Land Surveyors - What we used to be able to do with a $4 calculator

[Crazy Dave]

The new generation can't do with a $3000 plus field computer. I used to go out (and thousands of others like me) with a set of plans and what was the equivalent of a $4 scientific calculator now which was around $20 - $25 in the 80's, and build highways, bridges and high rises that are still standing today but give this new generation a set of plans and a $3000 field computer with graphics and half the calculations already done for them and you get a "duh....what do I do?". So you show them what to do, then you show them again, and then again, and then again,.....

Anybody else deal with this in their occupations? I'd like to see some seasoned auto mechanics check-in that don't need a computer to fix a car.

[Buddyblazon]

1. My Dad got his start in computers in the mid '60's...

while in the military. In the 70's, I would be woken up in the morning of him printing stuff on a printer that would SCREEEEAAAMMMM!!!! WRRRRONNNNNKK!!!!! WRRRRRONNNNKKK!!!

In the eighties, it took me years to convince him to ditch his pocket protector. He helped design software for SDI (Star Wars).

He now has his Phd in Information Systems.

He still brags about what he can do with a slide rule.

I don't know if I've ever seen a slide rule.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. MrG, a CNC programmer, still relies on his slide rule more often than

not. It goes right in his pocket every morning. :hi:

[Reverend_Smitty]

6. How exactly do you use one of those contraptions?

I've seen them before in movies and pictures but have no idea on how they are supposed to aid in mathematics

I'm a child of the 80's and 90's, I don't even think I could do long division without a calculator

[NoPasaran]

18. It's actually very simple

First, imagine doing addition with a couple of conventional rulers. To add 2 + 3, you would place the zero point of one rule above the "2" on the other rule. Then look below the "3" on the first rule and read off the answer "5".

A slide rule works the same way, except the scales are logarithmic, so adding one scale to another performs multiplication.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. Right on! In my line of work, I cringe when I pull surveys on new

subdivisions. Half the info I need is either not there or recorded incorrectly in three different places. Now, the older surveys? Usually more than I need, but I'm grateful to have. Surveyors of new condominium constructions are the worst.

[Crazy Dave]

14. Rarely is a survey even checked for accuracy anymore

Even the owners and supervisors don't care, believe in or know how to apply the standards anymore. It's the "get it out the door" type attitudes now and "it's not a problem until somebody discovers it" attitude too.

[MadHound]

4. LOL, sorry, LOL anyway`

Dave, you're starting to sound old. The reason I say that is the complaints and the whole "$4.00 calculator" are almost exactly similar to things older folks have been saying about "those damn youngsters" forever and a day. My generation bitched about how terrible the kids with ANY calculators were, and how we could all do it better back in the day with a pencil and a slide rule:rofl:

I work a t a nuclear reactor, and hear/talk this shit all the time. And by God, yes I could work a slide rule back in the day, to hell with those damn calculators:evilgrin::rofl:

Watch out, you're starting to show your age:hi:

[Crazy Dave]

8. "Watch out, you're starting to show your age"

I'm starting to feel it too :cry:

[MadHound]

12. Now, now, it will all be OK

You will still be young in heart and spirit, that is until you start screaming about those damn kids on the front lawn:evilgrin:

[hedgehog]

5. The real problem will come in ten years

That's when all the plans and surveys put together with today's software wil become inaccessible to tomorrow's. Already anything on key punch cards is lost. On the other hand, I've used century old drawings to locate buried pipe.

[jus_the_facts]

7. My roommate uses the field data collectors....pipeline surveyor....

.....they're makin' 'em reeeeeally nice nowdays...but yeah ya gotta know how to use it first...then let the manipulation begin....muahahahahaha!! :D

[CottonBear]

9. I learned to survey with theodolites and levels.

My survey crew at work uses data collectors and expensice survey instruments. I have no idea how to operate today's high tech survey equipment. However, I make a good survey crew person. I'm good with a bush ax, a 5 pound hammer, a tape, a measuring wheel, some flagging tape and a bunch of stakes.

[Crazy Dave]

15. Now you're talking CottonBear

I do believe that the new technology is needed and can enhance the work but I guess we're going along the same path as the most of the new mothers in the ape family that are in captivity. They do not have the natural motherly instincts anymore to take care of their own babies and most of the newborns would die if the zoo keepers didn't intervene and care for them. It may apply to other animal species in captivity but I saw an ape documentary several weeks ago that's fresh in my mind.

[CottonBear]

16. Oy! Poor apes!

I'm not a surveyor by profession (I'm a land planner) but I did take a surveying course at University and I work with surveyors and surveys and digital files and points and Autocad.

Sometimes, I miss the days of pencil and vellum and technical pens, especailly when my drawing file gets corrupted and I can't fix it. :(

I really respect a good surveyor. I know some gret ones in my area and it is always a pleasure to use their work when developing plans and documents.

[jus_the_facts]

19. He learned on those in the beginning too as a lowly rodman....

...but in the last 15 years has learned all the tricks o'the trade and learned everything on the job so he's party chief and survey supervisor and now FINALLY makin' the big bucks after latchin' on with the pipeline surveys instead of doin' construction layouts and city street overlays...which have slowed down considerably in the last 6 years....but the pipelines are still bein' staked out and built. :(

:hi:

[Crazy Dave]

11. Yep...data collectors

I wasn't sure how many folks would know what one was but now the "Rangers" and "Explorers" are computers with an operating system and graphics. The answer to the newer generation seems to be that us "old" guys do our own work all day, then at the end of the day figure out the work that they couldn't or wouldn't figure out while they take off and go to the bar. This seems perfectly logical to them and it's how they think things should be done but that don't cut it with me.

[jus_the_facts]

20. Oh but the field notebooks still have to be drawn and the raw data....

....still has to be dumped and plotted out...the toughest job my roommate did was sludge pond construction for our paper mill...the allocation of every grain of dirt taken in and out..then the EPA's regulations of the layers of necessary materials to line them...that took some intense calculations with one o'the first HP Data Collectors about a decade ago...he's got an actual field computer with internet access these days!! :D

:hi:

[anarch]

10. well let me put it in perspective for you...

they didn't have any calculator for this...not even a slide rule:

[Crazy Dave]

13. I agree and try to explain these theories to them....

but we're dealing with grown men and a few women who cannot even add and subtract simple math like 10.10' - 5.23' = 4.87' or subtract an acre and a half from three. They just can't do it and I'm not exaggerating either.

[seemunkee]

17. designed with slide rules

[Spacemom]

21. My husband is an instrument man

He much prefers using the older equipment rather than the new total stations. I remember 14 years ago when we were dating, he brought the theodolite home from work and we went out into the country and looked at the moon. Ahhhh, the good old days. :loveya: :D

[Crazy Dave]

22. Yep, the good old days indeed

You can actually see the moon (or is it the earth or both) moving with the cross-hairs. Pretty darn quick too.
I think what I would like to see disappear the most in my line of work is the cell phones and using emails. I can't get any production done at all somedays with all the distractions and the clients think an email they send you guarantees a commitment.