What do you think about jazz? More than just Yay or Nay!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

Right, so if we're going to go on a poll craze around here, I might as well join in! What do you all think about jazz--music, that is? I know jazz is a particularly difficult idiom to define, but for these purposes, please consider jazz to be basically anything "jazzy" or "swingin'" you could think of (early ragtime/swing/big band up through cool jazz and bebop and on to jazz fusion, etc.).

DO NOT, however, include so-called "smooth jazz" in your decision. Kenny G, et. al ARE NOT to be considered "jazz" for the purposes of this poll.

Thanks, and happy voting!

On Edit: PLEASE, if you don't mind, post what you voted. I voted for the second option, simply because I do not think I could choose one idiom to be above all others. I like some idioms more than others, but the idioms I do like, I like equally.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

1. Kick--Merely voting in a poll does not keep it from falling, folks!

:kick:

[SteppingRazor]

2. I voted that jazz is merely pretty good...

Charles Bukowski once said of his art, in his poem "To the Whore Who Took My Poems,"

"But as God said,
crossing his legs,
I see where I have made plenty of poets
but not so very much
poetry."


The same could easily be said of jazz I think. There's an awful lot of jazz out there, but most of it blows. What little I like, I like a lot. I'll give it that much.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

4. I have actually not heard of JAZZ that particularly blows, and what is

good in jazz, is nigh-on unbeatably good. There are many musicians who might consider themselves "jazzers," but most of the "jazz" that blows, to me, is commercialized "jazz". (*coough*Kenny G*cough*).

Think about it: when was the last time jazz, pure, unadulterated jazz, not "jazz-rock" or "jazz-pop" but JAZZ, was on the Billboard 100? Not for many, many years. Jazz is not so much "underground" as it is simply a HUGE part of American (and now international) culture--so vast that it has been taken into other musical forms. But there are millions, I bet, of people just in the US who play jazz standards still, whether professionally or recreationally, and I bet that a fair amount of those people, while not genii, are pretty good--and pretty passionate--though of course there are "suckers." To me, however, besides "smooth jazz," jazz seems vastly less exploited commercially than other musical forms, with the possible exception of classical.

[SteppingRazor]

15. That assumes that a less commercially exploited genre...

is necessarily better, which isn't the case.

Additionally, one of the main problems I have with jazz is the reliance on standards. When early band leaders played standards, they were playing the popular songs of their day -- why, then, do we insist on re-creating these same standards? Shouldn't contemporary musicians be creating and/or charting for jazz the standards of our own era? If I hear one more jazz combo take on "Take Five," I feel like I'd strangle them with the strings of their own upright bass.

Plus, it's not just the smooth jazz or Kenny G stuff that I find to be terribly crappy. A lot of the really "out" stuff is equally crappy in its own way. Free or avant garde jazz, lacking any melodic structure, is crap. It may be impressive to a musical theorist that everyone in the band is playing the fifth root of the Mixolydian mode or whatever, but to the average listener, it sounds like shit. And what the average listener thinks should be of value, if music is to speak to the culture at large -- which is, in then end, the whole purpose of music. It is the universal language, after all. As Tony Wilson says in the film "24 Hour Party People": "Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does."

That quote may not be true of all jazz, but it's true of quite a bit of it, particularly in the post-bop era. Where have you gone, Dizzy Gillespie?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

38. LOL--It's all so true, and yet...

I love it anyway. What can I say? I'm out there.

;)

:hi:

[AmandaRuth]

3. I LOVE jazz....

especially playing it.

On edit: Sorry, Mom. This is Mini, guys!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

5. MMR!

:hi:

:D

Yah, jazz is hot stuff, cat!

[giant_robot]

6. I chose option #2.

I love jazz and I think jazz musicians are among the most talented in the music business, but I also like variety.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

10. Variety is always good!

:)

I love jazz, but I also love much of classic rock, etc.

What interests me perhaps even above jazz music is the jazz culture, especially during its heyday. Think of how Miles, Trane, et. al. lived--I bet that the majority of jazz cats, especially those who "made it" big time, had some sort of problem either with the abuse of alcohol or various "illicit" substances, or with unstable home life, or with both. The percentage of creative genii--especially, it seems, among jazz musicians--in the history of the world who have had these "problems" is astoundingly high.

[SteppingRazor]

18. Yes, jazz was full of troubled people, but no more so than any other genre

Sure, Charlie Parker did a boatload of heroin. But I'd put Sid Vicious up against him in the Pepsi Heroin Challenge any day of the week! ;)


Alcohol and drug dependence isn't really genre specific. Nor is it even musician-specific. It seems to be a common plague of the creative mind. After all, it's not as though writers are exactly known to be teetotalers (ahem. Not this one, anyway. :evilgrin: And I've got everyone from Hunter Thompson and William Burroughs to Papa Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald standing with me under the banner of the Utterly Warped)

And look at painters. Van Gogh, for example, was known to quaff an amount of absinthe that would make even the stoutest heart quiver with fear.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

36. Yes, indeedy.

Creative people in general are screwed.

Uh-oh.....

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[Wetzelbill]

7. Kenny G rocks!

Or not. :)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

11. You had my heart racing for a minute.

:P

[Wetzelbill]

14. I have that effect

I always skate on thin ice. Part of me loves the danger, but the other part knows somebody is going to shoot me someday. :)

[progmom]

8. i loves the jazz

I love many types of music, but jazz is by far my favorite.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

12. Well, of course you do!

Power to the jazzers!

:D

:hi:

[billyskank]

20. There's only one answer to that

No shit! :7










:loveya:

[tjwmason]

25. Don't believe you.

:P

I would ask you to prove it - but then you probably would...and I'd get totally lost in your commentary. :hug:

[hfojvt]

9. Johnny Haits Jazz

but I would differentiate between jazz and swing.
Of course, I know as little about jazz as I do about beer and stuffed peppers, meaning that I refuse to learn more because I cannot stand the smell of them.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

13. Interesting.

Have you had a bad experience, particularly, with jazz, or is it that you just can't get into it?

I would agree that there are definite differences between jazz and swing, but for the purposes of this extremely unscientific poll, the two are enough alike to be brought together, I think.

;)

[kiraboo]

16. Jazz is just great for the musicians.

For the rest of us, it's horrible, especially modern jazz which is WITHOUT SOUL.

[billyskank]

21. Oh no, lots of non-musicians like jazz

but too much modern stuff is extremely inaccessible, it's true. You don't dig jazz, and that's fine.

[tjwmason]

23. I'd be interested to see whether the inaccessibility continues.

It followed a similar path to classical music post-war - when one thinks of the works of Berio, Stockhausen, Boulez et al. they have such a high degree of intellectualism that they are utterly inaccessible to the vast majority of the population. I have to be either stone-cold sober and highly alert, or blind-drunk to be able to listen to them. But then right at the end of the 20th century, figures such as Paert, Gorecki and even the long-haired hippy chum of the Prince of Wales (that's John Tavener for those who didn't guess) lead what has been called by many "the return to tonality" - their music is far more accessible for those who aren't experts in the field.

I can imagine that it would be possible for jazz to follow a similar trajectory - having had its period of introspective intellectual obscurantism, it may well move into "calmer" territory.

[billyskank]

26. There is hope

there are youngsters out there playing jazz who understand the importance of an appropriate measure of cheese. :7

[kiraboo]

29. Well, I'm being snide.

I worked at Berklee College of Music for several years and heard too much jazz, perhaps, for somebody who wasn't enamored to begin with. I do like traditional jazz very much.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

39. You don't like to listen to even KIND OF BLUE, TIME OUT,

any of those things? Jazz can be obscure, but it can also be very accessible in the right contexts...

[kiraboo]

64. I'm not sure whether I'd agree that my dislike of jazz is due to my

being unable to access it, intellectually, musically, whatever. I don't like a fair amount of country-western music but I doubt you'd argue that this is because it's inaccessible! But my favorite music comes from the Baroque era... which will give you an idea of where I'm coming from. I like traditional intervals, simple harmonies and basic melodies. I also dislike percussion. Call me an old fart. I don't mind! :P

[ghostsofgiants]

17. Don't know much about it...

But it seems like cool stuff I guess. I've just never really cared enough to check it out.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

40. That's still cool!

:hi:

[billyskank]

19. Jazz is the bee's knees

It's the wasp's nipples

and the dog's testicles.

I like lots of things, but my favourite songs are all jazz. It's impossible to define what jazz is; you just know it when you hear it. It's a feeling.

Famously (perhaps apocryphally), Louis Armstrong answered when asked what jazz was, "Lady, if you have to ask, you'll never know!"

(This could be a false quotation because it is sometimes attributed to Count Basie, and even Duke Ellington).

[WritingIsMyReligion]

41. I know Satchmo has that often attributed to him.

:hi:, billy!

[redqueen]

22. Second option for me as well ...

I love jazz, but I also love many other kinds of music.

I couldn't live without a wide variety of tuneage to groove to! (Even if it's only in my head.)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

43. Hell, I couldn't get along without earworms, even the tacky ones!

:hi:

[tjwmason]

24. Between 2 and 3.

If I'm not listening to classical music, I'm probably listening to jazz.

I fear that I don't know nearly as much as I ought (or want) to know about it - but it is incredibly enjoyable, and apart from my first-love is the best out there.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

44. Hey, man, that's cool.

I know little about classical--I've never really seriously listened to it--but still.

;)

[democracyindanger]

27. Not only do I like jazz

I also like jazz hands.

The movie 'Bird' is what did it for me. Saw it as a college frosh; from then on there was more Coltrane, less G'N'R in my life.

[Skittles]

28. I truly dislike it

I have tried but it just plain irritates me

[WritingIsMyReligion]

46. It's all right.

Some of my relatives are just plain irritated by it, as well.

:D

[Starbucks Anarchist]

30. I love jazz!

:thumbsup:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

47. Yah! Burn on, brotha!

:rofl:

:hi:

[1gobluedem]

31. Without jazz I would have no job

So that puts me in the "must have it" category....:thumbsup:

But, even aside from that, jazz is the USA's unique music. Even if you're not a fan, it's worth preserving and supporting just because of that.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

48. Yup, yup, yup!

It's very fascinating!

[catbert836]

32. I'm a big fan of jazz.

Especially this guy:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

49. I didn't know you were a fan of Red X.

:silly:

[catbert836]

61. Very funny, WIMR

You just keep on doin' that.

[Arkham House]

33. I voted for #1...

...jazz is an astonishing, utterly unique historical accident...thanks to God, the dialectic, or whomever, white and black came together in this country, and jazz was (one) of the results. As music, it is art, entertainment, classical, pop--though not, alas, popular... But it's jazz, and would itself be reason enough to be glad that this bizarre historical accident America came into being...

[WritingIsMyReligion]

50. That's a huge part of it: it's like an accident, only so well done...

Truly representative of the human culture in general, but then again, so is all art/creativity...

[Ron Green]

57. Man, I love your response.

I agree that jazz is what America is all about: the master and the slave, the yin and yang, the white folks and the black folks coming together. It's still going on, and not always too well.

One could make the case that hip-hop is doing this today, but I don't agree. It was the marvelous combination of 19th-century popular music and the blue note that came together and began to swing.

Lots of posters here have said that it's more for the players than for the listeners, but I think that just shows the listeners need to do more listening (and maybe learn to dance better, too.)

B-)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

58. LOL!

Lots of posters here have said that it's more for the players than for the listeners, but I think that just shows the listeners need to do more listening (and maybe learn to dance better, too.)

:rofl:

[Arkham House]

63. Thanks for the kind words...

...as far as players and listeners go--I'm reminded of the time when a traditional jazz fan was listening to some "avant-garde" music of the 60s...and said, "you can't tap your foot to it"..and got the excellent reply, "man, there must be something wrong with your foot"... For those with the ears to hear, the music is there. All forms of jazz have had enough people learning to listen to find its audience sooner or later. And despite the music's current doldrums--which is directly tied, I'm convinced, to the general Moronification of America--I'm absolutely certain that the music's greatest days, and greatest popularity, still lie ahead. Just as I'm sure America's greatest days lie ahead...as long as all of us keep listening, and training our ears...and hearts...

[sendero]

34. The problem is..

.. "jazz" encompasses a LOT of music. Some I like, some I can't stand.

Sorta like "rock" :)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

51. True, very true.

To really generalize, though, I like rock, and I like jazz!

[sendero]

56. I like jazz...

.. from the "cool jazz" era the late 50s and early to mid 60s :) And a smattering of others.

[I Have A Dream]

35. My husband's a jazz maven, and I really don't like jazz at all.

I wear headphones a lot! :(

I voted for the "Meh..." response.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

52. That's actually pretty funny!

Does he play?

[I Have A Dream]

65. He plays blues and folk music on his acoustic guitar.

He's very good, and I actually enjoy this music. (No headphones then.)

[xchrom]

37. i like categories of jazz or subtypes

duke ellington

benny goodman

big band swing stuff.

for me that is the apex of american music.

improvisational, atonal, progressive -- i don't like at all.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

53. Hunh, that's kinda funny, but still cool!

I really get into the total improvisation stuff, but I also dig the swing/bigband stuff.

;)

[xchrom]

59. well as the grateful dead maintained: it's all good.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

60. Oh yeah!

:)

[NNadir]

42. For me, there's jazz and then everything else.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

54. Not a bad way of classifying!

:D

[CrownPrinceBandar]

45. I likey........

I particularly like Bop-era jazz. Folks like Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Cannonball Adderly, Charlie Byrd, Stan Getz and Dizzy Gillespie are some of my favorites. I particularly like the early 60's Blue Note recordings. I also like some Brazilian stuff like Joao and Astrud Gilberto.

However, fusion gets on my nerves. I think there are some folks like Chick Corea who do it well, and I can listen in small doses. But the feel-good, slap-happy guys like Pat Metheney drive me up the friggin wall.

edit: I took choice #2

[WritingIsMyReligion]

55. Not a Metheny fan, eh?

:D :D

[MrScorpio]

62. Here I am with Roy Ayers

You can guess where I stand