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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 09:51 AM
Original message
This is a rant about conventions--long
SF/media ones, to be specific. I just want to get something off my chest because all my friends are fully aware of my feelings toward conventions, and so I want to just vent.

I've been going to conventions since 1971, when I was 15. My very first convention was WorldCon in Boston. It felt wonderful to be around people like myself--those interested in science fiction and fantasy, and the great authors who wrote the books I was reading, like Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, and others like them.

Most people, when they think of conventions, think of business related ones, where there is a boring lecturer and everyone is ready to fall asleep, and "dealers' rooms" are business showcases. Not so in the world of science fiction.

At SF conventions, the main goal is entertainment. Dealers' rooms have a lot of items such as books, fantasy items--pretty much any collectable that fans would want to have and willing to buy. At big conventions, there are art shows, where fantasy and SF artists show off some of their gorgeous artwork, authors or other guests discussing everything from writing SF and fantasy to building logical worlds which possibly could exist, based on the scientific evidence.

As I said, my first convention was in 1971, and the first author I ever met was Clifford Simak who wrote the SF classic, "City." I was thrilled beyond measure when I got to see the presentation of the Hugo Awards--the specific awards program for science fiction and fantasy writing associated with WorldCon. (There is another major award called the Nebula, but that isn't from the World Science Fiction Convention) Meeting people who had similar interests was wonderful--at school, I only had a couple of friends who were into science fiction, so it was satisfying to know I was "not alone" in my passions.

At that first WorldCon, I picked up some flyers for what would be the very first Star Trek Convention. It was going to be held in New York City less than a year away. (WorldCon traditionally is held over Labor Day, and the first ST cons in NYC were in February) I wanted so much to go, but it was not possible in the end. I kept track, though, and in 1973, during the Junior Class Trip, I got to go and meet the stars of Star Trek.

I attended every other one after that. These were put together by a science fiction group who participated in WorldCon and other, local SF conventions. They quit after 5 conventions, though, and that fueled my interest to stay as involved in science fiction circles as I could. I was spoiled--SF conventions were run by professions--those people who had been involved in fandom for a long time, and who could effortlessly (to me) put together a very fine assembly of authors, artists, media entertainers and more.

But there was a lot more. There were other kinds of SF conventions--or at least that's what they advertised. Except that these weren't real SF conventions, but comic book shows. Comic book shows were mainly filled (obviously) with comic book fans, whose interest in real SF and fantasy was peripheral at best. There were a lot of people who enjoyed both interest groups, though, and a duo of comic book fans began to have monthly comic book shows and start inviting media guests to attract more people.

These "conventions" never featured the rich details of a REAL convention. There was no loving design for convention name badges, there was never a showcase of SF artists in an art room, there were sporadic (at best) film/TV rooms to see films and TV episodes, there were hardly ever discussions or panels to go to, and most of all, there was little to no programming at all. You paid your money, they stamped your hand, and welcome to the "convention."

Unfortunately, these latter type groups began to proliferate. Real SF conventions were still held at their traditional time and place, and I attended as many as I could along the Atlantic Seaboard. But the comic book shows were still growing, and often had guests that were too expensive for the regular fan run conventions. In fact, Boskone, the main SF convention in Boston, began to grow and expand with many media fans, with a convention attendance of one Boskone in the early 1980s of 8000 fans.

Boskone began to split into two groups--those who were SF fans, and another group of people mostly interested in media SF.

For some reason, media SF fans were more hyper than regular SF fans. During that one convention with 8000 fans, I guess there was some damage done to the hotel, and Boskone was held responsible.

But as a result of that, media SF comic book conventions began to thrive. It wasn't the same principle as a regular convention--these "shows" were mostly taken in in a day only, with little to no people staying overnight. There was little beyond a humongous dealers' room and one main programming track, and no there was no real gathering of fans like at a traditional convention.

The one group that came to Boston was the idea of two people, Gary Berman and Adam Malin. They called their group, Creation. The club I was involved with at the time had their own convention, too, though it was more of a party weekend than a regular convention, and as a group we started to attend these Creation cons. The problem was, however, that Creation was hostile to other conventions, and didn't allow anyone to advertise their own conventions at the Creation shows. And with little to no other tracks, our group created its own entertainment, but we felt somewhat repressed as well, considering how much money we all paid for the convention. We also felt cheated because of the lack of other options at the "convention" that we were at. In essence, it was mainly a comic book convention, with some media guest stars to attract SF fans.

Well, over twenty years later, the divide still exists, except Creation has won. WorldCon is still held, and has upwards of 10,000 fans gathering for it. Local conventions are still held, like Boskone and its media cousin, Arisia. Other conventions of a literary nature are still held, but they are far and few between. The only very large media conventions (other than Creation) are Shore Leave, DragonCon, San Diego ComicCon (which is less an actual comic book convention than a regular media convention) and LosFas in L.A.

But Creation indeed flourished, and continued to cheat SF fans over the period of their continued existence. Nowadays, they are able to throw these "spectacular" conventions with several different "A" list of guests for which media fans will pay beau-coup bucks to see.

Essentially, Creation made it so that smaller conventions could not afford to hire big name guests because they became overpriced, and the Creation cons were slick "gate shows" with little to offer but costing a small fortune.

And so, the majority of small, intimate media conventions began to suffer badly, and the guest lists were soon depleted of guests that would attract fans. The small conventions were soon in the throes of bankruptcy or non-existence.

And now, in the present, Creation conventions dominate the landscape. They charge upwards of $500 at some of their conventions, and they now have "tiered" pricing--the more media guests you want to see will cost you that much more. Big, impersonal and slick attitudes are their traditional motif, and if you don't like it, fuck you.

It makes someone like myself totally bummed out, seeing the real, fan run convention dwindle and die because of a group of assholes who corrupted SF convention fandom.

I think for me, that I'm now a dinosaur. Once upon a time, a long time ago, I protested the Creation cons on a board and I got someone who pretty much said she went to Creation cons because they had the guests that other conventions didn't, and she had no interest in anything else. Perhaps it was just me, but that seemed like a hollow and shallow comment, and I never brought up the subject again.

Now, too, the regular SF conventions have felt the media fever generated by these big "SF Creation cons" and have raised their prices as well. It's now not so easy to afford conventions at all, and going to one is sporadic at best.

I hate the Creation cons. They have spoiled what was a pleasurable source of entertainment, and brought an end to a sanctuary for those of us who were often alone in the world because of our "differences." Many people nowadays will never be able to make it to a regular convention and enjoy the feeling of being part of something larger, something that covered the entire globe, and made them feel less lonely.

I guess it's time for me to come into the present and dwell on reality of now. SF fans are going to find themselves with fewer places to gather, and if they have an interest in media SF, they better prepare themselves for the reality of a convention where crowd control and lack of breathing room are now the norm.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've only ever been to the smaller conventions.
I worked at I-Con on Long Island for three years. One year in Hospitality and two years in RPGs.

I agree with you that the less corporate conventions had (and some still have) a lot more to offer than the huge ones. I've repeatedly looked into going, listed to all the people who have gone, and keep deciding not to go. I'm just not into paying huge amounts of money to mill around in a crowd

The smaller conventions have their problems too. Internally they are all cliques and power-plays. If you're not part of the in-crowd you get undermined and devalued every step of the way. It's their convention and they'll make sure you're always aware of it.

I'd love to go to more conventions but I've sort of petered out. I only go occassionally at this point.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The sad part for me
is the inability of new fans to be introduced to the world of fandom as it used to exist.

Nowadays, there are many internet connections for fans, and that's good. But it shouldn't--and doesn't--replace the exhilaration of being with fellow fans. Back at the old ST cons in NY, I used to host a party every year and we would get a lot of new people involved. One year, one of the gang asked Majel to the party, and not only did Majel show up, but Gene Roddenberry did as well, and a dear friend, Hal Clement (whose real name was Harry Stubbs). Part of the evening had Gene and Harry discussing one of Gene's new projects, which Harry was able to bring in the real scientific end. I guess after discussing it with Harry, Gene decided not to go ahead with the project! (It was something like Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea with an underwater city)

I also ran (and paid heavily for) three conventions from 1996-1997 called RebelCon in Massachusetts. Even though I lived in L.A., I co-chaired with my best friend Marje, and we did okay, even though we lost a lot of money. (Excuse me--I lost a lot of money!) We ended up with a lot of Babylon 5 guests, writer friends (John Peel, Peter David, and a few others my progressively feeble mind can't recall right now). So I've been on both sides of the fence, and have enough experience to last me a lifetime.

I, too, haven't been to a con in a long time. Without a car part of the time certainly doesn't help, and I won't go to a CreationCon, even if the actor I'm madly "in love" with is there. It's just not worth the hassle of what I feel when I've been to them in the past. Back in '97, I was helping out the president of the Kevin Sorbo fan club at a "Hercules and Zena" convention in Burbank, and I was working at Universal at the time. I think it was Gary who asked me if I had a conflict of interest, working at Universal, and being a fan. I simply said "no" and that was it. Although the Kevin Sorbo club actually got me in trouble--in '96, WorldCon was in Anaheim, and I went, of course. Someone had distributed flyers about Creation getting a deal with Universal on merchandising (the department I was in at the time) and wanting a boycott of Creation. When I went back to work the day after the convention, Human Resources questioned me about the flyers and I almost laughed. I told them it wasn't me who distributed them, and that at the convention, I could be as outspoken as I wanted, because I'd been a fan longer than I was an employee of Universal. It was just plain harassment--someone else obviously hated Creation as much as I did!

Anyhow, it's good to know there are some other people who have seen the transitions I've experienced in fandom as well. I think a return to a smaller, more intimate convention is in order. I think I'll go to Arisia and Boskone this coming year (actually, early 2008) and find a few other small cons. I-Con used to be fun many years ago, and I need to check out where WorldCon is this year. Maybe I can afford to go.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. BTW, Have you ever met Harry Turtledove?
I've never been to one of those conventions, but I have read many of his books. Didn't know if he made appearances at those type of things.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm not certain
I haven't been in awhile as I said, but I don't recall the name. The best way to check is to go to one of the convention info websites.

The main WorldCon is http://www.worldcon.org

It appears that WorldCon is in Japan this year, which means that there is a NASIC--whenever there is a WorldCon outside of North America, they hold another con in the country for those who can't make it to the WorldCon.

The main NASFIC site is http://www.nasfic.org

It appears this year's NASFIC is in Seattle.


You can also try the NESFA website for upcoming conventions: http://www.nesfa.org

And you can check out the newsgroup, alt.fandom.cons which is a rich source of information and conversation

Have you checked to see if Turtledove has a site of his own? If so, he might be keeping a log of where he is appearing. Good luck!
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. PS
There is an excellent site for you to check out that gives a lot of info on his writing and a biography, as well as a lot more. It can also put you in contact with him if you want, and talk about conventions.

http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/turtledove.html
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AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. I got to meet Roger Zelazny at a small Con in El Paso
i think in 94 or 95, not long before he died.

Amazingly nice guy.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Most SF writers are very out-going
for the most part. If you go to conventions, you will see that. Most of them are highly intelligent, and love people. SF conventions have some great parties, too. In those early days of the Star Trek cons, the committee used to "seed" parties--providing some snacks and soda to get things going. They encouraged people to get together and get to know each other.

At the Boskones here in Massachusetts, a group from Boxborough used to get a suite and hold a whopper of a party. I imagine they still do.

Science fiction authors and artists are able to fit playing into their lives as much as working for some reason. There are a few who are like hermits (Arthur C. Clarke is a famous example), but I have known enough who would never survive without a lot of human contact. It's part of their writing style--they develop characters who are a result of all their people-watching, so even while they write of impossible things, you can believe in their characters as relatively "normal" people.

If you regularly go to conventions, you get to know the authors pretty well. Some drink like fish, others have wicked senses of humor. At Boskone, they used to have a pun panel, where the most "high brow" entertainment was telling stories with major puns in them. Spider Robinson's "Callahan's Crosstime Saloon" had a Sunday Punday that was where it originally came from.

Glad you enjoyed meeting Roger Zelazny! I remember the first time I got to meet Harlan Ellison. I'd been a fan for quite a while, and in 1976, he was in Boston for the first Boston Star Trek Association. I was walking down the hall with some friends, and he passed us on the way. One of my friends was well aware of how fond I was of Harlan, and she waited for my reaction. It took a good minute or two before I realized it had been him, and I suddenly stopped, and holloered out "Harlan!" at which point my friends burst out laughing. I got to see him more that weekend, and found out that contrary to popular opinion, he was actually a pleasant guy!

When I was younger, I was grateful and lucky to have discovered fandom. It made me feel less alone, somehow. When you were somewhat different than most people (at least in the early 1970s), it was very isolating. Nowadays being a SF fan isn't the same, but back then it was. Nowadays, most people have a lot better handle on science fiction. And SF is more popular than it was once upon a time. Fans aren't as isolated as they were then. And that's a good thing, conventions or not!
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kay1864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. My take in a nutshell:
Creation: A slick and incredibly overpriced rip-off. Never been, but I've seen their flyers and website.

Worldcon: Used to be interesting and fun, now they're just boring and overpriced ($150+ if you buy three years in advance, $200+ a few months in advance). Haven't been to one since 2002. Snobbish / too literary. I predict it will all but die out within 10 years. Their fan base is getting older since there's no infusion of younger fans.

DragonCon: A reasonably-priced ($45 if you buy a year in an advance, $70 a few months in advance) con that offers a lot for the money. Very diverse programming tracks, although the writer's track is more sparse than Worldcon's. However it's not just a "media con" like Creation. It has excellent art show, artist/writer guests galore, and great film/TV rooms. I go every year.

Regional cons: Still around, but it seems like there are fewer of them. I haven't been to one in over 10 years.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. DragonCon sounds nice
Though in the past the amount of people that have been reported there tends to put me off a little--nothing to do with the con, but I'm barely 5'1" tall, and I get a little claustrophobic about being in crowds. (One of the reasons I despise Creation so much, but also why I don't go to many large events as well) With WorldCon, they usually have the ability to have a very large space for the cons, so it isn't a big issue.

I see the guest list of DragonCon and San Diego Comic Con and I get a little jealous that I can't get to them.

In Massachusetts, there are always a lot of conventions still, and this year I intend to pay more atention to the schedules. I'm just now getting back into my hobbies to some degree, and I'm looking forward to seeing some old friends.
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kay1864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. The crowds are easily avoided
Since they're only outside the two main ballrooms, and usually right before a concert. If you go to programming tracks, the art show, or the masquerade, the rooms and corridors are normal. And during the day, it's normal con foot traffic. At night I just go to other programming events away from the concerts, and there's no problem.

Hotels are pricey though (like at Worldcons, about $140/night), so share a room with friends if you can.

Check out their website to see if they have programming tracks that interest you.
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