So is Hillary really gonna be the president?

[mrdemocrat78]

I mean I would take her over any republican... but she scares me.
I like Obama, but rather than overcoming the "stigma?" of being the first real black candidate, I think it's gonna be harder for him to overcome hillary's money. I like edwards too, but just don't see it. Especially after his bloggers quit. Doesn't send a very good message.

[terrya]

1. If it's her against John McCain....

then I think there's an excellent chance of President Clinton II.

[mrdemocrat78]

3. it's kinda funny

bush 4 years
clinton 8 years
bush 8 years
clinton 4/8 years

potentially 36 years of 2 familys controlling the US?

[terrya]

8. I think she stands an excellent chance of getting the nomination

And I think the American people have had enough of the Republicans in the White House. Especially some George W. Bush ass kissing rightwinger like John McCain.

[bigwillq]

12. That's the No. 1 reason why I won't vote for her

I don't want the US to become land of the dynasties.

[MonkeyFunk]

Being the wife of a president

and then earning the election isn't a dynasty.

Of ALL the arguments against Clinton, that one is just the out-and-out dumbest.

[bigwillq]

20. I don't want another Bush or another Clinton

That is all....and to me it is a dynasty...regardless of the definition.

I actually like Hill a lot...a lot more than many folks here...I just don't want another Bush or Clinton.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. so if the Bushes had never won

you'd be OK with it?

That's irrational - one has nothing to do with the other.

[bigwillq]

34. But the Bushes did win

and so did Bill Clinton

It one does have something to do with the other

Next question

[MonkeyFunk]

38. again

if the Bushes had never won, say it was Reagan, Bradley, Clinton, McCain...

would you still oppose Hillary Clinton running?

[Chan790]

40. I would

but that's because I don't think she's up to the job.

Edit: I don't oppose her running. I won't vote for her though.

[MonkeyFunk]

43. ah

edit:

wrong poster.

I can respect not liking a candidate as an excuse a lot more than some made-up "dynasty" reason.

[bigwillq]

47. I do like her

I think she is a decent senator...but the dynasty thing is not a silly excuse, imo....it's a fact that if Hil wins the White House we will have

Bush
Clinton
Bush
Clinton

What are we China? Japan? Where the same family (families) are in power year after year? :shrug:

I like Hil, I do but I won't vote for her in the primary.

There are other reason but the dynasty one is a big one for me.

[terrya]

48. It's essential to remove the Republicans in 2008.

We need to get our troops our of Iraq, the budget deficit is spiralling out of control, there's this thing called global warming we have to address, we need to repair our relations with the rest of the world, John Paul Stevens is 85 years old...

I could go on and on. I'm reading some of the stuff in this thread and I think it's important to look at the big picture.

[Chan790]

50. I meant in the primary.

I probably wouldn't vote for her in the GE either unless it was close, except that taking the WH comes first.

If I have to swallow my pride and vote for Hillary in 2008, we'd better have a plan for 2012, because I think it'll take the average American about that long to realize she's not suited to the job. It's a bad field all around thus far on both sides of the aisle. Come, Dark Horse!!!

[bigwillq]

41. I don't oppose her running

I am just not going to vote for her in the primary.

[MonkeyFunk]

44. ok

you want to play little word games.

Never mind.

[mrdemocrat78]

45. damn straight I would. Buck Fush!!!!!

[woofless]

28. zackly

I don't think working/middle class Americans can survive 28 years of Bushista/DLC administrations.

Woof

[MonkeyFunk]

2. There's a very good chance...

she will.

[Chan790]

4. I doubt it...

if a strong Democratic dark horse doesn't come out of the early primaries...we may be counting on the GOP to allow its bible-thumping (incorrectly, I should add) contingent to choose a nutjob for our win in 2008.

A lot of people I know hate Hillary...but they'd all vote for her over George Allen, Sam Brownback, or Rick (Man on Dog) Santorum.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. No, don't worry.

This same time last time around Joe Lieberman was way ahead in the polls for the Democratic primary.

I'll bet Hillary's campaign's going to crash and burn even worse than his.

[mrdemocrat78]

11. yeah, but he didn't have Hillary's Money either?

I mean, she's got Bush money doesn't she?

[terrya]

24. That is going to put her over the top.

She'll have an awesome fund raising machine. And I know we all deplore the huge amounts of money it takes to elect a President, until the system is changed, raising money is a huge factor.

BTW: I think it will be Clinton/Obama.

[mrdemocrat78]

6. So does she admit her vote was a mistake?

I know she has said she takes responsibility for her vote. She has said everything like that except "I was wrong to vote for the war" Does that hurt her? Or is she being smart to not say it that way; afraid of the flip flop tag?

[MonkeyFunk]

10. she has said

"If I knew then what I know now, I would not have voted for it." and "If I were president in 2003, I would not have started this war."

But a lot of people would rather blame her for the war than Bush :shrug:

[mrdemocrat78]

14. but she still hasn't said "I was wrong"

and as silly as it sounds, it's not the same thing.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. who gives a fuck?

The ONLY people who harp on this issue would never vote for her anyway.

Bush would've gone to war without a single Democratic vote on the IWR. Her vote had absolutely no effect on Bush's plans.

It's his war, not hers.

[mrdemocrat78]

27. I agree with you

but you know what's going to happen. But I will say that at least it's not a card ANY republican can use after the primary. They all voted for it too, and most of them still stick by it.

[MonkeyFunk]

35. it didn't hurt Kerry in the primaries

It's a bullshit issue used by Hillary-haters.

Every minute spent blaming Dems for the war is a minute wasted.

[Taverner]

7. McCain will lose if intelligent people run the Dem campaign

Let's just hope it's not the DLC. They aren't just neo-cons, they lose elections too.

[MonkeyFunk]

13. yeah

that Bill Clinton sure never won :eyes:

[Taverner]

18. Two sucesses and many failures

Al Gore in 2000, congress in 94, 96, 2000...

It wasn't until Dean's 50 State Strategy that they started winning again.

And Clinton won against two right wingers...

Don't get me wrong, Clintonomics worked . Gutting welfare was a tragedy, but the Clinton Economy was a masterpiece.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. sorry

that's just wrong.

Gore ran AWAY from the DLC in 2000.

And how do you blame the DLC for congress? Only a few congresspeople (relatively) are DLC members. The DLC doesn't run campaigns.

And Bush and Dole were not terribly far-right.

[Taverner]

26. Terry McAuliffe

He ran the DNC during that time. He ran it into the ground.

And he was DLC.

It's all about where you concentrate your efforts.

[MonkeyFunk]

42. then blame McAuliffe

Look, I'm not a big fan of the DLC, either, but I think a lot of people assign WAY too much power and influence to them.

It's a think-tank.

[Taverner]

46. But it's also a club

I, too, think too much is attributed to them. But their election style is to concentrate on very large states, get out the vote there, and ignore everywhere else.

Dean designed the 50-State strategy, which works.

But members of the club like Rahm Emanuel don't like it because they didn't think of it.

[MonkeyFunk]

49. No

the DLC does NOT run campaigns.

The DNC did, and there are plenty of arguments to be made that McAuliffe was not successful at the DNC, but stop conflating the two.

Edit: Actually, not even the DNC runs campaigns. Candidates run their campaigns, with help from the DNC.

[azmouse]

9. Gore will be re-elected in '08

[terrya]

15. As much as a lot of people like the idea...

including myself....I don't think Gore will run. I take him at his word about this. I don't think his heart is in a run in 2008.

[mrdemocrat78]

17. but he also says not to rule it out... FLIP FLOP, lol

[azmouse]

29. Should we list some Rep flip flops for you

or would you rather not hear about them?

Gore IS NOT flip flopping and that is the dumbest thing the Republics ever said!!!!

[azmouse]

25. Olbermann talked about this a little on his show recently.

KO said that Gore wouldn't say absolutely that he'd run. But KO had the impression that Gore was giving it some serious thought.

If Gore ran, I would work my ass off to see him elected. We so desperately need an intelligent President.

[mrdemocrat78]

37. Olberman would make good VP

[azmouse]

39. Smartest thing you've said.

[mrdemocrat78]

16. That would be awesome

I think he will probably wait to see if hillary or obama really screw up to announce. If we have really strong candidates, there is no need.

[wildhorses]

22. i wonder who you think as veep?

gore/?

[mrdemocrat78]

31. he'd never do it

Ford, I'd like to see him

[azmouse]

32. I could really see Obama as Veep.

A Gore/Obama ticket... yesss!!!

[Taverner]

23. Right now, anything can happen

And I mean anything

If an asteroid hits the White House When George and Dick are home, President Pelosi wouldn't surprise me.

[mrdemocrat78]

33. Naw... We're gonna impeach them

then we get prez pelosi. Wouldn't that piss hillary off, lol

[Pierre.Suave]

36. Two words

BILL RICHARDSON.

[William Bloode]

51. For what it's worth.

I was watching Tucker's show today. He did a segment where they went through several past presidential elections. It showed that this far out none of the leaders at the time ended up winning the nomination.