Seriously. Why would a woman enter a wet t-shirt contest?

[Robb]

:eyes:

There's one that apparently has been going on for some months now a few towns over. No one told me, naturally, but the paper there picked up the story.

I'd like a woman to explain to me, in rational terms, why it's sensible to get pitchers of water poured on you and dance around while a bunch of pervy guys take pictures, all in the hope that at the end of the night you're the one that gets $50? Am I missing some redeeming feature of the whole thing?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. how about if you took part in one in a lesbian bar?

w.no pervy guys?

[Robb]

2. Well, that's sort of a benign co-opt I think

Taking it into a different situation like a lesbian bar kind of changes the context. :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. yeah well thats the only wet tshirt i may or may not have been involved in

[AngryAmish]

6. What if said bar is filled with pervy gals?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. well i am sure the bar was.

however i think sex positiveness works differently in the gay community and the straight community. partly because the assumption is that because of the lack of sexism the power differences etc aren't the same.

on edit: in gay bars in nyc, i frequently see gay men take their shirts off. no one ever accuses them of being ungentlemanly or whorish (atleast not for taking their shirts off).

[MissMillie]

15. personally speaking

I wouldn't be any more ok being objectified by women than I would be being objectified by men.

[Deep13]

4. Some people like being the center of attention.

That's an observation, not a value judgment. Besides, it's fun to be a little uncivilized once in awhile.

[Bunny]

5. Attention seeking and acting out, I would guess.

Why do young women agree to expose their breasts on Girls Gone Wild? I don't know.

[AllegroRondo]

7. fifteen minutes of fame

and lots of alcohol.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[matcom]

9. because she cares about me

:D

[PVnRT]

11. pix plz thx

n/t

[Miss_Strawberry]

12. Because some women

enjoy being degraded.....there are countless examples....

[Deep13]

13. It's only degrading if sexuality is bad, which it ain't.

[kwassa]

14. Oh please ...... it can be extremely degrading ....

Sexuality can be wonderful act of love, and it can also be a violent crime, and everything between those two extremes. It certainly can be degrading.

[Deep13]

16. Not in this context.

We are not talking about rape or child sexual abuse. We are talking about adult women barely showing off their ta-tas. So what?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. the world will implode.

any minute.

[Deep13]

18. Thanks for the warning.

I'll sell my stocks. :evilgrin:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. are you going to sell your stocks to tip wet t shirt contest winners?

cos then you will also go to hell.

[Deep13]

22. If I understand the rules right, all the interesting people are in hell anyway.

Pssst, hey, ssshhhh! Listen (look around furtively). There's something you ought to know. (Really low whisper.) There ain't no hell. No, no shit. No heaven, neither. You didn't hear that from me.

Did I say "stocks?" That's a typo. I meant "stalks." There's a lot of corn around here. I don't suppose the contestants would appreciate having ears of corn lobbed at them. Nah, didn't think so.

[kwassa]

21. Wet T-shirt contests could be degrading or not degrading.

Unless you are there, you have no idea how the contest was run.

Some of the behavior from the observers can make it extremely degrading towards the participants. It is all the context.

[Deep13]

25. So how the observers are acting determines whether or not...

...what the wet T-shirt contestant is doing is degrading? I though we gave up the idea that wicked female sexuality controls what men do or think.

[kwassa]

31. Imagine a large group of drunk jeering frat boys pushing and shoving

shouting comments about the relative attractiveness of the breasts of the different women.

I think a participant might find that degrading.

[Deep13]

46. Such a participant would probably be well-advised not to participate.

Live and let live, I guess. I have never been to such an event. I have been to a few strip-joints and have never observed that kind of behavior. Of course such places are well guarded by "bouncers" who would not tolerate abuse by customers.

[Shell Beau]

20. If a woman chooses to do this then it isn't degrading to her.

Some people have no problem with nudity and have no problem baring all. It is a natural state. I, for one, am not comfortable doing it so I probably would feel degraded. But we are all different.

[Miss_Strawberry]

23. I have no problem being nude

I love my body, and I love showing it off....but I show it off to my honey. Just because I could be comfortable completely naked in a room full of strangers doesn't mean I should do it. I also think there is a BIG difference between being naked in your "natural state" and being hosed off by a guy with a microphone so that a lot of gawkers can objectify you. I know somebody is going to say you can't be objectified if you don't want to or some people don't mind and objectify themselves but you can't handle what goes on in other people's brains...sex is not a commodity

[Shell Beau]

28. I feel the way you do, but I have friends who feel completely different.

It is hard for me to understand sometimes. But they did show their ta-ta's in New Orleans and highly enjoyed doing so. And this was with guys gawking and throwing beads. Different strokes and all that.

[Miss_Strawberry]

37. Well I would never think badly of anyone

I just feel there are more tasteful ways of being open with your sexuality. If my best gal wanted to be in a wet-t-shirt contest far be it from me to tell her what to do. I might encourage her to go get professional nudes done or something, so it could be more about her.

[Oeditpus Rex]

41. Almost perfect

Except that in a wet T-shirt contest, the commodity isn't sex, but the implication of sex, differing only in degree from a lap dance or strip show.

There's a vast difference between someone who shows off for a lover and someone who shows off for a room full of hootin', hollerin', likkered-up testosterone cases. I'm not prepared to explain what that difference is. I only know one arouses me immensely and the other puts me off.

[Deep13]

43. "sex is not a commodity"

How do you figure that, sports fan? Food is a commodity. So is water. So is everything else on which life depends. How is the basis of that life is any different. People are not commodities. Or maybe they are. How is selling labor at a job site any different conceptually than selling sexual favors at, um, a job site. In both cases, the individual is being objectified for his or her body. The construction foreman does not hire laborers in order to appreciate them as complete human beings. He just wants the job done. Of course, that is not the case we are talking about here. This is a case where women volunteer to be sexual objects for a short time presumeably because they want to do so. I have to assume that, anyway. Here in the Mississippi of the North (Ohio), we don't exactly have wet T-shirt contests on every corner.

I think while women need to be less repressed about overt sexuality; men need to learn that women being sexual does not make aggressive and abusing behavior suddenly acceptable. I never use the terms "slut" or "whore" except in reference to the media. Those terms represent a patriarchal tribal-system oppression of women.

[Miss_Strawberry]

55. You preemptively assume

that selling labor at a job site is ok....How can we ever begin to put a fair value on labor? Don't even open that can of worms...

[kwassa]

26. She may have no control over the situation or context, though.

She might not expect it to be degrading, but then have it turn out that way in action.

[Deep13]

27. True. She's not responsible for the offenses of others if they happen.

[Miss_Strawberry]

29. Well that's completely understandable

and not something that should ever be held against anyone

[Shell Beau]

30. That is very true. But if you are willing to put yourself in that situation, you

should be well aware of any and all consequences you may suffer.

[kwassa]

33. Some young women are naive, however ...

and don't realize the consequences of something that seemed like a good idea at first.

[Shell Beau]

35. You are right! I bet a lot of those gals on the Gone Wild videos feel that way.

I don't know. You have great points that I tend to agree with, but then again, I also feel like go for it if it floats your boat.

[Miss_Strawberry]

48. this reminds me of...

A certain band I know made a music video. They got two youngish girls to come over and did a mock rape/murder type storyline. The girls were both semi-experienced in the porn industry. They signed waivers and everything and at the end one girl was so upset she was in tears....they used that footage too. They knew what they were getting into but one felt taken advantage of. Is it wrong? They signed waivers and agreed. I think that the whole project should have been scrapped. I think it is terrible. Even though these were porn girls, totally at ease with their bodies and well aware of the consequences.

[kwassa]

34. dupe delete.

[MissMillie]

I agree with this statement

and I would never dream of banning the contests or telling women what they can and cannot do w/ their bodies.

But I will add that there are some women who feel that these contests are degrading the women in general, and to some extent I think that is a valid argument.

I'll also say that if there were some equivalent for men (the wet speedo contest?) I would think that would be equally degrading and objectifying.

I'm not a prude, I don't think sex is dirty.

But I'm also not a believer that just because someone CAN make money off of something, they should. And what we can and can't do w/ our bodies is very often regulated. It is illegal, for example, for me to sell a kidney.

[Shell Beau]

36. I am with you on that. What do you think of these beauty pageants with

women parading around in these tiny bikinis?

[MissMillie]

45. I'm not a fan

I'm glad there are scholarships out there for women, but why do we award scholarships based on how women look?

[Miss_Strawberry]

57. Beauty pageants bother me

even without the tiny bikinis. The whole idea of beauty pageants is ridiculous. Tini bikinis don't bother me. They still leave enough to the imagination. I think it is one of the ways in which you can be an exhibitionist without baring all.

[Radical Activist]

65. Personally, I think beauty pageants are far more degrading.

It amazes me that young women present themselves to be judged and evaluated for points in front of some people who claim to be qualified to make those judgments. You can dress it up with points for answering questions but its still a "beauty" pageant. I find it very appropriate that they're often done at county fairs where cattle and other livestock are judged and given ribbons in a similar manner. Its the ultimate objectification of women into a commodity.

[Deep13]

50. "if there were some equivalent for men...that would be equally degrading"

I don't know about that. The history and the cultural context makes that different. There is no history of men being degraded and oppressed by society because of their sexuality. While for women chastity was a virtue and promiscuity made them sluts or worse, there never has been an equivillent stigma on male sexuality. On the contrary, promiscuity for men is an indication of strength and a rite of passage. If such a spectacle is degrading to men, it is so in the same way that master would find it degrading to serve a slave.

[MissMillie]

54. I should have qualified that: I meant in my eyes

I don't like to think of people as objects.

Usually when I find someone attractive, it's not just about their looks.

[Miss_Strawberry]

58. I guess some people don't understand

that we are simply sharing opinions...they want everyone to attach disclaimers...

If we can't tell each other how we feel and open topics for discourse than why the hell do we have DU anyway...geez...I just got called an elitist for my opinion...

[MissMillie]

59. it's fine... I don't mind making a clarifying statement

No matter how hard I try to be articulate, I'm sure I fall short on that goal from time to time.

[Miss_Strawberry]

61. or maybe some others

are just falling short in other areas...

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. It's only degrading if she chooses to be degraded by it.

Nothing is degrading in and of itself - it is only degrading if we choose to believe it is so.


]

[Scout]

24. Because some women think that if men act like horny teenagers,

and hoot and holler and make comments, that the woman is then somehow "better" than she was before, or better than other women.

I don't think there IS a sensible, rational explanation for this kind of behavior.

And no, I don't have any problems with sex or my sexuality. I just think this kind of behavior is generally a result of low self esteem or exhibitionism.

[Miss_Strawberry]

32. I'm all for

open sexuality and even exhibitionism in a tasteful, respectful way. Wet t-shirts just don't do it for me.

[Bridget Burke]

38. "exhibitionism in a tasteful, respectful way"?

Examples, please!

[Miss_Strawberry]

44. I don't have all the answers....

Professional nudes perhaps? Going to nudist camps where others feel the way you do? You can get the thrill? Flashing your SO when nobody's paying attention?

[Oeditpus Rex]

49. Art (n/t)

[Deep13]

51. That strikes me as a bit elitist. Sorry to put it that way.

Not everyone is subtle.

[Miss_Strawberry]

53. I'm 100% sophisto elitist snobbery...24/7 all the time...no offense taken

[Deep13]

60. I often am an elitist, but have a few vulgar exceptions.

:evilgrin:

[devilgrrl]

39. Because they're narcissists????

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. ...

Because it's fifty bucks and it's only tits?

:shrug:

You should see what women in New Orleans do for beads. Or maybe you shouldn't.

[Shell Beau]

52. I have seen it! Several times in fact!

[Oeditpus Rex]

66. 'It's only tits'

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Yup.

I wonder when we'll get to the thread about the horrible practice of "mooning."

[Oeditpus Rex]

69. I wonder when we'll get to the one

headed "Don't post your wet T-shirt pics. It's only tits."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. OK, ok.

Tits, with a wet t-shirt around them.

[redqueen]

71. Breasts are more holier than buttockses.

:crazy:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

72. Redqueen, you're such a breasthole.

:hide:

[redqueen]

73. Oh yeah? Well you're a pseudomamma.

:shrug:

[ContraBass Black]

42. Some people like to show off.

[NewWaveChick1981]

47. Not everyone likes wet t-shirt contests. However, it's nobody's else's business but the ones

who participate in them. If the participants are over 18, they can do what they like. There are as many reasons for doing that as there are women who do it.

[mitchum]

62. Because she can't do anything else to draw attention to herself?

[Arkansas Granny]

63. There's nothing serious about it. It's all done in fun. Look at it

this way, there's no actual nudity involved (usually). I've seen similar displays of boobies from women who wear thin blouses in the frozen food aisle. Not to mention the fact that some women have paid good money for those things and this is one way to show them off. I would say that anyone who finds wet t-shirt contest to be degrading shouldn't participate in one.

[leftofthedial]

64. to win

to fulfill an exhibitionist streak

to make their boyfriend happy/jealous/whatever

low self esteem/high self esteem

whatever their reasons, they are *their* reasons

[Taverner]

68. Every woman has her own reasons

Some women do like to be ogled. Others do not. Same as us guys.