Question about LAST week's ep of 24...

[kay1864]

(sorry for the delay, I've been DU-less for a few weeks. Apologies if this was discussed last week)

Karen Hayes (head of Homeland Security) fires Bill Buchanan, her husband (head of CTU).

Isn't it IMPOSSIBLE for someone to report to his/her spouse in the gummint? i.e., once word got out that they were going to get married, one or the other would HAVE to step down, right?

Yeah, I know, it's a TV show, and they bend the rules, but 24 is usually pretty good about sticking to reality (25th Amendment, realistic technology, etc.)

I had a big :wtf: moment after that.

[Zavulon]

1. No idea, but I sure don't care much for Karen right now. (NT)

[kay1864]

2. Yeah, I really like Bill Buchanan

Best head of CTU they've had. For awhile there it was like being the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts--you couldn't hold the post more than one season.

[Zavulon]

3. Did you see season 2?

If not, I won't spoil it for you, but I liked that guy. He looked like a scumbag at first and turned out to be as good of a guy as they come.

[kay1864]

5. The one who sacrificed himself in the plane crash, you mean?

[Zavulon]

10. Yes.

At first it looked like he was going to leave town like a chicken, but at the end he does that. Great character played by a great actor.

[kay1864]

13. Of course, he was going to die anyway from radiation sickness...

So it wasn't a HUGE sacrifice. And Bill B is a much better manager than he was.

[Zavulon]

20. No, but if I was running that low on time I don't know if I'd even think

of others. I'd probably want to keel over in a sports bar with an unpaid tab. :)

[grace0418]

14. He's married to the woman who played Nina.

24 Love- ain't it romantic?!

[Little Wing]

17. Oooh I was crushing on Nina

just a matter of getting over that evil side

[Zavulon]

19. I'd like to think I'm above envy, but

in this case I'm not. :)

[grace0418]

9. Yeah, I was thinking that Bill actually got off easy. Most heads of CTU are dead

except Jack and Bill. Oh, and that woman who left because her daughter committed suicide.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

21. Speaking of her...

I thought that character nearly derailed Season 4.

I know the show often uses illogical plotlines, but they're usually executed well -- but the thing with her daughter, who, besides being annoying as shit, just happened to be locked up on CTU property? Come on.

Not to mention the actress who played the CTU head would frequently mumble and phone in every performance.

[Squatch]

4. I know that in the military, having spouses or relatives in the chain of command

is a big No-No. It exposes the organization's leadership to accusations of nepotism and favoritism.

[kay1864]

6. In lots of private sector companies as well

Every company I've worked at, either your spouse couldn't work at the company at all, or you couldn't work in the same department/have a reporting relationship.

If the military's that way, I'm guessing the rest of the gummint is as well. So the Karen and Bill situation could never arise in the first place.

That was also the first I'd heard on the show that CTU reported to DHS. I should have realized it though, since all the security-related divisions in the gummint do.

Still, up til then I thought CTU reported to "Division"--whatever that is.

[kay1864]

7. More on "Divisiion"

From Wikipedia:

The Counter Terrorist Unit (CTU) is a fictional elite branch of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) created after the 1993 World Trade Center Attack. Its headquarters are in Washington, D.C. with satellite operations in major cities where threats are likely. CTU's primary mission is to disrupt and destroy foreign and domestic terror cells hostile to the United States, as well as protect the U.S. from terror attacks. With an office in nearly every major city of the U.S., CTU also has a role in creating security policy and fighting groups of organized crime that fund terrorism.<3>

CTU offices are run by a Director, also called the Special Agent in Charge, to whom the Director of Field Operations and the Chief of Staff report. The CTU offices report to a Divisional Office, overseen by the Division Director. Divisional offices cover a larger amount of territory in their jurisdiction. Finally, the Divisional office and all other offices report to a District Headquarters, overseen by a Regional Director. This title implies that each District Headquarters has jurisdiction over an entire region of the United States.

So I guess DHS has supreme oversight or something (since CIA reports to DHS).

Still, according to the above, Bill is not a direct report to Karen. And if THAT'S the case, she had no authority to fire him over the phone, any more than the CEO of my company can fire me directly (at least not without it filtering down through the chain of command first).

[grace0418]

12. He probably would've gotten the word from someone else anyway, they just

had Karen deliver the news (a softer blow, perhaps?). I know she said "I have to fire you" but technically he was probably fired by the division director.

That, and it's 24. Things don't always line up really well on that show. Like, how did Jack manage to relocate his man bag after spending two years in China? Would they really have saved it for him at CTU in some locker?

[kay1864]

15. Jack's man bag is a national treasure

They probably had it in a glass display case at CTU, with a 24-hour guard. I'm sure it went something like this:

Jack: I'm going to need my man bag.
Guard: I'll get it for you sir.
Jack: (whips out his Glock) DON'T TOUCH MY BAG!

:P

[grace0418]

8. Well, I think both Karen and Bill were in their respective positions before they

fell in love and married. I don't know what the rules are there, but it's not like she hired him or anything. I also think that Bill doesn't technically report to Karen, but in this instance her authority supersedes the authority of his boss at "Division" (wherever that is). Under normal circumstances he probably would've been fired by a different person, but because of the timing and perhaps a certain amount of deference to the fact that they are married had Karen wielding the ax.

I don't hate Karen, but think she could've worded it differently. I'm thinking if she had resigned in order to protect Bill, they probably would've fired him anyway and then they'd both be out of work. But the way she said it to Bill sounded selfish.

[soleft]

11. CTU was taken over by Homeland Security Office last year

Karen was not too likeable when she first came on board and basically tried to boot everyone out, I forget why she was forced to hold onto Bill and Cloe, but he almost got canned last year as well.

[azmouse]

16. I'd like to know how they did that investigation so fast.

Hell, in real life it took a year to get an investigation into 9/11 and no one was held responsible, yet on 24 it's very late at night and someone has to take the fall for some obscure mistake that happen years ago?
If Buchanan or someone had to be fired don't you think it could have waited? Everything in the country is in disarray. It could be months until things settled down enough after the explosions for anyone to look into who was ultimately responsible.

And what is up with the bad guys ALWAYS getting away? Why don't they do an investigation into how CTU is always screwing that up? :eyes:

[kay1864]

18. Yep, I was thinking the same thing

I mean, it's not like the press is going to hear about a years-old story at 1 in the morning. His firing could have waited until the morning. OTOH this season ends at 6 am, so the writers had to fit it in :P

As for the bad guys, well we don't see what CTU does the other 364 days of the year. We only see the screwups 'cause it makes for good drama.

[Little Wing]

22. You mean the days aren't consecutive?

:D

[kay1864]

23. Heh.

That's one helluva week! :P