receive a similar length shower.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

58. It's very light

right now, I can't even hear it hitting my roof, looking out the window I can barely see it.

[A HERETIC I AM]

59. Red flag. Race stopped

[salin]

61. DANGIT

a little earlier and it would have been Marco Andretti. :-( But good for Kannan who barely lost it in 2002. Danica ends at 3rd. Speculating on the radio that this will be IT.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

64. Are you sure

your not thinking of Paul Tracy in 2002? He was screwed out of the win, King Tony couldn't bear to see a CART driver show up and own his track again.

[salin]

66. oops - what you say sounds right

my memory isn't what it once was.

[vireo]

76. "Restart your engines!"

At 5:45 Eastern.

[salin]

77. Just

what I came looking for... they cut the radio coverage (said it would be back at six) - just checking back in - that isn't far off!

[A HERETIC I AM]

78. yup...here we go...

[salin]

79. Doesn't sound like they will be able to finish (rain within the hour)

but it would be great if it didn't end after so much yellow (little chance to change position) and nearly half the race to go.

This is exciting! Go Marco!

[salin]

80. Play it smart, Danica...

still third. And now we are back in a race!

[salin]

81. She moved to SECOND!

[A HERETIC I AM]

82. If she plays this right with the rain, it could be hers...

[salin]

85. Indeed - but Castroneve's comeback has been very impressive.

[A HERETIC I AM]

89. Just said rain was 15 mins away. n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

84. Ok...prediction; Looks to me like a typical Penske Cat and Mouse set up....

Either Castroneves or Hornish again. They both got a couple clicks on the mixture knob they havent used yet, i just bet. Sand bag them all till the last little bit then let that car have its head. Just like last year, when Hornish found 10 horsepower he hadnt used all race. As long as the pit stops go smooth......


I fucking love the 500

[salin]

86. What is the biggest difference, in your opinion,

of the use of the ethanol?

[A HERETIC I AM]

88. You know....I'm not sure. I heard them say earlier they reduced fuel capacity to 20 gallons...

back when i was in it, it was 40. The most they could hope for using Methanol at speed was about 2 MPG. The rules back then said they HAD to get 1.8 and allowed only that much fuel for each car. (500 miles divided by 1.8 MPG) If you ran too hard and averaged 1.75, for instance, you were going to run out before the checker.

I don't know if Ethanol offers better economy or not.

[salin]

90. Given that the rain could come anytime... I wonder if this be a factor

in the end. In the sense that timing is everying - and the leaders are not following the same pit cycles. What an interesting race.

thanks for the company and insights - it has definitely added to my enjoyment of the race today.

[A HERETIC I AM]

107. I think i would have been right, had the rain not fallen. Penske cars finished 3rd and 4th...

perfect position to reel the leaders in.

[Twillig]

109. It sure had that feeling. 'Course it always does.

I must admit to being a Penske hater.

Anybody but Penske!

Well, that race had a lot of things. Lot's of speed, some good passes, some dubious moves (eh, Hornish?), ever present Threat Of Death (Jeff Simmons, looked like he was going to saw his car down the middle after the restart, and Marco's wild ride) which was happily denied.

I fucking love the 500

Hell Yeah.

Every year I think of the movie Platoon and what Kevin Dillon's character, Bunny, had to say about the Indy 500! (Which I will not repeat. :-) )


:thumbsup:

[salin]

87. So many to cheer for...

Hamilton is giving a good run. What a comeback story that would be.

[A HERETIC I AM]

91. Marty Roth. Big push...into the wall. He's ok.

[salin]

92. yellow flag - and looming rain...

feels reminiscent of earlier today - but somehow even more exciting.

[salin]

93. Yellow and rain reportedly minutes away.

Kannon and Jaques Lazier out?

[salin]

94. Kanaan back in

Lazier out.

[A HERETIC I AM]

95. Multi car crash! Marco Andretti and a couple others....

[SeattleGirl]

97. That was a scary wreck, with Marco fipping upside down.

[vireo]

98. Phew! He's OK.

[salin]

102. no kidding.

Race over - Dario Franchitti wins it.

[salin]

100. details?

the radio coverage sucks more than I realized. Wheldon, Buddy Rice and who else is out? Initially they said "Michael Andretti" - but it was Marco, or both?

Sounds like they are about to call it and Franchitti will win it.

[salin]

96. What just happened?

can't quite tell who all hit each other and got knocked out - Wheldon? Michael Andretti "upside down" (they said that and then said no more) - and something about Hornish and x(?) running into each other? Someone with tv coverage - please fill me in.

[SeattleGirl]

99. It wasn't Micheal, it was Marco who flipped upside down and skidded off the track.

[salin]

103. Maybe next year I will travel outside of Indiana

so I can watch, rather than just listen to, the race (am in "tv blackout zone") usually this is fine - but this year it was awful. Missed far too much.

[A HERETIC I AM]

106. Salin, it looked like Marco drifted to his right into Wheldon...

Touching right rear of Andretti into Wheldons left front. That sent Marco spinning, got wind under him and put him in the air, flipping him over. He came to rest upright and walked away.

[salin]

110. I finally just saw it

that many hours later on the delayed tape.

This is the first year that I have found the radio coverage to be more than inadequate. I am serious that I think I will go on a trip next year to the nearest non-Indy market (Cincy? Louisville?) to actually watch the race on television. Maybe make it a new annual tradition.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

111. They need Bob Jenkins or Paul Page

back as the voice of the 500.

[A HERETIC I AM]

101. Rain now. This will be it.

[SeattleGirl]

104. I hate it when races end that way, or end under caution.

I love the Indy 500, and also love NASCAR (been flipping back and forth between the two races). I like good, green/checkered flag finishes.

[A HERETIC I AM]

105. Dario Franchitti wins in the rain. Yellow, red checker.

[Deja Q]

108. My engine's been revved all my life... can't wait to clutch it into 'Drive'.

:rofl:

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

112. Just saw

the tape delay here in Indy, Did anyone notice in the green room after the race victory, Dario kind of pushed a kiss away from his wife Ashley Judd when she bent over to kiss him? Out of the 5 of us at my friends house watching 3 of us noticed this, It was stranger when he hugs and kisses his team with no problem. What type of fool would push a woman away that looked like that?

[SeattleGirl]

113. I noticed that, too.

Thought it was a bit weird.