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Why do women have full time breasts? (A biology thread)

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edbermac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:24 PM
Original message
Why do women have full time breasts? (A biology thread)
From MSNBC website, a question I've often pondered. :think:

Why do women orgasm? Why do they have prominent breasts even when they aren’t nursing a baby? Why can’t people tell when a woman is ovulating? Why would anybody even ask these questions? Most people don’t, but evolutionary psychologists, biologists and anthropologists make a living doing so, and the possible answers give us some interesting clues to why we have sex the way we do today.

Men just don't seem to have the same number of unanswered questions about our biology. Male primates — male mammals in general — all have penises and testicles and sperm. We use them whenever we can. Unless we are sick or injured, we can make babies. And if anybody wants to know if we're interested, all they have to do is look to see if we're at attention. Science seems to know why men work the way we do, which is pretty much the way other male primates work. The sexual biology of human females, though, can be puzzling.

David P. Barash, a University of Washington psychology professor who is writing a book about such “evolutionary enigmas,” gave a presentation to the annual meeting of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists in San Diego earlier this month. Afterward, I asked him to follow up with Sexploration and invited other experts to weigh in. Though nobody claims to have the right answers about some of these top female mysteries, they do seem to have fun thinking about them.

.....

It was once thought that women have orgasms so the muscle contractions could shepherd sperm toward the cervix, what Barash calls, alarmingly, “the uterine suck-up theory.” But this has been more or less proven false. Shlain believes orgasm is a reward to women, a little something to entice them to have sex rather than focus on the prospect of death in childbirth. “Once she knows death is associated with sex, she needs to have an impetus to keep having her do it,” he says.

“Women have orgasms because men do,” insists Katherine Dettwyler, an anthropologist and colleague of Rosenberg’s. “The clitoris is the homologue of the head of the penis. I think orgasms are a reward to men to as much as possible and also the muscles contracting shoot ejaculate out and so it gets as far it can. Women have a clitoris because that’s what’s left of the head of the penis, like men have nipples.” Rosenberg agrees, calling female orgasm an evolutionary “side effect.”

But Barash says he is “unimpressed with that notion. Male nipples are trivial; they are laughable. Female orgasm is a definite phenomenon, more Technicolor as opposed to male orgasm. It is hard to believe it is a mere byproduct when women are capable of multiple orgasms that would make any man jealous.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18039615/
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. women have orgasms so that they have some urge to indulge in the process require to make babies
otherwise why would they"?
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Snerk.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh why ask why?
:evilgrin:
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deepthought42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't care about the why so much
as the How, the When, and with whom... :evilgrin:
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. The notion that the female orgasm is a vestigial remnant caused by analogous tissues is silly.
Edited on Thu May-24-07 02:42 PM by LeftyMom
I'm glad somebody pointed it out in the article. Women have (provided ample attention from somebody with any skill) full-body, lightheaded, pardon-me-I-can't-seem-to-find-my-legs orgasms. Men sure seem to enjoy theirs, but not on anything like the same scale.

Edit: Women have full-time boobs to sell beer. Duh.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. female orgasms
it makes perfect sense that they are a vestige of the male orgasm. If there was an alternative reason, such as pleasure, etc, then why does it take so much longer for a woman to achieve orgasm (on average) than a man? Sensual pleasure is important, of course, but the actual orgasm has no purpose. Well, evolutionarily speaking :D
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kay1864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Averages, shmaverages
Exceptions rock.

:patriot:
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. oh god yes
especially here :toast:
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NewWaveChick1981 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. ...
;) Yes, they do. :D


Thank you on behalf of exceptions everywhere! :patriot:
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. I don't care if it takes me longer.
I can get more than one at a time. So there. :P
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. hey
i don't deny the positives, just that they have no evolutionary purpose ;)
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pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. The reason it takes so long with most women
is becuase their brains get in the way of them having pleasure...:)

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ForrestGump Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Yeah, it does...have an evolutionary purpose, I mean

Helps enhance fertility...basically helps suck up the little male gametes. Probably. Possibly.

There was a series of papers on this in the '90s, I think by a couple of British dudes (I forget their names). I read them and critiqued them -- I recall that I had doubts about some of their methods and conclusions -- but I think their ideas had merit. It was pretty big news in the evolutionary and behavioral fields at the time.

Woodward and Bernstein, I think. Something like that.

I always wished that my research could have involved the kind of things they were looking at. :D

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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. as far as i know
those ideas (the sucking action, etc) have been discredited. Again, those would work if an orgasm is the norm, but it seems to not be. Of course i don't have a link to relevant papers, so i may be talking bullshit :D
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NewWaveChick1981 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't question WHY women have orgasms.
:) I just thank evolution for them. Over and over and over again. :evilgrin: :D

As far as the biological motivators for having a baby, I can only imagine how boring it would be without some incentive. :evilgrin:
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. Women have full time breasts as distractants...
It keeps men from seeing the looks on our faces that reflect what we REALLY feel about their lame come on line.:D
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. Backwards
This is backwards.

"The clitoris is the homologue of the head of the penis..."

All mammal embryos start as females, therefore the male reproductive organs are derived from the female organs. At least that was what I was taught in human sexual biology.
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querelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. Male nipples are trivial; they are laughable.
Oh yeah? Play with mine and see what happens...........

Q
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Women have orgasms so they have a way of faking it to get it over when it's really bad
Seriously.

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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. sounds kinda dumb
"Women have orgasms because men do,” insists Katherine Dettwyler, an anthropologist and colleague of Rosenberg’s. “The clitoris is the homologue of the head of the penis. I think orgasms are a reward to men to as much as possible and also the muscles contracting shoot ejaculate out and so it gets as far it can. Women have a clitoris because that’s what’s left of the head of the penis, like men have nipples.” Rosenberg agrees, calling female orgasm an evolutionary “side effect.”

"I think orgasms are to reward men as much as possible". Sounds like a creationist...or something. I think this is just some really stupid writing. I can't remember the name for the contractions that help carry sperm into the uterus, the same thing happens in the esophagus when we swallow.

It makes me wonder if someone who could call female orgasm "a little something" has ever experienced one, from either perspective.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. So men will talk to them...
...goes the bad joke.

There's a grain of truth there, though, in that our big primate brains have learned to use sexual attraction both as social glue and as a means for competition. Our year-round female fertility gave us an evolutionary advantage, and so we evolved further to maximize that advantage. There were times, I believe, when human numbers verged on extinction, and it may be that we would not have survived without our drop-of-a-hat sex lives.
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