Need parenting advice! Please help, DU!

[Seeking Serenity]

Here's the story:

I have an 11-y.o. (soon to be 12) boy who is a bit of a disciplinary problem at school. Today was the second day this school year he has had to serve a Saturday detention. His infraction range from talking too much (a persisent problem) to disrupting class to failure to follow a reasonable request.

He has had these types of problems since kindergarten. DH, the Republican, and I have tried to find someway into his head to affect a change of behavior, but have failed thus far. We have removed privileges (no TV, no computer, we don't have a gaming system to take away, so that's out) from him so often that he doesn't even notice their gone anymore. Corporal punishment is right out (interestingly enough, DH opposes it even more than I).

I'd love some creative discipline ideas that might reach this kid.

[Zookeeper]

1. Have him tested for ADD/ADHD...

If he has had the problems since Kindergarten, that sounds like a good bet. "Failure to follow a reasonable request," that's the kind of behavior that starts to develop later with ADD/ADHD after a child starts to feel like they are always wrong and getting in trouble for things they can't control.

My eldest son (with ADD) started showing signs in the first and second grade, but wasn't diagnosed until the fifth grade. Those years in between really affected his self-esteem and made him fairly passive-agressive and quietly defiant.

Do you reward him for good behavior? It's more difficult to catch a kid being good, than bad, but it does seem to be a more effective way to change behavior.

:hug:

[Maine-ah]

2. I agree

sounds like my BIL, he has ADHD, and he's 13

[Kali]

3. Does any kid who gets tested ever get a NOT ADD/AHDD diagnosis?

When you get the diagnosis everybody will try to make him take meds. For some this is a good solution but I suspect for the majority it is just the easy way out. Try to make the school work on OTHER non-chemical strategies.

I am raising my niece with all the same issues. With a lot of FIRM insistance on my part the school is doing its job without meds. She is doing well.

[Maine-ah]

5. yes.

I have a niece that was tested.

[dropkickpa]

4. Perhaps punishments aren't the way to go

Have you tried getting him involved in an activity that requires personal discipline? I was always a HUGE discipline problem, both for my parents and for teachers, and neither really knew how to deal with/harness that. The only thing that really changed it was when I started playing soccer at 11. All of a sudden, here was something I really loved doing (it was my idea to join), but it required that I take some responsibility for my actions if I wanted to be able to participate. I noticed that I wasn't quite as defiant and unruly, and was able to focus a bit better (I was still not an angel by any stretch, but I wasn't as bad as I was).

Dropkid is shaping up the same way (everybody in my family tells me she is EXACTLY the way I was, and that it's scary). I've gotten her involved in sports (baseball and soccer) and I and others notice a huge difference in her attitude during the sports seasons, and she is learning for herself that listening to authority is not *always* a horrible thing. Punishment (grounding, removal of priveleges, etc) works just as well for her as it did for me, which is to say not at all.

For me (and DK it seems) positive reinforcement was/is the best way to go. Negative reinforcements just made me that much more sullen, resentful, and defiant when I deigned to notice them at all. It sounds like it's working just as well for you as it did for my parents. Lucky for me, my parents never threatened to take away my soccer priveleges, as that would have just induced yet another "cut off my nose to spite my face" reaction in me and I would have quit. Having soccer as a constant was the one thing that kept me from REALLY going over the deep end. I played through to my senior year. In fact, that's the only reason I even WENT to school my senior year, as I'd gotten screwed out of the science class i wanted and was stuck with one history class I liked and the rest were electives I'd already taken before. I actually dropped out after soccer season ended (went to an accelerated alternative school the next year to get my stupid gym credit so I could get my diploma).

It doesn't have to be sports, it could be an art class, dance, music, drama, anything that he enjoys that requires some discipline, maybe a martial arts class, the possibilities are endless. But, I wouldn't use the threat of witholding that activity as a method of discipline. If he finds something he truly enjoys and wants to work at, the positive effects of that will spill over into other parts of his life.

That's what I would do.

[somewhere_out_there]

6. I agree a lot with this....

My children are grown, but I was very successful in discipline (which, by the way, was very minimal) because I was extremely involved with them from babies on, and let them be involved in whatever interested them. There may be medical issues (and it doesn't hurt to find out, but meds are so overused in young children today - kind of a cop out for parenting). I worked full time and stayed in touch with all of their activities and interests, and I think that is the biggest key to successfully getting through. However, keep in mind, hormones now are going to start to kick in, and even the loveliest of children can turn monstrous at the drop of a hat during that phase.

Good luck to you.

[Whoa_Nelly]

7. Good advice!

Martial Arts could be good. He would have to answer to his sensei.

[Seeking Serenity]

10. Hmmm. Martial arts.

Good be a good idea.

DH took ninjutsu for years until he hurt his back. I 'spect he'd approve.

[zingaro]

8. Yes. This was our experience as well.

[femmocrat]

9. Middle school teacher here....

I agree, have him evaluated for ADD/ADHD. The middle school years are turbulent enough without always being in hot water at school. I have seen a lot of students who have improved tremendously after a correct diagnosis. It doesn't necessarily mean he will be zoned out on drugs. Talk to you school's guidance counselors and nurse for better advice than I can give.

Just imagine your son in a classroom filled with 25-30 other students. If you think he could cope better without the behavior problems and distractions of a busy middle school, you might think about home schooling for short while until he is "stabilized" (sorry, for lack of a better word.) The school will provide his materials and a visiting teacher if needed.

[MichiganVote]

11. Ok, here's what you do. You ask the school to have the Psychologist

or School Social Worker or Counselor observe your son using timed interval observations. Basically that means they compare your son's on task/off task behaviors in several areas to children chosen at random. They will also zero in times, events, etc. when he is most on or off task. Ok. Then, you take that info. to your family Dr. in combination with how well he follows your directions at home. Is he weaker in some academic areas than in others? Are those the settings in which he cuts up the most? Do you have to ask him to do things over and over again without a reasonable cause? Is he an attention seeker with you? With peers? Does he disrupt family events for undue cause? How about mood swings? Does he have friends, seem to struggle with friendships, etc...Does he seem to need more high activity interests...More structure...more time to complete assignments...impulsive in more situations than not...

Some of your son's problems may have been manageable in younger grades but now pose a bigger problem b/c a longer attention span is expected come MS/HS.

Your son is too old for corporal punishment. He is not too old for a behavior plan that supports his ability to make good choices and dissuades him from the bad stuff.

[Seeking Serenity]

13. Fascinating.

I'll check that out. Thanks.

:hi:

[MichiganVote]

14. You're very welcome. Age, hormones and new social settings

may be all or some of the cause of your son's issues. Don't assume ADD/ADHD w/o ruling out some of these things. Once these things are ruled out---THEN---look at ADD/ADHD.

Its not the end of the world if ADD/ADHD is the predominant feature. Better he should get things together now, than in HS when credits for graduation count.

Good luck!

[Seeking Serenity]

12. As a humorous aside . . .

I have to get the Boy a poster board for his group's assignment on Black History Month to profile a famous AA. DH was lobbying hard for his group to choose someone like Clarence Thomas or Thomas Sowell.

They ended up choosing Rosa Parks.

:-)

[BlueIris]

15. You will shortly be receiving a PM. nt

[breakaleg]

16. If he's had these issues for all this time then he's self esteem has likely taken a huge hit.

I like the idea of enrolling him in something - sports, art, whatever - that he enjoys until you find something he excels at. I think that would change his outlook on life.

There have been many great suggestions in this thread. If nothing else, that should give you hope that there are plenty of things you can do to handle this.

[Seeking Serenity]

17. Thanks to everyone!

:grouphug:

[Midlodemocrat]

18. The punishments aren't working and here's why.

I would strongly suspect ADD or ADID or ADHD based on what you have stated. Your child *wants* to please you by 1. being quiet in class, 2. following directions, et al, but he doesn't have the capability right now to do that because of focus issues.

Let's put it this way. If you told me I would never be able to see my children again unless I vaulted over my house, my desire would be almost superhuman. But, my ability to follow through on that would be non existent.

See what I mean? I think he's got impulsivity issues. No biggie. Once it's diagnosed, you can address it.

[noamnety]

19. I'd get rid of the tv and computer altogether

not as punishment, but because they aren't conducive to developing longer attention spans - they do the opposite. think of it as a lifestyle choice, not a punishment.

I'd get him involved in volunteer work of some sort - something that forces him to focus on something other than the superficial, and other than himself. (Based on no scientific evidence) I think ADD is somewhat brought on by American culture, which is focused on the superficial. People don't have the privilege of being ADD when they are fighting for survival.

And also, I'd look at his diet - if he's drinking soda or juice, or eating junk food, I'd get rid of that and go for something without refined sugars and preservatives. If it comes in a cellophane wrapper or has articifical coloring, don't eat it. There have been some pretty good studies showing that behavior in schools - and prisons - dramatically improves when the meals served shift from processed junk to organic foods. http://www.odemagazine.com/article.php?aID=4143

[hatredisnotavalue]

20. Football

football, football, football. Boys need it. Trust me I know.

[Zookeeper]

21. Wow. Neither of my sons are football types at all....

Especially the one with ADD. They don't have the slightest interest in football, and very little interest in any other sport. :shrug:

[hippywife]

22. Take in a

very pretty female foreign exchange student who gets straight A's. My sister did when my nephew was about the age your son is now (not for that reason, obviously! LOL) and you should have seen the change in that kid! He did so much better in school when he saw that this gorgeous girl could get A's standing on her head.

[coffeenap]

23. Would he happen to be unusually bright? If so, it might mean he

is processing in a different way or at a different rate than those around him.