Vinyl LP bonanza. How to catelog? How to play?

[DemoTex]

The woman I bought my mountain house from sold me her furniture, and a whole lot more. Included in the package, and a big surprise to me, were 235 vinyl LPs. I would guess that 90% are classical albums and 20% have never been opened.

I spent all day segregating the LPs: Bach in one stack; Beethoven in another; Brahms in a shorter stack, and; a surprising number of Berlioz (including Requiem and Symphonie Fantastique ... good, oh!).

The non-classical albums include a few great Beatles (and a 45-RPM of Hey Jude), a lot of Harry Bellafonte, and some Boston Pops sides with jazz musicians.

I've started a catelog with MS Excell spreadsheet. Any better ideas?

Also, she left me a DUAL 1257 turntable that seems to work. Any ideas on the 1257 (I once had a great 1219)? I can't even read the data on the stylus. Would it be magnetic or the other? Reason I ask is that the old amp she left has two plug-ins for the phono (magnetic and something I cannot read).

I remember a thread here a few weeks ago about turntables. I looked a couple of the audiophile-preferred turntables up and was shocked ($2000 to over $10,000). What might be a good, modern, <$500 replacement to the DUAL 1257, should that be necessary?

I'm excited about this classical collection. It is somewhat redundant, with my 200+ classical CD collection. However, there are some great old artists, with great old symphonies, on relatively pristine vinyl.

Ideas?

[lazarus]

1. One recommendation

No matter what you do, to save the life of the records, is to rip them at super high bit rate (320kb) to MP3. That way you can keep them safe and only play them when you want a real audiophile experience.

Another possibility if you want a real high quality transfer is to look into the new DVD-Audio. That's got a bit rate up around vinyl analog, from what I hear.

[DemoTex]

2. Laz, thanks ...

How do I "rip them up" to MP-3. DVD-Audio? Does that mean I can copy the LPs to those formats? How? I'm foaming at the mouth at the prospect of saving this great collection. Especially on DVD.

[lazarus]

15. Okay

This may be a bit ahead of our time, as the cheapest software I can find to burn the DVD-Audio is running around $6,000.

So, back to mp3s. :-)

Alternatively, if you want a much better recording, along the lines of one CD per album, just leave them as .wav files.

Here's a quick how-to, fairly basic. Not sure about the software "Goldwave". I've used WinAmp to rip to .wav files, to be honest, and it worked fine. You can just google around and find all sorts of free programs.

[rapier]

3. ahhh

Well does it play? Plug it in.

All cartriges are magnetic. There were some called moving magnet and some moving coil, I don't recall exactly but one tended to have lower output but I don't ever recall any amps with different inputs for them. Uness the amp is really really old then I think there might be inputs for older types of cartiges which while still magnetic may have had higher output. Use the one labled magnetic, you almost can't go wrong. The only thing you have to know about phono inputs is that there was a standardized equalization applied to them. Often modern amps don't have phono inputs and if you attach a turntable to unequalized inputs the sound will be a bit weird. Modern turntables, if you were to buy one often have the equalizer built right into them so you can plug them into any amp input. Whew.

Duals were not particularly noted for super performance but turntable choice became highly snooby at the high end and as long as it spins steady don't worry about it. It's good enough. More important perhaps is the needle/cartrige. I'd replace the needle just because, if its bad it hurts the records. If you know the cartige brand I'm sure on the net you can find a needle, OK Stylus.

I scouted EBAY a few years ago for an Empire turntable, a beautyful snobby model of days gone by. Never won an auction and bought a Soney with built in cartrige for $99 at Best Buy. Good enough for non snobs. Still, Ebay is the way to go to get old; high end.

Rip records to digital with a sound card. Plain sound cards only rip to wav and then you have to convert to MP3 but any aftermarket card will certainly convert to MP3 nowdays. The hard part is dragging your computer to the stereo, or vice vera. I use a Sony Diskman minidisk player recorder at the stereo and then dump them onto the computer. Admittedly the Sony is a pain to use.

[DemoTex]

5. rapier ... thanks!

Yes, I plugged it in and it works. You are right, both channels work when I plug into the MAG plugs. Lot's of 60-cycle hum, but I haven't grounded the turntable yet. Since I have fairly severe tinnitus (with slightly degraded hearing), I don't think I'll upgrade an audio component until I have to.

I have the whole ball of wax near the computer, so ripping should not be a problem.

Thanks,
Mac

[HamstersFromHell]

4. Nice bonus!

The Dual will probably be just fine...most all of the Duals were good, servicable tables in the $200-500 range anyway. Might change the belt or/idler wheel if it's belt or the older friction drive. On direct-drive (or really any of them) make sure the lighter volatiles in the lubrication of motor bushing/bearing and the like haven't evaporated and are causing excess friction or sticking.

Best bet if you can't positively identify the cartridge is scrap it for a new one. Expect to pay $250-500 for something good enough to reproduce the subtle nuances of quality vinyl recordings. I highly recommend Grado carts. The two type are moving magnet and moving coil. Most any amplifier can handle moving magnet cartridges. Moving coil designs typically produce a much lower signal level and often require additional pre-amplification. Remember the KISS principle. Less IS more here, as far as additional "processing" of the signal. For systems to play good vinyl, the speakers are 50%, the cartridge is 40%, the rest is electronics.

Vinyl can be "streched", so no matter the temptation to do so, only play an album once per 24 hour period. Letting the vinyl "rest" will allow the grooves to reform to their original shape.

Buy a *good* record cleaning system and use it religiously. Dirt in the groove hit by a stylus is not only annoying, but damaging to the recording.

As for ripping to mp3...if you have the drive space, got for straight conversion to .wav files. Even a mp3 with a 320kHz rate is losing subtle information in the sound. For conversion, buy at minimum a Sound Blaster Live or better quality card.

Hope this helps!

[DemoTex]

6. Helps a bunch, HamstersFromHell. Thanks!

Sounds like I can keep the DUAL. Thanks for the tips.

Mac

[lazarus]

9. Yeah

Even 320 isn't quite good enough. I'm looking around right now at DVD Audio stuff.

But for now, a single play just to get a recording for every day play would be fine, I think. I've found as low as 192 is fine on my relatively cheap stereo.

I miss my old system. Several thousand dollars' worth of components....

[reprehensor]

7. New turntable.

I'd say get a new turntable that has regular 'audio' outs. It's pretty common now. I think the Sony Store carries turntables, as does Radio Shack. (Yes, still!)

They won't be audiophile quality, but most people can't hear as good as my dog anyhow. :)

I live in Rowlett and might be able to help you out if you are nearby. My wife has to work next week, but I don't!

Send me a DU mail if you wish.

[DemoTex]

8. Thanks "Reprehensor"

My hearing is very bad from 41 years around airplanes, plus Vietnam noise, plus anti-malarials (acording to the specialists). I think you are right. Start off with a new, known baseline. It needs to be able to handle my new collection, tie in to the modern amps, and suit my rather compromised hearing capability. I vow to go down listening to Bach's Actus Tragicus (BV 106), so loud the cops will be called ... at my mountain house!

[CanuckAmok]

10. Pick up a Technics 1200Mk2 DJ Table.

Reason 1: They are indestructable. Drop them, cart them around in the trunk of your car in blistering heat or sub-zero cold. They can take it. They are the longest-running consumer electronics item still being manufactured unchanged (26 years and still in production). I'm not sure about the US market, but they're probably about $350 or so.

Reason 2: they are so heavy (22lbs) and so well-suspended, that you'll save tons of time not having to find a perfect, bounce-free spot in your home. Just find a level surface, put the turntable on it, and play.

Reason 3: there are many headshell/stylus options for the 1200. I use a Stanton i-Track one piece headshell/stulus, which is a very durable and clean sounding general purpose set-up.

Reason 3: They are direct-drive, so they don't have belts that will wear out. I'm having a hard time finding replacement belts for some other brands of turntables I own, because few suppliers are bothering to support older turntables. The Technics 1200 is still in production, and parts, should you need them, are easily found.

You need to run the signal through a pre-amp or mixing board before it goes into your amplifier or PC sound card. A dedicated pre-amp is $19 at Radio Shack, where you can also find general purpose mixing boards with built in preamps, starting at around $40. I'm running my turntable through a Radio Shack SSM 8030 mixer, and I use it for all the recording/playback to/from my computer.

I'm currently burning a few hundred out-of-print LPs to MP3. If you want the details, PM me.

Unless you're a 25 year old audiophile, you'd be hard-pressed to hear any significant difference between pretty much any format you can record onto your PC, and the vinyl itself. Unless you're listening, undistracted, in a tuned listening room, it's pretty academic, although I'm sure there are some auDUphiles who would disagree. I'm like you--I've had enough environmentally induced hearing deterioration that subtle differences in bit-rates and high frequencies aren't that noticable.


On edit:

PS--careful with the Beatles records. Before you even think of playing them, find out what they're worth. There are collector sites on the net that can tell you. If they're rare, don't play them unless you don't mind potentially reducing their value.

PPS--I use excel to catalog my vinyl, too. Once you burn your selections to MP3, you can use WinAmp (free playback software) to gnerate printable HTML playlists of your collection.

[BiggJawn]

11. Beware the "Audiophool", Mac!

Good advice so far, but look out for those who will tell you that you NEED a 1/4 Oz. bottle of "stylus lube" that you get mail order for $49.99....You'll "believe you can hear a difference"! :7

The other input on the amp was prolly for a "ceramic" cartridge, like what they put in those built like a battleship BSR changers in "record players". Pickering made some high-end ceramics, I think, but that was YEARS ago. Everything now is some kind of magnetic. The ceramics had a higher output, so one set of inputs will sound OK and the other will sound weak or not there.
If you ears are anything like mine are from too many years of working around too many cooling blowers and riding loud bikes, your ears probably crap out around 14,000Hz. So anything that gives you 12-22,000 Hz response is a waste of money.I've used Audio-Techicha cartridges for years and I like them as well as I did a Shure or Empire. bet I couldn't hear a difference anymore.

[DemoTex]

13. BJ ... my hearing is shot. Stylus lube for $50? Any other uses for it?

Sounds like something from HRO! I mean, KY is only $2.59/tube, fer Christ's sake (oops! That was 15 years ago ... last KY purchase I made). Anyway, my hearing is relatively impaired and getting worse.

You are right. The other Phono input is "CERAMIC". I'd forgotten all of that. I had a DUAL 1219 and Sansui amp comming out or Vietnam, along with a mean TEAC open reel tape deck.

I will buy a new, low-cost turntable if these sides turn out as good as I think they will. I'm a classical music lover from way back, and this is the most well-balanced collection I've ever seen (well, it is a bit light on opera).

[BiggJawn]

16. "Stylus Lube" helps the guy selling it get rich...

Look up some of the crap that's sold to these guys sometimes. "Audiophool" for a search term should uncover some good laughs.

light on Opera would be fine with me. never been an opera fan.

[DemoTex]

17. When I was working at FlightSafety as an MU-2 instructor ...

We had a guy come through from a company called DiscWasher. Remember them? They had a great system to clean vinyl disks. They made big bucks from the audiophiles. They had a stretched Mitsubishi MU-2 ultra-fast prop-jet to wisk the DiscWasher execs from disc-to-disc. Then the discs gave them the dick. Can you say CD, DiscWasher?

[arwalden]

12. Ebayers and collectors are DROOLING all over their keyboards...

... as they read your brief descriptions. You've got a gold mine.

-- Allen

[DemoTex]

14. Thanks, Allen

I guess quality is in the eye of the beholder. I see top quality in these disks, and I am in the mood to put up with setting up a system to listen to them. There is some duplication in the collection, but that is minor. One of these days I'll post a synopsis of the titles and major details of the collection. Until then, I'll consider myself lucky.

Mac