Mother Had Intercourse With Boyfriend In Front Of 9 Year Old Daughter To Teach Her About Sex

[matcom]

<snip>

PROVIDENCE, R.I. — A Woonsocket mother and her boyfriend are headed to trial on charges they had intercourse in front of the woman's 9-year-old daughter as a way to teach the girl about sex.

Rebecca Arnold, of Woonsocket, and her boyfriend, David Prata, have pleaded not guilty to felony child-neglect charges. A pre-trial conference is scheduled for next month.

When questioned by an investigator from the state Department of Children, Youth and Families, Prata, 33, said he and Arnold, 36, had sex "all the time" in front of the child and that "we don't believe in hiding anything."

He said the girl would often be on the bed watching as the couple had sex. Though they did not ask her to leave, they also did not force her to remain on the bed, Prata said.

Asked why he thought a child that age should know about sexual acts, Prata replied, "We wanted to prepare her so she would know how," according to a report from the investigator, Vanessa E. Cisela

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251296,00.html

[uppityperson]

1. Glad they didn't touch her or make her participate.

[Coventina]

2. okay, I hereby apologize to my late mother

for thinking she was off the hook by showing me her episiotomy (sp?) stiches.

This story is much, much worse.

[xchrom]

3. i suddenly have guilt welling up all over me.

[Radio_Lady]

22. Yeah, me too. We forgot to lock the bedroom door a couple of times.

However, this is dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

[philosophie_en_rose]

4. Would they step in front of a bus to teach her about street safety?

[Maine-ah]

38. they should....

[Art_from_Ark]

61. Apples and oranges

You're talking about something that is obviously dangerous and often fatal, versus something that should be pleasurable and is ultimately an integral part of most people's lives.

[LynzM]

5. Normal in some cultures. Not normal in ours.

With that in consideration, and given that she was not a participant in any way, I'm kinda torn about whether this is actually wrong and ought to be prosecuted or not. How many kids have walked in on their parents having sex? Plenty. Need more info.

[Katherine Brengle]

8. Honest question: where on this planet is that normal? nt

[nedbal]

9. everywhere where the family lives in one room, it is common in many cultures

This reminds me a NYC case years back where a Finnish Tourist left her baby in a carriage outside a store she was in for a short time. While it was common in Finland, NYC at first glance called it child neglect

[Katherine Brengle]

10. I'd have to agree with the law on that one...

but I'm American, so obviously my frame of reference is biased that way...

Weird though...

[nedbal]

11. 200% agree - - Americans frame of reference is biased .......

comes from the Victorian English culture

[Katherine Brengle]

15. Like, literally right now I can't even free my mind enough

to consider the possibility of what these people did being okay... or at least not evil.

That really bothers me.

:(

[HEyHEY]

18. Well, I'm sure the folks would at least TRY to hide it

Though, I'm not positive

[CJCRANE]

36. I think you mean

normal amongst dirt poor people who have to live in one room by necessity.

It isn't normal in terms of mainstream Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc values.

[Art_from_Ark]

63. What about countries like Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands

and so on? Is it normal there? Or at least not considered to be socially abhorrent?

[Runcible Spoon]

64. believe it or not, the desire to have SUVs, McMansions is NOT biological

there are plenty of people around the world who see nothing wrong with their way of life, and the main reasons why they suffer is because of the effects of globalization on their ability to provide for themselves, by raping their land and polluting their water sources for example. The issue is NOT the morality of children witnessing sex, rather it is why we are enculturated to see such behavior as taboo.

[CalebHayes]

78. agreed

[MrSlayer]

6. How is that neglecting the child?

It's more like "too much information". They didn't molest the kid or anything but who knows whether or not they were grooming her for a later date? This is a strange case.

[Katherine Brengle]

7. Sorry but that's sexual abuse.

I can't believe they are only being charged with neglect.

That's fucked up.

[Courtesy Flush]

71. I work for child protection

In my state they would be investigated for sexual abuse: enticement.

Also, the story indicated what statements the couple had given the CPS investigator. That's crap! One thing that's drilled into our heads from day one is confidentiality. No way anyone would tell the press what had been said to an investigator, and the courtroom would be closed to all outsiders.

Hard to believe Rhode Island would be any different.

[regnaD kciN]

79. I would only note...

...that this story came from Faux News. Why am I not surprised?

[JVS]

12. Was this some kind of idea for discouraging her from ever having sex?

[Critters2]

13. I'm always grateful for people who do things that make my family look

perfectly healthy. Doesn't explain why I am the way I am, but it's nice to know my parents were comparatively good.

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. You know, in almost any other country people would go, "So what?"

Oooh.... sex..... naked..... body parts..... ooooooh, bad evil naughty naughty naughty taboo bad evcil bad evil taboo naughty naughty shame shame hate your body hate your body it's bad evil naughty awful yucky taboo evil bad.

Rabrrrrrr :eyes: while making the jerk-off motion with his hand in the air.

[HEyHEY]

16. I don't know about that, man

I think alot of countries would have an issue with this.

[Left Is Write]

23. I think sex is good and that no one should feel ashamed of his or her body.

That does not mean, however, that I think my husband's and my sex life ought to be a spectator sport for our children.

[Radio_Lady]

25. I think America is pretty up-tight about sex, and tried to be "expansive" in my marriage.

As newly-weds, we had five children from the ages of 2 to 14.

I tried to convert them to nudism, at least not to have the my stepdaughters hiding their bodies from each other at ages 12 and 9.

What I did not realize then is that their nuclear family didn't ascribe to this agenda. Their mother was very conservative, but now she was dead.

Suffice it to say that some of my liberalism came back to bite me in the ass.

All three girls (including my own, who was two at the time) have now told me in no uncertain terms that I stepped over the boundary lines.

Hey, it was 1972, 1973, 1974. The age of free love, etc. I tell my daughter that I did the best I could given who I was in my 30s.

[Maine-ah]

39. thankyou...

you are most correct

[Downtown Hound]

17. Well, maybe I'm too liberal but,

I say so the fuck what? Our culture is so squeamish about sex, to the point where even allowing a child to view it is a crime. To me, that's what's unnatural.

That being said, I don't know if this was really the best way to teach their kids about it, I'm just not sure this is a case that needs to end up in criminal court. Flame away. I've learned it's relatively useless to argue about such things in the current political climate in this here land of the free.

[Porcupine]

19. So what happens in all those single room houses

all over the world? There are quite a few of them just south of the US border.

Hell in some tropical cultures the shelters don't even have walls. Is all of that abuse also?

I think if I had ever seen my parents having sex that would have put me off a few years. Right now I'm single and lock the kids out of the room before I remove a sock. Can't have those puritans having fits.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Interesting question

When I first took Japanese, many years ago, one of our instructors told us that he grew up in a two-room house, and that he and his parents and brothers all slept in one room.

One of the guys in the class asked him about his parents having sex, and he said that he didn't remember anything like that. Now that he thought of it, he wondered what his parents did, whether they were just real quiet after all the kids were asleep, or what.

Anyway, I'm reminded of that scene in Dances with Wolves...

[Withywindle]

20. This should replace "abstinence-only" "education"...

I can't think of a better way to make kids never want to have sex EVER.

[mike_c]

21. typical American Victorian repressed sexuality, IMO....

I wouldn't have been comfortable having sex in front of my daughter at that age, but I don't think there's anything especially wrong with it either. It's not like the ex and I were doing anything weird-- it was tender, loving affection. What's wrong with showing that to kids?

[liberalhistorian]

59. Mike, I'm sorry, but that is just plain wrong.

As someone else pointed out above, you wouldn't teach your kids about street safety by jumping out in front of a bus or car.

There are some things that should always be private, and sex is one of them. Sure, there's nothing wrong with a small amount of PDA's or holding hands or hugging or things like that in front of kids, not at all. But NOT sex! That's a line that just shouldn't be crossed.

I'll never forget the one time I walked in on my parents, it was during the daytime and they'd forgotten to lock the door. I think I was around eleven or so. I don't think any of us had ever been so embarrassed before or since. Believe me, I did not learn about love, affection and sex, I assure you, it was nothing but pure embarrassment. I think that we instinctively consider sex private, and that's the way it should be.

[CanuckAmok]

26. Well, better from mom than from HBO.

Not enough parents get involved in child-rearing these days.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

27. Oh brother...

What a moron.

[mockmonkey]

28. I once asked my Mother

"Where do babies come from?" Her answer, "Woonsocket."

[sakabatou]

29. O_O

[hyphenate]

30. We place such a stigma on sex here

in our country that things like sex get people in an uproar without due perspective.

Has the religious right really got us backed into their corner of puritanical judgement? Must we really give them a victory over this?

Whether we agree or disagree with the choice of the mother and her boyfriend in this case, the better way to look at it is through the eyes of a society that seeks to impose limits and laws over our personal lives. We, liberals, need to remember that in all its contexts, whether we agree with an individual case or not, our first choice is to remember that freedom of privacy is one of our positions. We want the ability to keep our bedroom doors closed from the outside world, and to stop judging us for whatever we do in that bedroom. We don't want legislature to penetrate into our lives on that level at all.

Yes, there is a child involved in this, but overall, nothing horrific happened. Okay, so perhaps might see a hint of "sexual abuse" by the mother, allowing her daughter to see her in a sexual act, but tell me, which is more damaging to a 9 year old child--a normal sexual act, or the evening news, with death, violence, corpses, repeated assault, stories of beheadings, stepping on landmines, children being used as human shields, flag covered coffins, and neverending scenes of blood, gore, corruption, lies, and more? Give pause for a moment before answering. The religious right hopes you will answer the sex act--common sense and practicality says that violence is worse than sex in every single possible case, except, of course, for the times when children are being violated.

In this particular case, it would have made more common sense to kick the child out of the room, but the mother should be faulted for simple idiocy, not sexual abuse. I would personally worry more if the child saw a random act of violence--her psyche would have been more horribly damaged from such an event, whereas seeing a sexual act is only going to pique her curiosity to learn out more about sex, which might actually be beneficial in the long run!

Seriously, there are commercials on every single day, nearly every single hour, for erectile dysfunction, for personal lubricant, and for pregnancy tests; the number of "four-letter words" has decreased slowly over the past forty years to the point where I think there are only 3 or 4(?) left; and kids surfing the internet see more sex websites than their parents can ever guess. While the religious right cites all these things as a deteriorating society, the truth is, there are so many things which have remained secret far too long: the lies and the evil cannot live in the light of day. Incest, pedophilia, molestations--how many children suffered through these things for years as the adults in their lives failed to protect them, or even worse, actually were the abusers?

Simple sex should not be a forbidden subject! Straight or gay, bringing things into the open and discussing them take away the mystique that somehow imparts a sense of nastiness to the subject. Talking about sex should be natural, affirming, and more than anything, honest.

Our negative reaction to this supposed "crime" shows that the notion of sex as dirty, evil, naughty, and ugly continues in many of us even now, especially when children are involved. It is only when our children are armed with the truth, the facts and the ability to ascertain what is good and pure and biologically joyful that they will have far less hangups, far less detrimental attitudes and far fewer questions than my generation, or truly, any generation that preceded them. And, if we do our job right, those who will follow us will also have a more guarded attitude toward violence--they will see war as the true evil, the killer of mankind, and the inglorious nature of it, instead of the conservative notion that war is in any way glorious or needed.

I shake my head at this woman and her boyfriend, but to be outraged to the point where puritan notions rule the moment, I just can't feel that. Common sense is a commodity that we need to distribute more homogeneously, even while we should stick up our middle fingers at the religious right and their hopelessly confused priorities. They have got to be shut down at every possible turn and shown for the hypocrites that they really are and always have been. Evil cannot stand the light of day. but the force of truth can help to drag people from the medieval sensibilities toward sex and show that some light on the subject goes a long way in helping make sex the natural and joyous activity it really can be.

[Withywindle]

31. Thanks for such a thoughtful post amid the snark (including mine)

I think the piece of the puzzle we're not getting here is - how does the girl feel about it? Does it seem comfortable and normal to her? Does she WANT to watch it or does she feel pressured to be there? Is she fascinated, disgusted...what's going on with her? Her feelings should be the priority.

There's a fine line to walk when it comes to protecting children from exploitation and sexual abuse. While that should be done at all costs, sometimes it's hard to separate from a vein of puritanism in American society. I think it's almost as damaging to try to "protect" young people from any representation of sexuality until the magic, arbitrary 18--when that might be as much as six or seven or eight years past puberty. Who are the foam-padding crowd kidding?

There's a real fetishization of "innocence" as it pertains to sexuality and sexual knowledge--talk about Victorian holdovers, it comes from the same propaganda as the larger idealization of childhood and the "angel in the kitchen" mentality about "good" women. Yet, funny - I remember the exact trauamtic moment when what I would consider my "innocence" was lost: it was when I happened to see that Time magazine cover with the hundreds of bloated dead bodies on it after the Jonestown mass suicide and asking my parents to explain why they would do that--which was around the same time my mother was grief-stricken over a friend of hers who'd shot herself. I was 7. What does sex have to do with innocence, when compared to that? Yet I wouldn't argue that children should be sheltered entirely from the news or from the griefs in their parents' lives either.

I also don't see why it's considered OK and not innocence-shattering to see human bodies blown to pieces (which you can see in some PG and PG-13 rated movies) and yet not human bodies sharing mutual pleasure. That makes zero sense to me. If I had children, I would certainly hope they had active and healthy and happy sex lives someday when they were ready (regardless of orientation) and I would certainly hope they were never involved in violence. I don't think that hope is uncommon (at least I hope not!)

That said, I don't know anybody who would want to watch their parents have sex, or anybody who'd want their children to watch them have sex. Even if it's purely educational, there's just something about it that makes both generations twitch - it does ping the incest taboo.

[philosophie_en_rose]

44. If a father masturbates in front of his daughter, it is child abuse.

His masturbation habits would really be none of my business. It can be healthy and I don't look down on it. However, it is just not okay to masturbate in public or in front of children. Why? Because you're inflicting yourself on others. It involves them in sexual situations and that are neither healthy nor legal.

Children do not have to witness their parents having sex to learn about sex or to believe that it's a normal thing to do. It is not that sex is dirty or bad, but that the parents are behaving inappropriately.

The parents here are not teaching their daughter to celebrate sex or the human body. They are teaching her that it is okay for adults to let her children be involved in their sexual acts - whether as a witness or worse. They are grooming her for pedophiles.

And I seriously question anyone that enjoys having sex in front of children.

[mentalsolstice]

32. I so not want to go here and get this t-shirt! eom

[Ellen Forradalom]

33. How did the authorities find out, anyway?

I come down on the side of BAD IDEA, but I'm not sure a felony conviction is necessary. A frank word with the adults concerned might've been sufficient.

You can give kids information about sex without a demonstration. I read Our Bodies Ourselves cover to cover when I was nine years old. I had a few Q&A sessions with my mother afterwards, and kept the book for reference over the years. That worked fine.

[Nicole]

34. The girl told her teacher

who reported it to the Child Abuse Hotline.

[Swamp Rat]

35. Think of the BILLIONS of single family dwellings in this world.

BIG families living in a single room/structure. ;)

[jobycom]

37. Another example of why we have one of the most abusive legal systems in the world

We are the most incarcerated society on the planet, not because we are the most evil, but because we criminalize actions that in most other countries wouldn't be illegal. Here you can have your life ruined for not following a strict moral code, often based on outdated or even senseless religious assumptions. At one point in our history the law was used only to ban actions that were clearly harmful to someone (though the definition of harmful might change). Now the law believes its purpose is to judge whether every single action we take should be allowed or not. The emphasis of the law has changed from deciding what to prevent to deciding what to allow.

In many places this act would not be illegal or even unusual, and yet here it will ruin the lives of the couple and their daughter for years to come, maybe for the rest of their lives. All because we still think of sex as an inherently immoral act, only to be allowed under certain conditions. We will put this couple in jail for letting the child witness something that she can see on the Internet, on cable tv, and increasingly on prime time television. Letting our kids learn about sex from popular music, videos, tv commercials, and badly written romantic (or often brutal) scripts is okay, but refusing to hide the actual act in actual everday context is forbidden.

This is not something I would do, but it is not something our legal system should destroy lives over. I've come to believe our legal system is the most abusive in the world. We are pretty good on the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, but the number of crimes we can be proven guilty of is beyond reason. It is so normal for us to think of people going to jail that we rarely stop and think about the big picture. What is jail for? What are we accomplishing with it? We forcibly take years off the lives of human beings just because we feel uncomfortable with something they've done. These parents didn't hurt this child in any way, didn't force this child to do anything, and may have even given the child a healthier attitude towards sex than most of us, judging from this thread, grew up with, and yet the question of "what did they do wong" will probably not even be asked. Americans just knows what they did wrong, and why they should be in jail. The response is so automatic we don't even question it anymore. We incarcerate a percentage of our population that stuns the rest of the world--even places we mistakenly feel more free than, and often just because we can't think of any reason to allow an action.

Seems to me that's the attitude most our citizens fled other countries--whether in colonial days or more recently--to escape. We the People have become the dictators.

[LoZoccolo]

55. The 9 year-old complained to a teacher.

Did you read the article? If the 9 year-old was upset, then yes, someone was harmed.

[Art_from_Ark]

62. There is no mention in the article of complaining to the teacher

Here is the excerpt from the article:

"Her teacher called the Child Abuse Hotline in December 2004 to report that the girl said her mother and her boyfriend had sex in front of her."

The key words are "...to report that the girl had said..." not "the girl had complained..."

The teacher could just as likely have overheard the child talking to another child about it.

[Cruzan]

40. If you look at the thread title quickly it seems to read 'Mother Teresa...'

[tigereye]

41. I think the intention of "teaching kids" is the real problem

people who do this kind of stuff intentionally usually have some problems with boundaries. There's an exhibitionistic kind of quality to it and it shows really poor personal boundaries.

There are probably a lot of people in the world who, by necessity, have sex in the same room where kids are; since there is little or no privacy, but I suspect they don't advertise it, and don't have any kids sit on the bed and watch. That's creepy.

Therein would seem to lie the problem.

[Madspirit]

42. Sexual abuse

To those who have mentioned that in some cultures the people are so poor they all live in one room, ergo must fuck in front of the kids, this isn't OTHER cultures, this is our culture. ...AND just because they are so poor they are forced to live in one room, doesn't mean they fuck in front of the kids.

Besides which, I have friends that poor, who live in one room and I have oddball friends who even have the Family Bed thingie going and they don't DO IT in front of the children.

This is childhood sexual abuse. You don't have to touch a kid to make it sexual abuse. Exposing yourself to a child, in a sexual way, is sexual abuse. Having sex in front of a kid is sexual abuse. This child will suffer from PTSD. This child will be fucked up. I guarantee it. ...and it is also neglect. They are neglecting the welfare of the child. ...and "benign neglect" is an oxymoron. Neglect is never benign. I've worked with rape victims and people who were sexually abused as children, etc. There is no healthy behavior here. This makes me puke.
Lee

[TK421]

60. Very well put...I don't give a shit what third world country this goes on in

this is America...we should be better and above that shit.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Little Wing]

45. heh

yep, things like this seem to turn into a "I'm more progressive than you" contest, and in this case it's really idiot. I'm just hoping people just read the headline and threw up an opinion.

[mike_c]

46. you know, when my wife and I had sex it was tender and loving...

...and didn't involve any behavior I'd be ashamed of, or not want my daughter to know about. You would honestly maintain that letting one's children see their parents expressing their love for one another that way is "sexual abuse?"

[Madspirit]

48. I work with these people

I KNOW it's sexual abuse. I see the results of it every damned day. Kids this age don't even "get" what sex is, ergo cannot understand what you are claiming is "tender and loving".

If a teenager accidentally walked in on it, I doubt it would result in much more than "EWWWWW" and some embarrassment. We are talking about a nine year old who was upset enough she told a teacher. That itself answers your question.

Once again, I WORK with victims of this. I KNOW it is abuse because I see the results of it, every day. It's not up to YOU to decide that something doesn't traumatize a child because it doesn't fit your "touchy feelie, we are one" desire for the world. It's what it is. Go visit a shelter or something.
Lee

[mike_c]

49. ok-- sounds to me like you have some personal issues in this regard...

...that make it rather pointless to discuss it. All my best to you.

[Madspirit]

51. Yes I do.

I work with victims of childhood sexual abuse, trauma survivors. That's my job. So yes, I have personal issues about. *snerk*
Lee

[philosophie_en_rose]

56. Good for you.

Thank you for making a commitment to deal with the reality of abuse, instead of imagining that children should just get over it.

No wonder children don't come forward, when there are so many people willing to discount them.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[NashVegas]

58. No, You Don't Know It Is

Unless you know more of the details in this case than are in the published report.

If there's nothing more than what the story describes, what the couple did is inappropriate but not worthy of felony charges.

As a poster in the GD discussion said, neglect is when you don't do anything to prepare your kids for sex.

[XemaSab]

47. Agreed

The cultural relativist arguments I find appalling.

Just because some Africans practice FGM, or the Sambia think 7 year old boys need to fellate adult men, or the Bengalis traditionally married girls who had not yet begun menstruating, or whatever, some liberal somewhere is going to use these as an argument for current practices today, and that's not cool.

[Madspirit]

50. "The cultural relativist arguments I find appalling."

Thank-you! I quit giving a shit about "cultural sensitivity" the very first second I found out about female genital mutilation. I have found that cultures tend to whine about "sensitivity" when they want to commit an atrocity against one of their own, usually a woman or child, and don't want anyone to say "boo" about it.
Lee

[Runcible Spoon]

66. RE: FGM...

the sad truth is that in many groups that practice FGM, it is the matriarchs who have control and influence over the girls. Most often the women perform the "surgery". Men usually are clueless about the practice itself and only care to the point that their wives are virgins and not sleeping with any other man. I'm not saying this to argue that it is not barbaric and horrific, or that it doesn't have the effect of further marginalizing women, but only to argue that a whole host of factors must be examined to decipher WHY this practice is offensive to some and not to others, and to interrogate our OWN cultural biases, before we deign to impose our morals on the rest of the world.

[Madspirit]

84. not just the rest of the world

**before we deign to impose our morals on the rest of the world.**


When it comes to protecting children I will happily impose my morals on the entire world, ours included.

You need to go read some at Amnesty International. Go read some at a Children's Advocates site. Care more about the needs of those too small and young to protect themselves than you care about your rhetoric. Then the world will be a better place.

I SEE the damage this crap does to children and the adults who suffered this as children, every single day.
Lee

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

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[Runcible Spoon]

93. Ooo personal attack

:eyes:

[Runcible Spoon]

65. strawman.

there is a difference between culturally isolated practices and the issue at hand; in MOST of the world the viewing of sex is considered a non-issue. The only reason people are "sexually abused" by instances like this is because of OUR culturally peculiar notions of puritanism. So ironically the outrage at this is tantamount to the practice of FGM, Sambian puberty rites (I'm guessing your anthro 101 prof showed "Guardians of the Flutes"; I show it to my class :)), the marrying of prepubescent girls, oh and you forgot cannabalism :p because such practices and beliefs are specifically enculturated and not a biological universal, as sex is.

[XemaSab]

67. It's not just the girl seeing sex

It's mom's boyfriend (who is NOT her dad) masturbating to porn in front of her, it's these people thinking she needed to be "taught how to do it right," it's a whole host of issues.

Also, the fact remains that in our culture, this is NOT normal. There is a reason why people who sexualize children are considered criminals.

If your third-grade girl went over to the house of a friend and her friend's dad started masturbating in front of her, would she be allowed to go over there again? Would you call the cops? :shrug:

[Runcible Spoon]

68. I didn't see any reference to porn in the article...are you reading another?

you're also putting some judgmental words into context that weren't there..."taught how to do it...and then you insert "right". There is a difference between a child witnessing the sex of parent(s) and a stranger masturbating for no good reason besides his own sexual enjoyment, so again this is a stretch. Of course I question the judgment of the mother for not recognizing the prescripted cultural boundaries and perhaps just avoiding a mess of trouble, but from what's in the article, this is NOT child abuse.

[XemaSab]

70. There's another article

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6173907

[Runcible Spoon]

72. well, I'll be honest, the masturbation by an adult male is worrisome...

for the reason that these sex acts were made a spectacle, it seems, as opposed to if the girl just showed curiosity and they allowed her to watch the sex. I'll concede that.

[Name removed]

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[girl gone mad]

81. Good post.

I wish the people defending this abusive behavior would actually sit and think for a minute. Do they really believe they would be okay if their parents had masturbated in front of them and asked them to come sit on the bed and watch while they had sex? I think I'm scarred just having the idea of it in my head for 3 seconds. This child will be seriously damaged.

Poor people living in single room dwellings send the kids out or wait until they are asleep to do it. They don't make it a family affair.

[Taverner]

57. You know I'm betting this started with the best of intentions

and went horribly wrong shortly after...

[Runcible Spoon]

69. how did it go horribly wrong?

:shrug: I think it's an interesting representation of perspectives myself

[Taverner]

75. Well they might have thought "let's raise our kids in an open environment"

But then the idea of having sex in front of the kids...a bit too far

[MichiganVote]

74. Yeah sure, sort of like a bank robber who just wanted to

make a simple withdrawl for the best of intentions, with a gun. Come on. There are all kinds of voyeurs in the world.


edit/typo

[BreweryYardRat]

73. That's horribly wrong.

No way in hell should a nine year old kid be exposed to sex. Give them a book tailored to explain that sort of thing to their age group, or tell them you'll explain in a few years.

Nothing wrong with not wanting a repressed kid, but this is way over the line.

[BlueIris]

76. Thanks for creating yet another sociopath, Ms. Arnold.

I feel sick.

[CalebHayes]

77. I don't think this is THAT wrong...

I mean, how many times did you walk in on your parents or wake up in the middle of the night and hear something you wish you never heard. Is that abuse? What if you found your dad's porn collection? Heck what if it was just sitting on the counter? Is that abuse?

I do not agree with what these people did but I do think that people have a fundamental right to raise their kids the way they see fit w/o the government always steeping in. Sorry if you think I'm a wack job.

[Tulum_Moon]

80. So many things wrong with this

There are so many things wrong with this. And why are so many people saying it is O.K.? Mike C. pull your head out already.

[Madspirit]

83. Absolutely a Wack Job

What if parents thought beating a child and keeping them locked in the closet was Okey dokey?

I personally wish the government would interfere much much more often. A child is not your property to do with as you please. ...and this story wasn't about a child accidentally walking in on their parents. This story was about a nine year old girl being TAUGHT sex by her parents doing it in front of her.

This is about protecting a child. To pervert it into a thread about government interference is sick.
Lee

[Bassic]

82. Oh good lord.

:banghead:

[noonwitch]

85. Sick people

Most parents (or partners of parents) who sexually abuse their kids usually claim they did it in the context of teaching their children about sex. I've been working in children's services for 20 years, I can't tell you how many times I've heard that one. Enough to wish we carried guns sometimes.

[Madspirit]

94. Thank-you noonwitch.

I also work with the victims of this kind of abuse and mentality. It's stunning that anyone could believe this crap is OK. I wish they could see the fall-out. First hand.


Lee

[Hugin]

86. FOXNEWS?!?!?!

*cough* *cough*

*tsk* matcom *tsk* *tsk* Couldn't you have at least waited until it'd made it to
a slightly more reputable site... Like NPR.

[ileus]

87. JFC what a couple of fuddernuts...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

88. Acch, the heatenf!

Cavoting around in front of children like animalf or favagef! Surely an affront to OUR LORD!

[Deep13]

90. And they say romance is dead.

x(

[guitar man]

91. good gawd!!

I don't think the Mrs and I could ever intentionally have sex in front of our daughter. I mean, I'm sure such a method of "teaching" would generate more questions than I'd care to try to answer anyway, like:

Mommy, what are those handcuffs for?
What are those funny looking toys??
Why is daddy spanking you, and why do you like it???
WTF is the car battery and jumper cables doing in here????
A whole case of whipped cream?????
Can I borrow some of these porno tapes??????
Diving mask and swim fins????????......never mind, I'm outta here, you guys are sick......

.....yeah, we better keep the door locked, it would never work




:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[Ms_Dem_Meanor]

95. Your sig line is my response. n/t

[joe_sixpack]

96. Sex may be a beautiful thing,,,

But let's face it, if you look at it from the perspective of a child, especially a child young enough not to have even experienced sexual desire itself, sex might actually appear violent. Especially good sex with all the grunting, thrusting and heavy breathing going on. No, it's a beautiful thing in concept, but not always so in practice. Not many ways this could be positive for a child that age. And there's nothing prudish, Victorian or right wingish about believing that.

[Samurai_Writer]

97. And who knows what other abuse was going on...

I'd bet anything that there was more involved than just having that girl 'watch'. One of my dearest friends was severely physically, sexually and mentally abused by both her parents. The sexual abuse started when she was very young, being forced to watch her parents have sex. It only escalated from there. I won't go into details -- she told me the entire story once, having to let it out to someone, and it seared into my memory forever. The most horrible story you can ever imagine. She died at age 32 of complications from the flu, but I really think it was her parents' abuse that killed her -- she became an alcoholic (who wouldn't after all that) and her body just gave out on her. She left an 11 year old son behind.

Anytime I see stories like this, it reminds me of her. If the authorities know about the 'smaller' forms of abuse, you can bet there are larger forms of abuse going on they probably don't know about. Just because the girl is saying nothing else went on, that doesn't mean there hasn't been. Abuse victims are known to protect their abuser, especially if it is a parent or relative.

RIP, Melody.

[Madspirit]

98. Exactly

I was told I was being overly because I work with people who have suffered this way and therefore have strong feelings about it. The person also said I shouldn't work in the field because I feel so strongly about it. Ludicrous and disingenuous much. IF you do work in the field and you don't have strong feelings about it, something is very wrong with you. It turns my stomach that anyone could see this as OK. It bothered the little girl enough that she told a teacher. THAT means something. Anyone who thinks this is OK should be required to visit a shelter and speak to the victims of this kind of abuse.
Lee

[Samurai_Writer]

99. I get to add a bunch of people to my Ignore list whenever abuse or rape topics come up

I rarely respond to the people who agree with or stand up for the abusers or rapists in those threads. But they get put on my ignore list, so I don't have to read their drivel again.

[Madspirit]

100. That's what I did.

They are now on Ignore. It's such a nice feature.
Lee