Top Chef - WTF???!!!! *spoilers*

[LynneSin]

First, I think it should have been Sam and Ilan - they have been consistantly the two best chefs throughout the season.

But then again I'm glad Sam was sent home - after he and Ilan convinced Elia to rat out Marcel at the judges table, Sam stood back and said absolutely nothing to help defend Elia. At least Ilan made an attempt to back her up.

And what the hell was with Marcel's chemistry kit? I didn't realize this was "Top Biochemist"

[jakefrep]

1. I can't believe that douche Marcel survived...

...methinks the judges were "influenced" by the producers on that call. I was sort of shocked to hear Chef Tom say "we don't care what goes on in the kitchen, we're judging you based on food" the week after they tossed Cliff for headlocking Marcel.

[LynneSin]

2. But Cliff attacked Marcel even if Cliff thought it was just in jest

That's like violation #1 for any reality TV show - you can't attack another person or you're sent home. Marcel may be a weasel but he's non-violent in his weaselly ways

[LostinVA]

3. IRL, Cliff would have been arrested for that "stunt"

He totally deserved to be tossed.

[shugah]

6. it was stupid of cliff ... but

what about marcel weasel talking about how he accidentally, intentionally tackled elia at the beach? same thing, isn't it?

[GoneOffShore]

7. He's non-violent when it suits him

Otherwise he's a passive-aggressive little shit.

And as an amateur cook and general restaurant freak, I personally think his food is more than a little 'forced'.

[Debi]

26. OMG - I should read the posts before I go off half-cocked

That's exactly what I said. But I'm not talking about Cliff - that bordered on physical assault - I'm talking about the two that shaved their heads, the judges went off on them for doing it because they were supposed to be seen as leaders. I guess leaders don't shave their heads :shrug:

[bullwinkle428]

4. What utter junior high-school bullshit that was at the judges' table!

"Ummm...we think that...ummm...some people..." Christ almighty!! Sam really showed himself to be a total sleazeball, using Elia to do his dirty work in trying to deliver some pathetic knockout blow to Marcel. A shame that he felt he had to lower himself that way, along with his conduct in the previous episode, as he really was the most consistently talented chef over the course of the season. No pass from me for Elia either; she claimed to be his only friend, but claimed it was because she didn't see him as a threat in the first place. In other words, she couldn't recognize his skills as a chef.

As far as the use of xanthan gum, it's simply a sugar that's cultured with bacteria. Chemistry is used to help produce things like cheese and yogurt, so I didn't really think there was anything over the top about Marcel's use of it in the challenge...

[bicentennial_baby]

19. That was Ilan that goaded her into saying something

not Sam

[bullwinkle428]

40. Yes, you're right about Ilan nudging her when they were in front

of the judges, but they showed that little discussion amongst the three, where they were sitting at a table before being called to the judges table. I think that both Sam and Ilan were trying to convince her to make a statement once they were called back. Sam and Ilan both seemed to view her as quite impressionable, and figured she could "solve the Marcel problem" and allow them to smoothly proceed to the final two...at least that's how I perceived it! :hi:

[bicentennial_baby]

46. Gotcha...

I agree with your observations... :hi:

[seemunkee]

5. I no longer care who wins

I was hoping for Sam and Elia to be in the final. I was pretty shocked at Elia trying to bounce Marcel for being his usual self. I thought she would be above that.
Tom's comment about Sam not cooking anything was bullshit. There's more to cooking than fire.

[DixieBlue]

13. I was pulling for Sam and Elia as well ...

I'm so tired of the whole Ilan/Marcel thing. I think they've both had awful behavior all season.

I really don't know if I'm going to watch next week's finish.

I agree the not cooking thing was bullshit as far as Sam goes. Tom's had a hair up his ass about Sam for a while; I don't really understand. Of course, I also think Sam's dreamy, so I was extra steamed.

[philosophie_en_rose]

8. All season long, I've wanted Elia to win.

She seemed creative and (compared to the yahoos on this season) mature, but now I'm very glad to see her go.

Go . . . Marcel?

:shrug:


More like: Boo Ilan.

[MissMillie]

9. Well, I guess we have to cheer for Ilan

Marcel IS an ass. And he has made the same thing over and over and over again. Ilan is more creative. Hell, Elia was more creative.

As for the biochemist stuff. When Morimoto got beat by a style similar to this biochemist stuff this past weekend, it really made me take notice. I mean, Morimoto is THE MAN!

[xchrom]

10. my guy marcel made it through!

and in fine, fine style.

he was the one who understood the challenge the best -- and in those terms -- knocked it out of the park.

he also demonstrates the best modern understanding of a broad range of skills required to BE a top chef.

whether he wins the last challenge -- who knows -- he's made his point.

[jakefrep]

61. Only because he's a telegenic prick...

...not because he's a noteworthy cook.

[GoneOffShore]

11. I think Colicchio is

enamored of that El Bulli style of 'cooking' that Marcel embraces.

I haven't eaten Adria's food, but at this point, even if I could get (and afford!!) a reservation there, I doubt that I would. Although I enjoy "Haute Cuisine" I want food that tastes and looks like food, not a science experiment or a Mondrian painting. As Alain Senderens chef/owner of Lucas-Carton, said when he gave up his 3 Michelin stars in 2005, "After all, it's just grub" (or the French equivalent).

[bicentennial_baby]

12. You'd never get a reservation...And either would I

I read the other day that they have, 800, I think, reservations a year...And the waiting list is 3000 people long, consistently.. :wow:

[sir_captain]

56. I somehow managed to lie, cheat and steal

(or just get really lucky) my way into a reservation for this July. I am extremely excited.

[bicentennial_baby]

67. Holy crap!

:wow:

We demand a review! :bounce:

[sir_captain]

69. I'll try to take pictures

if they let me. I can't wait!

[bicentennial_baby]

70. I can imagine!

I'm still in shock that you got a reservation :o

[Shakespeare]

71. They'll let you; have you ever seen any of the threads on eGullet?

Here's just one:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=88797

[sir_captain]

102. Yeah, I've seen those

I just want to make sure they really don't mind, though. I can see how it could be irritating to the other patrons. But I'll do my best.

[Shakespeare]

24. Having read Colicchio's blog, I don't think he is at all.

He talks specifically about that (check for the blog post titled "molecular gast-snobbery").

[GoneOffShore]

47. Thanks -

I haven't read his blog, I just got that impression from watching him and from eating at Craft. I know that Colicchio and Danny Meyer parted ways. Though I liked his food when he was at Gramercy Park. I don't think I'd like to work the line under him.

[Ramsey]

84. Marcel works at Joel Robuchon

I believe. I ate at his restaurant in Las Vegas and it was the most amazing meal of my life. If Marcel cooks there, I'll bet his food is great.

[PVnRT]

14. Is Marcel the bitchy one who stabs everyone else in the back?

I watched a few episodes and wanted to strangle that little shit.

[MissMillie]

15. "but I didn't need a lot of leadership..."

:wtf:

[Critters2]

17. That's Marcel. I knew he'd be in the final, because the biggest asshole

always makes it to the end. I fear he might win. Apparently, working well with others is not a necessary asset to being a chef. Who knew?

[Debi]

33. Yeah, because being head of the kitchen doesn't entail working

well with the staff....Rocco proved that!!

[fishwax]

54. the problem is, ilan isn't much better

he likes to stir things up and then get others to do his dirty work. Like when Cliff was holding Marcel down, you could hear Ilan pleading with Sam to shave Marcel's head, as if he didn't have the guts to do it himself. I liked Ilan at the beginning, and couldn't stand Marcel, but now I'm not terribly enthusiastic about either.

[KurtNYC]

20. He stabs them in the FRONT with his superior attitude

then they stab HIM in the back.

Part of his strategy seems to be to throw others off their game by getting them super pissed off at him. It is common in sports (pick-up basketball, tennis, etc.) to know who plays better when pissed off versus who makes more mistakes in that state of mind.

Last night they accused him of cheating and then offered NOTHING to back that up. Hence Colluccio's reaction. It is hard to tell how annoying Marcel would be to work with but that hair is straight out of anime.

[trackfan]

16. It almost seemd as if the judges were told to pick one from group A and one from group B

Group A being Sam and Ilan. B Elia and Marcel. They seemed to make reference, at one point, to having come to a decision between Elia and Marcel, and then having to decide between the other two. Our theory for some time has been that the producers wanted Marcel in the final in order to make for more interesting television. Ilan is probably the winner, because there's no way they would have someone who is perceived by most as a prick
- and, whatever he may be like in real life, Marcel is certainly portrayed as such for the purposes of the show - win.

[Godhumor]

18. It wasn't a Group A/Group B sitaution, plus my own thoughts

The editing was a little...odd, but the idea was that they definitely decided that Marcle had the strongest dishes of the four and that Elia had the weakest (Sam spoke in his interview that the other chefs started getting really worried when the guests were giving phenomenal compliments to Marcel.), so their decisions for those 2 were already decided. It then came down to whether Ilan or Sam would join Marcel, as only one other could go.

I have to say I'm pulling for Marcel in the finale, and, honestly, I don't think Ilan has much of a real shot. People give Marcel crap about his use of foams, but Ilan is a thoroughly one-note chef. He can only cook Spanish dishes--when he tries anything else it is a complete disaster (Chocolate chicken livers, yum!)--and puts saffron into damn near every single thing he makes. Unless Marcel serves undercooked chicken again, I don't see Ilan pulling off a win.

I have to say that my opinion of Elia has changed dramatically in the past 2 episodes, and I was thrilled to see her kicked out. She had two emotional blow ups this season where she wanted to quit, not good behavior for a top chef, and her attempt to belittle Marcel to save her own neck was ridiculous. He moved a pot off cold burner which is standard in tight kitchens--there is no saving space if you're not using it, so I thought her attempt to portray that incident as cheating was horrendous. Of course, she can't just leave well enough alone...in her CHOW interview she goes further and accuses Marcel of hiring hackers to raise his ratings in tv.com polls.

I hope season 3 focuses more on the competition ala season 1 and allows drama to unfold via the food. I really don't think I can watch a season where the food becomes completely secondary, which is what will happen if the producers decide to use this season as a show model.

Well, I'll watch next week, and I hope to see Marcel get the money. On that note, did anyone see that a woman assaulted him in Las Vegas with a bottle? He ended up requiring 30 stitches.

[xchrom]

35. it's a ''hate'' that has caught fire re: marcel -- and

it's not based in reality --

marcel has always backed himself up -- and stayed steady through the competition.

he was threatened with violence from frank -- and sam simply showed his real character when he was assaulted by cliff.

and elia? well -- time does tell doesn't it.

[Ramsey]

85. On Project Runway

Jeffrey, the one every one hated, was the winner. Because he was actually the best designer!

[Parche]

21. What Show?

Lettuce just say that either one of the chefs will win, if you carrot all.
Both chefs have a steak in their bid to become the top, they need to turnip the heat on
each other, or at least meat half way.
They also need to be polite, so peas and thankyou is in order here.
Ice cream at the TV every time they make a blunder, of course they do want to
make it big in the industry and make alot of dough, its up to them whether they
take it farther, and then there is Sam and Ilan, they made quite a pear, but alas
Sam wasnt up to the challenge so the judge beet him to the punch and sent him packing.
As Marcel says, "Bean there done that"

What show are we talking about???

[Suich]

41. Very good!!!

You could write this with little pictures of the food!!!

:hi:

[Shakespeare]

22. Marcel thinks he's Ferran Adria, which is both pathetic and annoying.

If you read Colicchio's blog, he explains it beautifully. Don't even go NEAR the molecular gastronomy stuff (or molecular gast-snobbery, as he calls is) until you're proficient in the basics and classics. Marcel needs to get the hell over himself and actually learn how to be a proper chef. THEN he can worry about the fancy stuff.

[bicentennial_baby]

23. Hehe....remember

when his excuse for f'ing up was b/c he didn't have a Thermal Immersion Circulator? :rofl:

:hi:

and for you:

[Shakespeare]

28. oooh, I love that picture...

Yeah, I do remember that. He's just such an insufferable little prick (forget Cliff; if I'd been on the show, *I* probably would've been kicked off for assaulting him), and while he's been able to pull off some impressive dishes, I do NOT think he's the most talented on the show, and clearly has much to learn.

I keep waiting (very, very impatiently) for the Travel Channel to re-run Bourdain's "Deconstructing Ferran Adria" episode. That was one of the most fascinating shows about food I've ever seen.

:hi:

[bicentennial_baby]

30. I haven't seen that one!

Is it an episode of "No Reservations", or something different? :o

No, definitely not the most talented, and very green. I was really hoping it would be Sam....sigh.

:hi:

[Shakespeare]

32. Yep--and the whole episode is about Adria.

Tony starts out a little skeptical and cynical, and is pretty much ready to start a new religion to Adria by the time it's over.

At least Sam won the viewer's choice, which came with a nice chunk of cash!

[Ramsey]

86. Drool!

I love Tony! I saw him at Le Bernadin in NYC one night, and again at a book signing in San Francisco. He looks exactly the same in real life! Love his books and his show about the recent invasion of Lebanon was the best documentary on the subject- very raw and honest.

[lies and propaganda]

29. how much did you want to barf at Marcel's 'gastronomical society'

I couldnt imagine three dudes like him in one room.

[Shakespeare]

31. I laughed my ass off, and thought....

..."what a presumptuous little boy."

[Debi]

25. Odd that the comment "I don't care what happens in the kitchen"

was stated. Last week the 'head shavers' were admonished for their behavior b/c they were supposed to be 'leaders' in the kitchen. This week Marcel being an asshole in the kitchen doesn't matter because he makes great 'foam' What a jerk :puke:

[Godhumor]

34. Difference between not liking someone's behavior in the kitchen

And physically assaulting someone--they're not the same thing. Cliff broke the rules and he got booted for it. The judges waited for the contestants to explain how Marcel broke the rules and they could not, ergo "we don't care."

Honestly, the final four crop was not all that great, including Sam. It'll be itneresting to see how many dishes Ilan dumps saffron into on the finale, as that's his way of hiding his shortcomings.

I really only seeing Marcel losing this one on one if he goes way too weird or screws up ala his undercooked chicken, as Ilan has no depth and a very lmited range--I am certain the judges are going to call him on it if he tries to cook everything Spanish-style again.

[Debi]

37. I wasn't talking about Cliff

Not to belabor the point. Cliff should have been kicked off because of what he did.

I'm talking Ilan and Elia - THEY were admonished for shaving their heads because that wasn't something a leader would do (I don't get that) and the Top Chef is to be a leader. If the judges don't care what happens in the kitchen why should they care what happens outside of the kitchen? (bad behavior, not illegal, shouldn't have any effect on the outcome). Seems a double standard was set for Marcel allowing him to be a jerk but not allowing the others to be silly.

[Godhumor]

59. Personal opinion is there's still a difference

Colicchio in his blog talked about the first time producers of the show interfered with a judges' decision on the Cliff gone wild episode. He wanted to send everyone home for their role in the Marcel incident and declare him the default winner--of course, Bravo said no.

The reasons I think that's a bit different than Marcel's kitchen behavior:

First, for whatever odd reason, Bravo edited the footage from the apartment so it appeared that Elia and Ilan shaved their heads before the assault on Marcel--in reality, they tried to attack him first then decided, "well, we got the clippers let's shave our own" (Elia confirmed this in her CHOW interview, I believe. This made the assault on Marcel a premeditated act instead of a prank gone wrong, and all four of the offenders conspired together to do so.

Marcel's behavior in the kitchen is rather bitchy, but he has never interfered with the cooking or preparation of someone else's cuisine, nor had he ever started a full-on confrontation with another contestant (Sam in his post-show interview stated that Marcel never was in your face; he made snippy little remarks that just built up until people got very annoyed with him). Honestly, he broke no kitchen rules in regards to personal space and equipment (From the last episode, it is considered normal to move an implement from a cold burner if the burner is needed, for example), and it was simply his personality that got on people's nerves, and I think that's where the judges pretty much said, "We don't care." They gave Elia time to voice how Marcel cheated, and she couldn't come up with anything beyond his attitude.

Everyone knew Marcel's food was the best received of the night from customer reactions (via Sam's exit interview), and the accusation smacked of a last ditch effort to eliminate "the jerk". When it was clear that no one could support Elia's allegations the judges pretty much told her to shut it.

I don't know, I see a clear distinction between holding people accountable for the apartment incident and trying to hold Marcel accountable for being a jerk. I do understand where some would think of it as two-face behavior, though.

[lies and propaganda]

27. i was so grossed out by last nights episode...

I too, wanted Sam and Ilan.
Couldnt believe Ilan got Elia to do his dirty work and go out looking like a tool.
Xantham Gum? that makes me freaking puke. Watching him cook yesterday made me ill. thank God he didnt forget the foam!

[xchrom]

36. how old was ferran adria when he started influencing the world of food --

and how old is marcel?

marcel is starting out in the world of cuisine and he'll continue to grow.

anthony boudain gave marcel props for understanding what it meant for undertaking the holiday challenge -- the ONLY ONE out of all of them to get it -- according to bourdain.

who is apparently gos here at du.

[Shakespeare]

38. Bourdain also referred to him as "Astroboy" and...

...has made abundantly clear in the past that he hates unnecessary pretension in a chef. Adria worked for YEARS as the head chef at el Bulli before plunging into his experimental cuisine (he's 44 now, has been a chef for approximately 20 years; the experimental stuff came much later in his career). Marcel simply lacks the experience and knowledge to make that leap right now, and he's too immature and too full of himself to realize that. He wants to be a rocket scientist before he's even grasped basic algebra.

Bourdain also complimented Elia and emphasized the importanc of knowing when and how to produce GOOD, satisfying food. He also loved the stuffed potato, so I don't think you want to get too carried away on Bourdain's praise of Marcel....

[xchrom]

48. he may hate pretension in a chef -- but he made

no such allusion to astro boy -- and you know it.

you are making a connection where none exists.

there is a connection though that he said marcel was the only chef in that challenge to get what the challenge was about -- now that IS aconnection between astro boy and bourdain -- where otherwise none exists --

except in your fantasies.

[Shakespeare]

49. Excuse me? HE CALLED HIM ASTROBOY.

I've got it on DVR--and bi_baby and others will attest to that, because we DISCUSSED it down in the cooking forum.

Your hostility is really pretty bizarre. Bourdain attempted to be more gracious than he otherwise might be to all of the chefs (if you've watched him often, and then watched him on Top Chef, he was clearly going out of his way not to be too harsh). He in NO way held Marcel in some lofty esteem far above the others--he liked Marcel's, thought he maybe had a slight edge over some of the others, but he also liked Elia's (she, too, was considered a "winner" in that challenge), and even like Michael's bizarre concoctions. He was in NO way overwhelmingly impressed by Marcel.

You like Marcel; I get that. I don't. Just because I choose to disagree with you doesn't mean I'm wrong (or that you're wrong). I made my point, you made yours--but you threw in some pretty weird hostility and Marcel-worship.

[xchrom]

51. and what doers calling him astro boy have to do with his cooking?

and your fabulist dislike of astro boy is a tad hysterical.

you're the one making a connection ala bourdain, adria and marcel -- which is unwarranted because there isn't one.

the food that marcel makes -- styles -- is widespread far beyond it's innovator.

marcel is young and has the right to try his chops out at the food he wants -- you are making it up that it's pretentious.

and that's plain wrong.

[Shakespeare]

52. Fabulist? What's "fabulist?" And you're the one who brought up Bourdain, not me.

Are you accusing me of being a liar by the use of that word? If so, you're not only wrong, you're using the word improperly.

The connection I make with Adria--and it's quite intentional--is that Marcel clearly aspires to be like Adria (the foams, the molecular gastronomy--he gets that from Adria, you know). Now, I happen to be fascinated by Adria, and would love the opportunity to eat at el Bulli. However, where Marcel goes wrong (and this is a mistake of both youth and ego on his part) is that he wants to leap right into the kind of experimental cuisine Adria has mastered before he has a strong foundation in the basics. And you cannot do what Adria does WITHOUT a strong foundation in the basics.

And no, I'm not making it up that it's pretentious. If it's done well, and done in the correct spirit, it can be revelatory. But what Marcel is doing is little more than culinary masturbation, which completely misses the point of good cuisine. I can give you page numbers in more than one of Bourdain's books that makes such a reference to that kind of cooking, as well as a link to a blog post Colicchio devotes to the subject.

Nothing about ANY of my posts on Marcel is in any way "hysterical." I say I don't like him, say WHY I don't like him, and then go one step further to demonstrate the facts behind why I don't like him.

[xchrom]

53. adria is not the only one who uses foams -- they are wide spread now.

and if you are going to become adept at anything -- you have to do, use, experience -- whatever the act of creating what ever it is.

marcel is not being pretentious for wanting to become adept at using whatever he wants to -- and it makes you pulling arguments that border on falsehoods to say other wise.

and you have no idea if it's culinary masturbation -- because you aren't eating the product of his masturbation -- jesus -- your hysteria is off the wall here.

i've read the blogs because i follow the shows -- and you don't have to quote bourdain re: ''that kind of cooking'' -- because i've read bourdain myself -- and there is NO connection -- again NONE -- foams aren't the only product that marcel produced -- he produced plenty of others and for the most part was always steady in the competition -- and again you know it.

foams are used world wide now -- world wide.

you have to make up this fantastical aura of marcel's supposed pretentiousness that doesn't exist -- he's a chef trying like anybody else to perfect -- to become the best he can -- you can't dis him on his work -- because he is in the final two.

your own expert had to give him props -- and astro boy is just name calling.

[Shakespeare]

55. No, I base my opinion on what I've seen on the show.

And I see somebody who is petulant, egotistical and very, VERY immature. Foam's aren't "widespread;" yes, more people than Adria do them now, but Adria is a legend for pioneering their use. Perhaps you should read up on that.

Marcel has used foam in almost every single show (I think there was ONE show where he didn't); there's a reason it became a running joke among the JUDGES, you know.

Again, I'm not being hysterical at all, but you're certainly agitated.

I never said Marcel wasn't good--but he's letting his own foibles interfere with his potential. And I find his personality completely off-putting. And I absolutely do not think he is the most talented of all the people on the show; Sam probably gets the nod on that.

[xchrom]

58. and i see an hysterical damn near lynch mob mentality

over some one in a competition.

some one who set out and used what he thought were his best assets for winning.

so who's the snob here?

you want to deny him his skills -- what he feels comfortable with or what will give him an edge -- because from your living room you're an expert on what he was putting out.

yeah the judges poked some fun -- there was some thing there in marcel and he held his own.
and that's fine -- but the hate and hysteria that his personality has generated is completely nuts.

there was never any thing that grating about him -- read harold's blog on the cliff incident -- except that it caught on like wildfire -- and it's nuts. really crazy.

and it's marcel who's in the final two -- and that pretty much justifies his approach to this competition.

[Shakespeare]

62. A lynch mob? Where the fuck do you get that?

I just don't like the guy, and you accuse me of having a lynch mob mentality? Hyperbole much?

I want to deny him nothing--I've not said he's untalented, just that he's VERY green and a tad overreaching. Are you incapable of seeing things in shades of gray? He needs to grow up and master the basics; acknowledging that does not diminish the skills he HAS already established. Calm the fuck down.

I don't "hate" Marcel, so kindly stop tagging me with that bullshit. Finding someone's personality off-putting does NOT mean you hate them.

"There was never anything grating to him." Maybe to YOU, but to me and many others, there certainly is, and we're entitled to that opinion without having the word "hater" flung at us.

[xchrom]

73. let's review --

Marcel needs to get the hell over himself and actually learn how to be a proper chef. THEN he can worry about the fancy stuff.
post #22
the guy who needs to get over himself makes it to the final two.

.."what a presumptuous little boy."
post #31
here you just emasculate him -- off with his balls!

And I see somebody who is petulant, egotistical and very, VERY immature.
post #55
and here you just use a shotgun to show your contempt and disdain; for the guy who is in the final two.

talk about unable to see things in shades of gray and using hyperbole -- marcel -- aka astro boy -- for all of your derisive bullshit -- nutty bullshit -- made it to the final two.

he stuck to his guns -- he wasn't a pretend adria -- he was himself -- using what he thought gave him his best shot.

and he succeeded.

it's a competition -- he came to play and play he did.

for all that reality shows reveal a new low in american culture -- project runway, top chef and top designer are peopled by contestants that have to come up with the goods.
they have to work hard -- and push ahead by what they create with their minds and their two hands.

these aren't actors playing a role and going home.

marcel was assaulted -- apparently twice -- because of a frenzy that just took off.

as far as i'm concerned -- you demonstrated that frenzy.

[Shakespeare]

74. jesus fucking christ.

Yes, I have an opinion. OH MY GOD! Alert the media.

Calling him on his immaturity is not emasculating him. It's stating something that far more people than just I have observed.

I don't like him. I've said that repeatedly. I DO NOT LIKE HIM. I find him an off-putting little jerk. Wanna parse that one for me, too? That does not, however, make me a "hater," or "hysterical." It simply means I have an opinion, which I have backed up quite soundly with reasons why I feel the way I do.

I've also not been black-and-white with him; yes, I've said he DOES have talent. But yeah, he's DEFINITELY a "pretend Adria." One day he might be as good as or even better than Adria--but he's got to earn his chops first, and he hasn't done that yet.

For you to brand me as hysterical simply because I disagree with you says far, far more about you than it does about whatever you think of me.

I stand by my opinion, and everything else I've had to say on topic.

[xchrom]

77. who made you the grand diva doyenne of culinary taste?

you've been positively hateful in your assessment of him for jesus fucking christ's sake.

and how much more black and white do you wanna get -- you completely dis him from the comfort of your goddamned taste throne -- and then expect those who find the results of the competition to be right not to say anything?

puh-leez -- get real -- i've shown you your hateful comments -- and you still claim not to be acting like a hater?

yes -- that's hysterical.

[Shakespeare]

79. Who made you the doyenne of lounge opinions?

Seriously, I am stunned at how angry you are that I don't like Marcel. Check right below our exchange for a more sane discussion of things. You could have opted for that route, but chose not to.

I NEVER said differing opinions were not allowed (and in fact have rather enjoyed the debate with other posters on this thread). Where YOU have differed is in your slavish defense of Marcel. What you continue to fail to grasp is that I've not condemned Marcel's skills; I've simply said that he's overreaching at this point in his career when he forsakes a basic foundation of classic skills for the wizardry of someone like Adria. Colicchio has even said as much in his blog, although he didn't name Marcel specifically.

My comments are not "hateful." They're blunt and strong, but there's nothing hateful in them. That you will tolerate NO negative opinion of Marcel is your own damn problem.

[xchrom]

80. let's review -- AGAIN --

Marcel needs to get the hell over himself and actually learn how to be a proper chef. THEN he can worry about the fancy stuff.
post #22
the guy who needs to get over himself makes it to the final two.

.."what a presumptuous little boy."
post #31
here you just emasculate him -- off with his balls!

And I see somebody who is petulant, egotistical and very, VERY immature.
post #55
and here you just use a shotgun to show your contempt and disdain; for the guy who is in the final two.

you completely discredit marcel using a childish psychological review of him -- and accuse him of some kind of attitude on his part.

you don't just offer a strong opinion -- you speak as if you have some practiced acquaintanceship with the techniques{whether they're ilan's, marcel's or sam's} involved here.
you pretend to an expertise that you don't possess -- unless you are working as an executive chef{sam really is an executive chef at a new york restaurant and still got his ass kicked by astro boy} at a world class restaurant with more than a passing acquaintance of what it takes to pull off something like being in a food competition.
because that's how strong your critique has come off.

and more -- i shouldn't have as strong an opinion as the ones you've presented re: marcel?

talk about The Lounge Queen....

[Shakespeare]

81. You know, I can have any damn opinion I want.

And you continue to ignore that I haven't condemned Marcel's skills, only the way his ego and immaturity get in the way of those skills. If I were the only person who found Marcel repellant, you MIGHT have a point. But he's pretty widely despised (almost 80 percent of viewers wanted him eliminated this week), so here's the news flash for you: it's not just me.

I'll also point out that your fervent Marcel-worship is also based merely on what you've seen on TV, so be careful with those categorical judgments.

Also, Sam didn't "get his ass kicked" by Marcel. That last competition was extremely close, and Sam was dismissed only reluctantly.

What I find funny is that you just can't deal with the negative opinion. You like Marcel; that's fine with me. But it just bugs the living shit out of you that I had anything bad to say about your boy.

[Rabrrrrrr]

82. OMG! This flamewar was fucking FABULOUS! ROFL!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Thank you both.

I'm with you, Shakespeare - Marcel needs a serious injection of maturity. I think he has great skill, but he seems ungrounded in the foundations - like a guy who can play guitar really fast and cleanly, but doesn't quite really know why the notes work the way they do, or where the music comes from.

If he would grow up, I think he would be my favorite. I was a fan of Elia, and was very sad she got the boot - but, she earned the boot, so there you go.

Ah, Marcel - you are like the student who is the genius but who won't allow the teacher to break his ego and remake him from the bottom up, and so you languish, never realizing your full potential, and therefore a genius you do not become.

[Shakespeare]

95. Always happy to entertain you, you big bastard.

And I mean that in the best of ways. :*

[Shakespeare]

98. Oh, one more theory about Marcel.

The boy needs to get laid IMMEDIATELY. There is no way a cook who's a virgin can go from good to great without having experienced that.

[xchrom]

90. you come roaring out like grendel -- gonna eat marcel alive --

or who ever it is that doesn't live up to your self appointed expertise -- and you don't like the reaction you get.

oh boo-hoo --

you accuse marcel of having to learn how to become a proper chef.
that's criticizing his abilities and talents --


now you cry that you can't have an opinion -- if you're gonna put crap out there like what you've presented here -- somebody is going to call you on it.

in this case it's me.

p.s. and he did kick sam's ass.

[Shakespeare]

92. Wow. You have issues.

Yeah, I'm pretty much done with this. I've offered my opinion and backed it up nicely. Sorry that bothers you so much.

I never cried, and yeah, my opinion's been pretty intact all the way through, so I'm not sure exactly what part of your ass you pulled that out of.

You're the only one whining at me. Even posters who LIKE Marcel at least concede that he's overreaching.

Toodles!

[xchrom]

93. you didn't back your opinion up and that's what i

pointed out time and again.

you were an amateur butcher -- doing a bad job of hacking away at some one who did his best.

[Shakespeare]

94. Uh, yeah. I did.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You are odd.

[xchrom]

96. in your vivid imagination you did.

do you know where marcel works?

he is a master cook at the flagship restaurant of joel robuchon's -- ilan is a line cook for mario batali.

marcel was an assistant at the cia -- ilan was student.

you stretched your mind around really good chefs giving another really good chef a ribbing re: foams -- but marcel had all the chops to make it to the final two -- and you could do is whine about his personality -- boy -- that's plenty school ground for ya.

and a little nutty since you haven't been in school for a long, long time.

[Shakespeare]

97. Uh, other posters agree with me.

Now, what's nutty again?

Yes, I know where he works. Let me clarify this for you one more time, in small words (so you can keep up). I'm not an Ilan fan. I didn't particularly care for any of the chefs this season, and found them to be not nearly as good as last season's chefs. So I find it rather humorous that you continue to slam Ilan, when I don't care about him in the slightest. Keep slammin'. I've stated clearly what I don't like about Marcel, and (here's the part where you might want to pay extra-extra-close attention) also said he's quite talented. I also said that his ego and immaturity are getting in the way of that talent. Now, it's clear that shades of gray are a difficult area for you, but pause for just a moment and let that soak in.

OH--and how, pray tell, do you know when I was in school? This is getting fun. Keep bringin' it.

[xchrom]

99. let's review part three

''Marcel needs to get the hell over himself and actually learn how to be a proper chef. THEN he can worry about the fancy stuff.''

these are your words -- about someone who works here:http://www.gayot.com/restaurantpages/LasVegasInfo.php?tag=LVRES050910-15&code=LV

you offered weak left handed compliments -- like you can cook and know as much about food as marcel -- to him later on.

you made disparaging comments about his personality and it's connection to his cooking.
how did he get to be an aid at the cia?

and now here's the crowning cap of stupidity''The boy needs to get laid IMMEDIATELY. There is no way a cook who's a virgin can go from good to great without having experienced that.''

that's right up there with sam and ilan talking about marcels masturbatory habits -- oh i believe you made a reference to that as well.

not only childish -- but stupidly so.


now you don't particularly care for any of the chefs -- again i suppose from your vast experience --

why am i not surprised:eyes:

[Shakespeare]

101. Yes. Those were my EXACT words about someone who works there.

Try to get your mind around it. Seriously.

My arguments weren't weak, and my skills are not part of this discussion, nor should they be. If I'm on Top Chef in the future, then have at it.

Lots of asshats make it through CIA. Where on earth did you get the idea that someone achieves deity status if they're a TA at the CIA?

Try to deal with it. You'll feel much better.

[xchrom]

103. your arguments ARE weak --

they always were -- and obviously he knows his way around the technique better than you realized, eh?

oh asshats make it through lots of places, don't they?

try to deal with the fact that your hysterical hateful ranting about someone made you say stupid things.

[Godhumor]

63. Most of the chefs are playing to their favorite creations

Marcel has used foams 7 times this season, I believe. Out of those 7 one was used to make an avant guarde Thanksgiving dinner (appropriate use), one was used for the mixed cocktail drink where many of the contestants were using froth, and one was used in this past challenge where the contestants were allowed to really play to their strengths. Hell, the judges even said the use of the tomato foam was appropriate for the challenge.

Sam includes some sort of pickled dish almost every episode.

Ilan has used saffron on almost every single individual elimination challenge. Even the judges were commenting on Ilan's all Spanish menu as something he needs to break away from in the finale part I

Elia actually changed up her game quite a bit each episode with the two exceptions of ignoring the rules and going heavy on Mediterranean flavors.

I don't see Marcel's use of foam as outside the norm for this competition.

[Shakespeare]

64. Oh, sure, so that's why it became a running gag.

:eyes:

[Godhumor]

65. Foam just sticks out more than "herbing up"

He used foam 7 times, that is no where near every dish. Through the last episode that was 23 possible meals he could have made with foam and he came nowhere near that amount. It also became a running joke on the only episode where he decided to use foam in both the quickfire and the elimination challenge--neither of which worked well.

Ilan is as heavy-handed with the saffron as Marcel is with the foam, if not moreso, and he has also been taken to task for it by the judges for it--foam just happens to be more distinctive and weirder so it leaves an impression.

The judges even commented on how often Sam pickles in the last episode--each chef goes with what they enjoy and know, and, frankly, I can't hold it as a knock against Marcel for wanting to use what he enjoys.

[Shakespeare]

72. Of COURSE it sticks out more.

And I disagree that Sam and Ilan have used pickling and saffron to the extent that Marcel has used the foam. I'm not giving either of them a pass for overusing their own favorite flavors or techniques (why certain posters on this thread want to debate strictly as if things were black or white just astonishes me); but neither were joked about OR taken to task as much as Marcel was over his molecular gastronomy silliness.

Marcel has overused the foam thing, period. But what bothers me more is WHY he's done so; he's far more wrapped up in culinary pyrotechnics than he needs to be, especially at this rather tender stage of his career.

I've been far, far less impressed with this season's chefs as a whole, by the way--I think Sam probably has the most promise, with Ilan and Marcel at close second. The reason I focus on Marcel is that the very faults that make him so insufferable to be around--the ego and immaturity--manifest themselves in his cooking as well as his personality. To see somebody who does have Marcel's talent diminishing it through ego and immaturity is incredibly frustrating. I really do hope he outgrows that and becomes a fine chef. It's clearly what he aspires to, but he's got a lot of growing up and getting overhimself to do before that'll happen.

[Godhumor]

75. I hoenstly can't point to one person in the final four who should be the top chef

Actually, I'm not sure if anyone this season really waved the whole "Holy crap he/she is going to be great" flag the way Harold and LeeAnn did last year (not leaving out Tiffany or Dave, just those 2 stick out so much more).

Food-wise, I think that Sam was the most consistent out of the final four this past season with a lot of top 3 finishes--though his disasters have been rather epic (the toad in the hole and that cheesy watermelon he tried to pass off as dessert) in scope. I also think he's the most aware of how flavors can and should meld.

Out of the final 2 I think Marcel has a better chance of winning than Ilan for the simple fact that Ilan has not been in the profession long enough to progress past what he is asked to cook as a line cook. I think he'll look back in 3 or 4 years and wince at how he cooked (and acted) on the TV show, but he's simply not that great yet.

Marcel is just weird, his technique is weird, and his arrogant glee at what he does is rather off-putting. If the title of Top Chef, as it did last year, also goes to the person who inspires others to work with him, he shouldn't even be in the running. I will admit that I am pulling for Marcel in the final due to concerns outside of food--I absolutely can not stand Ilan as he is portrayed on the show (Though I reacted a lot more violently to Betty who drove me nuts, "cheated", could not plate to save her life, and managed to screw up flavor profiles on a consistent basis.). Ilan strikes me as someone who was bullied younger in life and is taking perverse joy in being able to return the favor on someone even smaller and dorkier than him. I am certain Ilan will mature , he's only 23 or 24 (I forget which at the moment) and hasn't even finished his culinary training within a professional kitchen. I am willing to bet that when he hits his mid30s we're going to see him again.

If I had to go back to the very beginning of the show and pick a contestant who I really thought could make some killer gourmet food I'd go with Emily--her TGIF disaster aside, everything I've read about her is that she's an absolute wonder in the kitchen.

[Shakespeare]

76. I agree with absolutely everything you've said.

Except I'm not pulling or Marcel to win. ;-)

I don't really care for Ilan that much, either--Sam was the one I thought should be up there. I also agree about Emily.

[Ramsey]

88. Emily should have made it much farther

At the beginning she seemed like one of the best chefs. Over-salting her TGIF food was a really stupid mistake. But really, Mike and Betty stayed much longer than Emily, and they were hacks compard to her.

[philosophie_en_rose]

100. The big surprise should be they kick out Marcel and Ilan.

And bring back Dave and Lee Ann.

:rofl:

[Ramsey]

87. Marcel inspired me

I made a similar verison of turkey roulade for the holidays!

[blitzen]

39. True "reality": Marcel attacked by Top Chef viewer (30 stiches)

I've been pulling for him from the start, but this vicious physical attack makes me really want him to win now.


http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/top_chef_2/2007_Jan_22_marcel_hit_ilan_friends

[Suich]

43. That's insane!

I can't tell when this happened...was it after the final episode (next week) or was it in the 2 months before they went to Hawaii?

:hi:

[blitzen]

44. I have the impression that it happened recently...in the past week or so

Colicchio and Sam mentioned it last night during the live webstream after the show

[Suich]

45. I hope somebody got arrested!

Reality shows do a lot of editing. I can't imagine disliking a contestant so much that I bust a bottle on their face! Oh well...

[LisaM]

42. I can't stand Elia

She was the one who chose seafood entries only for the heavy appetizer reception, and didn't turn a hair when someone commented on it. Since I'm allergic to seafood, I found this menu to be quite shocking. She should have been kicked off at that point. A lot of people have seafood allergies.

[Ekirh]

50. Figures my two least

Favs make it to the finals . . I was almost sure since I started watching Sam was a shoo.


And ahhh Elia. At one point I simply adored you.. and yet.. last night... I was glad to see you go . . what happened "sighed". To think Mia sacrificed herself so you can continue.

As much as I dislike Marcel . . I thought he was in fine form last night.. no problems with him going on.

But Dear God Marcel versus Ilan? feel the hate.. FEEL THE HATE!!!

Okay don't feel it.. it's kind of slimey and slippery.

[sir_captain]

57. Harold Dieterlie would wipe the floor with all of them

imo. I think he was far more talented than any of this year's contestants.

[MissMillie]

60. Yep

in fact I think any of the top 4 from last year would win against all of this season's contestants.

[Godhumor]

66. I definitely agree

The major contestants from this year are far too young, inexperienced, and immature to have the kind of credibility that Harold does--I really hope that Season 3 finds the producers getting some better established contestants, so we don't end up with 23 and 24 year olds with titles like "Assistant Room Service Chef" or "Line Cook" in the final 4 (I'm not knocking the youth, btw--I just want to see some people who have truly matured in their careers).

Oddly enough, one of the most distinguished people on this season's show was/is Marcel who is a master chef under one of the most well respected chefs in the entire world. Strange that.

[bicentennial_baby]

68. Bingo...

I long for the days of Harold, Stephen, Dave "I'm not your bitch, bitch", Tiffani, and LeAnn...sigh

[Ekirh]

78. You see this makes me sad

I keep hearing how good Top Chef 1 was. . but I didn't start watching until this season . . .

and I end up with an Ilan/Marcel final where I'm forced to cheer for Marcel . . . . (Although I still want to turn him upside down and use him as a mop . . not because I want to physically abuse him or anything.. I just think his hair would do wonders on my grandma's kitchen floor that's all)

God I was such an Elia fan at one point . . . . . then next thing you know.. I'm glad she's gone. . "sighs"

[Ramsey]

83. I find myself not caring about the results

Project Runway this is not!

I think the best 4 chefs made it to the final four, and who went home next I really didn't care.

The results seemed fair however. The challenge was to use authentic Hawaiian ingredients giving it your own special character and a nice presentation. Marcel did in fact seem to meet those criteria the best. I've eaten at Rubochon and believe me, the food is incredible. Given that Marcel works there, I'll bet his dishes are pretty damn good. And very pretty too.

I agreed with Ilan that his dish didn't look very pretty, but apparently it tasted good. It really seemed there was no substantial difference between Ilan and Sam's food, so who to boot was a little arbitrary.

I was surprised that Elia actually ratted on Marcel. I can't say they convinced me that Marcel was anything but inconsiderate. Cheating because he moved somebody's pot? That didn't fly. I was sorry to see her go, but she didn't meet that challenge as well as the others and that's what matters.

[Ekirh]

89. It seems what did Sam in

Was the fact one of his dishes didn't involve any cooking (I notice the judges didn't all agree on that point but still)

I don't like Marcel but I do agree he was probably the best in that challenge . . and heck in an interview somewhere Sam conceded he kept hearing from the people eating that Marcel's was the best.

I don't like Ilan either.. so of the two challengers I'm going with Marcel over all . .

[xchrom]

91. do you know which atelier

rubochon marcel works at?