Name an athlete who's worth what he's/she's paid

[Oeditpus Rex]

*crickets*

[NightWatcher]

1. they are all worth whatever they can get

If the boss will pay it, the players deserve it.

Get as much as you can is the name of the game, isnt it?

[Oeditpus Rex]

3. Uh, no...

Not my game, anyway.

Are all those corporate CEOs worthy of mega-millions bonuses, too?

[northzax]

50. not a fair comparison

professional athletes on the team sports are employees, not bosses. Sure, A-Rod is an incredibly wealthy employee, but someone else sets his salary. a CEO basically has rigged the game to set his own salary.

[Oeditpus Rex]

55. If we can compare athletes and teachers, etc.

it's not an unfair comparison.

If you're going to take the line that CEOs rig their salaries, it follows that they rig everyone else's. Anyway, I don't follow the premise, because even CEOs have to answer to boards of directors and/or stockholders.

[northzax]

60. but...

the CEOs who make the really ridiculous money basically set their own salaries, they pick the people on the compensation committee, for instance.

[jobycom]

67. Obviously yes.

They aren't worth that much to me, but they are worth it to whomever is paying them.

Anyway, who cares how some rich investors blow their cash? I go to casinos and play quarter slots, they go to stockholder meetings and blow hundreds of thousands of dollars. They'd just donate it to some Republican candidate anyway. Let them pay whomever they want whatever they want. It keeps them off the streets.

[Deep13]

6. So, whoever dies with the most toys wins?

What a sad commentary on life.

[NightWatcher]

7. no, but the owners make a shit load off of the players

so why not get all you can. Would any athlete ever turn down money? No.
Greed is a very bad thing and if a player ever trys to get to much the owner says "hell no" and doesnt pay them.
I charge as much as I can per the market that I work in (except for special needs and friend cases). Would you want to make as much as you can in your position. I dont mean be an evil snot, but just ask for what you're worth.

[Deep13]

9. From the point of view of one business...

...they may be worth it. From the point of view of society, allocating the kind of resources that owners and players get to a form of entertainment is a pretty bizarre way to run a railroad.

[NightWatcher]

13. I think that the money that they make opposed to teachers is shameful

Teachers are much more important that ball players. I was looking at it from the position of how much money an athlete brings to an organization vs. their share of the money. For example, one year I brought in more than 100K of business for a boss, when it came time to renegotiate salary, I based my request on that figure.

[Oeditpus Rex]

19. I don't see how that can be computed with athletes

See my post #14.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Agreed.

Athletes get big bucks because their audience is willing to buy tickets to watch them play.

I don't see why people get so upset everytime an athlete gets a record breaking contract. It's like they think it's tax money or something.

[WeRQ4U]

17. This I cannot agree with...

While I agree that the name of the game is to get as much as you can (and I sure as hell would too if I were them) I cannot subscribe to the view that this means they are "worth" the amount they are paid. Some deals are simply bad.

I feel that many ARE worth it. But just as many are overpaid.

You can't tell me that Troy Hudson of the Minnesota Timberwolves is worth 6 million dollars. People don't come to see Troy Hudson play and even if they did, they wouldn't because his ass is firmly seated on the bench 99% of the time.

That contract may have been what someone would PAY...but it's most definitely not what he was WORTH.

[WCGreen]

37. But the boss doesn't pay...

You and I do...

the boss get's the city, you and I, to foot the bill for the stadium, convention center, whatever and so the true relationship between supply and demand is gone, poof...

And most of the owners are Republicans who are aghast that anyone would want the government to pay for Health care but have no compunction what so ever to rape the poorest people so they can have a trophy business...

Oh yea, they are all scum....

Socialize the costs and privatize the benifits...

Fuckin' robber barons...

[gravity]

69. Exactly

If a boss is willing to pay the salary, that means the player is worth that much to the boss.

[RevolutionaryActs]

2. Babe Ruth...

:shrug:



:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

11. Silly girl

I meant currently. :eyes:

Ruth's peak salary was $80,000, in 1930 and '31. In constant 2005 dollars, that's a little more than a million. So, by today's standards, he was well worth it — especially since the Yankees were the first major league club to go over 1,000,000 in attendance in 1920, when they played at the Polo Grounds, capacity 34,000.

Since ball clubs typically drew about half a million per season in those days, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say Ruth was responsible for the other half-million. Seats were about a buck then, so figure the Yankees got back maybe $500,000 from their investment — which, again in constant 2005 dollars, would be about $6 million.

(The classic line: When Ruth signed the $80,000 contract, a sportswriter said, "You're making more than the president (Hoover)." Depending on which version you believe, Ruth replied either "I had a better year than he did" or "I'm hitting better, too.")



Aren't you glad I'm around to explain all this crap? :D

[RevolutionaryActs]

15. Oh yes!

I like learning new things. :bounce:

[Deep13]

4. Tonya Harding

[NewJeffCT]

5. Most athletes in big-time college basketball & football are worth what they are paid

:hide:

[MissMillie]

10. they are because we're willing to pay it

if tickets didn't sell, and games didn't get any TV ratings, then players and owners wouldn't make any money.

supply and demand

[Oeditpus Rex]

14. But is that because of individual athletes

or the public's insatiable desire for all entertainment, all the time?

I don't believe mass marketing equals value.

[MissMillie]

21. I don't know

but if the Super Bowl got a smaller Neilsen share, that effect would ripple to advertising (no more $5 million for a 30 second ad), which would decrease revenues, which would decrease salaries--players and management.

If the Red Sox didn't sell out all the time, they couldn't get away with the ticket prices they charge. That would have an effect on revenues too. And if the seats were not filled, the people who buy advertising space at Fenway Park would pay less for their advertising, and again less revenue, etc...

I really do believe this is fan-driven. One way to tell is comparing salaries across sports... the more popular the sport, the higher the salaries. Hockey players, on average, do not make what football players do (despite the fact that they play a lot more games).

[Oeditpus Rex]

25. That leads back to my OP

Does the Super Bowl get such high ratings and demand such ad rates because (1.) it's the Super Bowl, (2.) who's playing, or (3.) who the quarterbacks are?

Do the Sox sell out because (1.) they have perhaps the best fans in baseball, (2.) Fenway seats only 38,800 or (3.) because of Ramirez or Schilling or somebody? Some ballplayers put more butts in seats, but are they paid in proportion to that increased revenue to the club?

How much do individual players contribute to a franchise's success — which, in this business sense, must be considered as financial — and are they paid accordingly? That's the question.

I'd guess the reason NHL players don't make as much as NFLers is the NFL has a stronger union and a better collective-bargaining contract.

[bumblebee1]

39. Some ballplayers put butts in the seats.

Some of those players are from the visiting team ala Michael Jordan.

[Oeditpus Rex]

57. True

Willie Mays, for example — it was shown during his career that he was actually more valuable, in terms of attendance above the norm, to ball clubs the Giants were visiting than to the Giants themselves.

The logic is simple: In baseball, the home fans have 81 chances per season to say "Let's go to the Giants game because Bonds might hit one." On the road, it's a maximum of nine such chances.

[NoGOPZone]

12. All of them nt.

[Tektonik]

16. All of them

[Shakespeare]

18. Well, compared to their peers, there are some baseball players NOT being paid what they're worth.

A few on my team--Kotsay, Kielty. Former Athletic who never gets the $$ he deserves--Eric Byrnes (now with Arizona).

[leftofthedial]

20. amateurs are the only athlete's

worth what they're paid

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

22. My Kid...

Showed a lot of improvement in basketball in the 3rd-5th Grade League.

Doesn't have a dime to show for it, although we did buy him a new pair of sneakers.

So I guess that was worth it.

[taterguy]

23. Lance Armstrong

The amount that he's been paid is dwarfed by the amount that he's raised for cancer research. He's also provided hope and inspiration to millions of people.

Call me crazy but I think that's a good thing.

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. It's a good thing

But cycling isn't a "money" sport, much like track and field.

Not coincidentally, both are greatly under-appreciated in the U.S.

[taterguy]

27. Lance makes millions

I'd give my left nut to make his kind of money.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

[Arkham House]

26. Albert Pujols, david Ortiz, Johan Santana...

...to name three...

[kwolf68]

28. Two come to mind

Dikemba Mutumbo and Lual Deng (both NBA players, both names I butcherd)...but both of these guys are making their money so they can help other people in their native Africa.

When I see guys like Mutumbo dedicating his entire life and a good bit of his fortune to helping others I say GO GET THE MONEY fella.

[6000eliot]

29. Name an "owner" who is worth the money they're raking in.

The athletes are the ones drawing the crowds that get the money. The owners sit on their asses and collect. Profit equals unpaid labor.

[Oeditpus Rex]

58. That wasn't the question, though

Start your own damned thread. :P

[Chan790]

30. If he keeps pitching like he did today...

Daisuke Matsuzaka.

7IP, 1 R, 1 ER, 6 H, 10 K. Two great fielding plays...oh and the rumors about the 10 pitch repertoire...true. 20+ more starts like today and he'll win the Cy Young unanimously. Can't really explain it...you have to see it, he's really that much better than any pitcher in modern post-strike MLB. A different stratosphere. The numbers don't do it justice. He gave up a HR to a guy who admitted he was flailing and didn't see the pitch he hit. He decided in the 6th inning that it was time to switch from the slider to the cut fastball and the 4-seam fast ball to the split-finger fastball and proceeded to strike out the side just one inning after it looked like he was about to get the hook.

[blondeatlast]

31. Steve Nash. I'm taking the question at face value, not arguing whether it's right or not.

His salary (10,500,000) is pretty middling considering his value.

It's still astronimical, but if we're willing to pay to watch, I can't argue, and I'm a die-hard hoops fan.

[Drum]

41. With you all the way as far as Mr. Nash is concerned.

:thumbsup:

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. The coach coordinator for my son's soccer league.

More than worth his meager salary. And the cutest British accent too. Oh, and his legs are quite nice. Yep, they need to pay him more.

[erpowers]

33. From a Business Point of View

I think if you look at it from a business stand point many of the athletes are worth what they are paid. For the athletes who play team sports they bring in people who pay to see the sport. As a result, the sports make money and the players are entitled to a part of that money in that they are part of the reason the money is being made. It would not be fair to say a sports industry makes billions of dollars and only pays the players a few thousand dollars. I think it was said that the sports industry makes about 21 billion a year. If the players are only paid a little money than the owners take all the money. It would not be right for the players not to get some of the money. For athletes like Tiger Woods they are worth the money in that they make a large amount of money for companies. Tiger Woods causes many people to go to events and buy certain brands like Nike.

It is sad that teachers do not get paid a great deal of money for the job they do, but we must realize that teachers are not making anyone great deals of money. If teacher were making money for people than they would be getting paid great deals of money.

[Connonym]

34. It has to be said -- Brett Favre

I'd think he was worth it if all he did was wear tight pants and smile. But I am known to be a dirty old woman.

[Jimbo S]

35. Fawning over Republicans again, are you?

:hi:

[Connonym]

45. eww, really?

[Jimbo S]

88. I'm afraid so

FWIW, for 25 cents I'll let you check me out in tight pants. No need to pay me millions. A better bargain!

[Connonym]

90. I'm so jaded now that I'll first require you to sign an oath of Democratic loyalty

n/t

[Jimbo S]

92. How about an oath of loyalty to the Church Of Connonym?

[Connonym]

93. Church of the Subgenius

http://www.subgenius.com/


I didn't mention that I was Connie Dobbs?

[KamaAina]

36. John Tavares

star of the National Lacrosse League's Buffalo Bandits.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2416805&type=story

The most prolific scorer in the history of the National Lacrosse League felt more relief than elation the day after he set the record last month.

John Tavares got a double dose of good news in a 24-hour span. First, the Buffalo Bandits' forward notched the goal that put him ahead of the legendary Gary Gait. Just a few hours later, Tavares' wife, Katrina, who had watched the accomplishment from the stands, went into labor with their first child -- two weeks early. That prompted a wild, high-speed trip back to their home outside Toronto, where baby Justin arrived safely....

Though Justin's birth far overshadowed any between-the-lines developments, it's still worth noting that the unassuming Tavares has now scored 549 career goals and dished out 587 assists in 179 games over the last 15 years for a record 1,136 points, eclipsing Gait's mark of 1,091....

The league, which just completed its 20th season, is stocked with moonlighters who are the definition of working-class athletes: cops, firefighters, brokers, bankers, electricians and teachers like Tavares. They make a modest second living. The NLL's average salary is $14,000, with a ceiling of just over $23,000; rookies earn $6,000. The players are currently in the second year of a three-year collective bargaining agreement.

I'll bet your league's all-time leading scorer makes more than $23,000 -- even if the sport is tiddlywinks!

[jakefrep]

47. A-Rod

For all the ignorant shit he hears from the Yankee fans.

[Mojambo]

38. See any Mixed Martial Artist.

Most of these guys have incredibly short careers and make shockingly little money.

Although as it becomes more mainstream this is changing.

[Drum]

40. Derek Jeter

[ellisonz]

42. Tommy Lasorda.

[GirlinContempt]

43. Thank you for this depressing end to my night

[reyd reid reed]

44. There's gotta be some out there...

law of averages would say so.

Damned if I can think of one, though.

:shrug:

[SKKY]

46. The only 3 athletes I can think of that deserved what they were paid...

...are:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Lance Armstrong
3. Tiger Woods

[regularguy]

48. No one who has a boss is overpaid.

There are, however, a shitload of people who are *way* under-taxed, including probably every professional athlete.

[grace0418]

85. One of my three bosses (who has a boss herself) is COMPLETELY overpaid.

She is utterly and completely useless. She lied and backstabbed her way into her job and now has no idea what she's doing. Of course the CEO will never admit he was suckered into promoting her so she'll keep her job and her big salary until she really fucks something up. Meanwhile the rest of us are stuck with her, and keep getting blamed for her mistakes.

So I guess I would have to disagree with you there.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

49. Takeru 'The Tsunami' Kobayashi

Anyone who can eat hotdogs like that deserves the big bucks.

It should be an olympic sport.

[northzax]

51. every golfer, tennis player, track and field athlete

they are independant contracters, they make exactly what someone thinks they are worth every single week. you have a bad week, you don't get paid. simple as that.

[Oeditpus Rex]

61. I was about to make this point

in reply to ALiberalSailor's post. I think the athletes you mention should be disqualified from this debate to some extent because their agents don't sit down with a GM and hammer out a deal. They play for purses. Granted, the purse may be higher simply because they're in the event (if it's attendance-driven), but that has nothing to do with an agent's negotiating skills, nor does it depend on their performance. How much of the purse they get, though, does. And there's no threat of going elsewhere if their demands aren't met.

[northzax]

64. heck, every other PGA member

should pay a tax to Tiger, he's underpaid compared to the effect he has had on the sport and revenues. everyone else in the game makes buckets more because of him.

[Oeditpus Rex]

65. Granted, but

someone like that comes along in every sport every 25 years or so. In golf, there was Jack Nicklaus and, before him, Arnold Palmer, and maybe some between Nicklaus and Woods that I'm not aware of.

But I am aware that Woods' effect on golf is largely because of his skin color, coupled with the fact that golf isn't a "black sport." But I'm not prepared to discuss what that says about our society. (Actually, I am — but this thread isn't about that.)

I have to wonder, though, if Arthur Ashe had a similar effect on tennis.

[northzax]

66. race is certainly part of it

but Tiger's influence also derives from the fact that he took a fairly stodgy game and blew it away quickly. he is handsome, charming, and yes, Cabalasian. People simply like him. and the way he plays is exciting to watch, people who don't normally take the time to watch golf will watch when he plays (if he is out of contention on Sunday, ratings plummet, people want to see Tiger) He's so influential that tournaments he doesn't play are in financial trouble.

Ashe didn't have the same financial effect, but then Tiger came in as part of a perfect storm in golf: a retiring generation of superstars (Nicklaus, Palmer), new technology (ironically much of it from military sources) just reaching the general population, networks looking for new things to cover and posessing the technology to make golf watchable, and Nike wanting to get into Golf. add the charismatic thrill ride that is Tiger Woods, and boom.

[Oeditpus Rex]

70. Don't get me started on technology

I think Callaway needs a good ass-whoopin' — or, rather, the PGA does for allowing such drastic equipment changes (while they fought Casey Martin's use of a cart all the way to the Supreme Court). Clubs nowadays are like baseball allowing titanium bats. Hell, I could hit a golf ball 300 yards with one o' them monster-headed suckers, and the longest drive I ever hit was about 220.

Your other points are well-taken.

[northzax]

72. and long drives, like home runs

sell tickets. it's actually an interesting story, basically, our 'peace dividend' from the cold war ending was ridiculous golf clubs.

[Oeditpus Rex]

74. I'm ambivalent to homers

Homers in general and moon shots. A ball that goes 500 feet is worth the same number of runs as one that goes 400, or even 330, depending on where it's hit. And almost all of 'em are majestic, no matter how far they go.

As for homers in general, a well-timed one is a thing to behold (see Kirk Gibson, 1988; Bobby Thompson, 1951; et al), but the homer mania of recent years got kinda ridiculous. A couple of homers a game is one thing, but six or seven takes something from their speciality.

Anyway, I much prefer a hit-and-run offense. Hell, I even applauded Barry Bonds the other day when he singled through third against the shift, then stole second.



Edit for hypocrisy: I wasn't at all ambivalent late last season when the Dodgers hit four straight homers in the ninth to tie San Diego, then Garciaparra hit one in the 10th to win it. :D

[Awsi Dooger]

89. Race has very little to do with Tiger Woods' success

His record is astounding. He brought dominance back into the sport when it desperately needed it, after a decade or more of very good players like Faldo who won more with precision than power. Tiger also gave a feel of athleticism and dedication. The sport was on the verge of a surge with increasing number of participants and manufacturers and sponsors and new equipment but it desperately needed a visible superstar and Tiger came around at the ideal time.

If Tiger were pure white but with the same skills and resume I doubt there would be 1% difference in attention or purses or anything else. He is a phenom who transcends. Plus, the numbers of minorities who have taken up golf or are watching it due to Tiger is dramatically overstated. I've seen many reports that it basically hasn't changed.

Arthur Ashe was a phenomenal person and excellent player but his race similarly had very little impact on tennis in the '70s. He was generally a second tier player who won a few biggies like the Open and the '75 Wimbledon.

I don't understand threads like this, asserting athletes are overpaid. Many reports say the salaries could safely be doubled in some major sports. I've had friends from college work for professional franchises and they have told me the intake is surreal, so many sources of revenue that isn't obvious or reported by the media. I think every athlete is worth every penny and then some. For one thing, consider how many of their contemporaries blew out a knee, or worse, en route to the big cash. The ones who persevered and got the breaks deserve to be compensated.

[Tyler Durden]

52. Non-Sequitur

NO athlete is worth what they are paid.

To paraphrase Boris Pasternak: Sport is no more a profession than good health. What those people need is a JOB.

Then again, I'm a Socialist.

[Zuiderelle]

53. What a weird name for an athlete, he must have had it legally changed.

[Tyler Durden]

54. Ha. Ha. That's very logical. Hmmmmmm?

Not a snark. A response from a computer in a comedy routine.

[Zuiderelle]

56. ?

I thought my response was humorous. You didn't? I can't tell from your response. :shrug:

[Tyler Durden]

73. Oh yes! I was just being Droll.

Don't mind me...I'm a past master of the obscure. Damn shame we couldn't clone Pelosi and run one of her, isn't it?

[Oeditpus Rex]

62. So am I

Which is probably why I think this way. :crazy:

[RedStateShame]

59. Sheray Thomas, University of Kentucky forward

[dajoki]

63. Tiger Woods

[gravity]

68. They are worth their value to the team

Great players are a scarce resource, so teams will invest millions of dollars to obtain them. When you set a price on a player, you aren't comparing the player by themselves, you are comparing them to the next best athelete for their position.

If a player can help win more games compared to the next best one, teams are going to pay a lot of money to keep them on their team or else they could lose the star player to another team.

[wildhorses]

71. thinking----

still thinking...

[Yavin4]

75. Ginger Lynn

And if you think that what she did didn't require being an athlete, let me see you do it.

[Oeditpus Rex]

76. I dunno

Who is she? :shrug:

[Yavin4]

80. That's why God Invented the Internets

Just run a search for her on the tubes.

[Oeditpus Rex]

81. Is it gonna bring up somethin' naughty?

:scared:

[Yavin4]

Yes. Very, Very Naughty

Very, very, very naughty.

[Oeditpus Rex]

83. Porn star bla bla bla

Abusive childhood bla bla bla abusive relationships bla bla bla drug use bla bla bla...




OMG!!!11 SHE DATED CHARLIE SHEEN!!!11 :scared:




Seriously — I do vaguely remember the name Ginger Lynn Allen and the film "The Grafenberg Spot." Back then, I read the SF Chronicle's "Pinkie" entertainment section on Sundays. The Mitchell Brothers' O'Farrell Theatre was a regular advertiser.

[northzax]

82. yup.

sure will.

[Yavin4]

77. Name an Actor or Musician who's worth what they're paid

Why should Mick Jagger, Tom Cruise, or Beyonce make the money that they make? Why restrict your question to athletes? Why single them out when other entertainers make a heck of lot more money for doing far less work.

ARod has to play 162 games of baseball to make the same amount as George Clooney makes for one movie.

[u4ic]

78. The vast majority of actors and musicians

out there make a pittance.

[Yavin4]

79. The Same Is True For the Vast Majority of Pro Athletes

The WNBA, beach volleyball, real pro wrestling, professional soccer players, professional lacrosse players, Arena Football players, pro bowlers, pro golfers, pro race car drivers, most of them make a pittance as well.

[RedStateShame]

87. Yeah, but George Clooney doesn't flub his lines when it really counts...

OH, SNAP!! :rofl:

[Mutley]

84. None that I can think of.

I really just wanted to say hi.

:hi:

[jpgray]

86. Whichever one can cure the sick, feed the hungry, and jump really high

[Broken_Hero]

91. This is an easy one...

ME....I'm free!

:D

[judaspriestess]

94. Tim Duncan - San Antonio Spurs

:)