Rapist Spared Jail As Judge Agrees That Girl, 10, Looked Older

[matcom]

<snip>

A man who raped a 10-year-old girl was spared a jail sentence yesterday after a High Court judge agreed that the victim looked older.

Describing the case as "wholly exceptional", Mr Justice Roderick Evans said he understood why Liam Edgecombe, a 20-year-old painter, had thought that the child was 16 when they had sex last year.

Edgecombe, who was charged with rape, had entered a guilty plea on a basis accepted by the prosecution - that he believed she was 16, that she was presented as a person of that age and that he was entirely shocked to find out she was only 10.

He was granted a conditional discharge for 18 months but, apart from having to register with the police as a sex offender, no further punishment was imposed on him.

Swansea Crown Court heard how the girl was in the care of a local authority when she was taken on a shopping trip to a branch of Tesco on November 24 last year. Chris Clee, prosecuting, said she pretended to go to the lavatory and took her chance to "disappear".

That night she met Edgecombe outside a pub in the centre of Haverfordwest, west Wales, and he invited her back to his nearby flat in Hill Street, where they had intercourse twice.

Mr Clee said Edgecombe raised the subject of the girl's age but she asked him: "Does it matter?"

He said there was no doubt the girl consented to sex but because of her age the offence amounted to rape.

<snip>

Judge Evans viewed photographs of the girl before deciding on a non-custodial sentence, and told the accused: "She was a girl of 10 and you are a man of 20. Those bald facts do not properly represent the true facts of this case.

"The prosecution accepts that you believed she was 16 and that that belief was reasonable. She was looking for a man and got what she wanted."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/05/nrape05.xml

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. Oh sweet criminy!

[amitten]

2. Hmm...

:popcorn:

[tk2kewl]

3. TTIUWOP

:hide:

[Shell Beau]

4. I swear some girls these days do look way older than they are.

Not saying it was the 10 year olds fault at all. Where were her parents? Why was she outside of a pub at the age of 10?

[angstlessk]

6. It says she snuck away n/t

[Shell Beau]

7. But they are respsonsible by how she dresses, etc.

I don't even know what the child looks like. She may just look 16. :shrug: Is this a no blame situation? I mean if the guy "thought" she was 16 and she looked and presented her self as such... :shrug: This is a toughie! Sad for the 10 year old!

[angstlessk]

11. It seems the blame is on a 10 year old for looking 16???

My question is NOT if she looked 16...why the HELL is a 10 year old looking for SEX AT ALL???? It may well be she has been abused at home...I think much is unknown here!

Edit: one little letter can change the meaning of it all!

[Shell Beau]

14. That is why I think they should look to the parents!

Why is a 10 year old even thinking of sneaking out? And why did she go to a pub? Most 10 year olds wouldn't do that. I think the parents need to be questioned.

[angstlessk]

5. So if you are 10 and LOOK 10 its a crime, but if you ARE 10

but look 16 is's NOT a crime??? IS THERE LOGIC THERE SOMEWHERE? Cause if there is I do not see it???

[Shell Beau]

8. No, the point is that the guy had no way of telling that she wasn't 16.

He didn't (supposedly) know he was commiting a crime.

[skygazer]

12. Except the fact that when he asked, she said "Does it matter?"

C'mon, if that doesn't tell you she's jailbait, what does?

[Shell Beau]

15. I don't know if that is necessarily true because it seems to me it would

be easier to just lie. It sounds like she was being flirtatious. Again I am not blaming her at all. She is only 10 and I think this is just a sad story. But I think the parents are at fault here somehow. The article said he was so distraught to find out she was 10. I just think this whole thing sounds screwy. I am sure he wasn't thinking a 10 year old would be hanging out at a pub!

[LostinVA]

17. Yup -- red flags all over this

[skygazer]

9. Okay, guy asks girl how old she is

Girl says, "Does it matter?" Guy screws girl, proving that obviously it doesn't matter to him.

Somehow, it seems to me that if he's asking, he doesn't quite think she's of age. And if she's not answering, she probably isn't.

Hope to god she's not pregnant now because neither one of them sounds smart enough to be breeding.

[Shell Beau]

13. Not so sure I agree. The fact that he asked to me means he did care

of her age.

[skygazer]

18. Well, it seems that if he really cared, he would have wanted more of an answer

And if it really mattered, he wouldn't have done it when she asked him, "does it matter?"

I mean, that reply right there insinuates to me that she's not of age. Which isn't to say I'm casting blame anywhere really - the whole situation sounds pretty pathetic to me. She must be a pretty precocious 10 year old to pass as 16 and be trolling for sex and he was no doubt thinking with his dick.

[Shell Beau]

20. Obviously! He is 20!! I find it so sad she was able to sneak out and that

she went to a pub!! :wtf: Why would a 10 year old do that? I am really wondering about her parents!

[Lil Missy]

30. It doesn't matter to a 20 year old male. He just wants to get laid.

The real story here is that a 10 year old GIRL, as in CHILD, already had some propensity to have sex. Where did she learn that? And that is the story here.

[Shell Beau]

32. My issue is with that also. Something isn't right!

[asthmaticeog]

19. Yeah, but...

...the fact that he accepted "Does it matter?" as an answer suggests otherwise at the same time. That his response to that was to go for it instead of saying "Hell yeah, it friggin' matters!" shows that he was more culpable than the judge is giving him blame for.

[Shell Beau]

21. I try to put myself in his situation. A gal hanging outside of a pub who

is presenting herself to be much older than she is and is at a PUB!! Would I think she was only 10? Even if she said does it matter. He could have very well taken that as her being coy and cute!

[Lil Missy]

10. I have to wonder WHY a 10 year old would even be THINKING about sex.

There is another story behind this, and it is not a pretty one.

[AngryAmish]

23. If a 10 year old is post-pubescent then they would have sexual thoughts

I am in no way defending this guy but I think if a ten year old is sexually mature (not emotionally) then having sexual thoughts is only natural.

[Shell Beau]

24. But a 10 year old having those thoughts and actually acting on them

are 2 different things IMO!

[AngryAmish]

25. Ten year olds are awful foolish

They are ten for Pete's sake. If one puts premature sexual maturity plus sexual abuse then bad things are going to happen.

[Shell Beau]

26. That is my point! I believe there is more to this story than she being

a mature 10 year old. 10 year olds don't go looking for sex.

[skygazer]

I had friends who lost their virginity at 13

They came from perfectly normal, happy homes. They were sexually mature and curious. I lost mine at 15. Same thing.

This kid is young but it's not unheard of for a girl to be sexually mature at that age. And it's not unheard of for a kid to sneak out looking for some action. Maybe her parents are clueless but I wouldn't be so quick to blame them. Kids grow up fast and sometimes it's hard for parents to see that they've done it because there's still much of the child in them and that's what the parent sees.

[Shell Beau]

28. To me there is a world of difference in a 10 year old and a 13 year old.

It may just be 3 years but a lot happens in those 3 years. I had my first kiss at 13 but would have never dreamed of doing so at 10. I don't believe all 10 year olds are the same, but for the most part, young girls develop "sexually" a little bit further down the road like 13-15!

[skygazer]

29. For the most part

But not always. We're not talking about "most" - we're talking about this one kid. And it seems she's developed rather early. I don't understand what the argument is.

[Shell Beau]

31. I think her parents are responsible by how she dresses. And I also

think that there may be some earlier abuse that could have led to her going and looking for sex at age 10. Even if she developed at a young age, it is the fact that she snuck out and went to a pub possibly looking for sex. Something is wrong with that picture.

[dropkickpa]

33. Don't think she was in parents care

It sounds like she was in some sort of home, perhaps she was a runaway or foster kid of some sort, needless to say she has a few issues.

Swansea Crown Court heard how the girl was in the care of a local authority when she was taken on a shopping trip to a branch of Tesco on November 24 last year. Chris Clee, prosecuting, said she pretended to go to the lavatory and took her chance to "disappear".

[Shell Beau]

36. Ahh, that makes a little more sense! I read the article but kinda read it fast!!

:P

[Lil Missy]

27. I disagree, and I also think post-pubescent at 10 is pretty rare.

That is almost unheard of at 10.

And, being post-pubescent does not translate into immediate sexual thoughts either.

[Schema Thing]

45. There is no standard age for humans to become sexually aware

And some humans are more or less so even from birth.

Myself, I pretty much never had a sexual thought until one day around the age of thirteen, from whence I never went another moment w/o a sexual thought, lol.

But my experience is not your experience, and your experience is not anyone else' experience.

[El Fuego]

16. But it was apparently "statutory rape," not a violent crime.

[Tektonik]

22. creepy

must be the oldest looking 10 yr old of all time, or a really fucked up judge :scared: , either way it's creepy

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. You guys are totally missing an important point

Swansea Crown Court heard how the girl was in the care of a local authority when she was taken on a shopping trip to a branch of Tesco on November 24 last year. Chris Clee, prosecuting, said she pretended to go to the lavatory and took her chance to "disappear".

This girl was in foster care, which means she had been removed from her home, most likely, if I can infer the circumstances correctly, because someone in the house was sexually abusing her.

Now frequent sexual activity is known to stimulate the production of estrogen, so her early physical maturity in this case may have been the result of the abuse, and her abuser may also have led her to believe that she was "good for nothing else."

That being said, the guy should have had some common sense and suspected that a young girl who wouldn't give her age was most likely underage.

[skygazer]

35. Ahhh... I didn't click on the link

Bummer.

[Shell Beau]

37. I actually read the article but may have read it too quickly!

[asthmaticeog]

38. Common sense - there's the rub.

That's not a commodity one finds in very many horny 20 year old guys. I agree, though, he should have turned his heels when she gave her non-answer as to the question of her age. Going by the information that's available and a few reasonable inferences therefrom, there's *nothing* about this case that isn't sad and fucked up, on either side of it.

[ThomCat]

39. That is an important point.

It's almost certain that she had been abused previously.

This man is now a registered sex offender. That's going to follow him. I hope that is enough to make him very, very strict about checking the age of his partners from now on. Even better, I hope he has lost his taste for one night stands with strangers.

I hope the girl is getting therapy. I'm guessing that she definitely needs it.

What a horrible situation all around.

[philosophie_en_rose]

40. Statutory rape is a strict liability crime.

Intent doesn't matter.

Even if she was 16, he's still 20.

[AllegroRondo]

41. age of consent in England is 16

so if she really was 16, there would be no crime.

[Xithras]

42. Been there, I can sympathize a bit.

When I was 17 I met a young woman at a party and we hit it off. She looked 15 or 16, she told me that she was 15, and the girl who was with her claimed that she was 15. We drank, we partied, and later that night we ended up having some wild and quite consensual sex. I found out later that she was 12...and just barely 12 at that.

Believe me, that night bugged the crap out of me for YEARS, but short of refusing sex until she ponied up a photo ID, I don't really know what I could have done differently (short of forgoing sex, which no 17 year old boy is going to do when it's offered). I'm quite aware that some people would consider me an evil prig based on that confession, but I was just a guy who got lied to. Happens all the time.

If she claimed to be of legal age, and she appeared to be of legal age, and the intercourse was consensual, and he had no other reason to suspect that she was lying, then the charges should have been dropped.

[skygazer]

43. Yeah, I know it's not a popular view but I do have ambivalent feelings about some of these cases

Underage kids are capable of consenting to sex, whether anyone believes that's right or wrong. While I think that people who actually prey on them are contemptible, things like you describe are not unusual events. And girls do tend to mature a little faster than boys so the boys do tend to be older. When an 18 year old boy has sex with his 15 year old girlfriend, is that rape? I don't really think so and I don't think it's fair for him to be branded a sex offender.

Hunkering down for the flames. :hide:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

44. You know, carding is not a bad idea...

I know it's kind of a mood-deflator; but maybe promiscuous girls should be carded when their age is in question...

Some legal-age girls might be put off; but that would beat jail time, no?

[Xithras]

46. The problem with teens is that not all had ID.

Even if you wanted to push that concept, I doubt it would work. When I was younger, the only kids with ID's were those who had their licenses. Very, very few teenagers bothered to trudge down to the DMV and apply for a state ID. Heck, my own wife didn't get her license until she was 24 and we were already married!

Besides, you also have the safety issue. Do you really think it's wise for women to show their license to total strangers, men they just met, and provide them with their birthdate, their address, their drivers license number, and even their weight?

[skygazer]

47. Not to mention the fact that I had a fake ID at 15

Nothing is certain.

[Xithras]

48. Good point.

I had my first at about the same age.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

49. My older son had to have one so he could cash checks...

It's called an "Age of Majority" ID or somesuch, and he got his when he was 16. And it's a lot more difficult to fake IDs these days, with laser marks and so on. It would not be difficult to tell which are fake.

As to safety issues, I'd say it's not particularly wise to have sex with someone you just met...whether you're male or female. An exchange of IDs might be good all the way around.

[skygazer]

50. I doubt if most 20 year old guys are experts at telling whether an ID's fake

You're absolutely right that they shouldn't be having sex with strangers at all and I'm firmly of the notion that if you're not sure of the age, run like hell!

At that age, they're all still kids and not really thinking about much except for scoring. ~sigh~

[GoddessOfGuinness]

52. The thing is, this guy thought he WAS sure of her age.

Though if he was that desperate, he'd probably want to believe a fake ID was real.

Ya play with fire and ya get burned...

[mark414]

51. aye, me as well

although i was 19 at the time. i had met a girl who was hanging out with a buddy of mine one day. she told me she was 18, my buddy told me she was 18 (cause that's what she told him), her friend told me she was 18 (though her friend knew otherwise...). so i thought she was 18. the group of us went back to my place, she pulled me into my room, you can finish the story yourself...

but i found out a week later that she was 15, and some way or another her dad found out and wanted to come after me until she apparently convinced him to get off it...lucky me, i could've had to register as a sex offender for life.

[VenusRising]

53. You can't really look to the parents in this case.

"Swansea Crown Court heard how the girl was in the care of a local authority when she was taken on a shopping trip to a branch of Tesco on November 24 last year. Chris Clee, prosecuting, said she pretended to go to the lavatory and took her chance to "disappear"."

She was in the care of a local authority. I think there is more to the story, but the fact that she is in custody and not with her parents does force questions to your mind about the girl's history.

I don't agree with the judge in this case. It looks like this girl is going to fall through the cracks of the system, yet again.

Did the judge have leniency because it was covering for a local authority? Nothing seems to add up here.