Discrimination Against Fat: The Last Acceptable Prejudice here at DU

[Kathy in Cambridge]

I'm disgusted by a couple of discussions going on in the GD. The lack of empathy has startled me and angered me. A number of DUers think it's ok to discriminate against fat people because they cost "US" money and are unpleasant to look at. It's the same sense of superiority that racists and sexists justify their attacks on those who are different. I'm disgusted.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. There's no shortage of assholes in the world

sadly, even here.

[HEyHEY]

16. Oh what, so now we're picking on assholes?

;-)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. LOL-Assholes are people too!

:o

[HEyHEY]

20. I belong to a group called petoa

People for the ethical treatment of assholes!!

[Rainbowreflect]

2. I totally agree with you.

Replace the word fat with the word poor and those people would be banned.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

7. "Well, I only eat when I'm hungry and I'm the perfect weight" says DUer

and proceeds to use pig and other lovely expressions. You're right-replace "fat" with any ethnic slur and those folks would be outta here.

[FloridaJudy]

42. O gross!

I may be fat, but people like that are the *real* slobs. It's agonizing for some of us to try to lose weight, but how hard can it be to learn manners?
I've packed on the pounds mostly due the side effects of medication (anti-depressants and anti-seizure drugs) used to control chronic pain. Would these ditzes like me to do a Rush and get hooked on oxycontin instead?
Sheesh. Thanks for warning me. I'll stay out of the sewer as well.
:mad:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

43. They're problems go deeper than just hating fat people

maybe their parents didn't love them enough or something. I could not believe the venom in that discussion.

[BiggJawn]

52. He's not perfect. He's borderline FAT.

his BMI is 24. A BMI of 24.9 is considerd "overweight".

Pot, please say "Howdy" to Kettle.....:7

[TrueAmerican]

3. How do they cost us money ?

I don't get it.

Is it because of Health Care or soemthing like that?

[BiggJawn]

53. Yeah, same lame argument used against smokers...

Now that there's less smokers, the libertarians of Health Care gotta find somebody else to rag on. Never mind the Jim Fixx's of the world pounding their knees into jello and having MI's along the road, the cost of THAT is nothing. It's all us "Fat Slobs" who "can't get the hell away from the table" who make health care so expensive..."Why should *I* have to pay for *YOUR* poor health? WHY can't you just eat maybe once a week?"

Ignorant dweebs.

Ever think it might cost so much because they gotta pay for alkl those "Ask your Doctor" ads and have enough left to give Evan Bayh 450 kilobucks a year?

[Snow]

4. Wait a minute.....

I thought you said it was "acceptable"?

I know, I know, but I'm not real good on picking up sarcasm. Don't use it much myself, and it tends to go right by me.

What about neurofibromatosis patients? They look pretty nasty, too.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. and everyone knows if diabetics ate better and hypertensives did yoga...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

10. Yes, the judgementalism abounds...

blame the poor for their poverty and the disabled for their handicap. I am staying out of GD from now on!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. no

if you do that then there will only be idiotic posts

The force needs you, Rose :D

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. Thanks but with Will not here and the a-holes coming out of the woodwork

I think I am staying the hell out of the cesspool until the New Year!
:-)

[camero]

105. and skinny men just ate.

You dont know how many times i have gotten coke instead of diet coke because the waitress "thought" I didn't need diet coke. "Well, I'm diabetic and I can just die in front of you" is usually my response.

I really get sick of others having to taste my soda so I can make sure my waitress isn't "assuming" anything that could be deadly for me.

[blondeatlast]

134. Exactly--again. NSMA, you amaze me.

[blondeatlast]

135. I'm insulin dependent and I hear that ad nauseum.

I'm surprised those assholes are allowed to remain. I'm considering adding to my ignore list of so far, one, who has since been tombstoned.

[liberalhistorian]

225. Yes, and doncha know that if we were

all vegeterians we'd all magically be super-thin and never have any health problems ever again!:puke:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Overweight people don't all want to be that way

I have a metabolic condition that keept me on the heavy side. I did finally find a doctor who diagnosed it correctly and gave me an eating plan that works. I'll never be a size 6, but I will remain healthy, which is more than poor anorexics have to look forward to. And if anyone disses someone for appearances, it tells more about their character than it does about the person they are dissing.

[fishguy]

8. People should just chill out and go get to a buffet somewhere

[Kathy in Cambridge]

9. I was diagnosed with underactive thyroid

I gained 50 lbs in two years and worked out HARD 5 times a week. My calorie intake was mostly from fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lean meats and fish. I come from a thin family-no one in my family is more than 10 or 15 lbs overweight. I went to the doctor and she confirmed that my thyroid went haywire. I now take Levoxyl and am close to my ideal weight.

Something similar happened to my younger sister. She was diagnosed with Celiac Disease, which is an allergy to gluten and wheat products. She gained a ton of weight too. When she cut wheat out of her diet, she lost weight. She was a vegetarian who did not eat a lot of calories and she was a competitive swimmer.

If you don't have access to good healthcare-which most poor folks don't-you often don't get diagnosed with food allergies. Thankfully, I live in Mass. and there is a holisitic medical center that could help my sister when traditional medicine failed.

[Rowdyboy]

13. Why on earth would you care about the opinions of people that stupid?

All I can do is feel pity for their ignorance and intolerance.

[toddzilla]

14. it still hurts, no matter who says it.

I've had a 6-pack body that was very well put together, now i'm probably 60 pounds over weight. Not every person is blessed with a metabolism that allows excesses, and not everyone who is fat is simply a gluttonous person. many weight problems are directly related to emotional issues.


Why is it so hard for the world and it's inhabitants to realize that we are all people?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

17. And people in GD buy the whole American ideal

of the perfect bod. Like you, I was always well put together until my thyroid maxxed out. Like there isn't enough pressure to conform in the world, right?

[Kanary]

113. It's easy to say "why care"

But, when you're bombarded with criticism from all angles, day after day, for a long period of time, it wears away at you.

Sounds like you're lucky you haven't experienced this, so realize that some people have. It's abuse, and abuse wears a person down.

I'm not overweight, but I'm in a position to get criticism all the time, and I can tell ya, it HURTS.

There's absolutely NO reason for so-called "progressives" to be critical of others, especiallly those who are already struggling.

Kanary

[DS1]

15. Unless their name ends with USH

:shrug:

[southerngirlwriter]

19. Thanks, Rose, for starting this thread.

The threads over in GD are truly scary.

I'm going to attack their premise -- that fat people cost "us" money -- with a freeper-esque argument, for the purposes of illustration. I am about to tell you *someone else's* point of view, so please don't flame me.

First, I think they're wrong about that premise. And even if they were right, the truly obese tend to die young -- well before they collect all the Medicare and Social Security money they're due -- so it likely balances out.

Now....there is a store in my city that is owned by a man I know. I am not friends with him; I met him through interviewing him for an article I wrote. He is the first male in his family in six or seven generations to NOT be actively involved in the Ku Klux Klan. However, he is still a galloping racist.

He makes a point of following young blacks, both male and female, around his store. I took him to task for that behavior about two years ago. He said, and I quote, "Look at the prison population. Blacks DO commit more crimes. The man I bought this store from took a picture of every kid he caught stealing -- and the black faces in that book in my office outnumber the white ones 6 or 7 to 1. This ain't discrimination, honey. It's reality."

How is this man's behavior any different from those over in GD calling for an "obesity tax?"

That's what I'd like the fat-haters to tell me.

[dfong63]

21. here's one way to look at it...

i think many of those who display prejudice against fat people are really just terrified of being fat themselves. they want to believe fat people bring it on themselves - despite medical and scientific evidence pointing to a variety of causes including genetics, viruses, and diseases - because they (fat-phobics) need to feel that "it can't happen to me".

maybe it's not much different from the half-Jewish anti-Semite, or the half-black white supremacist, the closeted homophobe, etc...

[Kanary]

114. You are sooo completely right! Control!

A lot of it is control issues... if you can believe that you can control everything, then ... you're home safe, eh?

I saw the same thing after my son was kidnapped.... some people actually said, "What kind of a mother are you to let such a thing happen?" It hurt so bad, after so much other hurt. It took me a long time to realize that the very thought scared the crap outta them, and they had to figure out some way to be "safe". Blaming me was safe... cuz then they were assured it wouldn't happen to them.

I saw the same thing with Columbine. It scares parents to death to think that they could be a parent of a killer.... that's the first thought.. what are *those* parents going through.. no only losing their own kid, but being responsible for so much. So, they demonized the parents of the killers, so they would be "safe".

There are many examples of the same thing, and it's all ugly.

The control issues of this culture are going to drive us completely buggy if we don't start facing up to it.

Kanary

[Athletic Grrl]

167. Kanary...

:yourock:

[ikojo]

22. Fat hatred is a real problem in the US and

affects more than just the overweight.

I just got off the phone with my sister. She has a neice on her husband's side of the family who has a nine year old daughter. This little girl's father has had her walking on a treadmill since she was FIVE! He is SO afraid of her being fat. I asked my sister how she (the niece was doing and then I asked about her great niece), I was told that now she is on the ATKINS program. This little girl is NINE!

What business, except extreme hatred and phobia of all things fat, does a CHILD have being on ANY diet program, especially one as meat based at Atkins?

I told my sister that this little girl stood a good chance of becoming anorexic or bulimic.

Wow, I pray for this child for her parents know not what they do.

[Wonk]

25. Obesity is also a real problem in the US

http://www.obesity.org/subs/fastfacts/obesity_US.shtml
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/trend/prev_char.htm

[ikojo]

27. I hope you are not saying that it is OK

for this nine year old's father to place her on the Atkins program?

I also have another thought about hatred of things fat...I think this hatred is directed primarily at females. Overweight or slightly overweight boys are said to be chunky or husky. If a girl is overweight by just a few pounds it's cause for a national alert and these girls are called fat.

Little girls already have a tough road to navigate when it comes to body image in the US. They don't need their fathers, who are supposed to love them unconditionally, aiding in a more negative body image than they already have.

[Wonk]

31. re: Atkins or whatever other diet, and how young is too young

I'm not a dietician, nor do I play one on the internet.

My point, if you read the links, is that obesity rates in general are on the increase. If someone burns more calories than they take in, they're going to lose weight. If they take in more calories than they burn, they gain weight.

Personally, I think much of the increase in obesity can be accounted for by the ubiquitousness of high-calorie fast food outlets combined with sedentary lifestyles.

[BiggJawn]

55. I'd like to see that 9-y-o on a bicycle.

A REAL bicycle, not one of those cast-iron pepto-pink white-tyred toys...

Wish the hell i'd listened to what Dr.Paul Dudley White was saying when i was younger...

[MadHound]

93. Please, please, tell this girl's parents to get her off that damn Atkins

NOW! It will kill her literally. There have been a couple of cases of teens and preteens who died because they were on the Atkins diet, and weren't getting enough potassium and had their electrolyte balance completly out of whack. Along with that, what, do they want this poor girl's veins clogged with cholesterol by the time she is fifteen! Sheesh, Atkins at nine, that's ludicrous. Give the girl a well balanced diet, and don't let her spend all of her time indoors and she'll be fine!

That is just too sad.

[TrogL]

110. Have you seen the daughter??

Before you jump to conclusions, I have seen some nine year olds who were grotesquely fat - I'm talking 50-60 pounds overweight, outdoors.

Atkins has one thing going for it. It actually works.

[oldcoot]

107. Poor kid

What does daddy have planned for her 16th birthday, diet pills or liposuction? I also have to wonder why he is so obsessed with this poor girl's weight. Did a doctor tell him that she needed to lose weight (please tell me that he took her to a doctor before starting this diet) or is he embarrassed by the idea of having a fat daughter? If he really is that worried about his daughter, he should get her involved in sports. Not only would she get some exercise, but she would also get some positive reinforcement from other adults.

I also wonder if he would be this worried about a son gaining weight. I agree that society does place more pressure on women and girls to lose weight. I really hope that the girl comes out of this okay.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

34. Yup, she's a future anorexic

I agree though that a lot of the people who are intolerant and disgusted by fat people are afraid of losing control themselves over food, cigarettes, alocohol etc. This kind of intolerance taken to its extreme breeds good little fascists.

[CO Liberal]

61. What That Father Is Doing Borders on Child Abuse (IMHO)

As someone who has been active in the Size Acceptance movement for amny years, I know the prejudices society has against fat people. I see the stares when I walk down the street with my wife - she's over 300 pounds and I love every ounce of her.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

23. You gotta stay out of GD!!

Here in the lounge, usually, it's the ones that don't eat that get the flack. Most of the guys here like a little meat on their girls.
Duckie

[ikojo]

24. Please introduce me to such men.

I was on the bus about a year or so ago and the bus driver was commenting on the waif thin white females jogging in my neighborhood.
He told me that even a dog likes a little meat on it's bone.

[Bunny]

26. Yeah it's pretty sad over there.

Absolutely no lenience given for disease, emotional problems, aging, etc. If you're fat it is ALL your fault! If you'd quit stuffing your fat face, you wouldn't have this problem! If you'd only exercise, AS MUCH AS IT WOULD TAKE, you would be so much more attractive to us THIN people!

Wonder if they'd say the same thing about mental illness, homosexuality, alcoholism, drug abuse, cancer, etc.? :(

[ikojo]

28. Ten or twenty years ago they would have said

the same thing about homosexuality. Heck they may say it in private but know better than to say it on a supposedly liberal message board because they know they could be banned for such thoughts.

Many people, "liberals" included, believe that those who have AIDS deserve it because of behavior. Of course, I would assume these people have never seen anyone die of AIDS. It is not pretty.

[Bunny]

30. You are so right about the homosexuality thing.

If those darn old gays would just quit screwing each other, and start screwing wimmen, they wouldn't get that AIDS!! And then us morally superior, thin, mentally sane, unaddicted people would find them so much more pleasant to look at!

[rbnyc]

29. I agree with you.

I've posted about this many times. It's sad.

[scarlet_owl]

32. Yeah, I just got back from that discussion.

Some of these people just make me sick. It is so easy to judge when you aren't the one who is fat. They are making it sound like we fat folks want to be fat and we can't be skinny (better) like them because we're weak.

[Bunny]

33. Well we're all looking for ways to show that we're morally

superior to SOMEBODY. Fat folks might just well be the last acceptable prejudice.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

35. I was never overweight until a few years ago but would NEVER

talk about ANYONE the way the folks over in GD speak about fat people. My parents taught me that prejudice in any form is poisonous. Never judge anyone until you walk a day in their shoes.

[Nevernose]

36. It's the same folks who think that drug addicts are weak-willed

What's that comedian say? Something like: "If alcoholism is a disease, then how come it's the only disease that people can get mad at you for having? When was the last time you heard someone say 'the selfish bastard got stomache cancer, what a piece of shit!"

[Bunny]

37. And what's sad is that a couple of people, who I otherwise respected,

have surprised and disappointed me with their willful obtuseness. Sigh.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

38. Yes, bunnyj, folks whose posts I enjoyed I now look at differently

it's a shame.

[SiobhanClancy]

46. True...

reminds me of the baseball playoffs:(

[dawn]

39. I think they should look in the mirror...at their whole self

They should do that prior to judging others. That makes me sick.

Some people are bigger than others. What's the big deal? Hell, I'm made to think I'm fat as a woman who wears a size 8. That is so wrong.

I never want to be a size two, and lose my figure. I'd rather die that look like a freak on a stick. If I'm fat, than so be it.

[philosophie_en_rose]

40. I don't understand the anger.

I don't understand why some of the posts are so aggressively insulting and invasive into the lives of other people.

The lack of compassion is truly disturbing. It seems to me that people own their bodies. Even if I believed that people choose their weight (which I don't), how can it matter to anyone else? Before someone pipes up about "concern," I'd like to ask how effective it is to ridicule someone into change. Especially when the real motivation is not benevolent.

Those threads are poison. I am embarassed for DU.

[Laszlo_Hollyfeld]

41. When I last popped in here a few months back

an amazingly large number of folks hereabouts were in the process of saying some surprisingly cruel and catty things about skinny women.

Maybe it's not just being overweight that seems okay to kick around. Maybe it's size in general.

Doesn't seem right. There's just too much contempt for everyone who's different these days.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

44. in the fatist's narrow mind,

the fat person is lazy/weak/disgusting and they are superior because they are thin. In many cases, I'm sure their relationship with food is less than healthy. All the evidence that points to factors other overeating as the cause of obesity fall on deaf ears. I'm not saying that some obesity isn't caused by overeating; there is not enough research done into the true causes of incurable obesity.

Of course, since the multi-million dollar drug and diet industries try to provide quick fixes for the overweight, I'm sure they discourage research into food allergies and other factors that may be the underlying cause. Who knows.

[Iverson]

45. partly true

I think that there are several acceptable prejudices here. Prejudice against fat people is only one of them.

To feel disgust is consistent with the egalitarian spirit that as progressives we supposedly endorse.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

47. And the Southern prejudice, the New England prejudice

I guess it's a part of the human psyche to fear/loathe things that are different. I hold progressives to a higher standard. Unfortunately, many have fallen short.

[Iverson]

48. It's a rite of passage.

Realizing that many of your friends and allies are outrageously flawed, I mean.

Keep fighting the good fight.

[mikehiggins]

49. Hey, sometimes I'm fat, sometimes I'm really fat, sometimes I even

make myself sick but if I make some of these assholes sick, I feel a whole lot better about it.

I'm in terrible shape and I love chocolate cake. I don't even try to excuse myself. If someone doesn't like the way I look, why don't they just put their eyes out with chopsticks or something? I've got some left over from the last buffet I went to, on the way to Red Lobster and coming home from Outback with a couple of orders of cheese fries.

Off hand I'd say I'm about a hundred pounds overweight, and have been fat for most of my life. I spent thirty six years in construction work and never missed a day of work that I didn't want to miss, and the only time I had heart trouble was when a really thin and athletic guy lost track of his truck and sideswiped my big black Oldsmobile.

Wound up with atrial fibrillation all of a sudden. Go figure.

I do wish that some seats were wider, but I don't complain about that.

As for those who are esthetically challenged by my unappealing silhouette, it worked for Hitchcock didn't it?

I prefer to think of my fat being more honest, since its out there in the open instead of concealed within my skull like some of the anti-fat morons who've posted on this subject.

[Sugarbleus]

50. Well, I would be a Queen if...

I lived in the far north with the lovely Eskimo peoples as I've got enough fat on me to keep the whole village warm. :cry:

Hey, I DESPISE being heavy. It hurts, it's humiliating, it's isolating, and it's almost impossible for many to lose it once it becomes theirs to own. I also happen to be disabled.
Matter of fact, I was just discussing obesity with a friend where I was stating that IF we had real concern for people in medical trouble, we as a nation should institute universal health care or some facsimile thereof wherein folks like me could go to a FREE or very inexpensive clinic/spa and have QUALITY, effective treatment without the humilitation, and with positive reinforcements (like a massage/spa treatment without anyone gagging) in order to shed the weight. Same idea holds true for smokers. Sometimes people can't do things all alone. 'No man/woman is an island'

[Kanary]

116. Your idea of treatment is right on!

I nominate you for Secretary of Health! :toast:

Obviously, if we wanted to lose the Puritan "ethic" (what's ethical about it, asks I?), and put the emphasis on health, we would do exactly what you are proposing. Simple as that. But, we are a society of punishment.

My Czech friend tells me about having surgery for a serious ulcer when he was living in the then Czechoslovakia. He was kept in the hospital for a decent amount of time, then moved to a spa in the mountains to recuperate. None of this sending him home in extreme pain, and before he could function. Then inundating him with stressful problems with insurance, etc. No, they were human enough to realize that people needed to recuperate in a low-stress environment.

Imagine that...... life could actually be pleasant.

Same with weight loss, or any other problem. We could actually treat each other well.

Imagine.

Kanary

[curse10]

51. It's not just here

it's everywhere. I'm a thin person, but I know what my mom has to go through. She's overweight and battles it everyday. It's really sad that supposed "liberal" people would engage in such bigotry.

[Missy Vixen]

54. Thanks for starting this thread, Rational Rose

>It's the same sense of superiority that racists and sexists justify their attacks on those who are different. I'm disgusted.<

RR, I'm with you.

I think I'll stay in the lounge for awhile. It's much friendlier here. I'm doing the holiday baking tonight, and DH's gone to bed, so let's all kick our shoes off and relax!

Julie

[sleipnir]

56. No, I hear your pain...it's no fun benig ridiculed

I've got a very fast metabolism, so I'm really skinny (for a 24 year old guy) and everyone always remarks, "Hey, why don't you gain some weight?" or "Do you ever eat" (Yes, constantly) I really wish I could gain about 25 pounds, but I've come to accept the fact that until my metabolism slows down, I'm screwed at somewhere under $1.30. It's the complete opposite for me, but trust me, it can hurt just as much, and there's also a lot of negativity that comes my way too. It's only been in the last 2 years that I've been able to accept my figure for what it is. Don't worry, not everyone thinks that way, it just takes the old walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

[Blade]

57. Although I have nothing against overweight people...

I have to say I am not attracted to them one bit. I really do think a lot of them can control their weight, and for many reasons, they don't. We here in the U.S. have fast food, soda(pop), sodium, and other empty calorie foods to blame for the rise in the obesity population. Christ, I was watching Maury Povitch the other day, and they had a show where three year olds were 97 pounds! The parents whined about that, but they fed the kid every god damn bad food under the sun, such as: McDonald's, cookies, candy, ice cream, pop, etc....and they wondered why the kid was at a weight of one-hundred fucking pounds. :eyes: I think that obesity is a disease and we need to stop it before the life expectancy goes down below 50. A lot of us (including me) need to stop drinking pop, slow down on the fast foods, and exercise every day (or every other day.)

I read a statistic that most of the overweight gain their weight from pop. I think that's the main thing we all need to get rid of from our diet. On the radio the other day, the local news station said that if a person were to cut pop from his/her diet completely, they would lose 35 lbs. in one year. I think after Christmas, I'm gonna cut out pop completely from my diet.

[BiggJawn]

63. Blade, I'm not asking you to bed me, just don't rag on me....

Until you hear my story.

Veggies. lean pork. chicken, no hide. soy milk. olive oil. Asian food when we go out to eat. curry. whole-grain bread. hummus. pita. olives. garlic. fake soy-meat.

where's the "junk"?

I don't turn you on, fine. You're prolly not my type, either....:-)

I think it's time to realize that keeping our kids inside in front of the Glass Tit is more dangerous than some "predator" like you see all the time on the chick channel...Uh...I mean "Lifetime" would be.

But then, the BFEE would be perfectly happy if each generation of the Serf Class pooped out at 50. More low-pay jobs for the next batch of grist...

[ming]

215. Pop alone won't do it...

...unless you drink one heck of a lot of soda. I am in the 'morbidly obese' category. I have virtually cut every high caloric food out of my diet, including soda. In fact, it has been three or four months since I last had any soda -- a 12oz. can. It has been over two years since I last ate at any fast food place and when I do eat out (not very often these days) I am likely as not to get the smallest portions possible. All in all I try to restrict myself to under 1200 calories per day. Obviously, some days I am more successful than others, but for the most part I am able to do this.

Yet I am still well over 400lbs. My weight has been known to swing up or down by as much as 60lbs. within a month's time span. I know this because I get weighed regularly at the local hospital. Believe me, there is a big (excuse the difference) between the average person who has extra pounds due to overeating and the chronically obese who even in the face of restrictive calorie diets are unable to keep the weight off. For those of us who fall in this category, it isn't will power that keeps us from losing the weight, because we do lose the weight. However, it always seems to come back.

Yeah, we all eat too much these days, obese and nonobese alike. Yeah, most of us don't get the exercise we need either. However, there is no simple cause of obesity. It is a multi-faceted disease with biological, behavioral and environmental factors all playing a role.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

217. Welcome to DU!

Thank you for clarifying some points for us, and good luck in your fight.

[Bertha Venation]

58. I AM FAT.

At this link are a couple of photos of yours truly. Satisfy your morbid curiosity: go on. Stare at a fat woman. Get it out of your systems. http://home.earthlink.net/~notheidi63/id4.html

Now:

My obesity is no one else's god damned business. It is between me and whomever I give the right to say anything about it.

You don't have the right to know why I am obese. You don't have the right to know whether I diet to lose weight or whether I exercise. You don't have the right to ask me my weight or what size I wear. If you're seated next to me on a plane, you will find that it is not the miserable flight you thought it was going to be, so don't give me your attitudinal sighs.

You god damned well don't have the right to tax me per pound! What will you do, weigh me when I buy groceries? Require that I weigh in at the county recorder's office once a month? How about just a special lane at the truck-weigh station? They can have three lanes: "Empty," "Loaded," and "XXL."

Maybe we can legislate all kinds of incentives and punishments. Throw me a public ceremony when I get below a certain threshold. Have a "Kim tips the scales again, film at eleven" report when I exceed my maximum allowable poundage. Why not throw me in a concentration camp? Hey, great idea! Remember all those pictures of people in Nazi camps! By god, that's the answer!

Back the hell off of fat people! You do not know who I am or where I have come from, and you do not have the right to tell me how to live my life.

[Nevernose]

59. Golly, you really ARE fat! (you can be in my club)

And wearing a really nifty hat, too. Where'd you get it?

This had me laughing my ass off:
You god damned well don't have the right to tax me per pound! What will you do, weigh me when I buy groceries? Require that I weigh in at the county recorder's office once a month? How about just a special lane at the truck-weigh station? They can have three lanes: "Empty," "Loaded," and "XXL."

[Bertha Venation]

60. Hat: Cherokee, NC

Glad to have made you laugh. Don't you know how jolly we all are?

[Nevernose]

64. STOP IT! I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE!

My side is hurting...

[Bertha Venation]

65. that's the best kind of pain, my friend....

the only good pain. ;)

[scarlet_owl]

62. Those are some cute kitties!

[Bertha Venation]

66. you realize that Richard's a member of the club, don't you?

I swear that cat manufactures bricks from his food but does not sh*t them....

[scarlet_owl]

92. Heh Heh. Sounds like my cat!

She's tubby just like her mom, but that makes her extra-snuggly (like me, too!).

[Kathy in Cambridge]

68. What sweet kitties!

I have two boys myself. ;-)

[Sugarbleus]

70. Wooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooo Bertha!!!!

You go girlfriend!!

'Get the beam outta your own eye before you try to remove the mote from mine...'

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

74. You are beautiful. Everyone's body is their own little art piece

:thumbsup: And you have that clean look on your face that comes from not living a life filled with hatred...all the dieting and healthy eating in the WORLD cannot create that.


Oh..and hello to my friend Argumentus up there! :hi:

[Bertha Venation]

78. what a nice thing to say, NSMA

My goodness... thank you. Hatred kills -- why hate? :shrug: It ain't worth it.

[Skittles]

76. Bertha

you look fine to me :D

What's up with that black and white cat? He's taking it really easy there, huh? :D

[Bertha Venation]

77. Skittles, that's Toby.

His mama was feral, and if a feral cat can pass on its wild characteristics, Toby got them. He will not show himself to houseguests, whether they're there for an hour or a week.

But when it's just us, he is the sweetest, funniest, most relaxed cat on the planet.

TY for your kind words. I think I look fine, too.

[Rainbowreflect]

88. Bertha, I think you are beautiful.

I have been overweight most of my adult life. Most of my family is over weight. In the last year I have lost over 65lbs on Weight Watchers. While I'm thrilled with the weight I lost, the greatest thing is all the wonderful people that I've made friends with. All different sizes & shapes. Some will lose the weight they want to, some will not. But how much they weigh makes no difference to who they are and how much richer they make my life.

[Bertha Venation]

103. shucks

Beauty is within, RR. Dig your post & good on you for such a change. Seems you're happy no matter what. :7

[diamondsoul]

91. TELL'EM, Bertha! n/t

[Kanary]

117. You said it, Bertha!

And what you have said applies to *everything* about people! Nobody has the right to comment about *anything* personal. WE are such a critical, judgmental society, and we hurt each other everyday and think nothing of it.

We all need to learn more acceptance, and more caring.

Putting people on the defensive is just plain UGLY.

Kanary

[TOhioLiberal]

133. Oh Yeah...

<snip>
You don't have the right to know why I am obese. You don't have the right to know whether I diet to lose weight or whether I exercise. You don't have the right to ask me my weight or what size I wear. If you're seated next to me on a plane, you will find that it is not the miserable flight you thought it was going to be, so don't give me your attitudinal sighs.

All I have to say is...AMEN and :yourock: I guess all of us need to stick together.

Your Friend,
Trekkerlass

[FDRrocks]

67. I just don't think its healthy...

(disclaimer: drunken post)

you can tell me I descriminate or what. I don't really care. I do not think it is healthy. When I speak of fat I don't think 10-60 pounds overweight. I'm very attracted to women who are as heavy as I previously mentioned, due to thier personality or characteristics. When I say fat... I mean people who have problems walking up a set of stairs, people who huff from walking down an aisle. That bothers me. If a 500 pound person could walk up 10 steps without huffing, I'd be chill. If they can't, I'd say they are unhealthy.

There is no reason for being overweight, imo. I don't dislike or disgard people who are. I am attracted to people who are overweight. I was overweight. I just started walking and eating healthy food. It is grand. I tell everyone I see who asks me how I lost the weight that excercise pays off in spades. The problem with me is people who are severely overweight and unhealthy. Not b/c they are unattractive to look at, but b/c they are willingly killing themselves.

No one will convince me that humans were supposed to house fat. You do not see that many undomesticated animals who are overweight. If humans lived by the natural order we would be svelt. As it is, you don't have to walk to a place, you can drive. You don't have to catch food, you can buy it... at places you drive to and look for a close parking spot at.

I don't blame the person, I blame the consumerist society. And that is only in the extreme cases I mentioned. I would support a tax on highly fatty food, just b/c healthy food is so expensive.

[Bertha Venation]

73. Okay. Then I have the perfect answer for you, drunken post or not:

DON'T

BE

FAT.

See how easy that is?

MY health is none of your concern.

[FDRrocks]

129. Well would it be easier to say...

You're health concerns me, b/c I love you as a human, and I care about you?

[Bertha Venation]

188. Not if you're a stranger or a co-worker

or someone on a message board.

[diamondsoul]

82. You're wrong.

It's called metabolism, and it can be screwed up by so many things it's downright frightening.

Dieting is completely the WRONG response to obesity by itself as it only exacerbates the metabolism changes. Illnesses, dietary changes, activity changes, simple changes in when and how often you eat can change the whole metabolism response.

Fat is the human body's mechanism for dealing with fast or famine. If your body doesn't get fed often enough, gets the wrong types of foods, or doesn't burn off the food, you gain weight, period. If you have to go hungry for a period of time your fat stores will keep you alive, that's the natural function.

Additionally in women of child-bearing ages, the fat stores around the midsection are naturally meant to protect the fetus in the womb and to help the woman's body accomodate the needs of the developing fetus. Basically YES human beings were designed to carry "fat" under specific conditions.

Unfortunately medical conditions create the same bodily responses as fasting or famine and create fat stores where they are detrimental to the person instead of helpful. Drunken or no, learn a bit about metabolism before saying thngs like you have above, please.

[Kanary]

123. You summed up yourself at the beginning of your post

"I don't really care".

That says it all.

Thanks for your honesty.

Kanary

[FDRrocks]

130. I do care about the personality

I do not care about the appearance. I do care about the health, to clairify. I weighed almost 300 and came down to 160 via exercise. I feel much better and at much less a health risk. I would like to spread my feeling to others. It feels good. If that helps you understand. I am getting the impression that some people who are overweight are just very sensitive about it. That is all due to the fact that I tried to make my original post as inoffensive as possible, cause I do not judge overweight people for thier weight. I can respect that sensetivity about weight, I was sensitive too! I just want to say, it does not have to be that way. And it feels really good to excercise.

[Kanary]

187. Of course people are sensitive! That's a *GOOD* thing

Being sensitive is what makes us different from the right wing.

So, we have to care about each other, and how we affect each other. That means not saying INSENSITIVE things to each other.

It means learning to accept people as they are, and dropping the critical stance towards others.

Kanary

[OhioStateProgressive]

145. i just don't think people have an inherent right to judge others

or even have opinions of other people...it is all part of our "labelling" society...construct upon construct and very little true discourse

to make even the slightest qualitative judgement of another by their appearance or weight is terribly superficial

[classics]

69. The mods really should lock down those threads.

Or at least the second one.

They serve no purpose at all except to let a few biggots, a couple even posting under thier multiple accounts, beat the drum of hate and division here at DU.

[Sugarbleus]

71. Good point classic but..

this does help to uncover what some people are thinking (right or wrong), even inside their same party et al. If we don't discuss stuff, nothing gets resolved. But, enough might be enough already.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

72. The second thread was an attempt by one of the bigots

to start a real flame war.

I had not idea there were multiple account posters...

Yes, the flame wars only serve to divide DU. But honestly, if these people are that prejudiced and non-progressive, they really don't belong here.

[fortyfeetunder]

83. No, don't lock the threads

Because what we see in DU GD is just a sample of the crap being discussed out in the real world.

I am observed when Raygun took office in 1981, tolerance for differences (racial, sexual, religious, physical, gender) started to unravel. And considering the DU demographics, we have a generation that grew up under those social mores, along with the sheeple that bought into the concept.

Locking the threads only means it won't be discussed on DU. But you know good and well it IS being discussed elsewhere.

[Skittles]

75. you are absolutely correct, Rose

it is very disturbing to read a DUer say they find obese people "offensive". Great compassion there. :puke:

[dawn]

79. Yeah, I was shocked, too.

As a newbie, I couldn't believe what I was reading on a progressive forum. I thought maybe this was the Free Republic site you guys all talk about!

[Bertha Venation]

80. welcome to DU, dawn

:hi:

[diamondsoul]

81. Wow! Wierd coincidences all over DU

for me today! I posted a response to a comment about Rush Limbaugh, and I started to type the word "fat" as part of my insulting description. It hit me how calling him fat as an insult was no better than much of the crap he spews that makes me so angry, so I stopped myself.

It also made me think of this wonderful young woman I knew in High School who was humiliated by a school teacher in front of our entire school band. I remember just how sickened and infuriated that such a beautiful person could be treated so badly because she happened to be bigger than some. She was and IS a beautiful person, and I always thought she was attractive to look at as well.

I hate hypocrisy and I really hate it most in myself. I refuse to fall victim to acceptable prejudice and bigotry just because it's popular.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

84. You are such a contribution to DU..thanks for this post

[diamondsoul]

89. Thanks NSMA!

*blushing bright crimson*

I'm just me, and I know I'm nowhere near perfect. I suppose there are just some things I know are plain wrong and I draw the line there for myself and my kids.

I was really pissed at myself for even considering typing that word into the post. That's why it was so coincidental for me to wander over here and see this thread. Kind of an affirmation that I caught my own shortcoming before I hurt someone, however unintentional it might have been.

I'm cranky as hell at the moment, but knowing I'm not the only one who gets disgusted by people, and even my own flaws, helps.

I also thought of my Step-mom who had such trouble controlling her weight she resorted to the stomach stapling a year ago. She's a large-framed woman so she really wasn't vastly over her ideal weight but she suffered chest pains a lot and it scared the hell out of her. (my personal take is she just ran herself ragged no matter her weight! She was about 4 times my size and about 10 times more active than me! LOL)

Point is, she isn't "fat" by choice and she definitely isn't "ugly" to look at. She happens to have a larger frame than most women our age (and yes we're just a year apart in age.), and because of that she's not seen as the perfect little centerfold woman. My response is people are not all rail thin with perky breasts or rear-ends. People are not all bike riding or sports fanatics, and without the sedentary people like the "computer geeks" we wouldn't have DU today.

Bottom line? Conformism sucks in a BIG way!

[jonnyblitz]

90. I had a similiar occurence for myself and my own hypocricy

I had this bad habit of labeling all supporters of a particular candidate in a certain unflattering light and then when somebody with much more noteriety and pull here at DU did the same about the candidate I am leaning towards I didn't like it one bit. I realized I had been doing the same thing. I know this is off topic from the overweight issue but your post made me think of it. :hi:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

111. No, I think it is a common human flaw

but I think that prejudice against a particular group on the margins of society is a lot uglier and revealing of the bigot's true neuroses than finding a certain candidate's supporters annoying. On DU, that's a given! ;-)

[Selwynn]

120. You are one of the good people

[SammyWinstonJack]

85. The comment about overweight people being unpleasant

too look at, was when I stopped reading. A very rude comment! Wonder if that poster ever heard of Karma?

[private_ryan]

122. "overweight people being unpleasant too look at"

if he thinks that, why it is bad or rude? Most of us agree that anorexics are unpleasant to look at too. Do we have to say that fat people are pleasant to look at, just to be politically correct?

[OhioStateProgressive]

147. WTF?

if people have a preconceived notion of beauty in their head, then they need to cleanse that narrowminded construct from themselves, and see the world for what it is, not what they've been told

[private_ryan]

182. narrowminded?

send us to re-education camps Komisar OhioStateProgressive for not thingking that obese people aren't beatiful.

[OhioStateProgressive]

192. your definition of beauty is small and narrow

re-education?

how about a proper one the first time

people are people....you may find some attractive, some you may not

but never should you find people unnattractive

it is human to see someone and think that person is attractive...it is judgemental to look at someone and say they aren't

and to use weight as a qualifier of how you determine beauty is just wrong

[beyurslf]

86. Well if everyone were just on the Atkins diet like me....

j/k

I agree. Fat is the last acceptable hate.

[amazona]

87. it isn't acceptable

A lot of folks don't accept this prejudice for a variety of reasons. I just read one of the threads where it seemed you and some others were unfairly attacked, and I was amazed at some of the ignorance displayed by some of the attackers. I'm amazed that there are still people who believe 1960s "science" when it comes to weight. If all it took was diet and exercise to lose weight, my partner wouldn't be fat. If all it took was eating a lot to gain weight, my former partner wouldn't have been so underweight that he was denied entrance into the Navy, despite his high scores on the test, and despite the help of a doctor trying to help him gain weight. If it was all about food, my friend wouldn't have gained 100 pounds from taking a prescribed drug, Prozac. Another friend -- a formerly slim dancer and cheerleader -- wouldn't have gained 50 pounds by the steroids required for his cancer treatment.

We don't know why people get fat or why certain chemicals (that can be life or sanity saving) cause weight gain. We don't know what is causing this huge explosion of obese people in the U.S. and, now, in England. The more we think we do know, when we don't know, the more we'll be blaming each other instead of looking for solutions.

I know one thing...I've seen too many people put being skinny ahead of their health. I will never know if my grandmother's eating disorder contributed to her dementia. A friend does know that his father's being underweight contributed to his quick death (within months) of his cancer diagnosis; the doctor told him flat-out that he less chance of survival because he had no weight to lose during chemotherapy. And we probably all know young women who have severely damaged their hearts or even died because of eating disorders.

My friend with the cancer steroids-caused weight gain was suicidal as a result of his weight gain. It played on his self image. I'm very disturbed by that. Instead of celebrating his remission, he became angry that he was no longer slim and he shut himself away from his old friends.

I am confident that the hysterical fear of fat does far more harm and killing than obesity itself ever does.

[Missy Vixen]

95. Isn't this the truth?

>I am confident that the hysterical fear of fat does far more harm and killing than obesity itself ever does.<

Amazona, thank you so much for the above.

We're amazed at those around us who have made it clear that they'd rather be dead than be fat. Most are just disappointed that they no longer look like they did at 21, but some are determined to regain their former glory, no matter what it takes.

We knew a woman who ended up in the emergency room with heart palpitations due to Redux. She told us that she'd simply get it sent from out of the country when it was taken off the market in the USA.

The next-door-neighbor eats nothing but Lean Cuisine. Ever.

We knew a guy whose preteen soccer-playing daughter was so damaged by her mother's eating disorders that she stopped eating, too. He was confronted by his therapist fiancee; the fiancee told him that Abby needed help. His response was to dump her. "At least she won't get fat". We've often wondered what happened to them.

The people we really enjoy, though, are those who covertly observe every morsel that goes into our mouths, and give the disapproving nose wrinkle or eye roll whenever it's anything but what they deem healthy or appropriate. I also enjoy the comments: "Man, I'd better watch it, these pants don't fit like they used to!" "If I ate that, I'd weigh 300 pounds!"

Whatever.

Julie

[ddye]

94. What about predjudice against Southerners?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=573092

[Missy Vixen]

96. Oh, okay

>"What about predjudice against Southerners?"<

Do you see my sign-on name in that thread?

Julie

[ddye]

97. Julie,

I'm new here, what do you mean? If I misunderstood, or didn't see something, my apologies.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

98. Also not acceptable

and for the record, it goes both ways. I've been on the receiving end of anti-Yankee sentiment-and I'm a nice Yankee! :-)

[Lindsay]

99. Thanks for starting this thread,

Rational Rose.

I have been so perplexed about the recent spate of anti-obesity stories in the news. Why is it that overweight people have become a new criminal class? Whose money is behind this? The diet industry? (I read somewhere that they've funded most of the studies proving that fat is evil.)

I have been overweight most of my life. (So was my dad.) The only times I got thin were (1) when I was very sick with measles as a child, (2) when I was taking (then-legal) diet pills (speed...whee!), and (3) when I exercised (stationary bike) twice a day, an hour each morning and evening, seven days a week.

I don't eat junk food. I sometimes eat only one small meal a day...usually I eat two. And I mean small. Two slices of toast for one meal, a piece of roasted chicken or a baked potato or a plate of veggies for another, for example. And I walk everywhere...don't even own a car. I drink water, or unsweetened coffee or tea...no soda unless it's seltzer. Couldn't tell you when I last bought a candy bar.

So now that I'm living in hill country and walking, I am slowly losing a bit of weight. Do I get credit for working at it?

For the record, my health care hasn't cost anybody any money. Ever. I haven't been really sick with anything since I had a bad case of the flu...about 30 years ago. I've got minor aches and pains that go with aging (I'm 57), but nothing that an occasional aspirin won't ease. So how am I The Enemy?

I do think that individuals who are being very judgmental have other issues...otherwise, there's no reason to hate on people that way simply for the way they look, and to be so closed-minded about it. I feel sorry for their friends and families. And I hope somehow they will be moved to open their minds.

Thanks for giving me a chance to get some of this off my (ample) chest.

P.S. Bertha Venation, finally I have a chance to tell you I absolutely LOVE your name!!!

[Bertha Venation]

102. Welcome to DU

:hi: Glad you like the name. Thank Harvey Fierstien.

Speaking of ample chest... do your, uh, bosoms get fed more than you do? heheh

[VelmaD]

100. Just remember

all the "thin" or "normal" sized people who post the nasty comments about "fat" people - we have only their word to go on that they aren't "fat" too. Most people underestimate their actual weight. And if they're on the net while telling other people to stop being so sedentary...all I have to say is "Hello kettle, I'm the pot and you're black."

[Forkboy]

101. Hardly the last prejudice here

But I agree that threads like can be pretty sad.

[WindRavenX]

104. I wish people would realize the obvious

Hatred, no matter what it is against, is HATRED and it is WRONG. I don't care WHAT rationale you have for your hatred- IT'S HATRED AND IT'S WRONG.
People, where's the love? Jesus H Christ, sometimes I wonder about people. We're supposed to be the party of acceptance of people's minds, but oh look, we're back to being shallow assholes because we judge people by what they look like :eyes:
Hatred is hatred, and it's going to kill all of us.

[Iverson]

106. a note to people of all weights

I hope that everyone who wants it has a merry Christmas. This wish is consistent across body weights, shapes, metabolisms, and attitudes toward food.

Further, this wish does not vary with age, religious preference, skin color, nationality or income. This merry Christmas applies equally to people of different educational levels, musical tastes, literary preferences, disabilities, allergies, sexual preference, and general levels of health.

This wish extends to all political preferences (with the proviso that people to the right of center get an additional wish to wise up).

Let's hope that in 2004 we can bring ourselves to be civil to fat people, Greens, atheists, black people, brown people, gays and lesbians, classical music listeners, country music listeners, urologists, and all other unmentioned groups.

Let's hope that in 2004 we will not be so easily distractible from relevant questions, the better that we might pull together.

And to all a good night.

:grouphug:

[kixot]

108. Just shut up and go back to your Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey, tubby.

just kidding

[Paragon]

109. Fat bottomed girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round.

I love ya. :loveya:

[Lady Freedom]

112. I knew that there was something about you I liked!

;)

[nini]

115. I'm overweight AND Catholic...

Talk about a double wammy around here. :evilgrin:

[solinvictus]

118. Obesity and America

Well, look at the damned advertisements. Every other commercial on television is for food or Rx drugs. The average meal served in a restaurant is oversized for portions and is laden with sodium and fat. Sodas, which are really liquid candy, are now a staple drink rather than an occasional indulgence. They're nothing but empty sugar and a ticket to diabetes and obesity.

Now, aesthetically, I prefer my women on the large side and have for years. I have no problems with women who are the 14-24 size range and find it sensual. I hate the impossibly thin image that's promoted as the norm. A woman with the physique of an adolescent boy has zero sex appeal for me, but that's the image promoted by the fashion industry. My wife got onto me for drooling over the Lane Bryant fashion show on the internet.

[Selwynn]

119. Yeah my mom has a condition - has nothing to do with eating too much...

or low self esteem, or lack of self control, or laziness, or glutony or anything else. It makes me furious when some people are such unbelievable idiots.

[private_ryan]

121. first

I wasn't the one making the comments. But, in most cases (other than a medical condition or pills you need to take) your weight can be controlled. I know the metabolism varies from person to person, but the weight can be kept in check.

People with slow metabolism have to work harder at it of course, but that's life. Exercise, stop going to Dunkin Donuts, Burger King, Pizza Hut etc, walk to places nearby, read a book about nutrition /exercise, join a gym and you'll be fine.

I have ZERO empathy for someone who eats french fries or ice cream while watching TV and then wonders why he or she gains weight. Oh, yes I know, no fat person does this, the weight is magically added by itself. If you are disabled, or the pills you're taking are causing it, it's a different story...

[Selwynn]

124. It's not about your "empathy."

It's about a discriminating or hateful attitude toward other people, who happen to come in all shapes and sizes. That's wrong. You shouldn't really have to do a mental evaluation about the size of another person and whether or not you feel that size is justified or not before you decide to treat them with the dignity they deserve and the respect and kindness they deserve.

And that is the issue here.

[private_ryan]

125. "who happen to come"

more likely who happen to become...the word hate is being used broadly here, the nazis hated the jews and disliking a fat person is now considered hate by you. Also respect and kindness is not automatically granted to everyone, we respect certain people more than others. It's a fact of life.

would you "dislike" someone who didn't shower for weeks, even though he could? Some would correctly say that most fat people are fat because of their lifestyle choices (poor diet, not enough or zero exercise)

on edit: discriminating is illegal but if you think that appearance and presentation doesn't matter in job interviews you're a fool. Better looking guys and girls get the job if other things are close equal. They are not going to tell you but you know...

[Selwynn]

199. I say again -- and listen carefully this time.

You shouldn't really have to do a mental evaluation about the size of another person and whether or not you feel that size is justified or not before you decide to treat them with the dignity they deserve and the respect and kindness they deserve.

The problem with you is that you have the same attitude about weight that the right wing has about the poor. Why should I be sensitive to the plight of the poor or treat the poor with dignity and respect as my brothers and sisters? Some would correctly say that most poor people are poor because of their lifestyle choices (lazy, bad money managers).

The problem with that attitude is that it is a complete and total lie, as well as utterly inappropriate. For one thing, its arrogance and offensive when I hear some rich republican passing judgment on the life of a poorer person that he doesn't know one damn thing about. And that attitude doesn't excuse the rich man from fair and decent treatment of a poorer person, including basic respect.

But when it comes to people you feel are overweight suddenly its perfectly okay for you to act like a jackass. Things we would be mortally offended to hear said by some rich-right winger about the poor you have no problem saying about people who are overweight.

I'm carrying probably 30 or so more pounds than I should. Certainly not that bad, but still overweight. But what I know about the particular circumstances of my life and situation right now is that I'm not carrying 30 or so more pounds because I'm a lazy bastard or engaged in some horrible lifestyle. Right now I'm doing the best I can do with resources I have. And the point is, its not for YOU to judge that.

You can say thinks like - most people are fat because they're lazy ...oh, well accept for people with medical conditions.... oh yeah, and people with disabilities.... oh, yeah and I hadn't thought of that particular situation, so except those people too.... oh, yeah good point, you're right I can't blame people in those situations either.

Pretty soon you realize that stupid, prejudiced over-generalizations like the ones you make are pretty ridiculous, and that the bottom line is, its not your call to pass judgment over other people - no matter how they look.

By the way, I am a hiring manger for my company - I interview for positions on a regular basis. I don't give a damn about how much someone weighs. No one cares. It's ridiculous and bad for business to care about that. I had to order a special chair for one of the best contributors on my team because he is a pretty large guy. Big deal. I need people with the technical skills to do the job, I don't have time to give a good god damn about how someone looks.

More and more and more the only place the kinds of statements you are making exist is in the heads of narrow minded prejudiced people like yourself. Quit worrying about other people's weight and whether they could weigh less and just start treating them with the respect and dignity they deserve. Their size is not your problem, and you're fair treatment of them shouldn't have to be conditional on your assessment of their size.

[dawn]

211. That's not always true...

What about the cases in which an attractive female is interviewed by another female, one who is prone to jealousy of other females? The prettier girl will not get the job.

[TrogL]

126. OK, then tell me how to deal with this

My partner bitches and whines about his weight.

He claims to be on a diet that consists of eating can after can of tuna fish but he's still in and out of the fridge every half hour.

He whines about the food that I buy. The one time I bought the foods he wanted (veggies etc) they sat in the fridge 'til they rotted.

One of the great tragedies in his life is being hungry.

[eileen_d]

127. I have been both underweight and overweight

Just to echo my support for people who are willing to speak out against the "haters" - my weight is NOT anybody's business but my own!

[Maine Mary]

128. They best not take up part of MY seat on a 12 hour flight.

It sucks no matter what but having one or even 2 snoring fat people in MY SPACE was awful. I may sound harsh but that happend to me once and it sucks. I was totally unprepared for what an international flight was like so it didn't faze me at first. The guy's body literally took up half my seat and the woman on the other side was a good size too. I was squished to begin with. And then the pressurized cabin made ME grow.


Almost all the way from Dulles (DC) to Brussels, Belgium I literally had panic attacks about 1 an hour. I asked the flight attendant to move me but she couldn't. she said.

Do you know how much those godamn tickets cost? Those two people literally took my seat.


Hey, I have sympathy. More then half my family on my dad's side are obese, another quater are overweight, and on my my mom's side, I don't know... they died before I was born. But I'm told they were fat too. There are 4 girls in my family. My eldest sister is over 300 lbs. It bothers me to see her try to keep up w/her 3 boys. Lori, Sue and I fight the bulge daily. But we DO it. I don't want to hear anything about some damn "gene" Because if there is one, chances are, we have it too.

Hey, I have annoying "issues" too. Nobody is perfect. Mine is smoking. But I do it AWAY from non-smokers, I don't impose it on them. Furthermore, I PAY for my habit with unbeleivable taxes. Fat people cost us millions in healthcare costs. Why is there no help coming from them? Hmmmm :think: Time for a new bill?

[eileen_d]

131. I would say your complaint is with the airline

And I would suggest you save your "sympathy" -- it's not very convincing.

[Maine Mary]

132. I thought of that

But then I considered how I obtained my ticket. They didn't ask me how much I weighed. Should they have? Would that even be legal?

YOUR lack of understanding astounds me.

[Iverson]

138. There's a time for astonishment, and that ain't it.

Considering that the previous poster's comment rather obviously contemplated seat design and spacing arrangement, it was really foolish to pretend that the objection had something to do with interrogating people about their weight at the point of ticket purchase.

Confronting one's own prejudices is often painful, but it can be an occasion of individual growth if it's done in good faith. I recommend that.

Failure to do so is a failure of compassion. Perhaps Mr. Eder could help you with that, assuming that the mainstream hasn't made his district disappear yet.

[Bertha Venation]

159. Well said, Iverson.

Much better put than anything I've had to say on the subject. I'm too emotional.

Very well said.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

162. Smokers often smoke to stay thin

one of my only friends who smoked gave it up for 6 months and gained 30 lbs. She also works out like a maniac (we got to the gym together). She has recently started smoking again and dropped 25 of those 30 lbs.

Don't tell me that Mary's choice of addiction has nothing to do with neurotic fear of being overweight.

[Maine Mary]

222. Ei Yi Yi

You and the other 2 posters before you seem a bit defensive. Did you even read the part in my first post about how most of my family members are overweight including my much loved sister who is over 300 lbs?

You seem to be totally ignoring what my issue is entirely. It's about being considerate of others.

#1 The guy on the plane should 've bought 2 tickets instead of taking up most of my seat for a 12 hour flight. My sister rarely flys but at least is considerate enough to do that. Not only for the sake of those around her but for her own comfort too.

And #2 It is a fact that overweight people DO raise healthcare cost for everyone else. Yet they don't pay their fair share in the cost burden.

In my 3 terms as a State Rep, I've voted to raise taxes on cigarettes in as many times even though I smoke too because I'm well aware that smoking plays a negative role in our healthcare costs. Plus Maine received more then 1.2 Billion dollars in tobacco settlement money which also helps pay for our bad habit.

Oh and as far as trying to be considerate, I also voted to ban smoking in restuaraunts since apparently some smokers can't be considerate enough on their own to figure out that IT'S NOT OK to smoke around non-smokers just as that obese guy wasn't considerate enough to buy 2 tickets.

And finally smoking to stay thin? Are you outta your mind? I'd gladly put on a few pounds if it'd help me quit. Hell, if it made me obese, I'd probably still quit if I could. Buying two plane tickets instead of one is much cheaper then this monster addiction. (which I voluntarally taxed the heck out of for the sake of others).

Bottom line this and my original post is not about how "bad" overweight people are. My smoking is "bad" too if you want to look at it that way...

No. Bottom line this post and the original is about having a little CONSIDERATION for others.

[Missy Vixen]

137. Oh, boy

I read this, went on to other threads, now I'm back.

Wow, Maine Mary, you really told us, didn't you?

>It sucks no matter what but having one or even 2 snoring fat people in MY SPACE was awful.<

It's a goddamn shame that fat people are even allowed on airliners, in the mall, at the local restaurants, anywhere in public, isn't it? Maybe they should all just stay home.

I'll bet that if both of the folks sitting in either of those seats were elsewhere on the plane, you'd still be complaining because they dared to fly in the first place.

>Hey, I have sympathy.<

Is that a fact? Spare me your "sympathy", because it appears more like revulsion towards everyone and everything that doesn't fit your standard of acceptability.

>Hey, I have annoying "issues" too. Nobody is perfect. Mine is smoking. But I do it AWAY from non-smokers, I don't impose it on them.<

Some are more perfect than others, right?

The fat should just "do it AWAY" from everyone else. How dare they be seen anywhere! After all, it's just not attractive, is it?

Do your constituents know your attitudes, especially those who aren't as svelte as yourself?

>Fat people cost us millions in healthcare costs.<

Ahhhh. The "health" angle. Faux concern makes the bigotry allllll betttter. After all, none of your insurance dollars should be spent on those who shouldn't be around in the first place, right?

People get sick as they age, fat or thin. Of course, nobody ever does less than healthful things to stay thin, either, which compromises their health (and my husband and I subsidize with our insurance dollars.)

>Why is there no help coming from them? Hmmmm :think: Time for a new bill?<

We're just lucky duckies, aren't we? Living off the thin public, laughing it up in the ice cream aisle in the grocery store. It's the perfect scam! After all, it's no big deal to face people like yourself every day. We enjoy being openly insulted, marginalized, paid less, hired last, and generally shunned by those who believe that they deserve life's riches more than we do. After all, they're more attractive, and they just deserve it more, don't they?

Julie

[ming]

221. Well stated!

Thanks Julie, you said that better than I ever could.

[chefgirl]

143. Mary

I have NEVER put someone on my ignore list and I've been a DU member since the very first day. Hell, I've never even been tempted to put someone on my ignore list... until now.

I'll give you points for guts though, Mary. Must take a lot of courage to sit behind a computer screen and denigrate an entire group of people you never EVER have to say those things to personally. I'm guessing thats just about when your courage would fly out the window.
It's my strong feeling that you need to examine why your feelings toward overweight people are so intense that you actually think its acceptable to embarass yourself on a public forum just to vent your hatred.

Also, do I understand correctly? Are you really an elected official in MY state?? If so, THAT is truly frightening. I really feel sorry for all those poor, unfortunate, unsuspecting 'fat' people who you are supposed to represent.

-chef-

[OhioStateProgressive]

150. terrible

i see judgement in every line of your post

[Bertha Venation]

153. "Time for a new bill?" Are you serious?

I don't know about anyone else, but this attitude -- "let's legislate against physical characteristics" -- just fucking amazes me.

Mary, all due respect, you choose to smoke. No matter what I do, I do not choose to be fat (and I dare you to contradict me on this; you don't want to go to that place).

You cannot smoke on a flight, not because your SHS may cause some others discomfort, but because your SHS can kill. My size may make you uncomfortable in a number of ways but it damn sure won't kill you as we sit together on a flight.

Next time you're seated between two obese people on an airplane, ask one of them to switch seats so you can be on the aisle. If that doesn't work, tell them how uncomfortable you are. I suggest you try to refrain from personal attacks, but hey, be yourself.

Jesus Christ. "Time for a new bill." :eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

154. I'm going to introduce a bill that only blonds with blue eyes

can travel on airplanes. So that I will only have to look at people who look like me. :eyes:

Same premise, different era. So Mary-who I think is a brunette-will not be allowed on a plane with my Aryan brethren.

[Bertha Venation]

158. Hey, Rose, let's start our own airline!

We can call it "Eidelweiss." The FAs will wear dirndls or leiderhosen and serve strudel & steins of foaming beer. Only blue-eyed blonde fat people are allowed to fly.

Whattya think?! ;)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

160. Actually, I would like to extend that to all people

with open minds. I get the feeling that very few on this board would qualify.

I love streudel-haven't had that since my grandma died. :-(

[Bertha Venation]

172. sounds good to me

Anyone can fly with us. Maybe we'll provide parachutes for the liars.

I've never had streudel.... maybe a trip to a German neighborhood is in order.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

196. It's the airlines' duty to create seats that accomodate all size people

as it is a medium sized person is cramped in their seats and when a tall person sits behind me, I can feel their knees in my back.

[ploppy]

204. Shocking Maine Mary!

I wouldn't know it by looking at you that you are a boring whiner - not to mention mean spirited.

[oldcoot]

209. How do fat people cost you money?

We do not have socialized medicine. Most people are insured privately or have no insurance and have to pay their medical bills out of their own pockets. I suspect that most obese people either have a hard time getting insurance or have to pay more than everyone else. As another poster pointed out on a GD thread, fat people pay more for a lot of things including clothes and airline seats.

You may also want to do some research into the causes of obesity before jumping on the "fat people are evil" bandwagon. As numerous posters on various threads have suggested, we really do not know what the causes of obesity are. We assume that obesity is caused by overeating but there is credible scientific evidence that obesity may have other causes. It would not be wise to totally dismiss genetics based on personal observation.

You also might want to consider how you are going to tax obesity. You need to remember that fat people have the same constitutional and legal protections as thin people. If you pass an intrusive law, your state will end up spending a lot of money defending that law. Moreover, overweight tourists might boycott your state if they think that your state is unfair. Now, maybe you only want thin, pretty people to visit your state.

From a legal perspective, your safest course of action is to raise taxes on junk food. Junk food taxes are not discriminatory since thin people buy junk food and fat people will not feel that they are being singled out. Indeed, there are many ways to fight obesity without making fat people the enemy. If your state has an income tax, why not allow taxpayers to deduct the costs of exercise equipment, gym memberships, and exercise classes from their taxes? This would reward those people who are trying to keep the pounds off.

[dawn]

212. I feel for you re: the plane ride, but the rest of your post? huh?

I think the airline should have moved you to the aisle seat. Being in the middle must have been uncomfortable. But that's not your fellow passenger's fault. I think airlines should make seats a bit bigger. I was on a Japan Airlines flight to Tokyo once, and I couldn't believe how tiny the seats were. And I'm a medium-sized girl (although you may consider me fat at size 8 with a soft belly. LOL)

I don't know what the solution is for airlines and seats. I don't think it's cool for them to ask your weight, but if you requested to be moved to the aisle seat, they should have moved you.

But the rest of your post was very insulting to overweight people. Geez, it's just weight. No, it doesn't cost us more money. And I vehemently oppose taxing the overweight. What a joke.

You kinda remind me of my Republican dad! In how he thinks of the poor, and of war protestors.

[Kamika]

136. Yeah I agree it sucks, but not only the fat ones

Alot of ppl are fat today, I just don't get how it's still ok to make fun of them, while if you'd make fun of a gay, jew, muslim, christian, etc you most likely get a warning from a mod. (ok probably not the christian)

I hope people can be more considerate in the future.

Oh and it's not only the fat ppl getting discriminated.. if you have reading/writing problems you're screwed too. Since it's totally ok making fun of ppl that has a hard time spelling correctly even if they like me has dyslexia

[private_ryan]

139. why are MOST people fat Kamika?

it all ends up because the choices they make. We all would love to sit down and eat everything, but we can't, so we pay attention to what we eat. Just like someone who doesn't shave or bathe for weeks, when he can, a fat person (most of them) eats all the junk food and doesn't exercise (or not enough) BY CHOICE.

As far as costing more, it's true. Last years it cost $90 Billion for obesity related claims. Instead of being pushed to lose weight you got these idiotic "Fat acceptance" groups. You're NOT supposed to be fat, let's face it and try to get thin, not accept it. Your heart will eventually fail, diabetes etc. etc.. Looks are the least of your problems.

[Iverson]

140. why do MOST people have epilespy, ryan?

As long as you're medically qualified to make these comments about weight, I'm kind of curious.

[private_ryan]

141. medically qualified to know why people are fat...

does it take a doctor to know??? You eat more calories than you spend, period (unless you're taking pills that effect that). Having a slow metabolism is not an excuse either, eat less or work out to speed it up. Of course you can still be fat, it's your choice.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

144. Dr. Private_Ryan reveals his glaring ignorance

Do some research on the web, Dr., and you'll find out that there is plenty of documentation regarding food allergies, and a genetic component to obesity. Are you denying this? And how do you know it's just overeating and not acccess to nutritional foods that make people fat? And by the way EATING LESS SLOWS THE METABOLISM DOWN, NOT SPEEDS IT UP, EINSTEIN.

Pre- and Post-menopause, the female metabolism really starts slowing down naturally. Many women gain weight while increasing their workouts. Is this their fault, DR.? Or might it be hormonal?

What about thyroid problems? I was thin my whole life until my thyroid went haywire. I ran 10K races, worked out HARD everyday doing kickboxing, teaching aerobics, and lifting weights. So I guess gaining 50 lbs. was because I was lazy and ate too much. :eyes: I am close to my normal weight now and still in great cardiovascular shape. In my experience, I've seen a more unhealthy attitude toward food on the part of those obsessed with thinness that the overweight. This comes from being involved in an all-women health club and Boston Ski and Sports club. It's just that society ACCEPTS the anorexic's unhealthy relationship with food, while blaming the obese person for their predicament.

What about the fact that a great majority of the obese live below the poverty line? Remember when Bush I's administration tried to prove you could live well on food stamps? If you're trying to stretch your food stamps, it's cheaper to buy Mac & Cheese at 3/$1 than whole-wheat pasta ($2.49/lb), organic Skim milk ($3.29 1/2 gallon) and Schmancy cheese ($5+ per lb.). It is cheaper to buy processed food at Walmart or a Happy Meal at Mickey Dee's. The hard-hearted comments on this thread and the ones in GD are not too much of a stretch from this assertion. Again, I will post an example of how much it costs to eat healthily. Not that it will sink into the closed minds here.

I live in an area with a high cost of living. A poor person would be hard-pressed to afford a healthy-eating lifestyle:

Dozen Eggs $2.99 a dozen (Organic/Free-farmed $3.69)
Pot Roast $7.99/lb (cheap cut-nothing fancy)
Boneless Chix $5.49/lb
Center Cut Port Chops $5.99/lb (ON SALE!)
Cabot Butter $3.49 LB (for baking Christmas stuff)
Lettuce (mesclun greens): $7.98/lb
Broccoli: $1.99-2.49/lb
Celery $1.79/BUNCH
Asparagus: $3.99/lb
Spanish Onion: $0.99/lb
Leeks $2.49/lb
Bartlett Pears $1.39/lb (Sale)
MacIntosh Apples $1.79/LB
Lemons 2/$1
Half & Half (Pint, Organic): $1.99

This is an example from the CHEAP grocery store where I live. I only shop for two people-thank God. I wonder how many times I'll have to post an example of what GOOD FOOD ACTUALLY COSTS before it sinks in.

Not one of the fatists responds to the basic facts regarding lack of access to nutritional foods for poor folks, metabolism, genetic components or THEIR OWN NEUROTIC OBSESSION WITH THINNESS. They are so wrapped up in their mental illness that they can't understand facts and logic. There are many professionals available to help them:

http://www.anorexicsanonymous.com/treatment.htm#United%20States

Maybe if they truly examined their consciences, or sought mental help, they'd see just how close their attitudes toward the obese are indicative of the same mindset behind racism, sexism, and homophobia. Then again, maybe not.

[private_ryan]

168. eating less doesn't slow your metabolism

it slows if you miss meal periods, like eating breakfast and lunch together. You need to keep the metabolism going all day by eating snacks, but the greatest way to increase it is exercise. I just came for the gym by the way, spent 15 or min doing abs, boxing and then 50 minutes on the treadmill, topped of with swimming. Just on the treadmill I lost 880 calories, obviously it wasn't just walking and it took me a few weeks to reach that. If I don't go to the gym and don't watch what I eat, I'd be 50-60 lbs overweight too because some of my family members are fat. Knowing that, instead of accepting it and complaining how I'm predisposed, I decided to exercise. It doesn't take much time or money, about 4 hours a week and $30 a month. One can easily spend 4 hours a week on DU and $30 a month on sodas or beer.

I have been about 30 lbs overweight, nothing major some would but I felt and looked lousy. Not anymore. That's all I'm saying. For MOST people being fat is a consequence of the decisions they make and changing their lifestyle will change the way the look and feel. Regardless of what they say, I doubt most fat people want to or feel happy being fat; they just aren't willing or motivated enough to take the steps needed to lose the weight. Accepting it is not the way to go, losing the weight is. If someone tells you you will die of a heart attack because your dad did too at 40, the doctor and real friends don't tell you to accept it, they tell you to join a gym and start steaming those veggies. The truth might hurt, but if it saves your life it may be worth it.

Now go ahead and spin this however you want, call me ignorant, Einstein, rude or whatever. Personally, I could care less how fat people are, I just don't buy the "It's not my fault part" for 90+% of the people, especially since I see with my own eyes what they eat and then ask for a diet coke.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

180. You still don't acknowledge the poverty component

and access to nutrition? Take a look at my grocery list and tell me if a family of 4 on food stamps could afford that. They can barely afford housing in Boston.

BTW the cheapest gym in my city costs $60 a month. Most are between $65-$125. I just researched this because I'm unemployed and was going to switch from my $65/month gym but couldn't find anything cheaper. The Y is $70/month! That pretty much excludes many from joining and getting nutritional advice and access to cardiovascular machines.

Congratulations on your willpower. You're a much better person than all the overweight folks in this country. You should be proud of your moral superiority. As you said, most fat people "aren't willing or motivated enough to take the steps needed to lose the weight." That's why the diet industry is a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR industry. Because fat people aren't motivated to lose weight. If the profits of the diet industry have gone through the roof, how do you explain that Americans are fatter than ever? There has to be other components other than lack of exercise and control.

Being fat doesn't run in my family, but being tall, good-looking and blonde does. Does that make me genetically and morally superior? Your judgementalism is astounding. I'm sure you think if the poor worked harder, they wouldn't be poor, right?

By the way, who are you to judge what anyone eats? Do you resent 'paying' for fat people? Poor People? Affirmative action?

[private_ryan]

193. it sucks being poor for a lot of reasons

been there too. I live in an expensive area too and shop myself, but I see that prepackaged (mostly fatty) foods are more expensive than buying the meat, veggies and salads separate.

anyoen with a pair of sneakers can jog or run if you can't afford the gym. It sucks when it's cold but beats the alternative. I don't feel morally superior, I just refused to accept that I can't change my weight, that's all. Plenty of people do it all the time.

Joining a gym for a year and going there twice is not willpower. The same goes for Weight Watchers and all those things that "help you lose weight". You have to use them, buying the machine or the book is not enough. You have to stick to it. The diet industry is a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR industry but so are the food, TV, movie, couch...industries.

You are born tall, short, gay, straight, (some) blonds etc., running is not going to change that, but it will change yor weight. Nice try to claim that obesity is just as those. How come people are fatter now then 20 years ago? Do you think diet and /or lifestyle has something to so with it?

Once again: as far as I care, eat all you want, gain all the weight you want, just don't tell me "I can't do anything about my weight".

[Dogmudgeon]

151. Ignorance, too, is a choice

Spend a little time actually researching the subject of bariatry (the medical study of weight disorders) and you'll lose that unpleasant Inflammation of the Personal Responsibility gland.

Does it take a doctor to know that homeostatic processes in the human body -- like the ones that regulate breathing, sleeping, and weight level -- are almost impossible to change by mere force of will?

I can't believe it's almost 2004, and the people who are most in thrall to the "it's-your-fault, no-excuses" bushshit are the people who fancy themselves as hard-nosed realists, Skeptics™ and scientific thinkers.

If you think something like obesity is a "choice", I'd suggest you try forgoing breathing for five minutes, or sleep for as little as 96 hours. You won't succeed, either, and all the ideologizing about "personal responsibility" and "choice" will do you about as much good.

The human body is difficult to change; the human mind, however, will believe (in) any damn thing it wants, including ghosts, demons, UFOs, the legitimacy of George Bush, and the ease and moral rectitude of losing 25, 50, or even 75% of one's body weight.

--bkl

[Iverson]

163. let's explore this, ryan

Consider the Inuit. Is their metaboism roughly the same as, say, the Bushmen of the Kalahari, and only a little discipline is the difference in body type, according to you?

[Bertha Venation]

170. "Of course you can still be fat, it's your choice."

One can also choose to be ignorant, Ryan.

[private_ryan]

178. hmmm...

Let's see if I got any smarter: gain all the weight you want, eat anything you want and it's not your fault. Being 100 lbs overweight is great for you and your cardiovascular system. It's the society's fault and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Bertha Venation]

181. I beg your pardon?

You're getting defensive. Who is saying any of that?

Have you read anything of the kind in any of my posts? Or Rose's? Or anyone else's?

[private_ryan]

194. nope

you hinted that I'm ignorant and I worked on it, and got smarter. I proved it to you by replying.

[OhioStateProgressive]

146. nazis worried about "health" too(nt)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

148. Yup-and it lead to the twisted Eugenics program

I'm sure our resident diet Nazis would love to see this program make a comeback.

[OhioStateProgressive]

149. prejudice against the fat is nothing less than fascism

it is the same idea to build a super healthy human race

it is vulgar, and too many people on the left take part in it

[Iverson]

164. yes, it is less than fascism

It is the same as any prejudice based on appearance. It is objectionable. Fascism is a political system that may or may not work as you suggest (and certianly did in the case of German fascism), but there's a great deal more to it than a prejudice.

You're in the right, so don't squander it by overstating your case.

[OhioStateProgressive]

166. building a super race is fascism

i believe it is fascist to insist on a super race of healthy people

[Iverson]

169. sure

That is why I made the parenthetical comment that I did about German fascism. At this point, all I can do is recommend that you read up on fascism, if I cannot convince you that fascism is more complex than a prejudice.

[OhioStateProgressive]

175. of course it is 'more'

but that wasn't my point

prejudice is very much a part of fascism, the parts can be called 'fascist'

[private_ryan]

171. no diet nazi here at all

I'm having a chicken parmigiana with ziti as we speak. Eat all you want, just don't coem and say "It's not my fault that I gained weight"

[Kathy in Cambridge]

183. So an underactive thyroid is no excuse for gaining weight?

Side effects from medication are no excuse for gaining weight?

Your world is so black and white, it's hilarious.

I gained 50 lbs. While running, kickboxing and lifting weights 6 days a week. Oh, and my diet consisted of lean meats, veggies and low carbs. How do you explain that? And how do you explain that once they got my thyroid medicine dosage right I lost 40 of those 50 lbs?

Doesn't really fit in your narrow world view, does it?

[private_ryan]

197. whatever

I know you read my other posts where I stated that so ....If not read them.

[Bertha Venation]

184. Who here has said, "It's not my fault that I gained weight" -- ??

Hmm?

[Kamika]

152. what does that have to do with anything??

It's still not OK to pick on ppl

[Bertha Venation]

165. People had better stop getting pregnant.

If it's not "fat people cost us soooooo much in health care costs," it's "gay people cost us soooooo much in health care costs." Both opinions are equally ignorant.

The number one most expensive and insurance-usage heatlh issue in the United States is pregnancy and childbirth.

Stop having same-sex sex, stop being fat, and stop having kids. Perfect solutions.

[Missy Vixen]

174. Cite, please

>As far as costing more, it's true. Last years it cost $90 Billion for obesity related claims.<

Hey, Ryan, let's see your cite.

If you can't back it up with proof, don't post it.

Julie

[Bertha Venation]

177. Yes, Ryan--cite?

While you're at it, find the cost for pregnancy/childbirth claims for the same time period.

Put your money where your mouth is.

[private_ryan]

186. what if I can?

wanna bet something?

[Bertha Venation]

189. for chrissakes, just post a cite

Does everything have to be a pissing contest?

[private_ryan]

198. and here's the cite

will work to find the 2003 one where it was $90 Billion (I read it on MSNBC.com a few months back).
This one is from 1999-2000 and it's $70 Billion.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2000/07/31/focus3.html
--snip--
Recent articles in the Journal of the American Medical Association describe increased prevalence of heart disease and other obesity related illnesses. An adult type of diabetes is now showing up in children. An estimated 250,000 people die each year due to obesity related causes.

The financial cost is $70 billion a year, which includes medical bills and lost wages from people who become ill.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2000/07/31/focus3.html

[Bertha Venation]

219. Nice try. Do you realize that this issue is not black & white?

This article does not cite the author's authority for the $70b figure. It cites the AMA journal's recent articles (the author also failed to cite the articles) decribing "increased prevalence of heart disease and other obesity related illnesses" and that an "estimated 250,000 people die each year due to obesity related causes."

Where is your authority for this figure of $70b? And where's the breakdown -- besides obese folks themselves, whom did obesity cost $70b in '99-'00? Specifically, how much of this $70b did you, private_ryan, have to pay on behalf of all of us obese Americans?

Did you read the whole article you linked to? I don't care if you continue your search for citations. I care about people learning to understand that this is not a black and white issue.

[Bertha Venation]

179. MY "OBESITY RELATED CLAIMS" FROM 2003

Here are the reasons I visited the doc in 2003:

1. arthritis in my spine -- hereditary

2. Hepatitis C (try to link that to obesity)

3. blood-pressure spike -- a new doc had me on an anti-depressant that can cause hypertension; changed the medication, BP went down

My heart, on which I had four surgeries in infancy, is fine. This was proven by the extensive workup by my new cardiologist after the BP spike. No trace or hint of diabetes in me. As for "etc., etc. . . ." -- what ailments does your crystal ball tell you I have?

Ryan, in your infinitesimal world, is any medical claim by an obese person automatically "obesity-related?"

[private_ryan]

195. for every one person who can't lose weight

I bet they are another 10 who can, but don't (or act like they don't).

[Bertha Venation]

216. how about a cite on this?

Back it up, man. "You bet." I guess I should just accept that as good enough, eh?

Have you ever loved anyone who weighed more than you thought they should?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

218. It's all a reflection of prejudice, and

Judging by his post history, this is just one area where he shows his prejudices.

[Bertha Venation]

220. Well, I have prejudices too, Rose.

I hate bigots so much I am one; I tend to dislike people who've lied to me or treated me like a child; I wouldn't trust any number of politicians as far as I could throw them.

I guess we all have our prejudices. Private_ryan's entitled to his. It would be nice to see folks who think we fat people just don't try hard enough acknowledge that perhaps they really don't know all there is to know about the issue. It would be nicer to see them stop judging altogether, but I doubt that's ever going to happen.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

200. Acceptance and awareness are often the first steps to handling an issue

I have entertained over the years for some "fat acceptance groups" such as Overeater's Anonymous. The people in that room were no more LARGE than what I see when I entertain for the general population. I think you need to read up on awareness groups before criticizing them.

Also, I am wondering if you have quantified the health dollars spent on sports related injuries....

[Samurai_Writer]

142. I had to get out of GD after seeing the fat-bashing

I agree, the fat-bashing and fat-phobia over in GD made me see
red! I'm 5'10" and 275 pounts -- 100 pounds overweight
according to the 'experts', and have been that way for 13
years. A car accident that rendered me immobile for several
months was the main cause of my weight gain, but I am also
genetically predisposed to it. Also, my meds for my asthma
(steroids) also contributed.

Have I tried to lose weight? Yes! Before I accepted myself as
I am, I did everything to try and lose weight. I hated how I
looked and how people treated me just because I was fat.
However, about 10 years ago I found a wonderful fat-acceptance
group and discovered there were people that actually find
bigger women attractive! I'm now a BBW model and could
probably date every night if I wanted to (and yes, have sex!
Lots of it!). I do tend to be very selective about who I date,
though, for reasons other than asthetics. I'm holding out for
a particular DUer, actually, who likes me just the way I am!

And as for health issues, I have perfect blood pressure,
cholesterol, blood sugar, etc. The only health problems I have
are the same ones that I had before I gained weight -- asthma
and a bad back caused by the car accident.

So to all you fat-bashers out there -- here's a photo of a
'disgusting' fat person!

RadFemFL

copy and paste in your address field, since I cannot get the
link to work:

www.geocities.com/capitolhill/2991/mary-set4024_small.jpg.jpg

[NashVegas]

155. How Can You Expect Empathy from Someone Who Can't Imagine?

Sympathy, yes, but empathy? True empathy? You'll die holding your breath.

Most people who've never struggled with weight can't imagine what it would be like to *feel* gravity when hiking up a steep hill or climbing 5 flights of stairs. Nor can they imagine *being the one* who needs the extra-wide seat. Once upon a time, I was one of those skinny people - a stick with boobs; as a larger person now, I'm not going to waste a drop of energy condemning others for what they simply can't understand, nor demanding they feel the way I want them too.

Most white people - even those who don't carry racial prejudices around - couldn't begin to imagine what it would *truly* feel like to be pulled over by the police for no other reason than being black and driving a particular car. You might have an idea, but you could never really *know*.

You need to get over your own bitterness if you want to change anything. Negatively does not affect positive change.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

157. I'm just horrified that others don't see the toxicity of their attitudes

I would expect these comments in Freeperland, not on DU. I am also not a negative person-quite the opposite. Quite a few DUers have met me and can attest that I am an optimist.

I don't demand they feel this way, just that they look at facts. And maybe reflect that their own prejudices stem from an unhealthy relationship with food. I have known two women personally who died from complications from anorexia. One was 21, the other 33.

How can anyone with half a brain or an ounce of logic not see that poverty and lack of access to good food can lead to obesity? Not to mention the variety of illness and reactions to medications listed by our fellow DUers? I guess I expect that Democrats and Independents who feign tolerance extend this to all groups.

[NashVegas]

161. The RW Holds No Monopoly on Prejudice

I would expect these comments in Freeperland, not on DU.

Two years ago, I'd be with you. That was about 32,000 registered members ago.

How can anyone with half a brain or an ounce of logic not see that poverty and lack of access to good food can lead to obesity?

Sure it can, but I suspect that's not the most common factor. Historically, the lower classes were the skinniest, for they did the most manual labor and had less access to gluttinous foods. Thanks to modern food processing and the rise of technology, that's no longer the case.

Regarding lack of access to good food - again, I think that's more due to technology and consumerism/advertising. Give the average teenager $4.00 and two choices:

a) a bag of Fritos & dip
b) a small bag of raw of green beans and a pork chop from the butcher

I'll guarantee you, the Fritos will win every time.

For my own weight - 130 to 200 over the past 10 years, I accept that it's my own lifestyle that's responsible. OTOH, I've known severely overweight people who've had life-long thyroid conditions.

[private_ryan]

173. oh, so there's nothing else but obesity and anorexia

it's one or the other. How many do you know that died prematurely or are really sick from being really fat? I don't one person who says "let's accept anorexics just the way they are". Instead they suggest they get help. Why shouldn't it be the same for obese people?

[Iverson]

176. a difference that you just missed

In your comparison, anorexia is understood as a medical disorder that requires a medical response and presumably compassion. Your comparison has not admitted the same of obesity, but instead has been based upon a scold about choice and responsibility.

Which way do you say it's supposed to go?

[private_ryan]

190. medical disorder my ass

every day they invent a new one to sell new pills.

Talking about doctors, name ONE doctor that says that being fat is OK and that fat people should accept their weight, instead of losing it. As I said above, if you can't lose it because of, pills, chemo, hormones or whatever disease you have, I really feel bad for you. However, if you're watching Jerry Springer with a pint of ice cream or popcorn ....

[Selwynn]

201. I can name my Mom's doctor

Guess what asshat, my Mom has three different conditions, the combination of which means that pills could kill her, and she will still remain overweight even if she eats only the smallest amounts of food. My mom exercises, and eats ALMOST NEXT TO NOTHING, and she will be overweight for the rest of her life.

And she'll have to put of with fucking idiot asshole dumfucks like yourself for the rest of her life too.

You're problem is that you decide that YOU are qualified to pass judgment on other people. "Most people are fat because they're lazy bastards" that's what you say. But you're not qualified to make the judge and not only that but that's not true of many many people - so what gives you the right to have an offensive idiot jackass attitude to anyone. Do you hand out questionnaires to overweight people before you engage them? Please answer the following: Are you overweight because of a medical condition, because of other complicated factors I might not be aware of, or because you are a lazy bastard? Then based on the response you decide how you are going to treat people.

God I get so weary of people like you. WHO CARES why other people are the way they are? Does it make any difference to how you should treat them and what kind of attitude you should have? NO.

[private_ryan]

207. and I'm the offensive one

"asshat", "fucking idiot asshole dumfucks", "offensive idiot jackass",

you need to relax, you know. And yes, I am qualified to pass judgment to people, just as you felt free to pass judgment to me. Talk to you when you're in a more relaxed state of mind.

[Selwynn]

208. Yes you are the offensive one.

And I think its more than understandable after your tirade of prejudice to get a little hot under the coller when its close to home.

And no, you are not qualified to pass judgement on someone based on their size. Just like my mom, and the millions of other people who have weight conditions that have nothing to do with being lazy. You aren't qualified to have judgemental snide attitudes about them. You're only responsibilty is to treat them with the same decency and respect that everyone else desevers, get off your high horse, stop your condecending attitude towards overweight people and think about your own attitudes for a while.

By the way, my statement still stands: You're problem is that you decide that YOU are qualified to pass judgment on other people. "Most people are fat because they're lazy bastards" that's what you say. But you're not qualified to make the judge and not only that but that's not true of many many people - so what gives you the right to have that attitude to anyone? Do you hand out questionnaires to overweight people before you engage them? Please answer the following: Are you overweight because of a medical condition, because of other complicated factors I might not be aware of, or because you are a lazy bastard? Then based on the response you decide how you are going to treat people.

I don't apologize for pointing out an obvious truism. You are, in lieu of any other description, acting like a total dick. That's the bottom line. And really, you can hem and haw and try to turn it around on me and my "judgmental" attitudes all you want, but there's really no escaping that fact. You're acting like a dick, and it'd be nice if you stopped.

[Cheswick2.0]

213. actually you are the offensive one

you are ignorant of the facts and judgemental. Some day you will be less than perfect and people will judge what they perceive as your weakness. We have a saying here in Pa, "what goes around comes around".... in other words Karma's a bastard.

[private_ryan]

214. whateva

n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

203. Well the weight loss industry is the champion of bullshit gimmicks

so I believe you just contradicted yourself.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

206. Kobe inviting that girl to his room was a "lifestyle" choice too!

:evilgrin: Perhaps he should pay for the trial since his "lifestyle choice" will cost the state of Colorado so much money. :D

[Iverson]

210. Your inconsistency is showing, ryan.

I said nothing about doctors saying that being fat is OK. You know, if you can't address the point that was actually made, it's better not to address it at all, as you avoided my point above about different body types in different parts of the world.

I thought that my plain English was quite clear. You are treating extreme thinness and extreme fatness in two different and opposite ways.

Why isn't consistency good enough, ryan? Or will you go back and answer my actual point? Something remotely akin to it isn't good enough.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

191. It's easier to hide anorexia bec. it's more acceptable to be too thin than

too fat.

Janet, who was 33, died of kidney failure due to dehydration and the massive amount of laxatives she had taken over a decade or so. She hadn't had a period in years. I would not allow her to take my aerobics class without a doctor's note, which she would never produce. Another instructor did the same.

Society views thinness as exhibiting control over ones life, and fatness as the opposite. As Kanary said above, there is a constant battle in a lot of people to exert control over an area of their life. It is part of being an addict.

[LWolf]

156. I'm with you there.

I've been all over the map with weight as an adult; size 5 - 16 and in between. Calorie intake/physical activity is only a piece of the problem. And all of the issues are interconnected, making it difficult to see where the process starts and ends. Emotional issues, blood sugar issues, carb addiction, stress, time spent taking care of everything but me...it all goes into the mix.

Generally, I do pretty well (although I never expect to be anywhere close to size 5 again) when I eat plenty of green vegetables and lean protein. And nothing else.

Add carbs to the mix, and it's a different story. My blood sugar swings wildly, I gain quickly, and I lose control of the process. It's like an alcoholic who shouldn't take one drink; I shouldn't eat that one cookie, or piece of bread, or potato, or ice cream. It can take me months and 10-20 lbs to regain control.

Then there's stress; when I'm under too much stress, or having to spend too many hours at work, I don't have the same discipline. I give in. I generally eat what ever I can get quickly, easily, and without any extra effort. Because I'm too tired to deal with anything else.


And physical activity; I have to admit that there is an element of stubborness here. I absolutely will not pay money to go to a gym. I don't mind loading and unloading a ton of hay, hiking into the hills with my dog or my filly, doing yardwork, etc., but I'll be damned if I'll pay someone to make me bounce up and down or operate machines. When I'm feeling good, and have the time, I get plenty of exercise. When I spend 12 hours a day at a sedentary job, and it's dark when I leave and when I get home, I won't get the physical activity that I need. And I'll spend my time resenting the loss of free daylight hours.

Add all of that up I get bouts of weight problems throughout my life. Which makes me more than aware of the stigma attached. These days, I'll have friends who appreciate who I am, regardless of what I look like. And to hell with the rest.

[annonymous]

185. I found the obesity threads in General Discussion disgusting.

How so many posters could make judgements about people they don't know and have never seen shows a lack of manners. However, I think giving unsolicited advice to total strangers to be rude beyond belief.

[Selwynn]

202. I want to say this again, because I'm sick of the attitude on this thread

by one man.

You shouldn't really have to do a mental evaluation about the size of another person and whether or not you feel that size is justified or not before you decide to treat them with the dignity they deserve and the respect and kindness they deserve.

The problem with you is that you have the same attitude about weight that the right wing has about the poor. "Why should I be sensitive to the plight of the poor or treat the poor with dignity and respect as my brothers and sisters? Some would correctly say that most poor people are poor because of their lifestyle choices (lazy, bad money managers)."

The problem with that attitude is that it is a complete and total lie, as well as utterly inappropriate. For one thing, its arrogance and offensive when I hear some rich republican passing judgment on the life of a poorer person that he doesn't know one damn thing about. And that attitude doesn't excuse the rich man from fair and decent treatment of a poorer person, including basic respect.

But when it comes to people you feel are overweight suddenly its perfectly okay for you to act like a jackass. Things we would be mortally offended to hear said by some rich-right winger about the poor you have no problem saying about people who are overweight.

I'm carrying probably 30 or so more pounds than I should. Certainly not that bad, but still overweight. But what I know about the particular circumstances of my life and situation right now is that I'm not carrying 30 or so more pounds because I'm a lazy bastard or engaged in some horrible lifestyle. Right now I'm doing the best I can do with resources I have. And the point is, its not for YOU to judge that.

You can say thing like - most people are fat because they're lazy ...oh, well accept for people with medical conditions.... oh yeah, and people with disabilities.... oh, yeah and I hadn't thought of that particular situation, so except those people too.... oh, yeah good point, you're right I can't blame people in those situations either.

Pretty soon you realize that stupid, prejudiced over-generalizations like the ones you make are pretty ridiculous, and that the bottom line is, its not your call to pass judgment over other people - no matter how they look.

By the way, I am a hiring manger for my company - I interview for positions on a regular basis. I don't give a damn about how much someone weighs. No one cares. It's ridiculous and bad for business to care about that. I had to order a special chair for one of the best contributors on my team because he is a pretty large guy. Big deal. I need people with the technical skills to do the job, I don't have time to give a good god damn about how someone looks.

More and more and more the only place the kinds of statements you are making exist is in the heads of narrow minded prejudiced people like yourself. Quit worrying about other people's weight and whether they could weigh less and just start treating them with the respect and dignity they deserve. Their size is not your problem, and you're fair treatment of them shouldn't have to be conditional on your assessment of their size.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

205. Good post

And I think for those who disparage the overweight-they should turn that critical eye inward and maybe start working on themselves.

[Maine Mary]

223. I APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE I HAVE OFFENDED

I didn't mean to. I think I used some poor wording choices but I never meant to offend anyone. Please read my post #222. And if that doesn't help, I hope you all will still please forgive me.

Most of you folks are newer here then I. And I haven't posted much lately. But if you knew me, you'd understand that I never meant to hurt anyone's feelings. I am not the person you seem to think I am.

Nonethelss I apologize.

[chefgirl]

226. Your words speak for you, Mary

>I am not the person you seem to think I am.<

Any opinions anyone on this thread may have of you are almost certainly a result of the words you used.

Ok, so now you've apologized, but the problem is, I just can't decide which of your words in this thread carry more weight (pun intended); your apology or your vitriol. :shrug: Hmmm, I'll have to think on that.

Most often, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the person who is apologizing, but in your case, I'm sorry, it just doesn't ring true.

-chef-


edited for punctuation

[mitchum]

224. Actually I see more derogatory comments about skinny people here

(particularly actresses, etc.) If 57% of Americans are indeed overweight, then we the underweight are the real minority...AND WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT FROM THE MAN ANYMORE!

[Moderator]

227. locking thread

getting out of hand