Anybody get replacement windows recently? Tell me your story!

[CTyankee]

I have now obtained two estimates: one for $8500 and the other for $22,000. For 22 windows. I kid you not.

I freaking can't believe it. Idon'tknow what to believe, much less what to do. I am frantically looking through back copies of Consumer's Guide to find a recent article on what to look for, look out for, etc.

Please let me know what you did, how much it cost and what you got for your money. Spouse and I are just speechless.

[billyskank]

1. 22 windows? Wow! Do you live in a mansion?

I had the windows in my apartment replaced last year, five windows for £2300. PVCu framed double glazing all round. Not that that tells you much, I know...

[CTyankee]

2. Oh god no. But I have a colonial and there are lots of windows.

We have windows in our walk in closets. We can't NOT do some windows because from the street they will look weird.

This is an older house, built in 1941. Maybe they just like lots of windows then. Even my tiniest bedroom has two windows.

I must say everything is nice and bright in my house and that's great.

[jmowreader]

3. How large are the windows?

The $8500 estimate comes to $386.36 per window.

The $22,000 estimate is $1000/window, as you've figured out by now.

The high estimate sounds like Andersens, Marvins, Pellas or some other high-end wood window; the low estimate is definitely vinyl. A halfway decent vinyl window...low-E glass with argon between the panes (do not, ever, purchase a window that doesn't have low-E glass because low-E glass will save you big bucks on your heating bill) in size 36x62--a very common size for bedrooms and other similar rooms--is about $250. $130 to install this window--remember, they must also dispose of the old window, and that's not free--isn't out of line.

The thousand-dollar-per-window estimate? Wood windows aren't like vinyl replacement windows. You must remove and reinstall, or more likely replace, the interior casing. You must apply a finish to the interior wood. There's a lot more work involved. And the window unit itself is more expensive--around $650 to $700 for one unit if you get the Andersen Series 400 with no upgrades, such as fancy window locks or sash lifts. Come see me and I'll demonstrate how to get just the window up over $1000--and for that you get a box with a window in it--by adding things such as the Clear View screen, fancy locks, fancy grilles and the like.

Replacement windows are really expensive, but these bids don't sound unreasonable to me.

--jmowreader, factory-trained window dealer (Andersen, Jeld-Wen and Silverline)

[CTyankee]

5. wow, thanks for this expert advice. my windows sizes of course

vary but the standard seems to be about 33 inches across (measuring in side the frame)by about 46 tall, double hung. I also have a large bay window (picture)in my family room which was added on to this house.

The $22,000 quote was NOT for wood. The sales guy says wood can shrink whereas vinly stays the same. His pitch was that his vinly was superior, of courseas was the gas (he mentioned 2 kinds, argon and another one, which was his and he said superior). It did look good; it had more of a finish and had a kind of classy look.

My house is not expensive by Connecticut standards. It is in a nice, but not upscale neighborhood. Comparable homes in my area have recently sold for about $270,000. A lot of people have replacement windows. My windows, with the old rope and pulley, are the original ones that came with the house when it was built in 1941. They get stuck a lot and of course are horrors to clean.

[jmowreader]

21. A bay window's about $1300...for a small one

Okay, I think I know what the $22,000 guy was selling...there is a thing called a Superwindow. It is (this is a mouthful) a triple-glazed window with two soft-coat low-E coatings and two layers of Krypton gas. It has a U-value--1/U-value equals R-value--of 0.15 (lower is better in U-values), and it costs an arm and a leg.

OTOH, Andersen's low-E4 glass (I keep going back to Andersen windows for some reason...I think it's the very high build quality of the window and, more importantly, that you can get parts for anything Andersen ever made even if they have to make you one from scratch, and they're set up to do that) gives you a U-value of 0.30. Not QUITE as high as the superwindow, but still decent. Better than...oh, Silverline's American Craftsman 9500 vinyl window at 0.32.

Hang on...vinyl stays the same? Go with the cheap guy if the expensive guy would tell you that. Seriously. Vinyl expands and contracts by a LOT, which causes more air infiltration through the unit in the wintertime unless the weatherstripping in the windowframes is perfect, and between the unit and the rough opening unless you put spray foam in the gap. It also sags if it gets hot enough, which is a special threat to south-facing windows.

There are as many as four ratings on a window: U-factor, Solar Heat Gain Coefficient, Visible Light Transmission and Air Leakage. The AL rating is optional and, generally, vinyl windows aren't tested for it because AL varies with temperature on those. Basically: U-factor measures heat going through the window from inside to outside; SHGC measures the amount of heat the window picks up in the sun; VT measures how well you can see through the thing; and AL measures the amount of wind whipping through the unit. I tell you this just for fun.

Now...you REALLY want a good window? Forget vinyl and go to fiberglass. Super high performance, very little thermal expansion/contraction and you can paint the unit if you decide white isn't for you anymore. Price is a little higher than wood.

[Redstone]

30. Those would be the Schucho windows from Germany. Great tech, but cost

a screaming fortune.

Redstone

[jmowreader]

31. There are more brands now, all licensed from Schucho

I think they also licensed the price list. Outrageous doesn't begin to cover it.

[Redstone]

32. And boy, how the window salesmen motherfuck their competitors up and down.

It's a vicious business, yes?

Redstone

[FormerDittoHead]

4. I'm thinking it would depend upon what kind / size of windows you're talking about...

Are you getting 22 beveled glass vinyl on the outside / wood on the inside, built in blinds, etc or are they just double pane all vinyl, etc?

I just LOVE the sales guys who tout THEIR windows like they're SO much better, blaw, blaw, blaw.

If they are simple all-vinyl and not more than 72" x 48" (which is a big window, we have two like that), I would say there is no way that they would cost $1,000 a pop. No way.

We got windows around $300 each (90 year old brick house) and I STILL think we paid too much. It took ONE GUY (NOT the guy who owned the business, btw) 3-4 hours to do the three windows soup to nuts. How much do you think HE was getting paid?

And talking about wild variances in quotes, as an aside, we recently had a new roof put in. One was for $15,500, the other guy who did the job (with extras) came to $8,500...

I honestly think they "size you up" and figure how much you'd bite for.

[CTyankee]

6. Where do you live? I'm in Connecticut, a very expensive state to

live in, altho not as bad as Calif. overall.

If he was sizing us up, our house and cars were certainly nothing for him to get excited about. I drive an older car that has been paid for since 2001. My furniture and the way we dress would not indicate wealth at all. The windows themselves that he showed me were not fancy at all, except for the frames. The exterior moulding was nice. No wood on the inside (my daughter has those but she also has a house worth $1.1 million.)

[Whoa_Nelly]

7. Chat up Redstone

he went through this last year

[Rosemary2205]

8. We JUST bought new windows

Southside Atlanta here... We bought the midgrade Andersen vinyl ones from Lowes and paid them for installation. Around here midgrade averages about $350 a window installed for standard sizes. Our bathroom was a special size and cost $450 installed. We have a wood sided one story house with 10 windows.

Our contract was all spelled out. They took the measurements and ordered the windows. The contract stated the size, location, and type of each window. They remove the old ones, saving the inside trim. Installed the new ones and replaced the inside and outside trim. They hauled off the old windows and cleaned up the job site. They also were responsible for insulating and caulking around the windows and the contract said exactly what product they would use to do that. WE HAD TO PAINT THE OUTSIDE MOLDING. We checked references on the installer. We had a few hiccups with the installer beforehand but the windows are great and installation went fine.

I can see how your old colonial would cost more but $1000 a window seems really high and to be honest, the $380 a window, though normally would sound about right, seems a little low because of your historic home situation and I would question the materials being used and what that includes.


Good luck.

Edit --- whoops! Sorry. We looked at Andersen - they were wood with vinyl cladding and decided we could not afford that. I'm sorry, I don't know what brand our vinyl windows are but they are midgrade from Lowes. My apologies.

[jmowreader]

22. Your windows are ThermoStar by Pella

Pella makes a nice, fully-welded vinyl window. Nothing wrong with it at all.

[dropkickpa]

9. My parents just replaced several windows

And, while it doesn't seem as drafty, they just, well, look like crap (to me). This is a 100 year old house, and they went with the vinyl ($$), and it just doesn't go. Now, during the energy audit they and done, the windows on their 3rd floor were great, they guy said my parents would be stupid to replace them. How? While I was still living there, I went and did maintainence on all of them (I lived on the 3rd floor, there's no heat up there).

I replaced the cord in the sash pulleys with chain, rehung dropped weights (from cord that had been broken), weather stripped with spring bronze, and caulked around all of them (the join between the wood and wall and also the glass wood join). The first window took me forever, but by the time I got to the 5th (last) it was about 2 hours and I was done. I spent about $40 on the spring bronze stripping, $20 on caulk, about $60 on bronze sash chain. So, for about $120 and some sweat equity, the entire 3rd floor is just as draftless as the 1st floor where many of the windows were replaced. And I am NOT super handy. My parents have actually asked me to show my dad how to do this repair work on several of the 2nd floor windows (extra large/odd shaped windows that would need custom made replacements).

Are you replacing the windows due to irrepairable structural problems with them (termite/water damage, etc)? You may want to look into what it would take to rehab them as opposed to replace. This site is an INVALUABLE resource http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/How-To/Windows/

[CTyankee]

13. Thanks for the link. You sound pretty handy to me! We sure aren't

I don't think rehabbing will be the way to go. For one thing, home buyers are probably going to look for replacement windows for 2 reasons: saving energy costs and ease in cleaning. A lot of homeowners in our area have done this already and I think there will be an expectation that your house would have them. So we'd be at a disadvantage not to have them when we sell.

[seemunkee]

10. I'm having someone come by and give me an estimate this next week

We had some done a couple of years ago and they ran $5200 for 9 regular double hung and one picture window. This was for Vytex windows

[CTyankee]

12. Are you in the expensive Northeast?

What are Vytex windows? Never heard that term. That's how ignorant we are. Geez...

[seemunkee]

14. I'm in MD, DC suburbs

I would say yes pretty expensive here. I didn't set out to buy that brand but there was an offer from the local power company and that was the type they were selling. Vinyl clad wood framed so you don't have to paint them.
We only need five this time around.

[CTyankee]

18. I remember the DC suburbs. I lived in Annandale, VA for 9 1/2 years

but left in 1985 for New Haven, CT. Didn't regret it one bit. I love New Haven.

We'll prolly do the whole house all at once. I'm thinking we'll prolly have to go for about $650 a window.

[Generic Brad]

11. $3600 for four windows

Sometimes it sucks to live in a highrise.

[Redstone]

15. Hey, we got a quote of $55K for 28 windows. And that's just the upstairs.

But they were for Schucho triple-pane windows. The Castle windows we did on the first floor five years ago ran about $400 per window (they're large ones).

I'd not hesitate to recommend Castle. Good windows at a good price, and efficient installation. good service if you ahve a problem. This is the second house we've used Castle for.

We're in Connecticut too, by the way.

Redstone

[CTyankee]

17. I just pm'd you! So disregard, unless you have more to say and

I'd love to hear it, whatever.

I get these coupons from Castle and wonder if they were OK. I'll seek them out.

Wow. 55k is a lot. The value of my house wouldn't support that kind of cost ($270,000, not a lot for CT).

[Gogi]

20. That guy who dissed wood windows, ignore him...

for that amount of money he should be talking about top of the line wood framed windows!

[jmowreader]

25. Well, there IS that bay...

An Andersen or Jeld-Wen wood angle bay with operating flankers is going to run you between $2000 and $3000 depending on size, what kind of flankers--double-hung or casement--the operators on casement flankers, latches on double-hung flankers...

Now! If you decide to blow off this "vinyl never changes, wood shrinks" thousand-dollar-window guy and go with wood windows, there are basically three kinds: primed wood, aluminum-clad wood and vinyl-clad wood.

Primed wood almost automatically means Jeld-Wen--they're the only company playing in that market. The advantage to primed wood is that if you're trying to replace one window at a time, the home won't look like a work-in-progress. Plus, it's less expensive than clad wood. The main disadvantage is they require paint. (I recommend Sears Weatherbeater Ultra with Polyurethane. Best paint on the market. It's made by Sherwin-Williams, and it's better than even the polyurethane paint Sherwin-Williams sells in its own stores.)

Aluminum-clad wood is once again Jeld-Wen's exclusive turf. This is a REAL good window. The aluminum cladding is powder-coated for durability and for absolute resistance to ever being painted a different color, so don't choose the bright-red windows if you're not absolutely sure. Jeld-Wen offers aluminum brickmould--the casing on the exterior of the window--that is very attractive, never can be painted, and runs the price of the window up about $80 per unit. A huge advantage here is you can get very dark colors in these windows--and the color range is much wider, seven colors as opposed to four on a vinyl-clad unit. Unfortunately, one of the colors is not blue, and I've been asked for it.

Everyone else playing in the wood window market is selling vinyl-clad wood. It is a layer of vinyl bonded with some sort of super adhesive to a wood window--incidentally, all wood windows are made from either borate-treated Radiata pine or borate-treated hardwood. These are normally available in four colors--white, light brown, dark brown and forest green. A lot of the vinyl-coated white and light-brown windows can even be painted, if you can't find a color you like.

Incidentally, if a vinyl window dealer tells you new wood windows are bad because they can't be tilted for washing, leave quickly. If there's no little levers on top of the unit, you tilt a wood window by pushing in on the track with one hand while pulling that side of the sash back on the other, then moving to the other side of the window and doing the same thing again. All windows made today tilt in for washing. They wouldn't sell if they didn't.

[Redstone]

28. Gotcha and replied. Hope it helps. We're in a high-bracket town, so even though

we paid less than your quoted value for our house, it's worth about twice that now. (And yes, we poured cash into it. It isn't just because of market uplift.)

Redstone

[bertha katzenengel]

16. We replaced one window, $1300.

Replaced at the same time we painted, put in wood floors, put in new window coverings. They brought the wrong color and we didn't notice 'til the window was in (it's white; the others are beige).

All the windows in the house are double-glazed, and have that gas between the panes. The replacement window is also double-hung -- wish they all were.

Good luck.

[Gogi]

19. Is there a possibilty that you could install them yourself?

We were given an installation price of $100 dollars per window when you basically just set the window in, level it, put insulation around it and then put the inside trim up. The trim holds the window in place.

On edit: vinyl, double glazed, insulated, double hung with tilt out for easy cleaning windows.

[jmowreader]

23. Uh-oh...

Gogi, go to one of these windows that you installed and look at the frames, fairly close to the top and to the bottom. You should see a little hole in the frame on each side, maybe an inch or two down from the bottom and an inch or two from the top--plus one right in the middle.

That's where the drywall screws that actually hold the window in place go.

You put a shim between the unit and the rough opening to keep the screw from racking the window, and run a 1-5/8" drywall screw through the hole. You'll want to remove the casing and this piece of trim (which is mainly there to keep the wind from whipping through the crack between the window and the rest of the house), remove the sashes to make life easier on yourself, stick a shim in the gap between the window and the wall behind each screwhole, use a level to be sure the frame leg is straight up and down after inserting the shims, and run the screws in. Then put the top sash back in and run it up and down to be sure it operates smoothly before reinstalling the bottom sash.

--jmowreader, the party pooper

[Gogi]

29. Don't worry...

forgot that step. It's been 10 years since they were replaced.

[ironflange]

24. Not me, I'm sticking with XP until I have to upgrade

Aw, come on, somebody had to say it!

[jmowreader]

26. You know how that OS got its name, right?

Version 1 of that OS was really bad, as all Microsoft things are, and lots of their testers would install the software, try it once, and throw the package out the window so they'd never have to see it again.

The head of the development team went to Bill Gates: "Bill, we have a problem with the new environment. Everyone's throwing it out their windows."

Said the Esteemed Mr. Gates, "now we know what to call it."

[Writer]

27. I didn't get replacement windows in our current house, but I do...

know that the previous family living here paid $10,000 for a nice set of Anderson double-paned replacement windows. I don't know how many, however, unless I go about the house and count. :P I don't think it's 22, however.

It sounds like you may need to get third and fourth estimates. That's a very wide price range.

[femmocrat]

33. We did our entire house about 6 years ago.

It was worth every penny. We went with a local company that manufactures and installs their own windows. They even built a bay window for us and re-configured a large window wall. I think it was about $20,000 for a two-story colonial house.

We had horrible Andersen windows and replaced every one of them. These new ones are excellent. LIfe is too short to put up with leaky, drafty, ugly old windows.

[NewJeffCT]

34. I had my windows replaced in 2001, I believe

It was on my old house - which was just a ranch. home that had one big picture window with 2 flankers, 6 regular windows and 1 double window in the kitchen. Even for that small of a job, I got wildly different estimates, albeit at a lower scale than you. But, your prices don't seem out of line.

However, the most expensive guy had Certainteed windows (at the time, Consumer Reports had them #1 over Andersen & - I think - Marvin) and I was able to show him some of my other estimates and tell him that, for his cost, there was no way I was going to buy windows from him, no matter the quality difference. After a lot of haggling, I was able to get him down to within range of the lower estimates and ended up going with the Certainteed windows.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

35. My husband works for company that does replacement windows.

It's probably the company you found that is going to charge 22k. They're good, but they're gonna cost you.
Duckie

[sbj405]

36. I had estimates ranging from $4.5k-$12k for 12 windows

Local place was the cheapest. Sears and Home Depot 2-3x more. And this was essentially the same type of windows. I think ~$350-400/window is standard unless you are getting name brand (Pella, Anderson, etc.). My house is roughly the same age (1947 original windows).

The one thing that I remember looking for is that the window has a completely welded frame (not screwed), double pain, low e.

Check bbb and state licensing boards when you've narrowed down a contractor. And ask if they sub the work out (most places like Home Depot do).

Oh and check out the Home Improvement group here. Lot of knowledgeable people.