Q. "Why won't the American People WAKE UP?" A. "Aaron Spelling"

[omega minimo]

Aaron Spelling has a lot of cheesy crap to answer for.

Before there was Frank Luntz and Karl Rove massaging the American mind with soft, gooey, pre-packaged, mind-numbing mental dog treats there was Aaron Spelling massaging the American mind with soft, gooey, pre-packaged, mind-numbing mental dog treats.

Dynasty
Charlie's Angels
Melrose Place
Charmed
Titans
Beverly Hills 90210
7th Heaven
Malibu Shores
Burkes Law
The Love Boat
Starsky and Hutch
The Colby's
(He gets a pass for) The Mod Squad


Sit. Stay. Roll over.

Good boy.

[NYCGirl]

1. So if you don't like it, don't watch it. Are you going to be the taste

arbiter for the US?

[omega minimo]

2. Voluntary brainwashing?

and now people can PAY for it on cable!!

[NYCGirl]

11. Okay, you want to tell us what books are good for us to read? We'll just

burn the rest. What movies should be get rid of?

You know, sometimes people can watch the kind of TV you don't like and read newspapers and be informed, too.

[omega minimo]

27. Have you read "1984"?

You can play it like I want to dictate. Only thing I have to say about that is NO JOURNEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!

You've heard of dumbing-down, right? I didn't invent that-- Spelling didn't either, but he capitalized on it BIG TIME

"You know, sometimes people can watch the kind of TV you don't like and read newspapers and be informed, too."

Spelling created TV for people who want to live in a mall. And the real world suffers for it.

[NYCGirl]

28. You sure sound like a lot of fun. NT

[omega minimo]

30. More fun than living is the mall

and you seem to have no sense of humor :shrug:


You didn't say if you've read the book

[NYCGirl]

31. Of course I've read it.

"More fun than living is the mall"? What does that mean?

BTW, you're the one who sounds humorless.

[omega minimo]

39. The jokes on you

:evilgrin:


There's no denying it was cheesy crap that contributed to the dumbing down of the U.S. and we LIKE it that way, dammit!!! :bounce: :bounce:

[Jara sang]

103. Why are you always attacking people?

This is the second thread in which you have attacked me.

[NYCGirl]

111. I don't feel I've attacked you. I merely pointed out that Spelling gave

lots to Democratic causes and you took off, saying that if he didn't give 90% of his money away, etc. I merely disagreed with you. There are others on this thread who also disagreed. You're the one who brought up the "other website", which I saw as an attack.

[mountainvue]

93. Someone's had too much coffee...or something. n/t

[Johnny Noshoes]

44. True

its JUST TV. It does have an off button. I like this quote from the movie "Network" -


"We deal in illusions, man. None of it is true. But you people sit there day after day, night after night, all ages, colors, creeds. We're all you know. You're beginning to believe the illusions we're spinning here. You're beginning to think that the tube is reality and that your own lives are unreal. You do whatever the tube tells you. You dress like the tube. You eat like the tube. You even think like the tube. In God's name, you people are the real thing, WE are the illusion." Howard Beale

[omega minimo]

67. and your quote makes the brainwashing point

"You do whatever the tube tells you. You dress like the tube. You eat like the tube. You even think like the tube. In God's name, you people are the real thing, WE are the illusion." --------Howard Beale

[Johnny Noshoes]

173. I watch very little TV myself.

Programs are just the space between the commercials - it has ALWAYS been about selling stuff. There's another quote I like - back when Marc Maron was still doing Morning Sedition on Air America he started the show with a scream. Then he said "Good morning geniuses, philsopher kings and queens, working class heroes, and progressive utopians with no sense of humor." That is not so much directed at you but some of you all need to lighten up a bit you'll live longer.

[Greyhound]

121. It's not simply a matter of taste, look at what Norman Lear...

(King of the sitcom) did with the same medium. While TV does indeed appeal to the LCD, Lear used his talents to enlighten those at that level, to poke fun at their foolish attitudes and beliefs. He made us laugh at the ridiculous world-view of Archie Bunker and, more than any other single person, turned the amerikan sheeple's attitude toward the Archie bigots around. Where once they were tolerated, they became the objects of ridicule and derision. It took the election of raygun to make the bigots feel safe enough to 'come out' and declare their bigotry again, where they had been encouraged to at least keep it to themselves throughout most of the 70's.

Ironically Aaron Spelling career was built entirely on the work of Norman Lear. By jumping on and even advocating our regression to a medieval mindset, the 'lessons' presented by the output of Spellings schlock factory, was just the opposite. He was a propagandist for the dark side, and the sheeple ate it up. That alone is enough to condemn him, but to then inflict Tori on the world earns him "special recognition".

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Dear Bastards]

168. He can him a pass on The Mod Squad

geez

[pooja]

3. The local news called him and Icon... what a waste of airtime

[dsc]

4. He also financed And the Band Played On

when literally no one else would. Yes, some of his shows were escapist clap trap but others did take on serious issues. Dynasty had a gay story line in an era when it was hardly heard of. Beverly Hills 90210 took on serious issues as well. He did some good and should be lauded for that on a day like this.

[omega minimo]

6. He also facilitated the "Greed Is Good" Reagan nightmare that brought us

to the brink of destruction we are on now.


You are right, also. Here's to AS and mindnumbing, cliche-reinforcing, people-programming escapist claptrap :toast:

[dsc]

10. That is more than a little absurd

He certainly didn't make Reagan popular nor did he help design or implement the man's policies. He didn't run the networks news operations and it was their job, not his, to uncover Reagan's crimes. His only mega-hit during the 1980's was Dynasty which hardly was an ad for rich people.

[omega minimo]

19. Reagan was absurd. Maybe you weren't around.

:rofl: :rofl:
:rofl:

"His only mega-hit during the 1980's was Dynasty which hardly was an ad for rich people."


Oh wait, you're serious? :wow:

[dsc]

23. My 20th High School reunion is next month

so yea I was around. I don't recall Dynasty portraying the rich as good people. I seem to recall a bunch of alduterous swine who drank like fish. Maybe I missed something but that seems to sum up Dynasty.

[omega minimo]

32. So you were 15 in 1983

After the 70's, the Reagan Era agenda included glamorizing Greed and Wealth and Conspicuous Consumption (you remember that term, right?) and White Weddings and Dynasty helped promote that.

(Glamorizing it didn't depend on them being "good"-- remember, "Greed Is Good") :hi:

[dsc]

34. Yea I do

and I recall Reagan and his White House making it popular first and then TV catching up not the other way around.

[omega minimo]

45. Do you see we are at the end of the Reagan Era now?

That the policies and problems and perception management created then led us to this devastated economy, illegal war, unelected administration and comfortably numb population?

Not worth quibbling over whether Reaganomics enabled Dynasty or Dynasty enabled Reaganomics.

Here we are.

The glamor never went away.

[LostinVA]

57. Beat me to it...

[INdemo]

5. I think nearly 70% have..its the 30% that are doing all the talking

or at least have their message heard via the MSM

[Greeby]

7. Oh come on

Plenty of people in my country watched those shows when they were on, didn't make us stupid or politically ignorant. Ditto for any American movies, music or video games you might mention.

[omega minimo]

9. I guess you had to be there

:hi:


other countries have a different way of appreciating cheese for what it is, rather than smothering everything with it.

[LanternWaste]

197. In the words of Groucho Marx

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx.


Nothing new here....

[Greyhound]

127. But in England their are daily alternatives to schlock, here we really

had none. In fact typically when a show that has a good message managed to get through the corporate obstacle course, and then managed to find an audience, the network executives ensured it's failure by moving it from one time slot to another to another to another until its audience was lost. Strangely this didn't often seem to happen to the shows that simply provided mental anesthetic. I'm just sayin' :shrug:

I also think the fact that you have managed to hold on to an effective education system is a much more significant factor than television shows.

[Warpy]

8. At least I'm consistent in one area

because I've never watched any of that nasty poo that came out of his studios. I know otherwise rational people who were absolutely addicted to the horrible stuff and yes, they're the same people who groan and roll their eyes at the subject of politics.

If Spelling hadn't been around, I'm sure some other schlockmeister would have filled the need for vapid, mindless, third rate entertainment to narcotize the masses and the fare might even have managed to be worse.

I don't think there is anything that can force people who are viscerally averse to serious pursuit to forego trash. The best we can do is tolerate them and hope to encourage them to stop voting against themselves by talking in bumper sticker sound bites.

[omega minimo]

14. LOL

:applause: :yourock:



"If Spelling hadn't been around, I'm sure some other schlockmeister would have filled the need for vapid, mindless, third rate entertainment to narcotize the masses and the fare might even have managed to be worse."


and the masses are sufficiently narcotized :boring:

[Adelante]

12. RIP, Mr. Spelling

Ignore the ignorant :eyes:

[omega minimo]

18. Whaddya mean he made a KILLING off the ignorant?!!

:bounce:

[AlCzervik]

13. i plead guilty on 90210.

[fleabert]

15. Have you seen Charmed? ass kicking, unapologetic sexually active, strong

women all over the place. I think it's quite clever. The later episodes were produced by the actresses themselves.

I am a fan, and I am smart and Liberal.

and I applaud his ability to address issues before anyone else did, to a large audience no less.

and, have you seen Tori's show? hilarious!

[omega minimo]

22. Charmed is cheesy and it rocks

:thumbsup:

Those women are strong and don't sit around acting pathetic-- probably why it's watchable. :hi:

[dogday]

24. I am a big Charmed fan

I really liked that show.. Is there help for me? :shrug:

[LostinVA]

58. Tori has also been in a gay movie -- and was very good in it!

Her show is frigging hilarious!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

143. Trick right?

There was also a drag queen that looked like her in that movie. When I was in HS, my friends were all obsessed with a single line in the that movie.

"I've got cum in my eye! IT BURNS!!! IT BURNS!!!"

[1monster]

16. Everyone has their drug of choice. For many, it is the television.

For me, it is reading. A lot of what I read is escapist clap trap. Too much reality causes serious depression.

Lately, I have had a very hard time listening to, reading, or watching the realities of what is happening to our country and our world. I'm sitting up most of the night and sleeping in till 11:00 or so. I've been spending more time in the DU Lounge than I ever have before and less on the Latest page because I need some distance.

We all need a break from reality. For some people those escapist clap trap shows are a necessity. They are a break for when things become too much. And sometimes, those escapist nonsense shows cover things that speak deeply to some who are watching ... thus acting as a cathartic.

Light entertainment has it's place in this world, and it isn't as if the vast majority of the people take those shows seriously.

I think you judge too harshly.

[omega minimo]

26. I hear ya. It's been tough and finding that balance is the best we can do

I'm all for light entertainments at times. The legacy of Mr. Spelling is a particular brand of cliche-drenched lightweight behavior that-- even if redeemed by occasional "escapist nonsense shows cover things that speak deeply to some" gets absorbed and copycatted by viewers.

I'm sorry-- it does sound judgemental to say that the bulk of his shows, going back to the 70's with Love Boat reinforce a lot of really idiotic stereotypes. It's not "ironic" until a decade or so later..................................


Hey best to you. Sounds like you are really doing the right thing to get through this. :hug: When the mindf**k is too much, we have to quit trying to sort it out and give ourselves a break.

[Ishoutandscream2]

17. Gawd, that was some bad tv

We must have the same taste - I give him a pass on the Mod Squad, also.

[dicknbush]

20. I have to say I have heard of a lot of these shows but....

I really can't remember ever watching any of them. I am just not that interested in serial TV programing. Any way you are right it is cheesy goofy stuff but cheesy goofy stuff is a staple of humanity it seems. In any organized society there will always be this kind of pop culture stuff. I guess at the end of the day Spelling gave work to many people who lived and loved. They worked hard got married had children maybe or maybe there were gays who fell in love and have lived happily...whatever at the end of the day and the end of his life his desires and energy made life better for alot of people and for those who chose not to watch his programing that includes me well I am no worse off for not having all paid attention to this stuff but if others enjoyed it so be it. I do have to admit I had heard about the JR shooting and all that but I did not watch the show. Any way peace to him and his family. Oh and don't forget about the Plastic surgeon who probably paid for his pool with the work he had to do on spellings daughter...I can't think of her name right now which is a good thing I think.

[Geek_Girl]

21. I watched

The Love Boat, 90210, Melrose, Starsky and Hutch, and Charlie's Angels regularly in my youth.

I enjoyed the shows and was entertained. I don't feel I was brain washed, nor am I a drooling freeper idiot.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. Here's the thing

I come home after a long day dealing with kids, worrying about them, problem solving, etc. I read DU and some other blogs for my news/politics fix.

When I watch TV at 8PM before bed, I WANT and NEED brain candy. I want stupid, silly, and unrealistic.

A. Spelling was the king of kitsch but he served a purpose.

[Catherine Vincent]

29. I watched some of those shows and loved them.

We shouldn't blame Aaron Spelling. The man is dead now. He was in the entertainment business and that's what he did.

If you guys want to see him in film before he became famous, he is in an episode of "I Love Lucy". When they did the "california here we come" bit. Remember when they had to stop in Bentfork, Tennessee and Lucy was put in jail for speeding? Cousin Ernie had to help them out and everything but the guy that worked at the gas station that had no gas was none other than Aaron Spelling. You guys should check it out, it was really funny.

[johnnie]

33. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

Spelling was an entertainer and he did it well for decades. I see no reason to think he had anything to do with how people think, he just provided entertainment.

Not only that, check out this Newsmeat page on him. He might have been just a producer of cheesy entertainment to some folks, but he sure did a good job in supporting some of our favorite people.

http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Aaron_Spelling.php

[omega minimo]

37. Steady diet of cheesy crap makes Jack dull, slow and dumb

"I see no reason to think he had anything to do with how people think, he just provided entertainment."


That's how it works, son. :hi:

[johnnie]

40. Intelligent people can differentiate between the two

Entertainment and reality can be separated by most of us. I watch some cheesy TV *and* I also am politically aware. I'm sorry you can't do both, but it really isn't too hard. :hi:

[omega minimo]

55. Good point. I like cheese that isn't stupid and stereotyped

:thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Oh For Gods Sake He's A TV Producer, Not Karl Rove. And He Was A Damn

good one at that. He put on some of the most successful tv programs ever and was highly respect by his peers. To sit here and not only compare him to Karl Rove, but to so irrationally blame him for the state of political action in america, is one of the most misguided, extreme and illogical sentiments I've seen here in a while. Especially upon his death.

He made a lot of tv shows. Some of which you obviously didn't care for. Doesn't mean you should demonize him upon his death in such a ridiculous manner. Let's hope you don't plan on going out and protesting at his funeral.

[MJP]

41. I agree. There were dull, slow, and dumb people long before the Love Boat

[Philosoraptor]

36. Proud to say I never watched a single episode of any of those shows

But then, I grew up watching the Three Stooges and Gilligan's Island.

[SoCalDem]

38. He was not the ONLY one... He was but one of many...

just more successful than most..

TV has always been an escapist medium, just like movies..The difference is that until fairly recently, news divisions were not expected to "make money", and were just part of the "public service" part of their licenses.. You could have your brain candy AND still get hard-hitting journalism and documentaries...THAT'S what's gone... We just get candy now:(

[Jara sang]

42. Somebody who lives in this kind of opulance has zero regard for people.

http://www.perljam.net/google-satellite-maps/id/1524/United_States/California/Beverly_Hills/Aaron_Spellings_house

Common citizens were merely economic units to this man. Fuck him. There is no reason for people to be living like this. It is disgusting. I'm with you. I won't shed a tear because of his death.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. What An Ignorant Broad Brush Generality That Sentiment Is.

If I'm that wealthy some day I couldn't wait to design a home like that. To say that just because someone has acquired the wealth to afford a home like that means they have zero regard for people is as ignorant and prejudiced of a thing one can say.

[omega minimo]

52. Stop Insulting People And Go Away

:evilfrown:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. You First.

[omega minimo]

60. You know I will not "discuss" with you. DON'T BOTHER THE GUESTS

:thumbsdown:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

69. Stop The Personal Attacks Omega. Many Of The 'Guests' Don't Agree With

you either.

If you want to refute why attacking and demonizing Mr. Spelling is inappropriate and declaring him to be equal to Karl Rove and responsible for the political state of our country is nonsensical than go for it. If you want to defend and back up how saying something so general as "people who have houses that big don't care about anybody at all" is not ignorant, misguided, broad brush and simply wrong than I welcome you to. But please stop always responding back with such personal attacks. It gets us nowhere.

[Jara sang]

74. Golly gee, what would the Havemores do with out you?

"If I'm that wealthy some day I couldn't wait to design a home like that."<-------- This, this is the most shallow "sentiment" I have EVER seen on DU. Congratulations!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. Yeah, And I'm The One That Attacks.

When I get me that house some day you ain't invited. :P

[Jara sang]

78. Is that all life is to you? The accumulation of wealth?

That is very sad.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

83. Gee, Yet Another Sentiment Of Broad Brush Ignorance.

To twist something as specific as saying if I was really wealthy I'd love a house like that into meaning that nothing else in life matters to me but money is as ignorant, misguided, twisted and dead wrong as the original sentiment I responded to.

Try and open your mind a little to others that don't think EXACTLY like you do. You may find such understanding to be quite beneficial throughout your life.

[omega minimo]

120. Your Personal Attacks Make "Discussion" Impossible And You Know It

Attacking others posts with personal insults and when they object, pretending they attacked you.........


SAME OLD MIND FUCK

:evilfrown:



Go Away

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

131. The Only One I See Right Now Doing The Personal Insulting & Attack Is You.

You love to call me and others attacking and insulting for offering viewpoints you don't agree with. Do you have trouble accepting that not everyone has the same opinions on things you do? All I did was offer a descriptive opinion on a statement a poster said and you still haven't addressed that directly. I asked you above to address the actual issues raised in my post instead of turning this into a personal vendetta against me and you still couldn't do it.

A poster declared that anyone with a really big house doesn't care about anybody at all. I found that sentiment to be a broad brush generalization rooted in ignorance. Do you disagree? If you do, how bout providing reasons why instead of only attacking me and my character in response.

See, my opinions were based on the context of the posts of which I replied to and were only in reference to them. Yours, however, were directly pointed at me as a person and absolutely were attacks. Where is your reply to the actual context of my opinions? I don't see any. I only see character assassination with no reference to the opinions themselves merely because you don't like when others disagree with you. But sorry to say, that's going to happen from time to time. Especially when you post things that compare Aaron Spelling to Karl Rove and declare him to be the main reason why we are in the political state we're in.

I'd ask again for you to respond to the context of my opinions as opposed to making it personal and waging attacks, but by now I pretty much know better.

[omega minimo]

150. Calling you on your reversals & lies is not an attack. I refuse to be

baited or accused falsely in your little mindgame. I do not attack you-- I tell you to not bother me.

I tell you repeatedly that I will not discuss anything with you -- and don't owe you any explanations -- because you do this every time. I have never seen a thread where you didn't pull this on me or someone else. Jara Sang gave it a go. You know I refuse. HOMEY DON'T PLAY DAT.

Saying something happened doesn't mean that it happened. You make false claims. You pretend you're being attacked. You lie. You slander:

Posted by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
"The Only One I See Right Now Doing The Personal Insulting & Attack Is You." OPERATIONLIE
"You love to call me and others attacking and insulting for offering viewpoints you don't agree with." OPERATIONLIE
"All I did was offer a descriptive opinion on a statement a poster said and you still haven't addressed that directly." OPERATIONLIE
"I asked you above to address the actual issues raised in my post instead of turning this into a personal vendetta against me and you still couldn't do it." OPERATIONLIE
"Yours, however, were directly pointed at me as a person and absolutely were attacks." OPERATIONLIE
"I only see character assassination with no reference to the opinions themselves merely because you don't like when others disagree with you." OPERATIONLIE




"I'd ask again for you to respond to the context of my opinions as opposed to making it personal and waging attacks, but by now I pretty much know better."

Since you start your posts with histrionic insults and then are SHOCKED when people don't want to talk to you;
Since you know I will not "discuss" with you because the "context of your opinions" is ALWAYS to do the same boring mindgame;
Since you really should know better than to try to bait me into actually attacking you (that's what you want, right?)

GETTHEEBEHINDME :evilfrown:



"Where is your reply to the actual context of my opinions? I don't see any."

And you never will.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

152. Wait, So That's Not An Attack On Character Right? LOL

By your own admission you have no intention on discussing the context of my post. That means your only intention is to attack and bait no? Other than baiting, there is generally no other reason to respond to a post that you have no intention of addressing the context of. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the only reason I can think of. You say I'm playing a game, but I responded to the context of a thread topic. You responded with a personal smear and no intentions of addressing the actual point that was raised. You call that Operation Lie? Is that supposed to be mature somehow?

I also see that you know how to post lists of quote out of context. Kudos on that.

I stand behind any quote of mine you can find. Even in spite of you not posting the context.

So please spare me the further smears, attacks and flamebait replies. If you had no intention of addressing the context of the post, as per DU guidelines, than why have you even wasted your time responding to me in the first place? I'd ask next time that you avoid replying to me if you have nothing to comment on within the context of my post. It'll save us both a lot of trouble.

But here's the context again, in case you finally choose to discuss the whole point in the first place: I think a sentiment that all people in really big houses don't care about anybody else is ignorant, misguided and foolish, as well as a broad brush and generic smear. Do you agree or disagree?

[omega minimo]

154. And there's the reversal, more lies, the usual mindfuck

The quotes you say are "out of context" were in the post I replied to.

My original reply to you was to "Stop insulting people and go away."

"So please spare me the further smears, attacks and flamebait replies."

Another lie accusing others of what YOU do.

"I'd ask next time that you avoid replying to me if you have nothing to comment on within the context of my post. It'll save us both a lot of trouble."

I don't know what is wrong with you but I have started out each time telling you that you will not receive a reply when you begin with your bizarre insults and continuously insist on these insane games.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

155. And Yet You Keep Replying. Over And Over And Over, Each Time In A

personal manner.

You posted the following quote of mine, proceeded by what would be in my opinion the most bizarrely ironic reply I've seen:

"I'd ask next time that you avoid replying to me if you have nothing to comment on within the context of my post. It'll save us both a lot of trouble." My quote. I'd say it's pretty benign and fair. Pretty good advice too I'd say. Here's your reply:

"I don't know what is wrong with you but I have started out each time telling you that you will not receive a reply when you begin with your bizarre insults and continuously insist on these insane games."

Ok, first off, there ya go getting personal again. But even regardless, you've replied to me what, like 10 times now already? Each time not addressing the context? Any thread I dare step into that you end up being present in you always end up replying to me 20 times, each time personally smearing me instead of responding to the context. I don't play games. I respond honestly, bluntly and directly though admittedly sometimes passionately and emotionally. But I just simply speak my mind in a straightforward fashion and can hold firm in my opinions. I also will defend myself against character assassination and personal smear. I should learn to ignore them, but my damn impulse control disorder makes it tough to not reply sometimes.

But I will do my best to avoid responding any further in this already way too long useless in context subthread.

Goodnight

[omega minimo]

156. Stop Insulting People And Go Away

"Any thread I dare step into that you end up being present in you always end up replying to me 20 times, each time personally smearing me instead of responding to the context."


More lies. I quit replying to you, as you know. Or tell you to Quit Insulting People And Go Away and remind you that you prove yourself unworthy of attempts at "discussion."

Your mindgame. You win. Go away.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

157. You First.

[Rabrrrrrr]

175. This has been, truly, the most boring and unessential flamewar ever.

Geez.

It's not even funny the way you two completely misrepresent each other - in a good flamewar, people at least listen enough to take things out of context or misconstrue them.

Yours is just....... boring.:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:

[omega minimo]

178. Samo insanity like poison flypaper baited with bullshit

I got stuck this time. I ignored the jab at me but then "What An Ignorant Broad Brush Generality That Sentiment Is" was replied to someone else. Why does DU put up with that sort of abuse?

You're right it's pointless and boring and ususally shows on DU only as his presence followed by "Sub-Thread Deleted." Funny how often that happens :puke:

“Oh For Gods Sake...to so irrationally... one of the most misguided, extreme and illogical sentiments... demonize him... such a ridiculous manner. Let's hope you don't plan on going out and protesting at his funeral...What An Ignorant Broad Brush Generality That Sentiment Is....Gee, Yet Another Sentiment Of Broad Brush Ignorance.”

Those are all discussion killers, not starters. Anyone abusive who pretends they are owed some "discussion," about the "context," is mistaken. There's nothing to "listen enough to take things out of context or misconstrue them." There's no there there.

Game over.

:boring: :boring:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

180. And Yet It Was All True.

Let it go. The above poster is right. This has been a monumental waste of time and you never had any intention of anything other than smear anyway. Time to put it to rest now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

181. It Was A Tremendous Waste Of Time.

However, I would appreciate you showing me where I misrepresented anything. All I did was respond factually to the smears waged against me and did my best to not misrepresent anything. (You could do it in PM's if you want, this thread should probably die already LOL)

For the record, I hate these boring meaningless subthreads too. But I'll be damned if I don't defend myself against attack. I know sometimes I should just walk away from such baiting stupidity.

Sorry for boring you though, but the intent wasn't to entertain. At least not on my end. I knew the discussion was useless but I'm not going to just turn away while an abusive poster personally attacks me either.

But I do apologize that you had to read through that subthread of utter garbage.

[Rabrrrrrr]

183. Actually, it wasn't you - it was Omega and Jara Sang

who misrepresented.

I thought you were right - the initial statement, which I will not quote but summarize, that "anyone with a house that big has no regard for people" was, as you said, a broadbrush generalization rooted in ignorance, because it's patently false. It's as patently false as saying that people who own Hummers are racist, bigoted, homophobic closeted gays who vote Republican because they hate themselves.

It's really too bad that people can't see a statement that "Your position is rooted in ignorance" is a far, far, far cry from saying "You and your entire being are rooted in ignorance".

Some people - and not just the ones in this thread - take simple disagreement and challenges as personal attacks. If not for that, this flamewar would never have happened.

You were right to call out the bullshit ignorance of saying "people with houses that big have no regard for humanity".

[omega minimo]

186. LOL With Friends Like You, Who Needs Enemies?

:spray: :rofl:

Your soft-pedaling of the actual INYERFACE phrases of your buddy is hilarious. Maybe you could see better if you got up off your knees?

"It's really too bad that people can't see a statement that "Your position is rooted in ignorance" is a far, far, far cry from saying "You and your entire being are rooted in ignorance"."

Wow :wow: That sounds almost zenlike. What he actually said was:

“What An Ignorant Broad Brush Generality That Sentiment Is....Gee, Yet Another Sentiment Of Broad Brush Ignorance....Oh For Gods Sake...to so irrationally... one of the most misguided, extreme and illogical sentiments... such a ridiculous manner....”

And that was for STARTERS. What you seem to be missing is that I was not involved in that discussion with Jara Sang. I simply told him to cut the insults. And then to be bullied as if I SHOULD want to get in a discussion, or I OWE some comment on his point-- well, forget that. If you and he think that is the way to START discussions, don't be surprised if people get pissed or just don't even want to talk at all.

For someone whose sigline has a slam at "keyboard bullies" it's kinda weird how much keyboard bullying he does.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

187. "Maybe you could see better if you got up off your knees?"

That was completely inappropriate.

[Rabrrrrrr]

188. And everything he said was dissing the SENTIMENT, not the person.

Dissing a SENTIMENT is not an insult.

[omega minimo]

189. Well since you and mindcrime have that all worked out, maybe have it added

to DU Rules: that obnoxious, hostile opening lines are not insulting if they're dissing the "SENTIMENT" (whatever :wtf: ) THAT means, and not the person that they're directed at. :crazy:

Maybe a DU Glossary would help.


:rofl:

[omega minimo]

184. So, next time you want to "discuss," don't START with abusive insults

and quit creating these "subthread of utter garbage." You leave a trail of them. That is not my doing. The only time I am stuck in one is if I make the mistake of making ANY kind of reply to you.


"I knew the discussion was useless but I'm not going to just turn away while an abusive poster personally attacks me either."

And still you continue to lie about me. I point out that your INITIAL posts to me and Jara Sang were abusive and now THAT is the word YOU are using? :crazy: Same old mindcrime.

Since we're on the topic of "boring" I don't know why you are so fixated on doing this. Always.

Here's a thought. Put me on Ignore. Good bye.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

185. Let It Go Omega.

And for the record, I'll put whomever I want on ignore, and don't really require someone ordering me to do so.

Peace be with you anyway.

OMC.

[Jara sang]

53. Wow, what an argument. That's all you got? Name calling?

OPERATIONMINDCRIME, "Defender of the rich", "Crusader for the Havemores". If you think that a Hollywood producer thinks of anybody but himself, and yes, a house like that is testament to that way of thinking, then you must have very limited understanding of the world outside your door.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. Actually There Was No Name Calling Whatsoever.

All I saw was an accurate depiction of a sentiment expressed, and appropriate adjectives used to describe that sentiment. There was no direct name calling whatsoever so damned if I know where you got that from.

[NYCGirl]

64. Looks like Spelling was a pretty good Democrat.

http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Aaron_Spelling.php

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

65. Wait, Are Ya Saying The Sentiment Was Ignorant, Broad Brush And Misguided?

Thanks for some fact based reality NYCGirl.

[Jara sang]

70. I don't really care if he was a democrat.

Joe Leiberman is a Democrat, supposedly. LBJ was a Democrat yet he was owned by Halliburton. Now if spelling gave away most of his wealth I would have no problem with him. If it comes out that he gave more than %90 of his estate to charity then I will retract my previous statement.

[NYCGirl]

73. You know, if I earned that much money, I wouldn't give more than 90% of

it to charity. I guess that makes me a bad person.

He earned it honestly. He was a smart man in a cutthroat business and no one died in the process. He gave people a few hours of happiness. I think that's admirable, even if I didn't watch any of his shows myself.

[Jara sang]

76. How do you know he earned it honestly? n/t

[NYCGirl]

79. How do you know he didn't? He was a TV producer, not a munitions

manufacturer.

[Jara sang]

81. But you were the one who made that statement, it's your job to back it up.

He was probably one of the most powerful men on the planet. How do you know anything about his world?

[NYCGirl]

82. Well, I work in the entertainment business, so I probably know more

about it than you do.

[Jara sang]

86. And how do you know that I don't?

So you knew Mr. Spelling personally then I take it?

[NYCGirl]

90. How do I know you don't? Probably because the hatred and jealousy just

oozes out of your posts.

[Jara sang]

94. How do you know anything about me?

From a few solid yet sometimes emotional posts that I have made? Damn, it's pretty rude to be so presumptuous and throw around accusations like that. Is that the only reason why you responded to this post to get a quip in at me? Your style sounds like it belongs to another discussion board... now, which one could it be?

[NYCGirl]

98. Sorry I don't share your hatred of the wealthy, even those who worked

for what they earned.

[Jara sang]

100. I never said I hated anybody.

So you believe that Spelling was rewarded well for his work and that his obscene wealth is justified?

[Jara sang]

174. My what a coinky-dink. Warren Buffett gives away his fortune

It is possible for the insanely rich to do the right thing. Hey I was 5 percentage points off but hey %85 is a alot. Warren Buffett is to be commended, Arron Spelling is not. Check this out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1504296

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. Ya Know There's A Big Difference Between Sayin He Doesn't Care For Anybody

and saying he should've used every last penny of his to care for everybody as much as possible.

But regardless, I find both sentiments to be ridiculous.

[Jara sang]

177. Ridiculous huh? Warren Buffett doesn't agree with you.

I said %90, Warren gave away 85% of his wealth. Warren realizes that he can do great things with his wealth other than build monuments to himself, but if you want to admire the cultural wasteland that Arron Spelling created then by all means go ahead.

[Divernan]

133. Total donations were $121,600 since 1979 -- average $5,800/yr.

For someone with a mansion with 123 rooms, two of which were exclusively for gift wrapping, that's
doesn't seem like much. With all the residuals from all his series, and halfway intelligent investment advice, he had to be pulling down multi-millions each year. If his income was $5 mill/yr., his donations were about 1/10th of 1 percent. Did he open that mansion up for fund raisers, the way Streisand opened her home? If so, great.

Yes, before you explode, I know he didn't have to give one red cent to any political candidate. I just think if you do the math, and knowing only what your link tells us about his level of political donations he wasn't very generous, particularly compared to working people I know who donate 3-5 percent of their net income to candidates. I don't think he's earned a spot in the Dem. donors hall of fame.

[northzax]

142. does that include anyone who lives in such opulence?

have you seen the Presidential Palace in Caracas? wowza!

good to know: "Jara Sang: Hugo Chavez doesn't care about ordinary people."

now you explain the difference. At least Spelling used his own money to build and maintain his residence.

[Jara sang]

176. What the fuck are you talking about???

:shrug:

[northzax]

192. 'anyone who lives in that opulent of a house'

doesn't care about people. Hugo Chavez lives in an even more opulent palace, ergo, Hugo Chavez doesn't care about people, right?

[Divernan]

62. His house is an obscenity! Can you say "global warming"?

That house makes McMansions look like hovels. It should have its own zipcode!

Please consider how much energy it takes to heat/cool something of that size. And there were only two people living there (not counting the servants). Saying you couldn't wait to design a "home" (?!?!?!) like that, is like endorsing tax cuts for the wealthiest one percent in the naive hope that someday you too will attain that level of income. But hey, don't listen to me. Send a photo of that monstrosity to Al Gore and get his opinion on the negative impact it has on the atmosphere. In his movie, he says he and his family have decided to become CO2 "neutral", and to the extent can't (for example, cause he flies so many places), they contribute to pro-environment groups.

[hfojvt]

51. well Ben Affleck I think bought a 26 million estate in Florida

and gave JLo $300,000 jewelry, but he still did some campaigning against Bush.

[MJP]

43. He was no J.J. Abrams. n/t

[hfojvt]

46. Charlie's Angels might still be my High School's claim to fame

or is it infamy? Cheryl Ladd nee Stoppelmoor graduated a mere ten years before me and popped into my trig class at the height of her fame.
I thought this was an interesting commentary:

"And it sure wasn't any kind of blow for sisterhood, or any kind of improvment on the image of women, as the cast and crew originally, laughingly contended. The Angels'chief M.O. was to go undercover. Over the course of the series they went undercover in such shockingly non-traditional female roles as fashion models, inmates in a women's prison, playmate centerfolds, nurses, massage parlour workers, exotic dancers, figure skaters, beauty contestants, stewardesses, cheerleaders and of course call girls. As Max Allan Collins quipped in The Best of Crime & Detective TV, they did "more damage to the cause of feminism than the Susan B. Anthony dollar."

I mean, sheesh, even Barbie was a better role model. It didn't take long for even the show's own stars to deride its blatant sexism. As Farrah Fawcett-Majors noted at the time, "When the show was number three, I figured it was our acting. When it got to be number one, I decide it could only be because none of us wears a bra.""

http://www.thrillingdetective.com/angels.html

[Divernan]

50. Excellent quote -supports my post that escapism can be exploitative.

and that kind of escapism entertainment is not to be lauded. Basically, what she
saying is that Charlie's Angels was soft porn.

[Divernan]

48. All escapism entertainment isn't equal - it is called the boob tube

Some of it can be silly and goofy; some can be educational and thought provoking as well as entertaining. And some of it can be entertaining while endorsing some really poor social values. Looking at the list of his series, I think he squandered a lot of talent and effort and money on the latter form of escapist entertainment. Other than the Mod Squad, which was good for its era, and The Band Played On, we have the likes of Seventh Heaven, The Love Boat and Charlie's Angels - maudlin relgious garbage, someday-my-prince-will-come fantasies, and surgically altered, hyper-sexy women as every teenage boy's pinup and anorectic teenage girl's role model.

Every performing artist/producer/director has high points & low points in their careers, but if they are financially successful, they CAN choose to become more discerning in their choice of roles/projects. Spelling had the power to force the networks or cable channels to take some chances with bold projects, as in The Band Played On - but that was only one movie, back in 1993. Even if he had gotten too old and tired to tackle something like that again, he could have bankrolled some up and coming directors/producers.

Yes, we all need escape/entertainment - but Spelling chose not to produce the level of programming that we got from Norman Lear (All in the Family, and it's spinoff, Maude (Edith's mouthy cousin from Tuckahoe), and Maude's spinoff, Good Times (Florida Evans started out as Maude's housekeeper). What about Gene Reynolds/Larry Gelbhart's Mash? And Star Trek may have had some extremely sexy babes in great little uniforms, but the story lines were basically the triumph of good over evil(without reducing it to glorifying a Christian god, or angels versus devils), and reaching for the stars, and learning to get along with other "intelligent forms of life", i.e,. make peace, not war.
For escapism, I also really like the Brit programs like Benny Hill, Are You Being Served, Fawlty Towers, Monty Python, the Prisoner, Inspector Morse, etc. (The Archie Bunker character was based on the character of Alf in the BBC sitcom, Til Death Do Us Part.)I also know that it is far too easy for me to just veg out in front of the tube when I could be doing other things to ease stress which would be much better for my body and soul.

But, OK, OK, I'm not the culture police - these comments reflect my tastes. Spelling did donate to a lot of political candidates, and he entertained a lot of people, but in terms of his artistic contriubutions, they were quantity more than quality. He lived a long and apparently mostly happy life, so may whatever god he believed in rest his soul. His death does trigger an occasion to consider the kind of entertainment we have in our society, and how it may have changed from the 70's to now. Don't forget the Roman emperors' theory of bread and circuses for the Roman masses. So I thank Omega Minimo for starting this thread, and don't everybody get so defensive.

[omega minimo]

95. Very well put. I K&R this post

:toast:

Bread and circuses indeed. And thanks for pointing out that there are OTHER ways of doing television series. Odd that the real snitty replies treat it as if it's "either/or" and life won't be FUN any more with Aaron Spelling.

The biggest crime he will answer for at the gates of wherever is the lame, limp, pathetic, trendy, lame, whiny, babygirl, pathetic behavior of those women on "90210" and the generations of kids who copied that pathetic behavior. And the TV stare. Turned back the feminist clock to the Stone Age.

:yourock:

[RandomKoolzip]

49. Aaron Spelling fired the air traffic controllers in 1981!

Aaron Spelling cut education spending in the early 80's!

Aaron Spelling blew up the space shuttle!

Aaron Spelling was actually Skeletor!

Aaron Spelling can kick a soccer ball 190 miles!

After Aaron Spelling visited the Virgin Islands, they were known as "The Islands!"

Aaron Spelling knew every Chinese person who ever lived!

Aaron Spelling built Hitler's bunker out of toothpicks and horsedung!

Aaron Spelling had a farm! E-i-e-i-o!

Aaron Spelling had a birthmark in the shape of Vlad the Impaler's penis in the center of his forehead!

Aaron Spelling invented HAARP weaponry!

Aaron Spelling caused the 2004 tsunami!

Aaron Spelling could suck the ink out of a black Sharpie and spit it out green!

Aaron Spelling's tuna casserole was to die for!

Aaron Spelling owned an enormous flying panda bear named Steve!

Aaron Spelling's left eyebrow had it's own area code!

Aaron Spelling could shoot 20 grams of pure heroin and run a marathon! It's true!

Aaron Spelling could pick a Kryptonite bike lock with an ordinary ball-point pen!

Aaron Spelling whupped Batman's ass!

Look, The guy was responsible for a bunch of shitty TV shows, but he didn't set policy. You may as well blame Les Moonves or Fred Silverman for NAFTA - it makes just about as much sense. Hell, I grew up watching some of his shows and I've been a true-blue liberal my whole life; what's my excuse?

[ScreamingMeemie]

80. Best. Post. Ever.

:yourock:

[RandomKoolzip]

85. Thank you, Mrs. Grumpy.

:hi:

[ghostsofgiants]

132. This thread was making my head hurt until you showed up.

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

146. Well said!

:)

[progmom]

153. i love you

:loveya:

[RandomKoolzip]

161. Stop insulting people and go away.

No, I'm kidding.

Consider this a mutual thing: :loveya: :hi:

[arwalden]

170. ~~

:thumbsup:

[xmas74]

199. I wish I could recommend just one post.

This would be it. Brilliant.

[Wetzelbill]

204. I will tolerate a lot of things but damned if I am going to sit here

and allow somebody to bad-mouth Skeletor! :)

[LeftHander]

59. Of all of those shows...I saw one or two episodes of Choke Boat...

That is it.

Change your life.

Take the TV Free challenge. Turn it off for 30 days.

If you are always sitting in shit how would know what anything else feels like?

[Initech]

61. Next on a very special "7th Heaven"...

Which was, oh yeah, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING EPISODE!!!!

[hfojvt]

63. Not Fantasy Island?

Those were the two I watched - Love Boat and Fantasy Island, although how much credit/blame should an executive producer have vs. 'writers' for the show? And some of the shows have multiple executive producers.

[ScreamingMeemie]

66. It's television. Entertainment. Remember fun?

Come on. This is ridiculous. Or are we to watch 24 hour news and social commentaries? Sorry, I don't want to live like that.


Jealousy of the success of others makes one look foolish.

[Jara sang]

84. Television isn't about entertainment.

It isn't called programming for nothing. Television is about selling.

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. You look at it how you wish. If it isn't the "news" (or what's supposed

to pass for it) it's entertainment. It's ridiculous for OP to have their panties in a twist about this.

[Jara sang]

89. You don't believe that TV is about selling a product?

Wow! There is a reason why people like Spelling are paid ungodly amounts of money.

[ScreamingMeemie]

102. Is there a problem with me being entertained by "Charmed"...

Should I be out marching over that? Yes! Oh yes! Now I can see how important it is. :sarcasm:

Entertainment. Period. I don't have a problem with his success. Sorry. I've got more important things to worry about. Namely seeing more Dems elected this fall.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

124. Of course programs are the fillers for commercials

Aaron Spelling filled the space well

[CanuckAmok]

163. You are the product.

If you look at the structure of TV broadcasting as commerce, this is how it works:

Do you get paid to watch tv? No.

Do you pay to watch tv (not factoring-in the middleman bullshit racket of cable/pay tv)? No.

So who pays the enormous bill of commercial broadcasting?

The sponsor/advertiser is the customer.

The station/network is the seller.

The viewers are the product. Our attention is being sold to the advertiser by the broadcaster. The advertiser hopes to convert our attention to purchases.

What do we get out of the deal (theoretically)? Entertainment. Information. Stimulus.



As long as you understand that and willingly enter into the deal, what's the problem? Want to watch a six-hour marathon of "Cops: Black Neighbourhood Beatdown" instead of "I, Claudius"? Fill your boots. But don't expect TV to reward you for your attention; that's not the broadcasters' job or intention.

[CanuckAmok]

164. He also gave us Tori, who's great in the sack. n/t

.

[LostinVA]

68. Also Remember, Aaron Spelling also did:

Charmed
7th Heaven (a good show, gang)
A Season in Purgatory
After Jimmy
And the Band Played On
Hart to Hart
Soapdish
The Best Little Girl in the World
The Boy in the Plastic Bubble
Family (one of the best dramas EVER)
The Rookies
Burke's Law

etc.etc.etc.

And, I loved 90210. And I'm not ashamed of it.

[dicknbush]

71. I have to say I have heard of a lot of these shows but....

I really can't remember ever watching any of them. I am just not that interested in serial TV programing. Any way you are right it is cheesy goofy stuff but cheesy goofy stuff is a staple of humanity it seems. In any organized society there will always be this kind of pop culture stuff. I guess at the end of the day Spelling gave work to many people who lived and loved. They worked hard got married had children maybe or maybe there were gays who fell in love and have lived happily...whatever at the end of the day and the end of his life his desires and energy made life better for alot of people and for those who chose not to watch his programing that includes me well I am no worse off for not having all paid attention to this stuff but if others enjoyed it so be it. I do have to admit I had heard about the JR shooting and all that but I did not watch the show. Any way peace to him and his family. Oh and don't forget about the Plastic surgeon who probably paid for his pool with the work he had to do on spellings daughter...I can't think of her name right now which is a good thing I think.

[Marr]

72. Oh, c'mon. That's popular entertainment. Chaucer fits the same mold.

In his time, his stuff was low-brow, mass appeal crap. Fart jokes, slapstick... it's chock full of that stuff. Give it some time, and it's classic. We're seeing the same thing happen with Robert E. Howard's stuff now- with all the pulp stories he wrote in the 20's and 30's.

Don't turn your nose up to something that lots of people enjoy just because lots of people enjoy it. That's very snobbish, in my opinion.

[Charlie Brown]

101. I've heard Dickens was considered the ultimate schlock writer in his day

All of his "books" were originally serialized in popular print journals, pretty much the equivalent of network TV in those days.

We would never have heard of Dickens or a million other "classic" writers if their works had not been popular with the public.

[Marr]

135. Exactly- yep.

The pulps of their day. Wildly popular, but beneath the contempt of "serious writers".

[RebelOne]

87. The only shows I ever watched were Love Boat

and Mod Squad and as far as I know my mind has not been numbed. They were entertainment and that's all.

[mountainvue]

91. Can we please stop attacking our own? Do you know

Spelling's life story? He came from nothing. You might want to take a look at this.

http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Aaron_Spelling.php

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

92. That Obviously Isn't Enough For Some People.

Some people want him to have spend every last dollar on democratic causes before they're satisfied.

I'm with ya though. He was a good man and God rest his soul.

[AlCzervik]

99. did you get that link i sent you re Cape Cod?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. I'm Looking At It Right Now! Thanks For The Link!

I'm going to look it over and I'll let ya know what my wife and I think. Thanks for your help and info, it is appreciated. :)

[AlCzervik]

108. anytime, have a happy vacation.

:hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

114. It Looks Beautiful There. My Wife Loves Cape Cod But I've Never Been There

She used to go with her parents all the time. It really does look beautiful and peaceful there. I'll definitely keep this in the running, I just have to make sure there will be enough to keep the youngins occupied :) (can't have the 11 month old in the sun all the time, sun and fair skinned infants don't mix too well LOL)

Thanks again for your kindness. The place really does look like a really good one and a good pick for a vacation spot.

[Jara sang]

97. So we should applaud his wealth and ability to turn viewers into zombies?

Because he came from nothing?

[ScreamingMeemie]

105. I wouldn't call myself a zombie. Thank you.

Most of us can separate reality from what we see on the boob tube.

[Divernan]

125. A college degree from SMU isn't exactly "nothing".

nt

[Fox Mulder]

96. I like 'Charmed'.

And I'm very liberal, very intelligent and well informed on what's going on with the country.

[ScreamingMeemie]

106. No you're not. You're a zombie... Can't you see? We need to

realize that we have to chuck out our t.v.s if we want to be "real" liberals. :sarcasm:

:hi: :hi:

[Fox Mulder]

110. That is pure BS.

Some people need to realise that many (if not most) liberals do like watching tv. I'm a sort of couch potato and I'm as liberal as you can get.

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

116. Here at our house you would be welcome.

:hi: In fact, you'd fit right in. :)

[Fox Mulder]

118. LOL.

:hi:

:)

[Jara sang]

115. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that televisions purpose is not to entertain but to sell products. There is no denying that.

[Telly Savalas]

148. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

The networks would have problems selling their ad spots if their shows bored the fuck out of people.

[Jara sang]

182. Yes, but the "shows" are hooks for the ads.

The shows are lead-ins for the ads. In some cases the shows have product placement in them so the shows themselves become ads.

[tammywammy]

109. That's impossible

You can't be a good self-respecting democrat and enjoy campy teeeeveeee shows. You're responsible for the dumbing down of American society and should be ashamed. Well, really why do you even own a tv in the first place. You must sell it immediately to retain your liberal club card.

:sarcasm:

[Fox Mulder]

113. How much can I get for it?

:silly:

[MindPilot]

107. And by the end of this thread I see the irony

that I'm spending time and money watching a snarkfest about the vapidity of the things we find entertaining.

[omega minimo]

117. Ah MindPilot, subtlety is thy middle name

Irony? In an Aaron Spelling production? Not so much.......... oh wait, did he do "The O.C."? That show's funny. :yoiks:

[Charlie Brown]

112. I would argue the internet is equally responsible for dumbing down society

Are those of you blasting Spelling and TV prepared to chunk your connection-services and join a monastery?

[Balbus]

119. I think I watched every one of those shows!!

Thanks for the memories. A great man has left us :(

[Behind the Aegis]

122. This has to be one of the dumbest posts I have seen in awhile.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

123. Although I've seen other silly stuff in GD, thank goodness this was moved

to the lounge.

Aaron Spelling was not a secret mole sent to glorify Reagonomics. He was a great television producer who mirrored society's interests with all of his shows.

While I don't watch much TV and mostly consider it an idiot box, the argument has always existed as to whether art is imitating life or life is imitating art. Either way, the man was masterful at his game and for that he is commended. Most of the shows he produced has such broad appeal that they had great staying power.

Sure he did a couple things that were objectionable....building that eyesore of an estate and giving Tory a career to name two...but being villified as though he single handedly fathered the ME GENERATION is pure crap.

RIP Aaron and thanks for having a good eye for entertainment.

[omega minimo]

158. "Villify"? Dude, that's harsh!

Silly, ridiculous, call it what they may, DUers are welcome, especially as the OP thread title was so over the top that CLEARLY there was a tongue planted in a cheek somewhere............... "dog treats"? Maybe it's a wonder that it lasted in GD as long as it did.

And yet there were some folks who "got it"-- who had a more flexible awareness of the relationship b/w life and culture and media and round and round. The folks who got annoyed and even insulted by this seem to all have in common a tendency for Black and White thinking.

Your post was so obviously thoughtful and simultaneously a bit huffy that I wanted to check in and say :hi:

"mostly consider it an idiot box, the argument has always existed as to whether art is imitating life or life is imitating art. Either way, the man was masterful at his game and for that he is commended. Most of the shows he produced has such broad appeal that they had great staying power. "

Art and life reflect each other and the arguments on this thread by the snitty seemed to want to argue about which came first with Spelling, which seems kind of pointless. His shows' "broad appeal" and "great staying power" had significant impacts on American culture for generations, hence the (tongue in cheek) he's got a "lot of cheesy crap to answer for."

I guess the way that notion is received in an OP depends on one's appreciation, awareness, ingestion, indigestion, sense of humor, sense of irony or complete unquestioning acceptance of cheese and cheesiness. And maybe the "90210" spore has infected far more of the population than I had feared :evilgrin:

There were some interesting comments by the people who got it-- I'm wondering if we are so educationally comparmentalized now that unless one has "Media Studies" on the transcript, this sort of playful, open, ambiguous invitation to reflect on how Spelling's TV reign affected our culture and our lives is off limits.

But your thoughtful and huffy comments were the best examples of the "either/or" thinking that showed on this thread.

"Aaron Spelling was not a secret mole sent to glorify Reagonomics."

"...being villified as though he single handedly fathered the ME GENERATION is pure crap."

I didn't say anything of the sort. What's most interesting about this thread is that we really can't discuss the dance between life and art or even recognize how powerful it is. We love to carp about MSM and media conglomerates, but may be largely blind to its effects.

"He was a great television producer who mirrored society's interests with all of his shows."

And generations of people looking in that mirror tried to ape the styles and behavior they saw there. Thank you, Mr. Spelling!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

160. Thanks for reaming your thoughtful post up my ass :)

But you sort of busted yourself in claiming they all tried to APE it...perhaps he was aping them. After all, Aaron Spelling didn't invent fashion whoring, he simply capitalized on it.

Feel free to accuse me of black and white thinking but if this thread is supposed to be some inquiry into a higher consciousness regarding the brainwashing of the masses by television...well...I'll skip enlightenment 101 today. It looks more like a nose thumbing at those who simply cracked open a soda and watched at the end of a long hard day. I bow to your superior intellect. Ok I don't...but that's what you wanted to hear.

[omega minimo]

162. OUch!

:spray:

"But you sort of busted yourself in claiming they all tried to APE it...perhaps he was aping them. After all, Aaron Spelling didn't invent fashion whoring, he simply capitalized on it."

Did I say "all"? That's what I don't get-- the either/or thing. Oh well.

"What I wanted to hear" was that there is middle ground, openess to ideas..............nevermind.

No more ambiguitiy.......promise! :think:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

165. Of course there is

Now to frame your OP in a manner that invites them :shrug:

Look. You won't get any argument from me that television brainwashes.
You won't get any argument from me that television is selling more than products.
You won't get any argument from me that television can and does dumb down people and has an effect on culture when it isn't busy reflecting it.
But frankly, there is much more to it than that. And it was slightly less than sensitive to bring it up on the occasion of the guy's death as though the red button to what will ultimately destroy our culture was in his hands and he pushed it with a bunch of cheesy shows. He's no more part of the machine than you and I are. We watched.

[omega minimo]

166. Cool

:thumbsup: not "any argument"

"And it was slightly less than sensitive to bring it up on the occasion of the guy's death"

it was flippant and so obviously over the top, as frothy as one of his mindless shows. My bad.

"....as though the red button to what will ultimately destroy our culture was in his hands and he pushed it with a bunch of cheesy shows. He's no more part of the machine than you and I are."

He contributed to it and reflected it and he is a much bigger cog in the machine than you and I are.

"We watched."

I can only claim having watched "The Mod Squad."

:toast:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

167. Give him credit

At least he didn't produce "reality TV"

And of all his shows, the Mod Squad hasn't really stood the test of time and talk about brainwashing??? Everyone knows narcs are the most crooked cops there are. How many people do you think talked to cops when they shouldn't have because they thought they all were like Linc, or Pete, or Julie?

(guess I blew my cover. I watched it too :D )

[L A Woman]

126. You have over A THOUSAND POSTS on a message board...

and you are criticizing those who watched Melrose Place? You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[huskerlaw]

129. ...

:rofl:

:applause:

[JVS]

200. LOL!

[huskerlaw]

128. Most. Ridiculous. Post. Ever.

Not even worthy of debate.

:eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

139. Ha. Maybe I saw your post subliminally.

:thumbsup:

[Midlodemocrat]

130. And 20 years from now, at a yet unnamed forum, yet to be created

the posters, will be chiding us for watching Commander in Chief, or Lost or Jon Stewart or getting news off Democratic Underground.

I am pretty smart, I think. I have a pretty demanding job and a pretty demanding life. I watch TV to chill out and relax. I don't think that makes me a contributor to the dumbing down of America any more than Aaron Spelling. I watched his shows, I liked several of them.

[Beware the Beast Man]

134. First Olive Garden, and now this.

:eyes:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

136. This is moderately contemptible.

I don't know anything about Aaron Spelling, or his legacy, except that he has just died, and frankly I don't care.

Someone's death is a time for their friends to grieve, and their enemies to keep quiet if they don't have anything positive to say.

It is impossible to show too much respect for the berieved, and showing too little is despicable.

If Spelling was a bad man, then wait a couple of months before trumpeting that to the world.

"Thee not carketh care, nor slumber
Nothing but the small cold worm
Fretteth thine enshrowded form,
Neath the green that folds thy grave,
Let them rave."

But he does have relicts, and care and slander can still hurt them, so if you didn't like him then save it for some other time.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

140. Thank You. That Was Very Well Put And Captured My Feelings As Well.

[Misunderestimator]

137. Most ridiculous thread ever. Congratulations.

Are we supposed to deride every pop-entertainment purveyor now, after they die? WTF?

[omega minimo]

151. You're right. It's ridiculous. And true. And funny. And serious.

You're not "supposed" to do anything but :think:

There's some really good comments here on how this is related. And that jokey one that's supposed to show a laundry list of things NOT a result of the existence of Aaron Spelling (May He Rest In Peace) is funny. Is it supposed to prove Spelling's show had zero cultural impact?

The thing missing here is people think "either/or" and get all bent instead of thinking :think: maybe or how or if or thinking, sometimes, anything at all.

This was in GD and the Lounge ain't the place for "deep" or sociopoliticultural thinking so

You're right. It's ridiculous. :hi:

[enigmatic]

138. Aaron Spelling is the reason I have hair on my palms!

I curse that bastard for foisting Charlie's Angels on me when I was a horny 12 year old boy! Damn you Aaron Spelling!

[Wetzelbill]

205. so that is why grandma

said you were going to go blind.

[bigwillq]

141. 90210 rocked!

For real! :bounce:


Regardless of what you may feel about his shows, the man did just die. Have a little respect. Thank you.

[Blue_Tires]

144. Starsky and Hutch?

you sir, are a blasphemer!

eh, but you're probably right about the rest of those (i wouldn't know, because i never watched any of them anyways):crazy: :silly: :shrug: :nuke:

[Mutley]

145. Was Aaron Spelling really that important that he requires a 145 post

flame-war? :eyes:

Oy.

[billyskank]

147. And the answer is

apparently yes. :D


:P











































:hug:

[Mutley]

149. I see.

:D

:hug:

[LSK]

159. how is this flamefest not locked?

:shrug:

[NMMNG]

169. Oh my

A "You are a mental midget if you use your TV to view anything but documentaries and news" thread. How original.


Not.

[omega minimo]

171. Oh goodie

Another humorless, either/or "it's All or Nothing" easier-to-miss-the-point altogether snark reply. How sorry I am for confusing people.

As someone has pointed out here, there are other ways to do TV series than a false choice b/w Spelling schlock and nothing but "doumentaries and news." That black-and-white-thinking is exactly the kind of anti-intellectual, "Latte Liberal Elitist" shite the Rove gang wants
people to think-- and vote for W cuz they could "have a beer with him"!!

Hey. I've already promised! No more ambiguity!!!! :hi:

[billyskank]

172. What are you if you have no TV?

:shrug:

[NMMNG]

190. TV-less

:P

[Skittles]

179. HOW could you leave off TORI ???

she is the worst of his products

[Starbucks Anarchist]

191. Did you know Aaron Spelling also created the Ebola virus?

:eyes:

Seriously, Aaron Spelling was hardly the Antichrist. He made some cheesy fluff, but he did it well and hurt nobody in the process -- sounds like an okay guy to me.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

193. While I didn't watch many of Mr. Spelling's shows, I will say this

A lot of Spelling’s shows were examples of creativity. Indeed someone who was the driving force between a variety of shows with such wide ranging themes and concepts must have had a very creative and imaginative personality. They were designed for the purpose of entertainment and enjoyment. Whether you consider that Spelling’s work was “soft, gooey, pre-packaged, mind-numbing mental dog treats” is your own personal opinion and one which you are entitled to but keep in mind that it is just one interpretation of his work out of many potential interpretations of his work. Keep in mind that to many people it provided a way to relax, to unwind after a hard day’s school/work and to have their imaginations or creativity challenged by seeing new situations or scenarios unfold on television every week.

And some of Mr. Spelling’s shows were also opportunities to expand the viewer’s education and, yes, awareness of political and social issues. Take “7th Heaven” for instance. I was an occasional and infrequent viewer of the show and yet the shows I watched covered issues as racial prejudice, the bombing of African-American Churches in the South that occurred during the mid-1990s and the plight of the Lost Boys of Sudan. That’s probably more than you find out on news channels such as CNN and NBC these days. Admittedly I am too young to remember much about “Dynasty” but it provided us with a probably exaggerated look into the lives of the rich and famous from which you could draw your own conclusions about lifestyle, wealth and the like.

Mr Spelling seems to have been a Democrat, if you look at his political contributions. He supported progressives such as Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, Patrick Leahy, John Kerry and Daniel Inouye –among others (I know he also gave $500 to Al D’Amato but that’s much less than he gave the Democratic candidates). Obviously he put at least some of his wealth into supporting progressive causes and values. He rose from rags to riches and yet still retained a strong sense of social justice and compassion. He used thousands of dollars of his wealth and power and influence to contribute to the campaigns the campaigns of men and women who have consistently made America and the world a better place through their progressive and visionary perspectives on domestic and foreign policy.

To compare someone like Mr. Spelling to Karl Rove is deeply unfortunate IMO. The real TV moguls who deserve credit for dumbing down our media culture are people such as Rupert Murdoch and the bosses of CNN, NBC and the like who have a duty and obligation to make sure that their networks provide the best in terms of news and current affairs and who have consistently failed in their duties. Mr. Spelling specialized in entertainment. He was under no obligation to do what news bosses and current affair show managers are supposed to do. His role was to entertain people, make people laugh and sometimes to make people think. And he did that and he succeeded

RIP Mr. Spelling. And my thoughts, prayers and condolences to your family

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

195. Very Well Said And Very Good Points.

:thumbsup:

[Jokerman]

194. Happy to say I've never watched any of the shows listed. n/t

Not that I actively avoid his work, I just watch very little TV.

[LanternWaste]

196. Mmmmm.... guilty pleasures.

Watched 'Charlie's Angels', 'Mod Squad' & 'Starsky & Hutch' when they were first-run.

I used to tape BH90210 to watch it when I got off work (my first guilty pleasure). But, man! Did I get a lot of crap from my friends & room-mate for that....


But to be completely honest, the shows he's responsible for don't really seem to be any better or any worse than *all* the other crap that's out there in the Nielsen Top 100 Shows.

[Blue_Tires]

198. although in Spelling's defense

some of the shows playing these days make his stuff look like masterpiece theatre

[JVS]

201. This is obviously a matter of such importance that you brought it...

up before he died. Oh wait, you didn't. I guess it must not have been so important to remember the heinous crimes of Aaron Spelling that we didn't need his death as a reminder of them.

[CanuckAmok]

202. I just want to know what we're supposed to call spelling bees from now on.

.

[JVS]

203. Competitive Orthography