Got my first genuinely insulting comment about Jack, today.

[LaraMN]

I was outside playing with the kids, when a couple of elderly women walked by. They stopped to talk to Sophie, and I wandered over to say "hi". I was carrying Jack and when they saw him, one of them said, "Oh, there's something wrong with him?" I said, "There's nothing wrong with him, but he has Down Syndrome, if that's what you're referring to." The woman respond with a lengthy dialogue on how "Downs people" used to be placed in institutions, and finishes her blabbery with "he should be living in an institution, or you should have terminated him." I was so shocked, I didn't know what to say, and I got ragingly mad and blurted out, "well, I think you should be living in a nursing home, or be euthanized for being old and ignorant." Yikes. I'll have to learn to reign myself in a bit in the future, I think. Seriously, who the hell says shit like that? Oh. My. God.

That said, it's the first comment of that nature I've ever heard, in his 3+ years, so I know most people know better.

[malta blue]

1. WTF is wrong with people

Lara, I am sorry you had to listen to that crap!

[miss_american_pie]

2. Oh holy fuck

I admire your restraint.

:hug:

[LaraMN]

4. She was too old for me to kick in the shins.

But *just* barely...

[Nickster]

7. They're never too old to kick in the shins. Especially in this situation.

[miss_american_pie]

Still, sheesh

Being old doesn't give anyone the right to be ugly.

[LaraMN]

12. I think I'll choose to chalk it up to senility.

I can't afford to harbor as much anger as I could, simply because people can be assholes.

[miss_american_pie]

15. You're right of course

:hug:

[radwriter0555]

110. Girl your reply was just what that pathetic old hateful freak needed to

hear.

And I have to believe that you will never ever again hear such a horrific thing.

I'm sorry you had to witness the worst of humanity.

[Nickster]

3. OMG, that really happened to you? I'm so sorry, people are so fricking

terrible. I can't even imagine what I would have done if that happened to me.

[LaraMN]

8. Ignorant people are a plague.

If someone couold invent a vaccine for them, I would personally donate to the cause.

[Sanity Claws]

5. That woman was an idiot

I hope your remark taught her to think first before speaking. How insensitive can one get?

[Broken_Hero]

6. well at least

you did better in that situation, than I would have. My brother joseph, is autisic, and mentally challenged, and people have gone off on him, and I have responded in a..rather, agressive way, usually in a "go Fuck yourself" response...when it comes to family, I find it hard to not be overtly aggressive, when someone I care/love is being treated poorly...

[Midlodemocrat]

37. Anyone who would be ugly about a differently abled person or

child deserves everything you can throw at them. Go Fuck Yourself is restrained. Good on 'ya.

[Radio_Lady]

89. Lara, please accept my apologies for the remark someone made to you.

A couple of nights ago, TLC channel ran a program on something called Momo Syndrome. Just a handful of people in the world have it, including one young child in the UK named Archie, and a young woman in Sao Paulo, Brazil, named Danielle.

You can read about this rare disease at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOMO_syndrome

If I had seen these children with their mothers, I might have inquired about the diagnosis, more of a matter of fact question, but I never would have suggested that a woman consider abortion because of bearing a child like this. How incredibly stupid and ignorant that woman must be!!

If I had been in that situation, I might have said, "Madam, we are all God's children" or "God only gives us what we can handle, and I can handle this, thank you..." and walked away.

I do remember one young couple living in Hendersonville, North Carolina who invited me to a baby christening in the early 1971s. I didn't know them very well, and I brought a nice baby gift for a child of either sex, some kind of clothing as I recall.

I was in my early 30s with two tiny children, ages two and one years old, both "normal," and I was struggling financially as a single mother. I do remember recoiling a bit when I looked in the crib and saw a Down Syndrome infant. All I can do with my inner feelings is to try and say something pleasant, even if I internalize by feeling the burden would be too much for me personally to bear. To do otherwise is simply cruel and tactless.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[EstimatedProphet]

9. TERMINATED HIM?!?

She is actually saying, TO HIS MOTHER, that her baby should be killed?!?

I wouldn't have said a thing. If I were the parent of a child with Down's, I would have beaten the crap out of her. If I were there, I would have beaten the crap out of her FOR YOU!

[hfojvt]

64. I believe she was talking about an abortion

Which is not the same thing. If you can do tests before birth to determine if a child will have Down's syndrome, then you can choose to abort or not. I expect fundies to be outraged at the thought, not liberals.

[progmom]

71. I don't think I understand you chastising EP here for being outraged.

The woman suggested to Lara that it would be better if she had terminated her pregnancy. Whether you are a proponent of reproductive rights or not, that is a repulsive thing to say to a mother about her child. Surely you can see that?

[EstimatedProphet]

107. Exactly

Thank you

[hfojvt]

126. yes I can see that it was a repulsive thing to say

but a) it is inaccurate to say that the old woman suggested that the child should be killed (unless we liberals are suddenly equating abortion to murder), and b) to threaten or suggest beating the sh*t out of another person, particularly a person who is unlikely to be able to defend herself is pretty repulsive too, no matter what the provocation. That is qualitatively different than just expressing outrage.

"Registering the terror and confusion in his client's eyes, Bobby realized that his threats would not acheive the effect he desired. In fact, threats would almost certainly frighten Frank into flight even if he wanted to help Julie. Worse, by stooping to violence as a first resort, he was treating Frank not as a person but as meat, confirming the depraved code by which the corrupt old physician had led his entire life, and that was almost as intolerable as losing Julie." The Bad Place

I always seem to be in the minority here, since I can never cheer or celebrate extreme violence and unbridled hatred as a first resort, no matter how understandable they may be.

edit: Most people here probably have not read "The Bad Place" which is a story about Julie and Bobby Dakota who run a detective agency. Julie has a brother Thomas, who has Down's Syndrome. "Thomas had memories of how people, out there in the world, looked at him that way or said mean things, and how Julie always Told Them Off. She said Thomas didn't have to be nice to people like that, and he could tell them they were Being Rude." I thought that was ironic, although not why I quoted it. The "violence as a first resort" line has stuck with me.

[EstimatedProphet]

139. Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

Your reaction was to the suggestion of violence, my reaction was to being called a fundamentalist and a false liberal because my opinions are different than yours. So, let's simply both step away.

[Midlodemocrat]

102. If you read Lara's posts, they knew about Jack in utero

and CHOSE to have him and love him. FWIW, terminating a pregnancy is the exact same thing as an abortion.

No one should tell the mother of any child born on this planet that the child should have been terminated. No one. Period.

[EstimatedProphet]

108. Again, exactly

Thank you

[EstimatedProphet]

106. I disagree

I took it to mean an abortion. HOWEVER, that is the mother's and father's choice, not some old crone who thinks that her particular concept of eugenics should be placed on everyone else. I have no issue with abortion - but it is the height of monstrous to tell a mother that her child should have been aborted. Period. NO ONE gets to say "You should have had an abortion" AFTER the parents have decided not to.

[fishwax]

122. I think a liberal can well be outraged at someone saying

to a mother, in reference to her three-year-old child, that she should have had an abortion. That's not the same as being outraged about abortion.

[jpgray]

10. Old people can be weird

Their social programming is completely out of date and they can't change. That probably read as "polite small talk" in her mind--for example if she were coming on to you she would have said "Don't you think I have nice legs? I was a Charleston dancer!" See--that's pure vintage sexiness right there.

[Radio_Lady]

91. OK, Mr JPGray. This is getting quite nasty. Do YOU decide what OLD is?

For example, these delightful folks.

I just turned 67. He will be 72 tomorrow. I defy anyone to say that our "social programming is completely out of date and (we) can't change."

Mr. Gray, you are making a generalization and it is not logical or rational. Remember, you will someday be "old", too -- however you define it.

Unless, of course, you are chosen or choose the other alternative -- in which case, you'll be DEAD.... Rant over.

[jpgray]

92. It's a generalization, yeah, and obviously not true for all cases

But I've seen many instances of an eldery person sticking to the social mores of his/her heyday rather than what's current--for example, my grandpa still calls black people "colored." That was perfectly polite in the sixties, but things have changed since then and he hasn't, much.

[Radio_Lady]

99. So, maybe you just can't generalize from YOUR grandfather to other

people.

Social mores of our heyday? PUH-leeze! This discussion does not even belong in this thread.

Ultimately, you are saying that because people are old, they would be willing to verbally brutalize a younger mother of a Down Syndrome child with their absolutely ridiculous comments. If anything, women of my age and older (plus 60) never had much of a choice with enduring a pregnancy or not. That was prior to legal abortion. So if you were to generalize at all, I would think the older person would be MORE inclined to be kind to the mother, not UNKIND.

As far as your personal experience with your grandfather -- that's what it is... just your experience. How old a man is he? Does he have dementia? What is his practical experience with "colored" people? Has anyone tried to discuss this with him?

I was raised in Miami, Florida, during segregation, and that's when people referred to African-American people as "colored" or "Negroes" or worse. People of that race referred to themselves with those words! You are correct that much of that changed in the 1960s. Now, most people I hang out with (all ages, by the way) don't refer to African-Americans as "colored." However, I am certainly willing to say that your grandfather does not seem to have moved along with the times.

The person in question who blind-sided Lara was obviously older than you. However, that does not justify your illogical conclusion that just because he/she is older than you, that person is "stuck" somewhere in their history and won't change (or can't change).

True for individuals only. NOT TRUE for a greater class of people.

Perhaps you have learned your lesson for the day. Thanks for listening.

In peace,

Radio_Lady (woman, wife, mother, stepmother, grandmother, and stepgrandmother)

[Midlodemocrat]

111. Knowing, jpgray the way I do, I don't think he meant to be insulting.

I believe he was trying to comfort Lara. He isn't prone to broad brush statements unless in jest.

JMHO. YMMV.

[Radio_Lady]

134. Thanks, Midlodemocrat. I appreciate your chiming in on this, even

if I missed it today (It's hubby's 72nd birthday -- we had dinner with loving family tonight).

[Flaxbee]

140. Is that Mr. Radio_Lady (so to speak - Radio_Gentleman?)

he has very kind eyes/kind face. Lovely photo of you two.

[Book Lover]

118. Now, dude, you know that's not true

and is hurtful to our elders here at DU. With luck, we will be at that age someday, looking at the world through what looks to us like the same eyes as we ever had.

[Reverend_Smitty]

11. How could anyone be so insensitive and rude?

How dare she say he should be institutionalized, what a terrible thing to say. When I worked at a high school last fall there was a student with Downs who would come to the athletic training room after school and help us out in there, little things like washing and folding towels and cleaning off treatment tables. But I got to say he was such a sweet kid and he really helped us out in there

[elehhhhna]

13. that was one evil woman.

[Burma Jones]

14. You should have tied a rope around the Crone's ankles

Hoisted her upside down and bled her like a pig.

However, your response was pretty good too.....

[ThomCat]

16. That's horrible.

I can't believe someone had the nerve to say that. :grr:

I imagine she must be Such a wonderful person to be related to. Don't you just wish she was your grandmother?
:eyes:

[LaraMN]

18. My grandma did say something similar, when we had the prenatal diagnosis.

She thought I should have an abortion. She also calls Jack "poor little Jack" whenever she talks about him. She's a piece of work on many levels, though. :eyes:

[Midlodemocrat]

38. In defense of Grandma.

Down Syndrome children didn't live lives in her day the way they do today. She might have been relying on her own experiences and trying to spare you.

[asthmaticeog]

17. Oh, holy shit, that's just short of monstrous.

Frankly, I like your "inappropriate" reply, but then I have a pretty short insult-to-mouth circuit. :evilgrin:

You said it was an elderly person - that happens sometimes, sometimes people just stop keeping up with the way of things and get themselves mired in the old-school. Though just because it's somewhat understandable doesn't mean it's acceptable. I'm sorry you and your son had to endure that kind of vicious, ignorant talk.

On edit: as usual, jpgray put it way better than me...

[ceile]

19. OMG!

How can any one say anything like that about a child that is loved and is only going to bring joy to those around him?
Stupid bitch....sorry, had to be said.
I woulda punched her!

[AngryAmish]

20. A friend of mine found out her sons had Down's

Her aunt, very nicely, sat her down and told her to have an abortion. She has never spoken to her again. That women is a very nice monster.

[Cathyclysmic]

21. I'm so sorry, what a C U next tuesday...

I would not feel bad about what you said to her, you had to call her on that. And being old is no excuse for that faux pas.

[Deja Q]

22. At least that cow was upfront. But sheesh, that was horrible of her to say

Sheesh. Life is too short as it is, we claim it's precious, and then we have those... creeps... who claim to be pro-life, spitting on everything that doesn't fit THEIR petty definition of life.


No doubt you were shocked. So am I.

I'm glad you blurted that out. Do unto others as they've done unto you is all those faux-Christians can understand. They need to feel how they in turn have made others feel. Do not chastize yourself. She was the aggressor, and she's not going to fathom what it's like until she is told something that affects her the same way. This isn't eye for an eye as it's not violence. It's social insensitivity. And they are the ones who need to learn how to be civilized. It is okay to respond to the uncivilized using their same mannerisms. It's the only way they will change. They have to feel what it is like in return for those they taunt. It's not violence in this instance. It's awareness. To an extent, there is a time and place for when it's better to avoid. But not this instance, she deserved what you had said.

With luck she'll feel hurt and think twice before condemning others to "termination" in the future, good God... x(

[Common Sense Party]

41. "faux-Christians"??? WTF does religion have to do with this

incident? At all?

[ghostsofgiants]

50. You're relatively new here, so it's okay if you don't understand.

But around these parts, anyone who does anything even remotely negative is automatically assumed to be a Christian/faux-Christian (depending on the person's view of Christianity) or a Republican. No other groups are capable of being horrible people.

You'll pick up on these things eventually.

[Common Sense Party]

53. Oh, good. At least there's a sensible explanation for it.

Christian = bad.

Got it.

:sarcasm:

[Schema Thing]

23. Stunning. ((((Lara)))

[AlCzervik]

24. being elderly is no excuse for her comments, i bet when she was younger

she was an idiot then as well.

[Callalily]

25. I am shocked, I am

utterly flabbergasted by that old biddy's remarks. And no, age has nothing to do with insensitivity. She'd be evil even if she were young.

I admire your remark, hopefully it got her thinking.

:hug: for you and Jack.

[BlueIris]

26. For the record, I don't think you should learn to 'reign it in.' At all.

[LaraMN]

29. I have to be careful how I respond in front of my older kids.

My oldest wasn't there (thankfully), but I don't want to teach them to sling insults, rather than to educate people. That said, it's easier said than done!

[BlueIris]

31. Well, yeah, but...

when the ignorant are so obviously beyond educating...sorry. I just--!! Some people.

[LaraMN]

33. True. I feel sorry for the old witch, though.

If she's reached the advanced age that she obviously has and hasn't yet figured out what life is about, what loving someone is, or how to treat other human beings with decency, then her life's been largely wasted. Pretty pathetic.

[BlueIris]

61. Yeah.

But in having re-read your post, I'm grinding my teeth with rage.

[sbj405]

83. I would guess that there's no educating this particular person.

Sorry you had to deal with such an insensitive b-yatch.

[Lars39]

27. Don't "reign" yourself in, LaraMN.

If anything, this type of malicious ignorance needs to be cut off at the first sign of negativity, especially in front of your kids. :hugs:

[LeftyMom]

28. Anybody who could say that to you *in front of Jack*

deserves anything you choose to tell them and then some.

[Beware the Beast Man]

30. If I were you, I would have karate-chopped her in the throat.

But only if I were you. I wouldn't do that because that wouldn't be right.

Old bag... :mad:

on edit- I have not met you or Jack in person, but from your posts (and pics), Jack is bright, clever and witty. I believe he is going to surprise and inspire a great many people as he develops.

[Bossy Monkey]

32. "He's got an extra chromosome, but he's capable of learning. What's your

excuse, nitwit?"

So sorry you had to face this. I think rather than rein in, your best move in such situations is to cut off any such person when they start off on such nitwittery by saying in your coldest voice, "Until you learn to think or at least communicate with the least politeness, do not address me or my children in any way ever again," and turn on your heel.

[txwhitedove]

34. 'Stupid evil people' come in all sizes, races and ages....

I am horrified that anyone would say that to you and in front of your child. You are obviously a warm, loving and courageous woman to be blessed with the care of this special child. Please, let's discourage biased bashing of any sort. We can't condemn that stupid evil person, and turn around to bash the elderly. It wasn't her age. My grandmother was born in 1901 and she never would have said that. She was a racist, but she never would have said THAT!

Note: Discouragement of biased bashing is in no way criticism of your response, as at that moment you were well within your rights to respond and did it quite appropriately.

[Taverner]

35. Fuck her

She's a twit

[Beware the Beast Man]

39. I think you misspelled it.

:evilgrin:

[Midlodemocrat]

36. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??????

You, LaraMN, know how I feel about Jack. I am getting the next flight to MN and going oldie hunting.

What a complete fucking asshole. And, frankly, I think you used restraint. I wouldn't have been so gracious.

[Beausoir]

40. Infuriating. Why do some people think they have the right to do that?

My little boy was born preemie.

When he was an infant, he was very small and wrinkly. Like a little old man.

A lady came up to me in the store one day, peeked under his blanket and said "What IS he?!?!"

I just about bludgeoned her.

[uppityperson]

82. I don't understand people sometimes either, rude and forward. My rules:

1. Never touch a pregnant woman without her consent
1.a. Never ask a female "is there something you haven't told us" because the answer might be "yes, I'm getting fat."
2. If you ask "what is it?" be prepared for the answer "a baby", or maybe "an artichoke"
3. It is ok to be blunt to people who ask rude and prying questions.
4. It is ok to give people benefit of the doubt if you think they were not meaning to be rude and just answer briefly.
5. It is not rude to point out other people's rudeness to them.


My example, looking through loose strawberries at the (bad produce) grocery store, a person said "can't you control him, make him stop touching them all?" to me when UPjr was searching for good berries. UPjr gave a quizical look when I responded "I've tried beating him and just can't get him to stop." Other person apologized, not what they meant, etc which gave me a chance to educate about this store's policy of selling fuzzy fruit.

[progmom]

42. Lara...

Your response was brilliant and way more restrained than I could have been in that situation.

You are a truly wonderful human being, and all your kids are lucky to have you as a mom.

Fuck her. She'd be lucky to know someone as wonderful as Jack (from what I have read in your posts).

[Blue Diadem]

43. (((((hugs)))))) I think you handled them well

My Mom never learned to deal with the insults. How I wish she'd responded as you did! Ya know,even my sis's own Dr. told my Mom that some of his patients found my sis repulsive and she still didn't tell him off.

Mom ultimately retreated into keeping my sister out of public most of the time..mostly out of fear that someone would somehow force her to place sis in an institution.

It was a different time back in the 50's and 60's. Don't let the old biddies comments get to you..they are ignorant and stuck living back in a different time.

[Castilleja]

44. You were justified to make that comment to her

I am convinced that some people lack some kind of filter when they are speaking to others that causes them to say some of the most egregious things right to your face, and have no idea that it is rude. Sorry you had to run across that...:-(

[billyskank]

45. Jesus Christ

:o

[Gold Metal Flake]

46. Your response was reasonable and appropriate.

Do not for a moment think otherwise. What that person did to you was like a surprise assault. She's like a civilian version of Babs Bush.

[Sequoia]

47. Great answer.

I mean, what nerve of that old bat. You're sure funny.

[arwalden]

48. That's Terrible!

I'm sorry you had to deal with that. --- And as long as you didn't strike the old bat, I think you did a fine job at giving her a well-deserved smack-down. What a stupid rhymes-with-witch she is!

[deadparrot]

49. How awful, Lara.

Some people can be so ignorant. :hug:

[ghostsofgiants]

51. That's really fucked up.

I can't even begin to comprehend what goes through the mind of someone who would ever say something like that. What a miserable existence she must lead.

:hug:

[MissMillie]

52. We always hope people will think before they speak

but some people are just not capable of thinking.

:hug:

I'm so sorry that happened to you today.

[bleedingheart]

54. that is just jaw dropping...

I can't believe someone would say that to you....that is awful.

[Hissyspit]

55. Reign yourself in why?

What a horribly ignorant, insensitive, inhuman woman. You said exactly what you should have said.

[tjwmason]

56. It's possibly a good thing I wasn't there.

Because if I were she'd probably be in hospital, and I in police custody - and I'm not a violent man. In my book your response was very restrained.

:hug:

[prolesunited]

57. Not that I in any way think that they are correct or appropriate

in their comments, but you do have to put it in context of where they are coming from -- their experience and the attitudes that they grew up with. What they said about being institutionalized is true, but thank goodness we've evolved from that. Think how anyone who had a physical disability or mental illness was treated at the time. Hide them and lock them away -- just like they did with unmarried pregnant women. So, that comment was just coming from their limited experience and ignorance.

For example, my dad is 83 and has said many racist remarks over the years, but that was the time he was brought up in. But, old age is no excuse to continue to be ignorant. It just took more time and patience on my part to help him overcome his sterotypical attitudes. For example, I went to work at a university in a predominantly African-American area. Both he and my mom were ridiculously worried, based on nothing but the racial make-up of the neighborhood. However, I had my dad pick me up from work a couple times and he expressed surprise at the niceness of the area. We drove around and had a chance to see kids playing and people mowing their lawns and walking their dogs. Their have been many such opportunities for discussion and his attitude has changed tremendously over the years (although I'm sure he's bound to make a stupid comment now and then and I simply call him on it).

Your anger certainly was justified, but if it ever happens again, perhaps you could help break down barriers rather than erecting ones. For those women, it was a perfect "teachable" moment. You could have said that you realize that was once what was done, but how much progress has been made and all that Jack can do and emphasize the love and joy he has brought to your life. I know it's easier said than done, but you could be a voice for understanding and acceptance rather than just responding on their level.

Some people always will chose to remain stubbornly ignorant, but there are those who just don't know better or don't think. Those are the ones I think we can reach and help.

[LaraMN]

58. Had I been mentally prepared, that would have been my preferred tactic.

This was the first time anyone had said something so offensive to me. I'd practiced in my mind for someone to say something rude, and to respond in an educational way, but I was not prepared to hear that I should have aborted the little boy I was standing there holding. I don't think that woman was interested in hearing the truth, really. I don't advocate the wisdom of my hysterical response, but she had the air of someone who was there to lecture me, not to become informed.

[prolesunited]

59. I understand about being caught off guard

It's always easier to come up with things in hindsight and it was a horribly hurtful thing to say.

I realize you won't reach everyone, but there are some and usually the effect is cumulative. It can't hurt to try.

And, I'm not trying to lecture. I was just sharing my experience.

I wish that such hurtful things would never happen to you or Jack again, but chances are they will. You can't control what others do, only what you say and how you react. Meanwhile, just focus on all of the loving, understanding people you both have in your lives. That's what really counts.

[1gobluedem]

60. Un-bloody-believeable

And the "things were different in her day" excuse doesn't wash. If this woman has a television or reads a newspaper she knows the world is not the same as in "her day."

I would have said probably the exact same thing to her. What a witch.

[LynneSin]

62. $10 says she votes republican and thinks abortion is wrong

hypocrites

[Brigid]

98. I see that $10 and raise you $20.

I'm sure you are right.

[1monster]

63. Great come back and it was richly deserved too. Years ago, 60 Minutes

did a story about two young Down's Syndrome Jewish boys who wanted to be Bar Mitzvahed.

In order to have a Bar Mitzvah, a boy must learn Hebrew, which I'm told is a very difficult language. It took them a little bit longer to learn all they had to learn to be eligible for the ceremony, but at age fourteen, both boys had their Bar Mitzvah.

These days, most Down's Syndrome folks live meaningful lives, quite a few of them live on their own, while others live in group homes. They hold jobs and at the minimum help support themselves.

Don't let people like that get you down. They are incredibly ignorant and their point of view isn't worth the breath it takes for them to utter it...

[LaraMN]

67. Exactly. I don't see Jack's extra chromosome as being his problem.

His problem is the behavior and influence of assholish people. I'll do my best to counter their effects, but I have to come up with a better response than just spewing venom at them...

[elehhhhna]

129. An overy sickenng sweet miss manners response might work...

as in "Thank you SOOOOOOOOOO much for your advice. How kind of you to be soooo concerned about my family!" With a thousand-yard stare.

[redqueen]

65. Why reign yourself in a bit?

I suppose if you'd made your point with a little less anger she might have had an easier time understanding it (one hopes), but I don't blame you one bit for reacting as you did.

[MissB]

66. It is probably wrong of me to laugh.

I think you handled her rudeness just fine. You could choose to be more tactful next time, but that is up to you. As your children get older, you might want to model how you'd like them to react to insults. :)

[NewWaveChick1981]

68. She's a complete idiot.

:grr: That shows a complete lack of understanding and insensitivity. :nuke: :mad:

[woo me with science]

69. I hope she is senile,

because I hate to think old ladies can be that mean.

I agree with others who said it could be a generational thing, though. Or maybe that plus aging neurons?

[kiraboo]

70. I think your response was completely appropriate.

Let's hope she had enough sense to recognize your point. And apparently she doesn't know a damned thing about Down's Syndrome kids.

[bertha katzenengel]

72. I think your response was absolutely perfect.

Being aged is no excuse for being so goddamned ignorant and insensitive.

Jesus!

[Gormy Cuss]

73. You know, if she had stopped at suggesting he should be institutionalized

one might be inclined to let it go without comment, because she may not realize how rare that is these days. I say might, not should, because it's still over the line. But once she said terminated, she deserved both barrels, and you gave it to her. I agree that you'll probably be happier if you have a more controlled response ready, but she got exactly the level of respect she deserved.

[leftofthedial]

74. such ignorance is hard to stomach

bah!

[tigereye]

75. I'm sorry you had to confront such a person!

I can't believe that people still hold those types of attitudes. I always think and pray that the world is becoming more tolerant - I have worked with many kids with different abilities and challenges, and each one knows joy and makes the world a more interesting place for themselves, their parents and everyone around them.

But there are still a lot of people out there who think it is their right to parade their ignorance.

(maybe what you said will make her think next time.) :hug:

[Oeditpus Rex]

76. Know what, Lara?

I think I'd write a LTE about this. Expose the bitch and educate a few people at the same time.

[Maestro]

77. Please tell me you are making this up.

I cannot believe someone could be so rude. She must be mentally challenged herself or just plain mean. Is she a neighbor or from the neighborhood?

[jadedconformist]

78. WOW

:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

I would seriously be speechless.

Now what exactly did that solve? It wasn't constructive in the least bit. Nothing she said is going to change anything AT ALL. Maybe she feels better about herself now? Is that what she wanted? A fleeting feeling of superiority? That's really just sad. I think I would have went to jail if I were you.

[hippywife]

79. So sorry you had to deal with such

insensitivity, Lara. I have a cousin with Down's Syndrome who is now about 35. He has always been the most loving and lovable person. People who say such things are nothing short of terribly ignorant and truly stupid.

[MadHound]

80. GOOD FOR YOU FOR STICKING UP FOR YOUR SON!!!!

As one who has worked with MR/DD in my life, the notion that these ignorant women expressed about institutionalizing went out the window about twenty years ago. In fact it has been found that institutionalizing people with Down's is the absolute worse thing you can do. I've a cousin who is now thirty years old who was mainstreamed with her Down's, and she now lives on her own, works a job and contributes to society, with mimimal supervision. I run into old clients of mine, who are from that generartion that made the transition from institutionalized to independent living, and I'm constantly amazed at how much these people have blossomed. In fact I regularly run into one fellow who is commuting to his job on a little scooter, and does just fine.

You keep right on giving ignornant people like that a good piece of your mind. It will be a good thing for Jack to know that his Mom has got his back.:yourock:

[libnnc]

81. You're far more civil than I would have been

I would have hauled off and slapped the woman in the face. I mean an honest to god Joan Crawford beeotch slap. It would have been totally involuntary and I'd probably be put in the pokey.

Huge hugs and big kudos to you and your precious son.

(My late father's name was Jack, btw.)

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[xmas74]

84. I would have told her to fuck off.

I would have told her more than that but by then she wouldn't have heard any of it. I've worked in those institutions-they're just wrong.

No stranger should ever get me started on institutional living. They'll hear an earful that they'd wished they'd never heard.

[Dangerously Amused]

85. Your response was PERFECT, in my humble opinion.

It came straight from the heart and was wicked brilliant. And you are right, a reasoned response would have been totally lost on that kind of person.

I understand your desire to make well-reasoned responses in the future, but for the record... if I was a kid, I would be secretly damn proud of a Mom so feisty in her defense of me or a sibling, even if she wasn't always perfectly PC.


Go Lara!


:woohoo:

[WindRavenX]

86. jesus fucking christ

you can't be serious :cry:

[joneschick]

87. there is obviously no viable excuse for her comments

you done good, Lara. We all protect our young. I read your post to my teenage daughters--when they regained the power of speech, they thought you were probably lucky that Sophie didn't step up and kick the woman. At her age that would have been their defensive response for a sib. LOL

ps: my Sophie is a lovely 15 year old and home soon from her year in Germany

[SeattleGirl]

88. Jeebus! What a pice of crap that woman is!

I think what you said was NOT out of line; it was the perfect response to what she said about your son, which WAS out of line. She must be related to Babs Bush.

:hug: :hug: :hug: for you and Jack.

[RevCheesehead]

90. I'm sorry that not everyone sees Jack's beauty.

Fortunately, he's got you for a mom, and he KNOWS how precious he really is. :hug:

[Midlodemocrat]

103. No kidding, Rev.

That old biddy is in for a huge surprise when she approaches the pearly gates and Jesus has Down Syndrome. If these perfect, precious angels weren't created in His image, no one was.

[Brigid]

93. That woman was way out of line, to say the least.

How did she react when you said that?

[Brigid]

94. Self-delete

Duplicate

[Iniquitous Bunny]

95. That's awful!

I'll tell you about myself as a kid. My brother (just a year younger than me) had special needs (profound retardation related to a severe seizure disorder) and I was jealous of the kids who had siblings with "just Down's". Their siblings could play and do stuff. Sometimes my brother would look out the window and cry when he'd see me play with my friends. He couldn't talk, but he could walk and he knew. He'd go out with his helmet for awhile, but inevitably had a seizure and then fell asleep for a couple of hours.

It's all about perspective in other words. I also learned very young to say "Who the Hell are you to stare at someone?" Questions were fine. Staring and rude comments weren't. I know I'm a stronger, more outspoken person, in part, because of this.

[NNadir]

96. My son had an unusual condition requiring facial surgery.

You will not believe the things I heard, constantly.

My favorite was the old tried and true, "what did you do to cause that?"

I always wanted to say, "I took heroin, and my wife drank all night when she was wasted on speed and LSD while pregnant. Sometimes I used to kick her in the abdomen when I was drunk."

Instead, I always said, "The etiology of my son's condition is unknown and statistically no causative agents have been discovered." The reason I chose this latter course is that I didn't want my son to grow up around hostility and anger.

He's 11 now. He's a very fine young man. We're all very proud of him.

This is what I recommend for you. You should not let the ignorance get to you.

[ulysses]

97. good god.

I'm sorry. Sounds to me like your response was right on. :hug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

100. What a BITCH!!!

Ugh...some people really need to learn just to shut the fuck up. Down's Syndrome kids are so sweet. They're just different. Geez, they're not broken. I've had a couple Down's Syndrome and autistic kids that I've taught karate to. They were all cool. You just had to work with them differently. I'm really sorry you had to hear that bitch. You probably responded nicer to her than I would have.

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

Edited because I fucked up my hugs.

[WCGreen]

101. I love your response...

What else can you say ....

Except what you said or Fuck off you worthless piece of shit....

[lildreamer316]

104. I don't think I could have restrained myself from

hurting her, Sorry; when it comes to my kids; all bets are off.
Kudos to you for saying what you said...I would have ended up in jail.

[greatauntoftriplets]

105. Lara, you are a good mother.

You didn't say anything wrong.

My late 93-year-old mother would not have been as insensitive as that old bat, because she kept up with the times. Thank the gods.

On edit: As I recall, you live in a rather small town. My mother, Chicago girl that she was, always hated the brief time during the Depression when she and my father (I was born late in their marriage so am not as old as I might sound here) had to live in the small town where he was raised. Her reasoning was that people out there were busybodies who stuck their necks into everyone's business and had something negative to say about virtually everything. So I suspect that your old bat was small minded and not used to the big wide world out there and all these modern advances.

[WI_DEM]

109. what a raving, lunatic bitch

disregard people like that. They don't matter.

[Wetzelbill]

112. oh I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't laugh

but seriously this: "well, I think you should be living in a nursing home, or be euthanized for being old and ignorant" has to the best comeback I have heard in a long time. :)

Yeah, maybe you should have stayed above the fray, but it is tough to suffer fools, you know?


Obviously, elderly people are from a different generation, most of them adapt and refine their views over time; some of the sharpest, smartest people I know are retired. They have a wealth of life experience and some newfound time on their hands so they often seek to inform themselves etc. That's why senior citizens vote in such huge numbers, because they pay attention to current events and issues etc. But sometimes you get someone like this woman, who believe they are entitled to speak authoritatively for no reason other than they are old and supposedly "wiser." Some can be mean-spirited and ignorant just like anybody else, I suppose. Without a doubt, she didn't know what she was talking about, she never had to live with a loved one or known anyone with Down Syndrome or anything like that. But you know. And, what's important is not that some fool said something stupid, but that you're great mother who loves your son. Just keep being you, because most people do know better and the ones who do not are not even worth it.

[donco6]

113. I really didn't know there were such ignorant people left.

Guess I was wrong.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

114. That is unbelievable

That the woman in question could be even thinking such a thing is beyond disgusting and reprehensible –even given the fact that I accept that such ignorant and prejudice toward those who were disabled was and is unfortunately all to prevalent in our society –but to actually say it too your face just defies belief. How could someone tell a mother that she should have terminated her own child or that she should have placed her child in an institution? It just defies belief that someone could be so cold-hearted and callous.

I feel sad for the woman who insulted you and your son because she is so blinded by her ignorance and prejudice and her judgmental mode of thinking that she can’t see beyond her stereotypical and clichéd way of thinking to appreciate the differences that people have and how it makes them unique in their own special way.

As someone with a noticeable disability, I’ve sometimes had those comments directed toward me –usually by small kids who don’t know any better. It hurts, I know

I’m so, so very sorry you had to endure this LaraMN. Don’t be discouraged by the actions of a close minded woman :hug: :hug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

115. OMG - you are my hero!! "You should be euthanized"!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

My God, what a perfectly sane and wonderful retort to a woman as utterly rude as her! Miss Manners might not have approved of your approach, but yet, I bet that secretly she is applauding you, as I am.

What a rude, ignorant bitch. I didn't mind the general rudeness and stupidity, I reacted negatively to the "he should be instutionalized" line, but I can empathize since she's from the time when that happened, but when she said to terminate - what a bitch.

[RevCheesehead]

120. Amen, brother Rabrrrrrr.

A-fuckin'-men.

[Mad_Dem_X]

116. OMFG! How rude of them!

I can't imagine saying something like that to a mother. I'm glad you told them off!

[Book Lover]

117. Good for you!

Screw Miss Manners 'bout no excuse for ever being rude or rude back. I am glad to know you told her to go to hell, as it were.

[kwolf68]

119. You got to be freaking kidding me?

Children with Downs Syndrome are amazingly beautiful people...they have hearts of gold and to each seem to be so sweet and wonderful.

Taking out the mental equation for just a second, you'd never find a kid with Downes Syndrome beating up someone weaker than they are, or waging wars.

Individuals with Downs syndrome can live so much longer these days than years ago, and we don't know where medical technology will go to give these peaceful human beings a better shot at life.

What a piece of shit to say what that person said.

[LaraMN]

121. Their longevity IS much improved, in recent years.

The average lifespan of a person with Downs is in the fifties, I believe, and that's probably lowered by the mortality rate of small children born with major heart defects, who pass away at an early age. I don't even worry about Jack not having a long life, because I have every reason to expect that he will. He's quite healthy. Really, in light of his good physical condition, my biggest concern has never been what he will or will not be capable of, but the emotional impact of people like that hag insulting or belittling him. That's partly why I reacted so strongly. I believe the real disability of his condition is the ignorance of other people towards his differences, and I'll always fight back at that to protect him.

[fishwax]

123. I think your response was fine

Don't beat yourself up over it. I'm sorry you had to deal with such a rude, outdated person.

[L A Woman]

124. I always assume people like that voted for Bush...

and most of the time, I am sure I am right. Lack of compassion rears its ugly head in all arenas of life.

[Missy Vixen]

125. Lara, I'm just sick to hear that

How could anyone say such an awful thing?

You did just fine with your response to her. I think your comments showed restraint in comparison to what I would have said to her, and we don't have kids.

Here's to Jack, and to your family.
Julie

[Skittles]

127. OK, Lara?

that woman is just plain nuts - don't think anything of it, it is not worth your time.

I remember some years ago I said to a lady about her little girl, wow, she is just gorgeous. Yes, she was a Downs baby. And she WAS gorgeous. Mom got tears in her eys, said that outside her family and friends no one had ever said that.

[China_cat]

128. What a shame that woman never got to know any people

with Down Syndrome. I do first aid for the dances at the local high school where our Downs' kids are mainstreamed. I met a couple who were painfully shy but all of them have been so sweet and loving that it's a pleasure to be around them.

Those women are the losers, not Jack.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

130. What a crazy ignorant bitch.

:crazy:

:grr:

That said, I'm not wild about some people on this thread who suggest you should have done more than what you did. Your line was witty, and pretty good for something said in the heat of a moment. Those who suggest that you should have "kicked her ass" are, in my opinion, quite as crazy as the old woman--violence is never, just not EVER, an answer.

Keep fighting for your son--my parents learned, in utero, that there was a chance of me having Downs, and while I turned out "normal" (relatively speaking :evilgrin:), they still thought, for a while, that I might be like Jack.

:hug:

[outofbounds]

131. LaraMN, I applaud you

You know that woman will remember the look in you eyes when she closes hers tonight. It never seems to fail if I say something inappropriate to someone before I sleep it comes back. I've never said anything like that to the mother of a child. But I have called a person a name. Sometimes not often but once in a while, when I lay down I remember that guys face. That was twenty some years ago. I apologized to the guy and he forgave me, but that will never remove that look from my memory. I hope you can put her comments behind you with ease. If she has a soul at all she will find it remarkably more difficult to put them behind her. God Bless you and Jack.

[Bombero1956]

132. some elderly

have the mistaken idea that they have license to say whatever comes in their heads and that because of their advanced years they won't be called on it. I was always taught to treat elders with a certain amount of respect, but I have learned that some don't deserve it. Sorry that old woman was so ignorant.

[WeRQ4U]

133. You've got to be fucking kiddng me?

What in THE hell is wrong with people? Reign yourself in? If that lady would have said something that insulting or offensive to me about one of my children, I'd have done much worse. I'd probably be doing time.

My God.

[u4ic]

135. Yeah, and the Eskimos

used to send their elderly on the ice floes. :think:

But ya know what, lady? Society progresses as the dinosaurs and their 'old ways' die out. (not to say all traditions are crappy)

Two of my ex's sisters were mentally challenged, and I heard what those institutions were like (this was in the late 60's/early 70's). People dropping off their kids and abandoning them, never seeing or talking about them again.

Sorry you and Jack had the misfortune to run into such a horrid woman, LaraMN. And isn't he a lucky boy to have such a great mom. :hug:

[Fridays Child]

136. If he's anything like the Down kids I've met and worked with...

...your son has a big heart and a great capacity for learning. And the irony is that no matter what that woman does, she will probably always by mean and stupid.

[SoCalDem]

137. Many people say stuff without even thinking..

Their words cut worse than a knife, and they often don't even know it.. Even family members say things..

My own mother once said something that I will carry to my grave, and I'm sure she took MY response to hers.. Our first child had a serious birth defect (extrophy of the bladder) and when he was about 2, after having laready undergone about 7 surgeries, she said.."I don't know why you guys didn't just turn him into a girl...it would have been easier"....I was dumfounded that she would say such a hurtful and ignorant thing, and reminded her that there was no such "magic" that would 'turn hin into a girl'..and how we would never be able to face him as an adult if we had not tried to preserve his "boyness".... then she asked if I needed help with dinner...as if she had never upset me to my core..

ignorance is all around us..

:hug: to you and Jack :)

[NMMNG]

138. Un-freaking-believable!

I've worked with developmentally disabled adults for nearly 19 years now so I've heard my share of comments from judgment and compassion challenged people but that takes the cake! I'm glad you said what you did to her--she needed to be put in her place. As a staff person I have to always be polite to people as I represent my agency but family members have more leeway to tell people exactly what they deserve to hear when they are being complete f*ckwits.

People like that woman make me want to scream.

[Pinksan]

141. That's why you were gifted with him

As a mother of an autistic 3 year old I have heard my fair share of shitty thoughtless remarks. Your son is lucky to have a fireball for a mom. that's what he needs. I figure if someone has the balls to say something of an insult towards my family then it is fair to return the favor. Once I was asked why I didnt spank my brat and was he mentally retarded.
My response was to loudly proclaim "he's your baby, when are you gonna pay child support? just because you went gay doesn't mean you don't have a responsibility to him"
he freaked and walked away with his tail between his legs cussing.

not gay bashing, but knew someone that narrow would be upset at the accusation. Hit him in the closet.