Why can't folks just talk to a pretty woman without being jerk offs????

[The Straight Story]

So last week my wife wanted to go out. She has been in bed mostly for 3 months, sick with Parkinson's and depression. On top of that we have been through hell over 2 years with deaths and other things.

She felt she was no longer pretty, not worth anything, etc and so on. No baby sitter (we only let a select few people we know watch our daughter). So I offered to take her to the local watering hole and drop her off so she could dance and talk to people.

She put on her makeup, wore some nice clothes, and got out of the house.

And men were on her like flies. She is 5'8", long red hair, large green eyes - and smart on everything from Hockey to civil war history, from medical things to art and it's many forms and history.

Sure, they wanted to talk for a few minutes. Then they wanted her. To go home with them, go out with them, etc and so on.

When she told people she had worked at an aids clinic, passed out needles to hookers, and so on - they were impressed but didn't want to talk about it, they just 'wanted' her as an object more.

She listened to them, offered them advice (having been a counselor she is used to doing that), and was just nice to any person that wanted to talk with her (women generally don't talk to her...).

All in all guys started to get possessive of her. They would get upset if she talked to someone else, bitch about other guys looking at her, etc and so on. They wanted to buy her drinks, but she had her own money and told em no. Which pissed them off.

WHY in the hell can't people just have a decent conversation with someone of the opposite sex??? I have even went out with her before and it was the same thing - men were hitting on her while I was standing there, one guy even went and got some roses and brought them back for her. He didn't want to listen and talk, he saw someone he wanted and didn't give jack shit about what she wanted. fuck this pisses me off.

I have been to bars alone and talked to men/women (only when the wife is out of town with family for 2-4 weeks at a time and I get damned lonely here at home), we just shoot the crap about life and that is it. I don't look for anything else because I have the best already at home - a kind, smart, super in bed woman who loves me more than anyone ever has in my life. So when I do go out, I am looking for just what my wife was - someone to have a conversation with.

Maybe that is why I like DU so much. We can come on here and talk about things like adults without people wanting more all the damned time.

Even when she was working it was more of the same. When we met at Enron, men were hounding her. When she met me and we started together as a couple, men were then mean to her - including her boss who was upset because she would not go out with him (he was married too....).

My wife has always been a beautiful woman - but the downside of that is that no one really wants to know her, they simply want to get her to be theirs so she can be their arm candy. They want someone to show off. And all she has ever wanted was to be able to talk to people one on one as an adult and not something to have.

I am just really pissed off right now because she has faced this shit for years from people, and last week just made it all worse for me. She knows what Parkinson's will do to her, and she wanted to feel alive again and go out and talk and dance. And all she got was more of the same shit from people who wanted her for themselves and not someone to talk to and that be that.

She is not damned arm candy. She is the mother of my daughter, she cans, she quilts, she makes rocking good food, she watches hockey while reading history books, she has spent years of her life helping take care of the sick, she has sat holding the hands of dying aids patients, she has painted and made jewelry, gardened, and so on.

And yeah - she is damned pretty. But she is not a fucking object to be owned, she is a woman, a mother, and a human being who just wants to be able to sit down and talk to people without them getting mad because she won't be theirs.

Just because a woman is at a bar alone does not mean she is there to find someone. Sometimes, people just go out to talk and have a good night. Just because they are nice and talk to you does not mean they want you. My wife has no friends here, her friends from CA were all shallow jerks who never stood by her. So she goes out, for the first time in 9 years, alone and all she got was a bunch of assholes trying to get in her pants. Her head was even shaking in the bar, people noticed, but they still saw her as a score and not much more.

It broke her heart that no one wanted to just talk. It flattered her that she was still seen as pretty by people other than me, but all she really wanted was to feel alive again outside her four walls of her bedroom where she had spent so much time.

Sorry for the rant. I have just seen my wife hurt for the last time. She even tried the online thing a long time ago, but even though people knew she was happily married, they kept hounding her to 'go with them'.

Why can't a woman be friendly to someone without them seeing it as something more?

And what scares me even more: my 6 yr old daughter looks just like her mom.

Just F'ing pissed right now for my wife. A good woman went out to have fun and all she ended up with was a bunch of lame ass jerks. Yeah, I know it was a bar, but she has experienced the same thing while working or shopping.

I am gonna go have a drink.

[LeftyMom]

1. Because, deep down, we're really just funny looking chimps

And locking up the best potential mates is what primates do (with a few notable exceptions.)

[jpgray]

4. Not really.

Just as funny looking chimps don't know they're funny looking chimps, we don't really know the first things about our own behavior, motivations, etc. We have a lot of shorthand to explain it via psychology, and variably applicable anologies like yours.

[lostnotforgotten]

2. The TV Idolizes Beauty - The Proles Are Encouraged To Seek Beauty

Could you expect anything less than the behavior that was exhibited?

[jpgray]

3. It's completely possible and happens lots. Depends on the bar, the people, lots of things.

Some people who claim to be harassed day after day with shallow propositions are in actuality lonely people who are in love with the idea of rejecting dozens of potential courters--something they never experience. It's like the little guy with "short man" syndrome who always tells about the time he beat up the big guy at the bar, etc.

But going alone to a random bar and looking attractive will net some superficial attractions.

[iconoclastic cat]

8. These are men who have run out of ideas to meet women. nt

[porphyrian]

5. You took her to a place where guys are drunk and looking to get laid...

...and you're surprised? Drink for being stupid. That's like taking her to a petting zoo and complaining about animal hair.

[Little Wing]

6. Jeez, find a better bar that isn't a meat locker

they exist

[The Straight Story]

26. It was not always that way to some extent there

She really thought she could just go in, request some music, dance, and shoot the shit with people. Times have changed here (and the bar is under new ownership and new name since last we went).

[annabanana]

7. Try a local theater group instead.

Putting on a show is a really great way to get to know people quickly in a non-threatening venue.

[Cleita]

9. As an ex-bartender, I can honestly tell you that guys make

asses out of themselves around women after a few drinks and then they wonder why they were rejected. Maybe next time you should take her someplace where alcohol isn't served. My favorite hangout when I can get into town is the local Barnes & Noble. I browse the book shelves and then go to the coffee section for a hot chocolate. I look through the books or magazines I have picked up to decide whether to buy them, people watch and sometimes get engaged in conversation with a fellow book reader.

[Subdivisions]

10. I would die to have an intelligent face-to-face conversation with

someone at this point. And sex be damned! I can get that anywhere but a good conversation is rare in my circles.

Your wife is indeed a beautiful woman. It's too bad that she can't go out and have a good time without the flies buzzing around. Perhaps she can get the folks down at the local book club to throw in a DJ, dance floor and bartender?

My best to you both.

[Marie26]

11. That's how guys are.

It's really rare to find one who's willing to actually talk to a woman, or care about what's in her head. I'm sorry your wife had a bad time - but it sounds like she's got a very supportive husband and family. Best wishes to both of you.

[jpgray]

12. Nah--I think both sexes are prone to some superficial attraction and pursuit behavior

Some more than others, and men are usually more aggressive about it.

[Marie26]

17. Ooookay then.

I beg to differ. A man can usually go to a bar w/o being harassed & bothered. Or a store, or a gas station, or a city street. Whereas women are always evaluated & judged by their appearance. But some places are better than others - if the OP's wife is just looking for a place to relax & meet people, she might have more fun at a book club, theater group or hockey game. Or maybe a local historical society?

[jpgray]

18. Everybody is judged and evaluated on appearance

Clothes, hair, etc.--it's hard to get any more information from a total stranger than appearance at first. Men are way more aggressive about their superficial attractions, it's true.

[Vincardog]

82. So you are saying men are usually NOT more aggressive about it?.

[bettyellen]

51. i don't think women get as mean when rejected as some guys do

a small percentage of men turn on a dime and become very scary. i've really only heard of women getting agressive in a scary way after they've already known a fella in some capacity. men are quicker to feel somehow entitled. not much different from your average office in that way.

[Truthiness Inspector]

84. "Entitled"

You nailed the issue there, and I have called those types of men "entitlement jerks" for years. They think once they see you, they own you.

Now, that is not to say all men are like that, but let's face it, we women KNOW those types and no one can tell us it's sunshine!

For the OP, how about having your wife contact your local Dem Party and volunteering there? She will be immediately amongst kindred spirits, and BUSY, and having fun too. And on top of that appreciated!

[The Straight Story]

22. I was never that way, so it strikes me as sad

Hell, I never even asked her out or got that she was hitting on me when we met. She used to come into my office and we talked and chatted about things. I just took it as it was, conversation.

I saw lots of men hitting on her, but it was not my thing. I just liked talking to her because she was interesting. Sure she was a pretty woman, but to me she was someone I could chat with about things like other co-workers.

It wasn't until that fateful day she held my hand that things went how they did. And we still talk about that day 9 years later. She even (before that day) asked me over for dinner and I thought it was just a dinner and looked forward to chatting more about art and computers and such.

Maybe I am just too old school to have seen things for what they were. She was a friend, like any other, and maybe in retrospect that is what she liked about me so much.

[Lorien]

She needs to go someplace other than a bar if she just wants to talk

join a book club, take an interesting class somewhere, volunteer....I'm guessing that she's not over 40. I'm 5'8" and have long red hair too, but I don't get that kind of treatment very often anymore. Mostly I'm just invisible. Your wife has a family, and that sure as hell is a lot to be thankful for. We all face death, illness, and many of us are depressed, but having absolutely no one to lean on at all makes all of those things far harder.

I joined a local artists group last year. Before then I had lived in this town 17 years, and even though I volunteered for many non-profits I had only found one or two friends in all that time (self employed, work at home). My birthday was on Friday and ten people from my artist's group came out to a restaurant to celebrate with me (including a fair number of non-jerk men, most married). Search local newspapers and community directories and perhaps she'll find some intelligent people who share her views and interests.

[The Straight Story]

19. Good ideas

She has just been trapped inside for months, and the only place to go that night was a bar.

Obviously not the best choice :)

[BlackVelvet04]

57. But that's damn sad.....

why shouldn't a woman be able to go into a bar....YES A BAR....have a drink, hang out, talk and then go home alone?

I managed a Karaoke company for a while and would go to the bars to check on how things were going. I'd walk in and it was like fresh meat for the feeding frenzy. I would dance sometimes and fortunately for me the male Karaoke jocks felt very protective of me and word eventually got around. Most of the guys learned to behave themselves around me but it took some training.

[givemebackmycountry]

13. It's Simple...

Excluding present company...but




Men are Pigs.

Not me of course...if there's a ring it ain't my thing.
I'll talk and laugh but that's about it.

[Selatius]

14. Find some place that's more social, less drunky drunky.

I keep thinking an open market square or a café on the corner, but I think too much of European style street markets, like Paris.

[smirkymonkey]

15. I've been asking the same question for years.

I am sorry about how your wife was treated - It can be ugly out there. I just don't go to bars anymore. I have had guys come up to me and ask me out or ask me to dance and I politely said no, that I have a boyfriend (sometimes the truth, sometimes a little white lie) and have had they retort rudely "Well then what the f**K are you doing here."

Your wife is lucky to have you and I wish you both well. There are a lot of jerks in the world and especially in bars, I am sorry you both had to put up with it.

[BlooInBloo]

16. If wishes were ponies, perhaps, but that's just not how guys, as an aggregate, are.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

20. If your wife is that attractive and you knew that her looks and personality...

elicit that sort of response from men, why would you take her to a bar and drop her off where she'd be alone? It wasn't a restaurant, theatre, shopping mall, etc., it was a bar--often full of drunk, horned-up people looking to "score." Perhaps your wife might benefit by joining a Meetup group--there's pretty much something for everyone (many of the interests you mentioned above). She'd just have to find the right fit.

[The Straight Story]

23. Simply put:

It was the only place open right then on this side of town. And she wanted to dance, and we had been there years earlier and she loved the music and the DJ played some songs she really enjoyed.

The Dj was gay, and so was a guy she danced with that time (I don't dance....) so she thought it would be like last time. People to talk to, dance with, etc. And it is 1/4 mile from the house so easy for us.

We live in the ghetto of town, so not a lot of other choices.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

72. You think that stuff doesn't happen at a Meetup?

What you don't know fills volumes. Women, particularly those considered conventionally attractive, can't go ANYWHERE without being the recipient of amorous advances. We circumscribe our lives, carefully monitoring where we go and what we do, in an attempt to minimize it but sometimes we just want to go have a damn beer and a sandwich somewhere without it being viewed as an invitation to be hit on by random dudes. My feeling is why should I have to limit myself because YOU can't conduct yourself properly?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

104. Helen of Troy, is that you?

I'm surprised you have time for a beer and sandwich, considering those thousands of ships you are launching.

If you join an opera Meetup, it's not likely you'll be hit on by drunk horn-dogs at a bar. If you join a toe-sucking Meetup, well, that's another story. That's why I clearly stated it's about finding the right fit. I believe the OP stated that his wife likes art history--she'd probably be "safe" in that group. Alternative lifestyles, on the other hand, would be a whole 'nuther story.

As others have posted, it's often about the vibe a woman gives off. I can cast a look that says "come on over, sugar" or "don't even think about it, buster." I don't buy this bit about having to limit yourself--I don't. A polite but firm "no thanks" is usually all it takes. Only a few times did I get rude, but that's because I actually felt threatened.

[Left Is Write]

109. Apparently, I'm not conventionally attractive, because I simply do not have this problem.

Yeah, I got hit on with some frequency when I was younger, but it's not as if I had to fight men off with a club. And I went almost everywhere alone.

[omega minimo]

21. The same reason that you mentioned she is "super in bed"?

[The Straight Story]

25. Yeah - but they don't know that :)

But damn. She might be ill, and she has another lung infection right now and is laid up, but never in my life have I been with someone so good :) But even when she is ill, we can still just sit and be together and laugh and talk. The sex is icing on the cake, I just love who she is.

I don't blame other people for wanting her, but damn - do they have to treat her like shit if she does not want to be their woman?

[omega minimo]

27. No. The reason you mentioned it and the reason they are jerk-offs is

competition.

[Reterr]

37. Exactly. What an odd remark for a post which is ostensibly about the objectification of women.nt

[AlCzervik]

43. Um yeah we didn't really need to know that either.

Seriously.

[Hidden Stillness]

79. Perceptive as Always, omega

There is something very strange, and fake, about the Original Message. Odd that the only "description" of the person is that she is so ravishing and gorgeous that males flock to her and get aggressive, and that women supposedly never even talk to her. You say she felt worthless, so you "dropped her off" at a bar! You then proceed to "describe" exactly what her experiences were, and the mindset of all who were there, at this place where you were not. You tell us she is great in bed, which has no relation to anything, and would be humiliating to her. There is no description of her as a human being, except that she was the one who apparently approached you to start the relationship. Can we file all this under, "You Wish"?

I get the sense of some real hostility toward her because she is suffering from an illness, and not catering to you; I suggest you get off the internet fiction and face some of your attitudes, rather than just running off to bars and leaving her at home--whoops! Said it!

[omega minimo]

81. Topdogging has become the national pasttime.

On top of the usual posts-about-women-are-still-somehow-all-about-SOME-men.



I hope the OP's spouse has all the support she needs to deal with her illness. Sounds like she needs someone to talk to.

[skids]

24. What cured me of this as a teen...

Was watching the movie "Candy" (1968) while in a very, well let's say, suggestible, state in college.

From then on I was always conscious of what a jerk one could be if they let their id and their hormones run amok hand-in-hand.

[DireStrike]

61. As high minded as this all sounds

When one actually wants to find a potential female partner, being a jerk works wonders. Only once has being nice, and not consciously pursuing someone worked out for me. I don't really want to wait another 20 years or more for another opportunity like that.

I really don't see what the problem is here. And I'm not really sure why the OP wasn't interested in his wife from the get-go. I consider pretty much every attractive female in my life as a potential girlfriend. Maybe because I'm so young?

[cali]

28. This belongs in the lounge

It isn't about how pretty women get treated; it's about an experience your wife had in a bar alone, surrounded by men who'd been drinking. There are plenty of places where where she wouldn't have been treated that way.

[The Straight Story]

31. It's a commentary to me on society and how we treat others

My wife has always been treated as nothing more than what I mentioned, and not just at bars if you read the whole OP.

We even went to HR about the sexual harassment she got at work and they shrugged it off. No wonder Enron went down the tubes, they plain sucked.

When will people just treat others as equals and stop trying to possess someone? She has been jacked over so many times it is not funny, just for being herself and because so many others wanted her to be their own something.

She has been wronged many times with employers because she would not give in to her bosses.

This latest thing just hit home because it was supposed to be a night out to dance and have fun and turned into another 'you're pretty and so I want you, if you won't give me yourself I am not talking to you' thing.

Why can't she just be herself and have people, from bars to work, treat her as a person and not an object?

[cali]

33. Sorry, I disagree.

It's not all about how she looks. It's about other things as well. I know some drop dead beautiful women, I'm thinking of one in particular, who's a dancer, and she never gets treated like your wife. Part of it is what vibes you send out.

[spacelady]

47. Definitely the vibes.

[Missy Vixen]

40. Try being perceived as "unattractive"

>Why can't she just be herself and have people, from bars to work, treat her as a person and not an object?<

I'm plain and overweight. I'm also married, and wear my ring. I don't ask for attention in public, but I am friendly, and will occasionally say something friendly to someone else to simply be cordial and polite. Most of the time, things go well, but I am consistently amazed at the men who act as if I have insulted them by daring to even say "hello".

I might also mention that I don't go to a bar unless my husband is with me. Ever.

Julie

[Cabcere]

78. I know what you mean, JulieRB

I'm kind of the same way - not married, but I am overweight and just not conventionally attractive, and I find that most of the time men hardly pay attention to me. :shrug: I consider myself a friendly and somewhat interesting person, but often members of the opposite sex will hardly acknowledge me with a smile or a "hello." (Obviously, there are exceptions, and these exceptions are usually the ones that really matter, I've found. ;)) It is a bit discouraging sometimes, though...not that I'd like to be treated as a piece of meat or a sex object, and I'm sorry that the OP's wife had that experience. But it's kind of hard to explain, and it's one in the morning here and I have a paper due tomorrow that I should really be finishing up now. :hi: Peace!

[Bronyraurus]

80. What the hell were you thinking

dropping your ill wife off at a bar in a ghetto neighborhood alone?

Aside from that, if a single woman walks into a bar, any bar, she will be hounded by males until she leaves. I think it has something to do with evolution or human nature or something.

What an idiotic post.

[Reterr]

36. I was thinking the same thing cali

I am sorry the OP's wife is ill and sincerely wish her the best, but seriously DU is not a personal blog and it shouldn't be in my opinion.


Besides I don't want to be mean, but the OP really sounds (unintentionally perhaps) to me like an indirect boast about how attractive the OP's wife is. If it was actually about the objectification of women in our society, the point could be made without references to how the OP's wife is "super in bed" , and all the details about how many people have "wanted" her etc. Too much information...:shrug:. I don't want to doubt the OP's intentions but if he wants to post on such issues, maybe he should tailor them in more general terms. I mean is this really a place to vent off steam??

[MrSlayer]

29. Guys go to bars to get laid, not to have deep meaningful conversations.

Did you really expect otherwise? A good looking woman is going to get hit on, that's the way it is. Have you been away from the social scene so long you forgot this? Quite frankly I'm shocked that you are shocked and outraged.

[Jonathan50]

30. My wife is 48 years old and still good looking, long brunette hair, pretty face...

Getting a bit big now but not obese by any means..

She was eating a salad in a bar/restaurant after a business meeting and in the time it took her to eat the salad she was hit on by drunks twice.. She just tells them "no thanks" when they offer to buy a drink. I don't know quite how she does it but she's good at getting men to buzz off without being insulting.

That's just the way a lot of guys are, you don't generally find real sensitive guys in a bar to start with and after they've had a few drinks, well you've heard the phrase "Don't listen to him, it's the alcohol talking".

Unless pretty women have a very strong personality they are going to get treated like that.

I had a really beautiful woman tell me once that the only men who ever dared to approach her were suave, Porsche driving studs who got all their culture from People magazine. Pretty women scare off the nice guys who assume they are unapproachable and taken anyway.


"A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity." -Robert A. Heinlein

[DemBones DemBones]

39. When my daughter was 15, we were eating

dinner in a popular local deli when two guys who were in their late twenties/early thirties came over and asked if they could buy us a beer. We said "No, thanks," and they said, "Are you sure?" and we assured them that we were sure, thanks, and they left.

I wish I'd had the presence of mind to say "Well, you could buy me one but my daughter's too young to drink" just to see their faces!

:rofl:

Like your wife, neither my daughter nor I have ever had any trouble telling guys to buzz off without insulting them.

IMO, most guys who hit on women they don't know don't expect to have any success, are just testing their luck. If they lucked out they might be like the proverbial dog who chases cars, finally catches one, and doesn't know what to do with it.

[BlooInBloo]

52. (a) You can't get a hit unless you swing...

... (b) Our failure as students of women is equally well-described as women's failure as teachers of men.

[Jonathan50]

53. Don't know what do with it if they catch it..

Yeah, I suspect that you're right..

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. I had a graduate school friend who looked like a young Faye Dunaway, and

she couldn't get attention from graduate school men to save her life.

Of course, very few women could get attention from graduate school men. However, when I went out into academic jobs, all the men were married, which made me think that they must have settled down with the first woman they met after finishing school.

[Jonathan50]

54. I'm not sure what you are trying to say by "graduate school men"

Are you implying they're arrogant, shy, insecure?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

64. Shy and insecure, mostly

Also, I swear, some of them acted as if they were still in grade school and afraid that the other guys would tease them about having a girlfriend.

[Jonathan50]

90. The teasing is from jealousy..

Just about any halfway normal man wants female companionship and those that don't have such resent those that do.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. I think she'd have felt worse if

the men hadn't paid any attention to her, since men have paid attention to her all her life.

You said she felt like she was no longer pretty, not worth anything, etc., so at least she found out that she is still pretty, that men are still attracted to her. She should feel good about that.

I know it's a pain to have men hit on you when you have made it clear that you are not interested in being picked up but bars are not good places to go alone if you're an attractive woman and don't want to be hit on. Men just don't believe that a woman goes to a bar alone just for conversation.

As others have said, she needs to find a group of people with shared interests to join, like a quilt guild, garden club, book group. Besides that, surely you can find some activities to do together that also involve your six year-old and get your wife out of the house.

Since she's sick a lot, she could explore internet groups related to her interests that people in bars are less likely to share.

In online groups, no one has to know what you look like or even your sex.

[JerseygirlCT]

34. She sounds like a real treasure. And fortunately for her, she

*is* treasured. That's lovely to see.

I have no idea why people can be such asses. But it's true, and it happens, unfortunately.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. I'm a little confused--why did you just drop her off rather than accompany her?

[The Straight Story]

41. No one to watch our 6 yr old (nt)

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

38. Best NOT to be 'attractive' and go to a bar because,...

,...few ever go to a bar to be 'higher' beings. They go to escape the pressures of life and are usually just plain stupid and/or gross and certainly sacrifice giving a damn about how they behave towards others.

Jus' sayin' :shrug:

[Skittles]

42. I always had an instant cure for it

I would scratch my crotch and say DAMN! The doc said the pills would cure this but they ain't working!

[AlCzervik]

45. "Does this look infected?"

:toast: :rofl:

[Missy Vixen]

46. LOL, Skittles!

>The doc said the pills would cure this but they ain't working!<

Plus, those guys knew that if they got out of line, you'd KICK THEIR ASSES!

LOL!

:hi:
Julie

[Skittles]

50. I never f***ing "put up" with ANYTHING from men

no INDEED :hi:

[Missy Vixen]

70. You go, girl

The vast majority of my interactions with members of the opposite sex have been positive. There's always going to be one or two that mess it up for everyone.

:hi:
Julie

[Roland99]

48. You dropped her off at a BAR and expected something different from what happened???

:wtf:

[Swede]

49. Sorry dude,it's human nature.

There is a reason male's like high cheek bones,breasts and nice rear ends. Long before tv or the google came along. Women like a provider,men like a productive female.

[Jonathan50]

56. Women like a provider,men like a productive female.

I got roundly chastised here a few days ago for saying basically the same thing in more words..

It was like I had committed heresy or something. :)

[liontamer]

100. because your statement turns us all into johns and whores

that's probably why you pissed people off :eyes:

[BoneDaddy]

55. Jesus

this sounds more like an indictment of men then it does a bad experience. Perhaps you don't take her to a bar or a classier place. I am sorry you had a bad time, but maybe some foresight would be more appropriate as a first night out after a long convalescence. I hear what you are saying but this reeks of a bit of your own projection

[Kolesar]

58. If this is the biggest problem you have in your life, I envy you ... eom

[rasputin1952]

59. I have both male and female friends that i can talk to about just

anything and have a great time. I love intelligent conversations, but I also have to admit I need occasionally suppress my libido. One of the most beautiful women I've ever known was also one of the most intelligent. I lost her because I was a jerk, not a "sexual" jerk, but rather, just because I went away for a while in the Army, and failed to ge back in touch when i got out. I was a bit of a wreck and decided that I wasn't exactly the same guy I was before I went in.

She in turn, got her Masters in Art, and taught in the the NYC School system...I felt like I had done little to advance myself while in the Army, (I made rank quickly, but I should have taken advantage of the GI Bill).

In any case, beauty to me in inside, it is what is in the mind that counts, and I enjoy discussions about almost anything. FWIW, I wouldn't "hit" on your wife, or any other woman; but I'd love to sit down w/coffee and discus life in general....you'd hopefully be there as well...:)

[orleans]

60. because "men and women can never be friends"

[krispos42]

62. Because usually only confident guys hit on hot ladies

The guys with the swagger, who are in good shape and maybe have some polished barside manners, perhaps a good story or three to tell.

They are probably used to hitting on their female opposite numbers, the good looking, self-confident women also looking for something casual.

The decent guys in the room probably thought they were out of the league of either your wife or the competetion.

[Truthiness Inspector]

86. You are so wrong!

Most of the guys who hit on me and my friends are so bad they almost seem like another species--and this extends around the world. We get the hot ones too, but you'd be amazed. I won't elaborate so as not to offend, but EVERY woman reading my response knows exactly what I'm talking about.

If only every man hitting on us was a dream. LOL.

[krispos42]

88. He he he! So their confidence was self-delusional

"Delusions of adequacy" :rofl:

Nonetheless, it was still confidence, something that I feel I lack, even though I can hold up a conversation and don't look half-bad. I also make really really cute kids! :-)

[Quixote1818]

63. I wish I could meet some of the people on DU

Your daughter sounds like a very deep, dynamic, beautiful person and I am sure she will find someone who appreciates her depth and big heart eventually.

Since graduating from collage 15 years ago dating has been difficult for me. Very few people are interesting to talk to and have an intellectual curiosity. I rarely feel understood when dating because my values are rooted in the caring about the important things in this world and most people are more interested in simple, unimportant things. Making a difference has always been very important to me but most people could care less about changing the world. It's discouraging.

I feel understood here because there are so many like minded people who care and want to make a difference. There are a lot of wonderful people on DU! I certainly agree with you.

[Jonathan50]

91. You might want to try going to a Unitarian Universalist congregation..

They tend to be fairly intelligent and involved people, at least more so than average.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

65. i understand what you're saying but honestly, didn't you know this would happen

when she went to this bar? You already knew what kind of affect she had on men because of past history, so what would have made this time different then the rest. It is a bar, and bars are notorious pick-up places.

Perhaps, she should look into adult ed programs in order to get out of the house and maybe meet other people with the same interests. Or if there is a movie club or book club, or perhaps she can even teach a course for adult ed.

On Edit...after thought...you really have to find a babysitter.

[BlooInBloo]

67. Doesn't matter. It's his SO - it's other guys' faults no matter what.

[nam78_two]

66. How is this not a lounge thread?

:shrug:
I keep seeing it here and its even on the GP now :wow:...

It isn't even really about gender issues -more about how pretty women get hit on by jerks. Sorry but I don't get how this is even remotely political, about important issues for liberals etc. :shrug:
I thought the lounge is where personal posts go -serious or silly.

[Reterr]

71. I agree-I emailed the mods-I hope they move it.NT

[mudesi]

68. Why do men forget they're men?

You're a man, right? I take it from your description of your wife that she is quite attractive. I don't know you personally, I don't know your history, I don't know your age, your circumstances, or your background. But I find it hard to believe that at some point in your life, you didn't act in the exact same way as the men you deride. It's human nature for a heterosexual male to "objectify" an attractive female in the way you describe.

[dysfunctional press]

69. why can't drunk guys in a bar hit on good-looking single women without being called jerks?

after all- if the woman didn't want the attention, she wouldn't have gotten herself all gussied up and went out to a bar alone (would be the mindset of most of the men in that bar- after all, THAT'S WHAT BARS ARE FOR).

you most people don't go to bars with dj's & dance floors for the intelligent conversation- you they go there to go home with someone, and they figure that's why everyone else is there- and it usually is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

75. What do you assume women get gussied up for you?

Maybe a woman has a particular guy - not you - in mind when she selects her attire. Why can't some guys, drunk or otherwise, realize that everything is not about them all the time and they are not automatically entitled to the attention of every woman they notice.

[badgerpup]

73. That's why I liked going to gay bars so much...

I'm not what's considered attractive or arm candy, and in straight bars nobody ever spoke to me.
EVER.

Went as 'backup' and designated driver with one of my gay friends to check out a bar, and you want to talk culture shock?
I got chatted up by several charming, intelligent guys...even asked to dance!
I took another of my gay friends there, and same thing happened. We became 'regulars'...
and I wasn't the only straight female in the joint, either. Most of them received the same treatment, unless they were jerks (females can be jerks too).

I'm pretty sure it was because the sexual question was a non-issue from the gitgo, and we all knew it was non-issue, so we could just relax and be 'people'.


Either that, or you get a way less evolved clientele at straight bars than at the ones who cater to a gay crowd...:shrug:


BTW, SS...AutumnMist is indeed a very beautiful woman!

[omega minimo]

74. Why can't men just jerk off instead of starting WWIII?

:nuke:

[Little Wing]

103. Couldn't resist, could you

:eyes:

[Bucky]

76. Next time she just wants conversation and dancing, try a gay bar

Seriously, I have several female friends who said it's a much more positive experience (but of course don't go to a leather bar)

[libnnc]

83. The music is usually better too...

:thumbsup:

[MonkeyFunk]

77. Holy crap!

Guys hitting on attractive, unaccompanied women in bars? What is this world coming to?

[DemBones DemBones]

85. Yeah, that never used to happen!

:rofl:

[tkmorris]

87. This is a vanity thread

Even if the OP isn't aware that's what he posted (I am TRYING to keep an open mind), that's what it is.

[BlooInBloo]

89. Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like mine!

:rofl:

[nam78_two]

92. No kidding-I know I can just hide thread or ignore it

But I alerted on it to be moved to the lounge and wanted to see if it was moved.

I don't know but there is something just VERY icky about this thread-it fascinates me like a train-wreck and I cannot ignore it the way I ignore most of the "clutter". And everytime I refresh DU-lo and behold-its there at the top with a growing no. of recommendations.

As someone once said, some people can post about how they flushed their toilet on DU and ratchet up recommendations and replies in an instant :crazy:

Its just so creepy and kinda sexist to boot...what with the mentioning of how "super in bed" the OP's wife is and how she was the one who "hit on him"(I would NOT want my partner, who posts here, to be posting such personal things and that would be especially true if he were posting under his own name).

[B Calm]

95. It amazes me this thread hasn't been moved to the lounge! What

is it I'm not seeing here?

[Judi Lynn]

96. Damned good observation. It's not appropriate for this forum, by any stretch of the imagination. n/t

[tomreedtoon]

93. Didn't you hear? The sexes are at war.

They have always been, and always will be at war. Having a "nice conversation" with a woman is impossible, because the woman will always find something to attack the man with. And men wish to find some excuse to dismiss the woman - or find a cause to physically attack her.

Exactly how sheltered have you been? Have you had your head in Harlequin romances or something? Simply surviving contact with the opposite sex without losing your soul is the best you can hope for. Wake up and smell the burning bodies, fellow.

[HEyHEY]

94. Say, hic, yer kina cute

[Crabby Appleton]

97. must be an anomaly, a bar is usually a good place to meet

non-jerks

[buddhamama]

98. the better question to ask, imo, is:

why can't folks speak to one another without being jerks?

[slj0101]

99. I understand your plight.

But, taken for what they are, some bars aren't just watering holes, they're meat markets, and any knucklehead with a few drinks in him and nothing to lose thinks he's Casanova.

[Deep13]

101. The command of Darwinism: HAVE SEX NOW! NOW! NOW DAMMIT!

Even when that's not what we want, deep down, it's what we want.

[BarenakedLady]

102. She sounds like a wonderful woman.

And you are one lucky dude. She is also lucky to have someone feel the way you do about her.

I'm sorry she didn't find what she was looking for on her night out.

:hug:

[Courtesy Flush]

105. You set her up for it

Or maybe she set herself up.

You send a beautiful woman, alone, to a place where women are traditionally objectified, and complain when they objectify here.

My wife is 46 years old, and probably safer in a bar than she was years ago, but I wouldn't drop her off alone, and say "Have fun" and expect her to find people eager for stimulating conversation.

I mean, you did know it was a bar, right?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

107. Unless the bar is filled with 25-year olds willing to play the role of "Benjamin."

Coocoocachoo.

Great pin!

[mzteris]

106. I'd say your wife

is damned lucky to have a husband like you.

:grouphug: for the whole family and everything you've gone/are going through.

Here's to the fact that with you as a Dad, your daughter will grow up self-confident and able to see right through the @ssholes out there. Yeah, I know, too bad they even exist, eh? But at least she'll have a better chance of getting through life than many other women who never learn that they are "more" than just what they look like.

[realisticphish]

108. It's the venue

I'm a guy who is by no means a "hottie." If I went into a bar and tried to hit on a woman, I'd get laughed away. Why? Because in bars, attractiveness is the reason you go there alone. Sure, your wife and you may not think that, but that's what 99% of people are thinking. When I go to a bar, it's with a group of friends, and we all drink and talk and have a good time. I don't go there by myself expecting a long discussion on quantum mechanics or philosophy with a random stranger. If your wife wants to talk, GO SOMEWHERE WHERE PEOPLE TALK. If she wants to dance and look pretty, then by all means do so. But she better be ready to tell a lot of guys to fuck off. That's reality.

[Guava Jelly]

110. I could talk to her as a person

From the little i have conversed with her on the boards.
She is a tough cookie and brave as hell the way she handles her illness at least from what I can tell.
And I think her beauty is far deeper than just what is on the outside.
Men or should i say people are way to superficial these days.
Sorry you and she have to deal with all that.
Not like you guys don't have enough on your plate.