God DAMN "Magnolia" is an excellent movie.

[Yollam]

So why didn't I notice that the first time I saw it like 8 years ago?

At the time, I found it to be kind of obtuse, interesting, but not all that memorable.


Today I saw it on satellite, and got so engrossed in it - it affected me profoundly.



Isn't it funny how our perspective on things can change over a number of years?

I'm really glad I got to see it again.

[smokey nj]

1. I LOVE that movie!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Terrible movie.

Pretentious, meaningless pap.

Almost as bad as Crash.

[Dukkha]

3. I concur

the acting by everyone in it was so excessively over the top it makes Mexican soap operas look subdued.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. It's like an art house movie...

For people who don't care about art or movies.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

11. Lots of tense, unhappy people in "Magnolia". Instead of what actually

happened at the end, I would have been just as happy if giant boulders had rained out of the sky and crushed all of the characters.

Actually, even more so.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. I liked seeing William H. Macy take a frog to the face.

But why couldn't it have been Tom Cruise?

[CanuckAmok]

19. Sorry.... is that a George Lucas movie still in your sig?

Well, nobody could accuse you of not recognising "over the top". :D

[grace0418]

23. A Star Wars fan is going to make judgments about over the top acting?

Wow.

[CanuckAmok]

25. There *is* a distiction:

There's "over-the-top acting", and then there's the George Lucas version which is probably better described as "over-the-top standing in front of a greenscreen holding a plastic sword and thinking about how to best maximise your offshore holdings".

[Yollam]

5. I loved Crash, too.

But thanks for sharing.

:eyes:

[kiraboo]

10. You and I are in agreement about both those films.

Did you like "Dumb and Dumber?" Me either! :D

[NashVegas]

30. Me, Too

If we're talking Cronenberg.

[jobycom]

12. Great art often appears that way to people not ready to receive it

When you're ready, you'll wonder how you misunderstood it for all those years. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. HA HA HA!

And Velvet Elvis looks like art to people who vote for George W. Bush.

[jobycom]

16. Magnolia lookes like pretentious, mindless pap to people who voted for

GW Bush.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Magnolia is a good movie...

for the sort of brainless rube that eats at Olive Garden and enjoys it.

[jobycom]

18. Brainless rubes are often unseduced by

the appeal of art and food snobbery, and can therefore see beyond what they read in the local film snob reviews.

[grace0418]

22. So where do I fit it? I liked Magnolia but I hate Olive Garden.

I'm so confused.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Obviously you're some kind of moderate.

You must have been born an elitist but married into progressivism.

[grace0418]

29. LOL. My husband will be very interested to hear that.

Who knew I could be born into a family as large (11 kids) and poverty stricken as mine yet still be an elitist? And I guess when I was coaxing my husband out of the Republican mindset he got from his family that he was actually a progressive all along and just testing me.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. I have to crack up at the manner in which matters of taste and preference

are dealt with in the lounge. Reading that thread made me feel for Radio Lady who found herself being slaughtered for simply being kind and helpful. This place can be a viper pit at times.

For the record, I like Magnolia and as one who is a great cook, has eaten at many many wonderful restaurants, I think Olive Garden has decent food at reasonable prices...even their house wine isn't bad :shrug:

[Yollam]

48. Same with Applebee's.

The thing is, I prefer not to eat at corporate food outlets when I can, I prefer to patronize locally-owned businesses where the food is more likely to be more unique and regionally-oriented.

But that being said, I was amazed last time I went to Applebee's and had the fish fillet and pilaf off their diet menu - it was scrumptious. I'd just rather spend my money at a mom & pop when possible - it's not about snobbery for me.

[pitohui]

51. you don't like crash?

crap, a lady in cripple car crash S/M drag ain't enough for you

wait

you are talking about the jg ballard crash aren't you?

because there can be only one...!

[frankenforpres]

6. EXODUS 8:2

1 Yahweh spoke to Moses, Go in to Pharaoh, and tell him, "This is what Yahweh says,'Let my people go, that they may serve me.

2 If you refuse to let them go, behold, I will plague all your borders with frogs:

3 and the river shall swarm with frogs, which shall go up and come into your house, and into your bedchamber, and on your bed, and into the house of your servants, and on your people, and into your ovens, and into your kneading troughs:

4 and the frogs shall come up both on you, and on your people, and on all your servants.'"



exodus 8:2 is one of the signs being held at the start of "what do kids know"

8:2 show up in at least 8 places

[MissMillie]

8. it took me a while to figure out how the frogs played into it

I guess everyone can believe that the world has multi-millionaire misogynists, drug-addicts, child abusers, etc... but then the frogs come and that's unbelievable.

Loved William H. Macy.

[frankenforpres]

7. cool stuff from imdb

SPOILER: The numbers 8 and 2 appear throughout the film:
weather forecast: 82% chance of rain
a gambler needs a 2 in blackjack but gets an 8
the coil of rope when the boy commits suicide
the first temperature reading
the poster in the TV show audience
the movie poster at the bus stop on Magnolia Blvd
the placard on the hanged convicts
Jim Kurring's box number at the date hotline
Sydney Barringer's mother and father's apartment number is 682
the forensic science convention starts at 8:20
Delmer Darion flips over a stack of cards to reveal the 8 through 2 of diamonds
right after Jim Kurring sees Donnie Smith climbing up the building, you can see a flash of a sign on the side of the road that says "Exodus 8:2" (it's visible again when the frogs fall and hit Kurring's car)
the number on the firefighter's plane.
in Marcy's mugshots, her criminal record number is 82082082082
in the bar scene there is a chalkboard with two teams, the frog and the clouds, the score is 8 to 2
spray painted on the cement as graffiti next to the boy.
member of the game show crowd holds a placard with Exodus 8:2 written on it
the kids were two days away from entering their eighth week as champions.
Quiz Kid Donnie Smith won his 100 000 dollars on 28 April 1968
The first two numbers of the Seduce and Destroy Hotline (1-877-TAME-HER) are 82.
one of the hanged men has the 82 on his clothes
Claudia proposes 8:00 for a date with Jim, but Jim says he doesn't get off work until 10:00, so the date is set for 10:00, 2 hours later than the original proposal 2 hours later for a date
At the police station in the beginning of the movie, the clock says 8:02.
When Jim Kurring notices Quiz Kid Donnie Smith climbing on the Solomon & Solomon building he drives past a luminous sign saying "Exodus 8:2".

[CanuckAmok]

9. Julianne Moore pays for the prescription with eight $20 bills.

John C. Reilly's unit number has an 8-2 in it.

[CanuckAmok]

15. It really is.

That and Boogie Nights are two movies that I enjoy each time I see them. They even made it into my extremely small home DVD collection.

But I don't care for the rest of Anderson's body of work. Particularly Punch Drunk Love, which made me want to kill myself within the first ten minutes (but it was at the cinema and they make you check your straight-razors at the concession stand).

I don't know if Anderson made a masterpiece with Magnolia, but it comes close. I think he faltered a little in drawing the parallel between all the events of "chance" at the beginning and the events of "chance" experienced by his characters. I was expecting a denouement which never really arrived.

But even if you were to abandon the movie as a whole, and just see it as a series of unconnected vignettes, holy shit, talk about your performances! Yes, some of them were over the top, but they were over the top characters. And for every bombastic raving from Julianne Moore there was a measured, subtle scene with Philip Seymour Hoffman. For every Tom Cruise moment, there's a Jerry Blackman (whiz-kid Stanley) moment. For every second of the borderline comedy-relief of William H. Macy, there's Jason Robards' brilliantly tragic Earl Partridge or Philip Baker Hall's imploding Jimmy Gator. For every scene with Henry Gibson's ascerbic Thurston Howell in the bar, there's Melinda Dillon's vulnerable, horrified Rose Gator.

The Exodus 8:2 theme isn't so much about revenge or punishment, it's about refusing to come to terms with the past, which is a trait all the characters share.

[frankenforpres]

21. i agree

"The Exodus 8:2 theme isn't so much about revenge or punishment, it's about refusing to come to terms with the past, which is a trait all the characters share."


let go is the key phrase in my opinion

[WCGreen]

24. Boogie Nights....

I don't know....

It was an okay movie....

Kind of silly in a nostalgic way....

Didn't do that much for me....

Anderson so wants to be Altman...

[Touchdown]

20. Ugh! It snared another one.

Gagnolia is the Thomas Kinkaid of film making. Tries to be art, but is a pretensious insult to the intelligence...and a 3 hour root canal.:puke:

[CanuckAmok]

26. What's interesting is that...

...it was up against "American Beauty" for Best Picture at the Oscars that year.

Do you think anyone talks about American Beauty anymore?

[Xipe Totec]

34. American Beauty was a once in a lifetime experience

I don't want to repeat it.

The film was good, just too depressing to ever want to watch it again.

Magnolia, on the other hand, has enough texture to be enjoyed many times.



:thumbsup:

[Touchdown]

35. I do. Ask me about it?

I've seen many very bad films. Some tyruly awful ones. some groaners, and some downright unintentionally funny, like Battlefield Earth.

There's only one movie that I emphatically HATE ... and that's Magnolia.

[Xipe Totec]

32. LOL!

Unintended irony.

Love it! :rofl:

[Touchdown]

36. Help me out here.

You need to convey your thoughts in a matter of words that can be put on the screen for me to read.

No irony there. I read my post three times. You must be seeing the same things that aren't really there, like you see in Magnolia.

Here's irony for you...PT Anderson: "Hey everybody I made an art film! See thesymbolism in the 8 and 2? Let me show it to you again so you know for sure you're watching an art film! See? Now watch for later. About the time your bladder is going to burst from my 3 hour masterpiece, I'll bring up the 8 and 2 again, just in case yuou forgot your watching an ART FILM!"

Art, real art, may beat you over the head with it's message, but it certainly doesn't beat you over the head that it's art, like Gagnolia.

[Xipe Totec]

38. Using the word pretentious, is pretentious.

Misspelling the word makes it ironic.

[Touchdown]

44. Oh'

:dunce:

[Yollam]

39. So much talk about whether the film was art or pretentious pap...

I don't really care which it was. There are scads of people who profess to love and understand the genius of "Eraserhead", and having seen it, I'm inclined to think they are the ones being pretentious - pretending to love and understand a completely boring and incomprehensible films simply because it's so heralded by the "right" people.

"Art, real art, may beat you over the head with it's message, but it certainly doesn't beat you over the head that it's art, like Gagnolia."

I didn't feel it did that at all. I wasn't looking for the artful affectation - I was too busy being engrossed in the performances.


I really don't care what the "kool kids" though of the film, nor do I care what the rubes who eat at Olive Garden think (for the record, I consider Olive Garden to be quite edible, for mass-produced food) All I know is that the characters spoke to me and the performances were moving, and got very wrapped up in the film. I enjoyed Moore's over-the-top performance, too. What a stunning woman! Even Cruise's smarmy real-life persona was perfectly suited to the character of Frank. His behavior reminded me of my greedy yuppie mom and the way she reacts when she's been caught red-handed screwing everyone else in the family over and is called on it.


Anyway, I'll let you "film connoiseurs" get back to your debate on the artistic merits and demerits of the film. I for one have 2 kids and a busy life, and it's not every day that I can sit down and watch a 3 hour film with more substance than "The Incredibles", much less go see them in some decaying art house that serves lattes and scones out front. I made time for this film and I felt rewarded and moved. Those of you who trash the film may be right, from some sort of film-school perspective. I don't know or care. I'm just a rube.

[Touchdown]

45. You know what I find ironic (since another brought it up)

is that for the same reasons they didn't like, or never care to see again American Beauty, is the same reasons they liked Magnolia. "Too depressing" was a description used for AB. M was nothing but a bunch of walking dysfunctions, phobias, and anti-social behaviors. None of these people were likable, or even believable. When the frogs came down, I was too worn out by all the crying, gasping for breath, and "cunt" talk to care what happens to them. Fans of this POS call American Beauty depressing????? Then we're all supposed to get that they're redeemed by a 5 minute rain of frogs at the end, because the 8 and the 2 were foretelling us beforehand?:wtf: It's Deus ex Machina taken to the extreme.

I'm not a film student, or a snobbish aficionado of celluloid couture. The Incredibles (and Cars) was great entertainment, and I have no kids. I'm an X-Men fan. I liked Long Kiss Goodnight (no redeeming value other than fun), and that manipulative Basic Instinct had it's moments...none of those films insulted my intelligence. I was insulted by this film. The symbolism is about as original as a pun. The intersecting of stories was done better in any Altman film, and even in Pulp Fiction and Independence Day. ;) Yeah, I "got" it, and what was to get was the most manipulative emotional con job in cinematic history...IMO of course.;)

[Yollam]

58. I liked American Beauty, too.

It was just as "manipulative". Movies are supposed to manipulate the audience. The question is whether or not they do it well enough that you don't notice it at the time.

[pitohui]

52. well about eraserhead

i don't think you younger people can understand what it meant to some of us

that was my dad, that was my grandma's kitchen

i walked out of eraserhead because it was a true story, not because it was art or not art, but becausse it brought to close to home things i am not about to discuss here

it was two decades before i finally sat down and was able to watch the end of that film

i may not like david lynch, i may be peeved that he's the conservative's high functioning autistic -- but eraserhead is a real story to some of us

i look forward to seeing magnolia as well, i will agree that people who have nothing better to do than crap on art which tries to be different should find a different hobby

without even trying most "films" will not be different so armchair critics should not be so stressed
and eager to crap on the few films that are different

[querelle]

28. I really loved that move, but...

the frogs near the end? WTF? Never understood that part, even as a metaphor. What was that all about?

Q

[NashVegas]

31. Why Is It Necessary to Understand the Frogs?

I just looked at the frogs as a way of saying, "yo, stop for a minute. Look at what you're doing."

[El Fuego]

37. See the post above about EXODUS 8:2!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. I read a Paul Anderson Thomas interview

he said it really didn't have meaning beyond whatever people added to it but that there are times in life when what happens to us seems so absurd, it may as well be raining frogs. He did, of course, get the idea from the bible. All of his films are heavy with some form of symbolism.

I like his stuff..and any guy who repeatedly relies on Aimee Mann to score his flicks is alright by me. Magnolia has one of the best soundtracks.

[Touchdown]

46. To make sure you knew you were watching "ART"!

PT Anderson: "See? I assembled the most fucked up people in the world, make you suffer for 3 hours watching them (when I know you'd throw them out of your dinner party after 20 minutes) and they all get saved by frogs at the end. Aren't I brilliant?"

:puke:

[Yollam]

47. Who says they were "saved"?

The frogs were something odd that happened, and the film ended on an upbeat note, but Stanley's dad showed no sign of being any nicer to him, Frank watched Earl die without ever getting to make a connection or even look in his eye, while the nurse stands by weepy, his humanity utterly unnoticed by anyone. Julianne Moore wakes up in the hospital - alive, but with no reason to think she won't still be a mess. Macy gets to skate on robbing the store, but it's not like his problems are solved. Gator gets a reprieve from suicide, so now he has to face slow death and guilt over molesting his daughter, who is shakily entering into a relationship with a cop, who seems blissfully unaware that she is a drug addict. That's where it ends. How the hell are any of these people "saved" by the frogs? If anything, the frogs are a device to tell them to "wise up" as in the Aimee Mann song, but there is no reason whatsoever to assume that all the characters will do that.


As for them being the "most fucked up people in the world" - they aren't. They're all of us - all our foibles and conceits and frailties condensed and amplified into these characters, because who the hell would want to watch the way most real people spend an evening - eating microwave popcorn and filling out tax returns? Just because they were not "realistic" doesn't mean there was no truth in them or that a normal person couldn't relate to them. Jesus, it's just a movie!

[Touchdown]

54. Not just a "movie"

The most manipulative con job ever filmed.

Not "the worst movie" ever made, but the most heinous and insulting... Yes, more than Birth of a Nation.

[Yollam]

57. Worse than Jerry Maguire?

Come on. In what way was it a con job? It didn't purport to be a depiction of reality, but more of a melodrama. It strived to be artful, but it never pretended to be art-house fodder.

I can think of dozens of much worse, much more insulting and pretentious films. Everything ever done by Quentin Tarantino, Jerry Maguire, The Green Mile, The English Patient...etc.

[Touchdown]

60. It's not a question of "worse" for me.

It's a question of being so insulted by a film that I HATE IT!!!!! Magnolia isn't a bad film, it's just the only film I've ever seen that I HATE! HATE, to projectile vomit levels, where I can feel the bile rising into my esophagus with every memory of that torture I endured in a suburban theater in November 1999.

Jerry McGuire. decent, a bit melodramatic. Has gotten cliche lately, with the "Show me the Money" bit, which isn't the film's fault...just the pop culture frenzy created after it.

English Patient- Major yawnfest. Extremely boring, and a dead dog...but not insulting. By comparison, other "hat films" Like Remains of the Day, and Room with a View were brilliant.

Green Mile- Also boring, and at times mean spirited. A downer film, and not worth watching more than once...but not insulting to the intelligence.

QT- Depends on the film. Most of his work pays homage to a previous genre of films that he grew up with, none of which were done as well as he's done updating them. Pulp Fiction is a classic by any measurement. Jackie Brown was very good. Kill Bill (both films together) took the standard revenge drive in flick and elevated the genre to a level of artistry that only he could have done. Not a big fan of Resevoir Dogs, but I can see it's appeal to the mob movie lovers out there.

[Shine]

33. Loved it. Bought the soundtrack.

:D
Seriously, it's a great movie. Very powerful and well-acted.

:hi:

[Marie26]

56. The soundtrack is EXCELLENT

Aimee Mann rocks!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. I'm with you. It's one of my favorite movies.

I can sympathize with those that don't like method acting...but it was appropriate in this flick. Everything was larger than life in it. The glee, the stuboorness, the arrogance, the despair, the hopelessness, the clumsiness. All in all though, I think PAT is a great director who uses every technique available.

Perhaps the first time you saw it, you got impatient with the length.

[Pale Blue Dot]

43. Love it. One of my favorties.

I love all of Paul Thomas Anderson's movies.

Give Punch Drunk Love a chance too.

[enigmatic]

49. It's in my top 10 all-time favorite films

Jason Robards' "regret" scene is incredible. And Aimee Mann's songs work perfectly w/ the film...

[CanuckAmok]

61. The two most Ocsar-worthy performances in ther last ten years:

Ellen Burstyn in Requiem for a Dream, and Jason Robards in Magnolia.

[pitohui]

50. would LOVE to see that movie

i did not hear of it when it first came out and in the video store i have only seen VHS and not DVDs



i hope it is on DVD would LOVE to see it!

my snobbery consists not of crapping on tom cruise for trying to improve himself but in no longer watching VHS

[Placebo]

53. It's just so depressing.

And painfully "smart." It's just not accessible. Art House trash, really.

[Marie26]

55. What was with the frogs?

I loved the movie, but the ending left me scratching my head. It's probably some big profound metaphor, but if so it went right over my head. Why frogs? Thank God I found this forum, because this question has tormented me for eight years.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

59. All this talk of frogs...

First and foremost, I'll say that I didn't really care that much for this movie. But that's ok. Different folks have different tastes and that's just fine. I'm not going to ridicule you or anything becuase you liked it and I didn't. (For the record, I didn't like the story and I thought the acting was very spotty; some of the actors were good, others were really bad, IMHO (Julianne -- I'm looking at you!))

But -- I've always had a question about a very unusual moment in this film that I've never heard anyone else mention (and it's NOT the frogs!).

*SPOILER AHEAD*
When Jason Robards character dies, PT makes a very blatant and direct homage to the end of 2001. (The framing of that shot and the swelling of the 2001 theme as it segues into Cruise's intro at his info-lecture; it's been awhile since I've seen it, so that may be a little off, but I'm pretty sure...) Anyway, I've never understood the reasoning behind that. Was it merely an homage for homage's sake? Or was that supposed to represent something? (I don't really see any resonance of themes in either of these films.) For me, that moment was really distracting and off-putting. (It made me really wish I was watching a Kubrick film instead.)

Seeing as you enjoyed and took a fair amount away from Magnolia, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.