*sigh*

[sniffa]

:cry:

[LostinVA]

1. Seconded

[LaurenG]

2. I'm sorry, I'm so sorry

Please accept my/our apology because I/we didn't understand the depth of your pain or the way you felt after such a long struggle. Help me/us to understand and guide me/us out of my/our ignorance. I've/we've still got a long way to go but I'm/we're willing to learn.

I'm just so sorry.

[johnnie]

3. Well....

It IS a discussion board. :shrug:

Sometimes I feel a bit like you, but it has to do with a lot of different subjects and not just one. I also realize that there are a lot of people here in various stages of life, experience and situations. It would be absolutely perfect if everyone thought the same, but that is impossible and actually not a good thing.

I wonder why people want everyone to be on the same level as themselves. Honestly, I think a lot of flamewars are started because a person says something they think is innocent, but others don't take into account that maybe the person who said what they said might not be to the stage in their life where they will learn or be educated on the subject.

And of course it is normal to defend yourself, and people will do that when piled upon by a lot of people and then it turns into a mess.

I understand the different opinions here on people who feel that their "group" is getting mocked, attacked or being degraded. I am talking about all groups, not just the ones that are being discussed presently. I understand, but I also have to say to the people who feel like they are being singled-out and disrespected here at DU, please try to also keep in mind that not every person has the same amount of life experience and background. To attack a person just because you think they should know better is no different than a person saying something you think they should already know.

Tolerance is a two-way street sometimes. Instead of attacks, maybe some attempt at discussion or educating might help matters. :shrug:

[merh]

4. Wow, wonderful post - thank you.

:hug: "Tolerance is a two-way street sometimes. Instead of attacks, maybe some attempt at discussion or educating might help matters." :hug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. hey i tried...i put up a non accusatory thread about why some jokes may not be funny.

[johnnie]

9. Well, I wasn't saying it didn't happen

I personally think that the majority of people here at DU are good people with good intentions. But I also think that a large percentage of the flamewars could be avoided with a little thoughtfulness.

As I said, this isn't just about one group of people, I see it in a lot of discussions about a lot of things that people would like to believe everyone should be "up to speed" on.

[PVnRT]

8. That is a logical, thoughtful response

Hence, it will be ignored.

Oh, and IBTL wooooooooooooo

[NMDemDist2]

10. what is IBTL?

i see it but i don't understand it

thanks in advance!

[LSK]

12. In Before The Lock

[NMDemDist2]

22. thanks I added it to the Glossary! n/t

[seemunkee]

13. It means In Before The Lock

[NMDemDist2]

23. thanks I added it to the Glossary! n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

15. Tolerance is always a two way street.

It doesn't mean that we all need to believe the same thing, only that we are willing to accept people with practices and beliefs that are different from our own.

Here's the way it's phrased in my dictionary:
2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b : the act of allowing something : TOLERATION


Good post johnnie.

[Duncan Grant]

24. "Tolerance is a two-way street sometimes. Instead of attacks, maybe some attempt at discussion ..."

I think you raise some interesting points, johnnie.

When someone says to me, "I have a gay brother and I know everything I need to know about gay life, gay culture and gay experience in America, so, shut the fuck up -- you obviously don't know what you're talking about" -- as a gay man, it pisses me off.

To be the object of frat boy humor and passive-aggressive insults is too much to ask of me. I'm fed up at having to be the DU "homo" who educates everyone.

I don't think tolerance is the issue here at DU. The issue is empathy.

After the empathy, we can move toward the tolerance.

[ThomCat]

28. "After the empathy, we can move toward the tolerance."

I think people tolerate us, but don't always respect us. Tolerance is not enough.

Empathy is necessary if we're going to accomplish anything as a group, but it's a bit lacking around here recently.
:(

[LeftyMom]

6. Yeah.

What year is this again?

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. Ah, you just can't see what's "really" there in front of your nose

sniffa. :(

[Duncan Grant]

11. Now I'm a militant "gay" with a chip on my shoulder.

Condescending bullshit runs deep around here these days.

[ThomCat]

27. Who's going to get banned

Because one person said so. :eyes:

[Mrs. Venation]

14. I Know

I don't believe in comparative misery. Like the OP in the locked thread, I came out in the 70's and have been living openly as a gay woman for more than 30 years. I saw some really terrible stuff back then, but I also saw the beginnings of a cohesive movement for human rights and equality.

I am astonished that anyone would believe that today's young, attractive and intelligent gay people have nothing to complain about. Gay people are subjected to the worst and most vitriolic hatred in this country. Several states have enshrined, in their constitutions, legal discrimination against gay couples, and a movement is still underway to enshrine that same odious second-class status into the Constitution of the United States. Gay bashing, both physical and emotional, is still a problem. And even though the populace is better educated about the nature of sexual orientation, there is still a horrifying number of people who espouse the belief that homosexuality is a "chosen behavior," and any behavior that is chosen is subject to punishment by the tyranny of the majority.

Each generation should, IMO, strive to make life easier for the next. I do believe that today's gay youth have an easier path than my generation did. But, easy? No way.

Liberty is not won by being silent in the fact of oppression.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. ...

thank you

also what does being young/attractive/intelligent have to do with other people's bigotry

[Mrs. Venation]

29. Youth, etc.

LP, I have no idea. Seems to me the OP was saying we had life much tougher than today's kids, so suck it up and stop complaining.

I totally disagree with that. We can only stop complaining when individual liberty and the fullness of humanity is assured for everyone. We are a long, long way from that ideal.

Mrs. V.

[Duncan Grant]

18. Beautifully stated, Mrs. V!

:applause: :hi:

[LostinVA]

19. Nice post -- you should post more often

I mean that seriously.

[terrya]

20. That's a great post, Mrs V.

Thank you.

[jonnyblitz]

21. I remained silent through all the comments and jokes I had

to endure while closeted in the military during the 80's and 90's (for my own safety) and I refuse to do it now on a supposed "progressive" discussion board. if people have the need to mock others by making jokes and are THAT needy of attention via that method than I suggest they seek help. I was told the term "breeder" was offensive to straight folk SO I STOPPED USING THAT TERM. VERY FUCKING SIMPLE!! i guess my need for attention by being the class clown doesn't override common fucking decency.

anyways, NICE post, Mrs. Venation.

[ThomCat]

34. Very, very well said.

:applause:

[terrya]

17. I don't know.

Imagine that you've lived with hostility because of who you are all your life. You've gotten called "faggot" in high school or college, perhaps. When you came out to your parents, they may have disowned you...or even worse.

Imagine living in a society where until very recently there were sodomy laws that were in place to prosecute you for what you do in the privacy in your own home.

Imagine being told, again until recently, that being gay was a "mental illness". Hell, sadly, some allegedly educated people STILL believe that. In 2006.

Imagine having some of the largest religions in the world officially telling you that you and your relationships and your family is "sick and disordered".

Imagine being told by the President of the United States, among other people in public life, that your perfectly reasonable right to have your marriage to your partner legally recognized is a "threat to the sanctity of marriage" and that it's necessary to have an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to permanently ban such marriages.

And now...realizing all of that...imagine coming to what is supposed to be a progressive web site and being ridiculed for who you are. Imagine NOT being given any respect for who you are.

It's...sad beyond belief.

Sorry.

[ThomCat]

26. One addition to a wonderful post

Imagine that it's your supposed friends and allies who are ridiculing you, and they refuse to even take you seriously enough to listen when you speak up about it.
:(

[Gormy Cuss]

32. That, ThomCat,is the heart of the matter.

When your only defense is one of these phrases:
"Lighten up"
"Grow a sense of humor"
"Get over yourself"

then IMHO it's time to shut up and listen.

[Midlodemocrat]

31. I can't imagine any of that, Terrya.

But, I'm really, really trying. My life as a married heterosexual has been pretty wonderful. People 'celebrated' our wedding, the births of our children, our home purchase. No one ever implied that our relationship was evil or dangerous to the neighbors or any of the other crap that the RW spews so rabidly.

I just can't understand the depth of the vitriolic hatred for gay men and women. How can you hate someone for who they love? How can you hate someone because of their natural born sexual orientation?

Do we hate people with green eyes? Do we hate those born with birth defects? Why do we choose to hate who someone LOVES?

I don't think I'll ever get it.

[Mrs. Venation]

35. Well Said, Terry

Thank you.

Words are very powerful, and can inflict the most unbearable pain. We should use them wisely. We should also, when opportunity presents itself, neutralize words that are used to inflict pain. I remember during the late 70s when the word "queer" was embraced by many GLBT people. That was a conscious effort to neutralize its sting, and I think it worked pretty well.

I've grown a pretty thick skin over the years, especially at barbs directed at me. It's when barbs are directed at others that I get my dander up. People can call me any name they want - I really don't care - but if you want to see a raging hillbilly hissy fit*, call one of my gay brothers a faggot to deride him.



*Ever fought a mountan lion? You'd know what it was like if you engaged me in a raging hillbilly hissy fit.

Mrs. V.

[bridgit]

25. sadly it is greater than the sums of it's individual parts; sadder still...

entropy takes it all down Alice's wonderful black rabbit hole...i had my throat slit & left for dead by a hetero male welcome to life :hi:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bicentennial_baby]

33. Actually, no

That is incorrect. I'm not going to go into that whole story all over again, but you are incorrect about why he was banned.

[Avalux]

36. Locking.

Continuation of a locked thread. Thanks for your understanding.