Interesting History Channel show : Banned books of the Bible

[Must_B_Free]

The gist of the show was that there are many key biblical writings that were left out of the official Roman canon at Nycea because they were politically incompatible. The Koran contains them still. Also the Ethopian scriptures contain them.

If you are a Bible scholar, you have no doubt noticed the impossible situations described in scripture for example Cain and Abel being the first offspring of man, yet having women to marry. Also the tiny bit about the angels mating with the dughters of the earth and creating giants. Tidbits like these make you really wonder.

Many such things are better explained in these "forbidden books". The show tied together alot of things about Judaism, Christianity and western history.

Interesating also was the suggestion that the dead sea scrolls were stored because, at that point, a ruler banned the Gnostic christian teaching and the owners didn't want to simply destroy these texts that they found significant but politically forbidden. There was a Gospel according to Mary, for example. Stories of the life of young Jesus. More colorful Apocalyptic stuff. There was a whole detailed description of Adam and Eve that was tossed out.

Anyway, in the context of crusades, wars of good and evil, invasion, occupation, pillaging and the psychological manipulation required to manage an empire, it's interesting to see that, even with rapid advances of technology, so much has stayed the same; here we are again led into battle by kings of devine authority, cooking up the right stories to get the job done so they can attempt to satiate their needs for more power.

[trotsky]

1. We watched that last night.

I agree, a very interesting show. But as an atheist, it all just further clarifies things for me - namely, that the Bible really is just a collection of random stories from very primitive and superstitious minds. Many of the manuscripts documenting the life of Jesus from his contemporaries were actually penned decades if not centuries after his death. It's interesting reading, but little more.

[Cannikin]

2. I'm going to go to hell for saying this, but....

I have to agree with the last post...
When I watched the 'Biography' episode that delt with Mary (Mother of Christ) I started to feel the same way. When they take the time to explain the world at the time, the bible really starts to seem like a poor work of fiction (oh my, did I just say that?).
The way it was explained, sex outside of marriage was forbidden. Having a child out of wedlock would have gotten Mary stoned to death (and not in the good way!).
Can you imagine in modern times, someone claiming they had an immaculate conception? Or someone claiming to be the son of God?
I've read arguments that Jesus was from the future, and as silly as it sounds, there arguments were more plausible than most religious arguments.
"We arent supposed to question things like that. Just go on faith" is what I was told in sunday school as a child. I didnt accept it then and I sure dont now.

[trotsky]

4. Let's not forget how illiterate and uneducated the population was.

Jesse James' widow was correcting "embellishments" about his life within 10 years of his death, and this was only about a century ago!

If you go back 2 millenia, how much worse was word-of-mouth exaggeration? Especially when you are looking at more than a hundred years passing before it gets transcribed! Is it really that much of a stretch to doubt that anything happened the way the bible describes it?

[LiberalFighter]

23. And the church wanting to control the people.

They had it easy. Only they knew what was written. They determined what was printed when books began to be printed.

[Capn Sunshine]

18. BTW one of Bush's biggest supporters claims to be son of god

Rev. Sun Moon, owner/publisher , Washington Times.
Claims to be Christ incarnate.

interesting guy. :)

[Must_B_Free]

13. it's more than interesting reading

it's self reflective. we can see what shaped us. We look back 2000 years ago and see the hypocritical greedy republicans trying to change the truth into something that works better for their purposes.

Same Shit, different millenia.

I would charge that much of the story of Jesus was written BEFORE his birth, i.e Mythras. I think he was a symbol of a Superman at that time. He was definitely very Gnostic - his power came from within. The empire remved the gnostic parts and kept the parts that emphasized what they wanted to promote, (Patriarchy, for example). Clearly some of the documents were from hundreds of years later trying to cover the logical holes in the stories.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

20. Mithra was born on December 25th

to a virgin.
I belive the church was in the process of assimilating native cultures at that early stage.

[jbm]

21. I am in no way a Bible scholar..

but I have this little theory that I've put together just based on bits and pieces of things I've picked up over the years(feel free to blow my theory out of the water..that's what happens to most of em.:) ).

Anyway...I'm thinking that that the Bible is an amazingly successful attempt to outline a society. I don't know all of the players that deserve credit for this,but Abraham must have been an incredible guy. I don't know how we know about the historical Abraham,but the story I've heard is that his father was an idol maker,and Abraham objected to the 'many gods' line of thinking and sought to unify people under the 'single God' concept. In the context of the times,the stories he's involved in would have had huge progressive impacts on society. The story where God tells him to sacrifice Isaac always bothered me because the motivations todays religions attribute to him never seemed to justify his actions,but if you put the story in context of the times,there is a whole new meaning.

Apparently,child sacrifice was a very common thing in that time period. If there wasn't a good harvest,people sacrified their children to whatever god would help them out. If there was sickness,they sacrificed a few children to another god. When the God of Abraham stayed his hand and told him not to sacrifice Isaac,the message he took back to the people was that his God had rejected child sacrifice.

Our concepts of law come from the Bible..even the details. I've read that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is the basis for determining the margin of era we allow in our court systems. Abraham bargained down the amount of rightous men he must find from fifty to ten,but after ten God walked away. Apparently,that's why our system of justice errs on the side of the innocent,but is not so lenient that it doesn't accept the possibility that a certain percentage of innocents will be convicted.

and as long as I'm at it..this didn't come from Abraham,but my favorite story is the good samaritan in context of the times. The Levite priest that originally came across the wounded man was very unique in the culture of the times because they were considered 'pure'. The priests had to be born to their position,and in order to maintain their purity,were never allowed to come into contact with sickness or blood or to be around dead or dying people. I'm not sure what their function in society was,but there weren't many of them,and once they were 'no longer pure' they weren't able to carry out their duties,and this caused hardship for the people they represented. It was literally illegal for the Levite to help the injured man. The moral of the story that Jesus' listeners would have walked away with would have been "mercy before law". I've always loved that.

I'm not religious,but over the years I've developed great respect for the Bible. If you look past the ways its been misused over the years,and view it as a guide that was used to develop societies,it's a whole different experience.

[Malva Zebrina]

3. I did not see the show, but it sounds interesting

another good book to read if there is some interest in the history of the bible is The Bible Unearthed by well known reputable archaeologists, Israel Finkelstein, and Neil Silberman. A little complicated to read at times,kind of jumps around, but nevertheless somewhat controversial, as is anything that questions the truth of the bible.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. I Watched That With Great Interest, Too!

I was facinated by it. And, i'm areligious. So, it was a very well done piece of history, i thought.

The Gospel of Mary was my favorite part.
The Professor

[mmm]

6. I didn't know there was a Gospel of Mary

interesting

[ProfessorGAC]

7. I Didn't Either, Until Last Night

It was written regarding Mary Magdela, who was considered, by those stories to have had a special relationship with Christ. In those stories, she had conversations with Christ that even Peter hadn't had.

The gist of the piece in the show, was that the patriarchal society of the time wouldn't accept a woman as one of the inner circle disciples, so the book was not one of those included as the "official" bible at Nicea.

If it replays, you should watch. LOTS of interesting stuff.
The Professor

[htuttle]

9. Oh, they threw all the good stuff out at Nicea

The gospel of Thomas has always been another of my favorites (at least since I first heard about it and read it). It's style reminds me of a book of Zen Koans.

Seems to me, Constantine's motives at the Council of Nicea were to end up with a religion suitable for controlling an empire with. It appears he succeeded. Whether it bore any resemblance to the message of the Gospels in the 1st Century was a secondary consideration.

[Must_B_Free]

I never before understood the relationship of Ethopia in the picture

I have always known of an early christian history of Ethopia. Ethopians actually took the ark from King Solomon who was not guarding it carefully and brought it to Ethopia.

The Ethopian canon was not hacked like the roman one, they still had enoch and other books that are necessary to understand the full story.

Anyway its interesting to see that the mystic tradition of Rastafari is rooted in a more pure Christianity or less afflicted version of that story of history. I guess that's what Steel Pulse meant by "Dis here version, not a King James version"

[Must_B_Free]

15. I never before understood the relationship of Ethopia in the picture

I have always known of an early christian history of Ethopia. Ethopians actually took the ark from King Solomon who was not guarding it carefully and brought it to Ethopia.

The Ethopian canon was not hacked like the roman one, they still had enoch and other books that are necessary to understand the full story.

Anyway its interesting to see that the mystic tradition of Rastafari is rooted in a more pure Christianity or less afflicted version of that story of history. I guess that's what Steel Pulse meant by "Dis here version, not a King James version"

[EDT]

8. What was the name of the book the show was based on?

Was it just "Banned books of the Bible"?

Found it very interesting. Would love a couple of Bible thumpers I spar with on a friendly basis to see it, but they wouldn't sit through it.

[jaysunb]

11. you know...

it always amazes me how they (bible thumpers) never want to hear anything that might enlighten them or contradict things that aren't in the script. Kinda like modern day republicans......

[louis-t]

10. watched it

fascinating!

[Ilsa]

12. I missed the first half of the program.

Called my husband in from the other room where he was finishing my copy of the novel The Da Vinci Code. He has now expressed interest in reading my old copy of The Gnostic Gospels. I am waiting for Pagel's lastest work, Beyond Belief: the Gospel according to Thomas (I think that's the title) to be released in soft cover.

Interesting information being brought before the public for debate. And it is really interesting to see pastors and professors of theology discuss the early history of the church and the power struggles. I'm hoping to see all of that show on the History Channel again soon.

[elperromagico]

14. The Bible (particularly the New Testament) does seem disjointed.

Massive gaps in the life of Christ; we see him when he's 12 in the temple, and then don't know anything about him again until he's about 30. Surely Jesus didn't just work in the carpentry shop for all of those 18 years--- if he demonstrated such a knowledge of scripture at the age of 12, why on earth would that knowledge go unharnessed?

Why would Christ wait 30 years to begin his work?

[Must_B_Free]

16. they were there, but taken out

there was a story about christ being kind of like Trellain in the Squire of Gothos, i.e. too big for his britches... He grew more mature.

One of the lost texts was stories of christ from age 5 to 12... At one time Jesus pushed a friend off a roof to his death, but later resurrected him.

[Khephra]

17. I saw it and then taped it in a repeat

As a somewhat Gnostic myself, I found that show (and actually many of the Christmas shows on THC this season) to be incredibly anti-fundy and well worth the time for everyone who is interested in seeing "what could have been". Even though I had heard much of the material before, the show managed to throw a few facts in that I hadn't heard of.

[Must_B_Free]

19. Did you see the "Heaven and Hell" show after it?

I thought they took a fundy and put him with a bunch of scholarly commentators and it seemed demonstrate how fanciful the fundy was...

[Maine Mary]

22. Darn I missed it

But the History channel has had alot of intersting stuff on Bible related topics this week. I hope they re-run the one you speak of.

[LiberalFighter]

24. Upcoming History Channel shows

1 Jan 10PM ET/PT -- Love and Sex in the Hebrew Bible
1 Jan 11PM ET/PT -- The Bible Code: Predicting Armageddon


Time Machine: Banned from the Bible is not listed in the available schedule.

[hellhathnofury]

25. I thought it was quite fascinating.

Now I have to do some reading.

Most interesting part was how Peter's version of revelation got axed because it suggested that the suffering of so many in hell couldn't be tolerated. They would all eventually be saved, but don't tell them that. Great stuff.