Any boxers on DU -- I have a question

[LostinVA]

My question: I've read before that boxing bag training can be a great cardio and upper-body workout for women... but what the heck IS the workout? I would like to supplement my running with some different cross training.

I've looked in books, online, etc., and can't find a thing. Anyone have any books, etc. to suggest?

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. Not a boxer, but I can answer some of this...

the workout you probably want would be heavy bag training; the heavy bag simulates the body of an opponent, and you train by putting on heavy bag gloves (extra padding, so you don't hurt your knuckles) and laying into the bag for three minutes, then break for one minute, then another three minutes (to simulate timed rounds with a break between). If you're going to do this it probably wouldn't hurt to get some basic training in things like footwork and how to throw punches (hook, jab, cross, etc).

Here's a link with a video of a heavy bag session: http://www.ironglovesboxing.com/html/heavy_bag_training.html


There's also a speed bag (smaller, simulates an opponent's head, good for practising hand-eye coordination; but since you're more interested in cardio benefits than actual boxing, you probably don't need to know about that).

[LostinVA]

3. Excellent. Thanks.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. Do you actually know how to punch properly?

I'm not being an ass, I'm being serious. If you don't do it right, you can seriously fuck up your wrist/elbow/shoulder. Oh yeah, and definitely get yourself some bag gloves. Everlast makes some pink boxing gloves. :P I only train with gloves part of the time, but in karate we're expected to toughen our hands. You don't need that.

I actually have the book "Complete Idiot's Guide to Kickboxing," because I liked some of the workout stuff in it, and naturally, it is pretty simple.

Anyway, this is basically what I do on the heavy bag...

(All rounds are 2 minutes with about a 30-45 second break between, since that's how it'd be sparring in class)
I start out focusing on technique.

I always start out with my kicks.

I'll do a few rounds of simple punching combos.

Jab-cross punch
Jab-cross-hook-elbow
Jab-cross-hook-uppercut
Jab-uppercut-hook-cross

Et cetera.

Then, I'll spend a round or two just pushing the bag around, and evading it, to work on my footwork.

Finally, I'll bring it all together and I'll do a few rounds of free sparring on it.

If you have further questions, just ask. That's a quick basic rundown though.

[LostinVA]

4. Of course not -- that would make too much sense

I know you're not being an ass.

My gym has a heavy bag and gloves, but no one there knows a thing about workouts, punching, etc.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. Okay, well...

I suggest trying to see if there's a boxing/kickboxing gym around so you can learn how to punch. A lot of times they'll let you try the first class free. It'll teach you the very basics at least.

Barring that, I suggest getting a book that at least has pictures of how to do it right.

Two things to remember:

1. Never fully extend your arm or lock your elbow, and keep your wrist strong.
2. Exhale as each hit makes contact.

Oh and I suggest buying your own gloves. You could pick up a cheap pair for like $20. Your hands will sweat a lot inside the gloves, so I just think sharing gloves is a very icky bacteria breeding ground.

[LostinVA]

5. And, I am NOT wearing pink gloves -- that's so gay

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

7. Oh, it'd be sooo cute...

[LostinVA]

8. EEEK!!!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

12. Oh you so know you secretly want them.

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

14. You b-word

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. Somehow I can't really see anyone serious wearing those.

Kind of hard to picture Laila Ali with pink gloves, for instance:

[LostinVA]

10. Or scary Michelle Rodriguez in "Girl Fight"

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

11. The only reason I could see someone wearing those is...

they are cheap starter gloves, it's a girl at the gym who doesn't know how to punch wearing them, and the profits actually go to breast cancer research, so at least it's a good cause.

I definitely couldn't picture Laila Ali or any real female boxer wearing them though.

[underpants]

13. Ha! Lost have you tried going oh about 3 minutes on one?

Not to laugh at you I completely understand that it doesn't look like it is all that hard ...... do a round (3 minutes with one) then rest for 2 minutes then try it again. I would say that you should head the advice above about not hurting your wrists but after the first 3 minutes you will probably have a hard time picking your hands up above your shoulders.

I'm not a boxer but I have a few friends in the fitness world and they clued me into this years ago when I was in really good shape. Well I was in good shape but not BOXER shape.

Your shoulders and chest will really show the work from doing this.

[LostinVA]

15. That's why I want to do it

I've been told it's a great cardio workout and an excellent upper body one for women. It'll make my off days from running different.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Yes

I boxed in late high school, during college, and one year while i was in grad school, and working at a gov't research facility. I had 73 AAU fights.

The workout that you're looking for probably doesn't exist. Heavy bag training is done for three different things:
1) To work on specific muscle groups to enhance the drive of that particular punch. One doesn't do heavy bag work to a lot of quick jabs. The point is to time the acceleration THROUGH the surface and deliver a solid blow. This improves muscle tone, size, and timing.

2) To gain aerobic endurance in the big muscles of the arms and legs. Punching hard is essentially an anaeroabic activity. It builds lactic acid quickly, and fatigues the muscles. Hence, the term "punched out", meaning that the fighter can't punch hard any more because the muscles can't deliver. Heavy bag work involves throwing WAY more punches in 15 or 20 minutes, than the fighter would throw in an entire fight. (The bag doesn't hit back!) Doing this once or twice a day creates a fatigue/recovery cycle that will strengthen the muscle and allow faster recovery (between rounds) and better oxygen exchange, which minimizes lactic acid formation.

3) To just generally improve the cardio by requiring intense effort for quite a long period.

Here's what i would suggest.
- First, get the softest bag you can. Water-filled bags are probably the best.
- Get a pair of PADDED bag mits. Don't let this workout do damage to the hands. That's pointless.
- Learn to make a good solid fist, with no gaps, nails not digging into the palm, thumb in front of the knuckles.
- Develop a set of 6 zones on the bag. High left, low left, high middle, low middle, high right, low right. This just needs to be a mental image, but taping the areas off can be very helpful.
- Now, in the workout, plan on doing it for at least 15 minutes. Punch at each of the zones with both straight and looping so that you hit the bag AT LEAST 20 times per minute. Try to concentrate on randomizing the zones, so as little pattern forms as possible.
- Keep moving your feet and body angle the whole time so that every muscle group is used to throw those punches do the varying directions.

If you need more, PM me.
The Professor

[LostinVA]

17. I may have miswrote what I wanted

I do alot of pretty long trail runs, so I'm not looking for a cardio workout as much as an upper-body workout. I've read that women often have better luck with the fatigue/recovery cycle with a heavy bag workout than with weights alone. I think you're "number 2" is more what I mean.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. With A Heavy Bag. . .

. . .the two are part and parcel. The point is to work the muscles for power and get a cardio workout at the same time. It really is the entire point of the activity. Sure, there are boxers who do stupid things like stand and punch. We see that in the movies all the time. (Remember "Rocky"?) Of course, most of the boxers that do the heavy bag workout flatfooted and loop punching are losers. (Remember "Rocky"?) You would never have seen Ali, Hagler, Leonard, et al do heavy bag work that way.

It's not just for upper body. It works the cardio, and keeping the feet moving improves fast twitch tone in the legs and enhances balance and quickness.

So, it really is an all body excercise. And it is a very difficult workout. It will wear you out!
The Professor

[Downtown Hound]

19. Yes, I was in high school

My advice, find an instructor if you can. There were a couple of women that went to my club for the express reason you mention, to get the workout. They never fought in the ring, but they got all the lessons and as such, got a much better workout than they would have if they had just tried it at home.

The thing about boxing is that to really make it effective, you have to learn the right footing, the appropriate distribution of weight on your feet and the stance to really make it work. That's something that I can't really tell you how to do over the net, I'd have to show you. Also, when you start learning punching combinations is when you can really unload on a bag, and yes, it's a great workout. It always surprises many people that don't box to learn that there are quite a few boxers that don't lift weights. Many do, I myself did, but a lot don't and still end up looking buff and toned just from doing those bag workouts.

The speed bag is another great workout. Again, it's hard to explain how to do a workout on it over the net, but I'll try. Basically hit it once with the side of your hand where your pinky finger is. Then shift your arm and hit it with your elbow. Then switch arms, hit it with the side of your other hand, then the elbow on that arm. Then switch arms again and repeat the process. Repeat over and over. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll gain speed, accuracy, timing, muscle tone, and endurance doing this.

Again, the best way to learn is to find an instructor. You don't have to fight to just get lessons. It's one of the best workouts out there and you will feel more powerful than you've ever felt before, guaranteed.