Mothers--a question about breastfeeding

[hyphenate]

Never having been a mother to a human (cats, yes--abandoned at a week old, hand raised them!) being, I've seen some posts on some fundie sites where the mothers are talking about their future repuke children, and how some of them breastfeed til an age that I feel is ludicrous.

As I said, never being a mother personally, I am really weirded out by some of these. Several say they breastfed until the child was 8--yes, 8!--years old, while a lot of them admit to breastfeeding until the child is almost 4 or 5.

Now, I might be out of the loop, but this scares me. What is this all about? Is it in any way normal to breastfeed a child THAT long? Is this something that fundies do to get some sexual satisfaction somehow? Is this the mother trying to exert control over the child in some subliminal fashion? Or am I right to be weirded out by such longterm breastfeeding?

I admit to ignorance on my part as far as this is concerned, so if anyone wants to tell me I'm being blatantly stupid about it, that's fine--I admit it.

I guess I just have a very traditional view of child rearing, and it doesn't include keeping an infant in the parents' bed, it doesn't include breast feeding a child after he/she has developed teeth, and it doesn't include allowing a child to push the edge of the envelope to the point where the child has active control of the family.

So if someone doesn't mind being patient with me, tell me if I'm too much of a conservative when it comes to something I really don't know much about. :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. I wanted to breastfeed my littlest til he was 3, but he got cold sores

and that was the end of that. He slept in our bed for a long time too.

But to be honest I think _that_ is more traditional and the idea of weaning young and keeping babies in another room is rather modern. :)

(Editing to add that I am weirded out too by the idea of nursing a kid older than a toddler. Esp an 8 yo. Can't imagine!)

[Bjornsdotter]

14. I did breastfeed

....my daughter until she was 3. LOL....my daughter slept with us for a long time also. She's 16 now and if Mr Bjornsdotter is out of town, she will still crawl in bed with me.

It's more common in other cultures to breast feed longer. My aunt breast fed my cousin until he was 3 and it was no big deal in Sweden. Here I had lots of people telling me it was too long; however my pediatrician was from Poland and she had no problem with it.



Cheers

Edit: I can't spell tonight

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Oddly enough, there is a Biblical basis for breastfeeding for 3 years

which might explain why some fundies nurse a long time.

[lindisfarne]

15. In a lot of cultures, kids get weaned when the next comes along (and

breast feeding helps to slow that down ... although use birth control if you want to be sure).

[uppityperson]

2. most people I know breastfeeding after~1-2 yrs, it is for comfort

I know many people who let their kids breastfeed as long as they wanted to, but pretty much it was for comfort after 1 or 1 1/2 yrs of age (cuddle and suck, either during day for comfort or at night before bed), the older the kids (that I know of) the less nutrition, more cuddling. I see no problem with it and don't see it as the child having active control over the family.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. My dear hyphenate!

It is quite unusual to nurse a child till s/he is eight years old.....

Our culture sure doesn't condone it....and it is not necessary either...

Most of the world's nursing moms do so till the child is 2 or maybe 3 years old.

And there's nothing wrong with that....teeth or no teeth...

I nursed both my daughters....the oldest was ready for drinking out of a cup at 11 months, so we stopped then.

My younger daughter was more interested in nursing, and we did till she was 22 months old.....though the last 6 months, she only nursed at naptime. There is almost nothing more beautiful than watching your child go go sleep at your breast....

There is NO sexual satisfaction in nursing!

And there is no reason at all to stop nursing the child when the teeth appear....The baby bites when it is bored with that feeding, in my view.

Hope this helps! :hi:

[LeftyMom]

4. Actually your views aren't at all traditional

The idea of an infant sleeping out of the parents' bed is a very new one and really foreign to most human societies even now. For very good reason- babies sleep better when thier mother, who is both thier source of nourishment and the very center of thier emotional universe, is nearby. After all they're growing very fast and thier stomachs are tiny, so having food nearby at night is nature's way of helping them to thrive.

Babies get teeth very young, often at four months or so. They simply can't eat adult food at that age, thier mouths can't chew and swallow it and thier guts won't digest it. In fact, any food other than breastmilk before six months increases the risk for allergies. The idea that teeth are a cue to wean is a silly notion that was presented in the last century by doctors who were trained to believe that formula milk was a superior food and theus had a reason why every mother and baby ought to switch to the "modern" method of feeding. The World Health Organization reccomends that babies nurse for two years or more, while the American Academy of Pediatrics reccomendation is to nurse for one year minumum and as long after that as mother and child mutually desire. Children who nurse longer than that generally taper off on thier own, usually nursing at night before bed and sometimes in the morning or for comport after injury or emotional distress. Mothers nurse because it's physically and emotionally healthful for both mother and child to do so. There's nothing sexual about it.

P.S. The one lady I know who nursed her child to the age of eight is well to the left of most of DU. A lot of attatchment parenting and lactivist mothers are, because women who buy corporate bullshit or are willing to see their roles as mothers comodified and thus minimalized feed thier kids crap in a can (formula) and let thier roles as caretakers be replaced by whatever disadvantaged women can't score better jobs.

[hyphenate]

7. I suppose that's pretty much

how I was raised and my brothers and sisters. Since I was adopted, the breastfeeding was something I never had, but I do recall trying to con my 3 year old brother out of his bottle when I was 4. :)

[LeftyMom]

11. Interestingly enough

It's a big thing now to induce at least a partial milk supply in adoptive mothers both for the health benefits for the child and for bonding purposes. Some people think it will help to minimize attatchment disorders later on. I think that's a pretty neat idea, because my kid's Dad is adopted and definitely has some attatchment issues.

Even when no milk is created some adoptive mothers (as well as other mothers who are unable to nurse) are giving donor or formula milk through nursing supplementers (little tubes that go to the nipple and connect to a bottle or bag of milk) so that thier children can at least get the bonding experience of nursing at the breast.

[LynzM]

5. Thanks for asking instead of assuming!

I think the average world age to breastfeed is between 5 and 7, give or take (not exactly sure?). 8 is certainly very old for our culture; even 2 is somewhat unusual in the US, though not in much of the world. LeftyMom said a lot of the things I thought about saying, and probably better than I would have :) (:hi: LM!) One of my best friends was breastfed until about 4, I was about 2 and my brother 2.5. I don't think it's that weird, though I'm not sure how I'd personally feel about nursing a 4 year old. My daughter weaned at 14 months, partially due to my working full time since she was 10 weeks old :( But I think that it's up to the individual mother/child to determine how long is right for them. Could it be used as a weird sexual/control thing? Sure. People do all kinds of weird stuff. Is it necessarily? Nope, not as far as I'm aware.

[hyphenate]

6. Thanks, guys

Now aren't you all glad I'm not a mother? :hi:

[uppityperson]

8. You are welcome and nope.

a lot of parenting is seat of the pants stuff, it would be easier if they came with good instruction books (that worked) but they don't. I am glad that you are asking questions because this is how we all learn. Next, on to the fact that 1/2 kindergarted boys still wet at night. And the question, how old are kids before they give up their bottles? If it works for you, it works for you. Good to find other people to talk with about it all.

[frankenforpres]

9. weird question because

weird question, not because of your curiousity, but because i watched a boxing match last week where the guy was breastfed until age 5: "The son of a lottery ticket salesman, Freitas was breast-fed by his mother until he was five years old. Mother's milk was a way to nourish another child without spending money that was not there. It also provided Freitas' nickname, "Popo,'' a Portuguese slang term for the sound a feeding baby makes."

[mykpart]

10. What I want to know is

Did she breastfeed that 8 year old in public? :)

[electron_blue]

12. One perspective....

As a mom who breastfed til my child was a little over 3 yrs I think I can answer some of your questions. Obviously, I don't see this as a weird thing. I don't think I could have breastfed a kid til 8, but obviously it didn't bother me up til 3 yrs old, and probably 4 or 5 wouldn't have weirded me out too much. Before I had a kid, it would have weirded me out to breastfeed past a year, but then I read about all the benefits to the child to nurse past a year, the additional immunities that the kid gets, plus the extra comforting for the child. It wasn't any sexual satisfaction I was getting, nor was it for any of the other women I talked to at the La Leche League. And I don't think it's about controlling the child, even in a subliminal way. For me it was a physical and emotional health issue for the child, I truly felt it was better for the child. From what all I read, I was convinced that this would lead to a better communication between the child & parents at a younger age that would continue into the later years (the communication I mean, not the breastfeeding).

And you asked is it normal to breastfeed a child that long - actually many cultures breastfeed their children for many years. It may not be the norm in the U.S., but it the norm in many societies.

The American Academy of Pediatricians has recently updated their statement on Bf'ing to extend its recommendation:

The American Academy of Pediatrics currently (2005) recommends: "Pediatricians and parents should be aware that exclusive breastfeeding is sufficient to support optimal growth and development for approximately the first 6 months of life and provides continuing protection against diarrhea and respiratory tract infection. Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child."

Here is another link you may want to check out if you're still interested:
http://www.breastfeed-essentials.com/nursetoddler.html

[alittlelark]

13. My children were in my bed until 4-5 months old.

I actually got to SLEEP!!!! The oldest was weaned at 7 months when she got opposable teeth - big OOWWIE. She was too young to 'train' not to bite. The 2nd was weaned at 8 months because... well - I don't know. He was eating like a baby horse, and I wanted my body back.

I have a friend who breastfed her child until he was 5 years old. She has been homeschooling him the whole way after (he would be in 5th grade) He is a normal kid, but he has a lot of problems w/ peer interactions.

Bottom line - Breastfeeding to 2 years old is fine. 3 year olds need to be weaned quickly. Those that go past 3 in our society will likely have problems.

Nursing is a primitive method of birth control that is tried and true, but now we have Planned Parenthood etc....

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

18. My experience with my son was very similar...

My son slept in the same bed as my husband and I from birth until he was about 5 months old. He was kind of a big baby and at 5 months he stopped sleeping in the fetal position. He would instead sleep with his limbs completely stretched out. We had to move him to a crib then because we no longer had enough room in our bed for him (given the way he liked to sleep). I breast fed my son up until 8 months. He was biting, but that wasn't why he stopped then. It was my son's decision to stop breast feeding, not mine. He preferred feeding himself using a bottle because he could drink out of a bottle and play at the same time. He also started walking at 8 months, and he wanted to spend his time exploring rather than sticking by my side. I probably would have weened him around 1 years old anyhow, so that I could go back to work. Those breast pumps never worked on me for some reason.

Personally, I think a child should be weened after 2 years old, when they start to transition from being a baby to a child. It's important to then start teaching the child how they need to behave to be accepted in our society.

[Mutley]

16. I will preface this by saying I'm not a parent...

But the idea of breastfeeding a child until 8 years of age really and truly gives me the creeps. :scared:

[sbj405]

17. Legal case from a few years ago re: 8 y/o breastfed

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/22/national/main530620.shtml

A judge gave the state legal guardianship Friday of an 8-year-old boy whose mother was breast-feeding him as recently as July.

Lynn Stuckey, 34, will retain custody of the boy. Judge John DeLaMar said she had not abused the boy in any way, but made bad decisions that could cause him long-term emotional harm.

The judge said the state Department of Children and Family Services will handle counseling or legal matters affecting the boy. Stuckey will continue to handle day-to-day care.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

19. Worldwide average is 4 years, two months.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends at least one year and then as long as mutually desired after that. The World Health Organization recommends a minimum of two years and as long as mutually desired after that.

Here's an interesting articles from a scientific and anthropological perspective:
http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html

Politics and Health:
http://www.babymilkaction.org/

101 Reasons to breastfeed:
http://www.promom.org/101/

The longest I breastfed was 2.5 years. Eight seems a bit much, but 4 or 5, not a huge deal. Not my cup of tea, but I support it when it's in a happy nursing relationship.

Edit:
More stuff popped into my head. Did you know Michael Jordan was breastfed for 3 years? Soccer star Pele for 5 years? (Michael Jackson did not breastfeed by the way.) Anyway, people throw in anecdotal stories all the time, but that is not science. Science is pretty clear about breastfeeding's benefits for the early years.

I'd also add that I believe when a young child's needs of trust and security are met when young, they are more secure, confident people as they get older. It's been my experience anyway. Plus, there's no sexual satisfaction from breastfeeding. The hormones relax you (I'd mostly feel sleepy sometimes), but turned on. Not really.

[yellowdogintexas]

20. Mine was 27 months old when she finally weaned for good

but that was mostly bed time and nap time for the last 6 months. Now she was also a very petite child..didn't hit 20 pounds until about 17 months, so she really looked younger than she actually was. It was very comforting for both of us to cuddle together for that alone time. She was exclusively breast fed for 6 months and about 75% breast fed the next 6 months. When she was cutting a tooth, she would have massive digestive upsets and could not keep anything down except breast milk, so good thing I didn't wean her early.

I am convinced we avoided the terrible twos specifically because of this. She also never in her entire life had an ear infection despite having the normal share of head colds, allergy attacks, etc that a kid has.

I knew lots of nursing mothers then, as I was part of a La Leche Leage group, and some of those women had 3 and 4 year olds who were still nursing. Not all the time just when the kid felt "needy", I think. LOL sometimes it was not like the mom trying to control the child: quite the contrary seemed like the kid was controlling the mom. These mothers crossed all boundaries of political and religious views too, and many of them were very strictly into organic food, etc.

Suggest you google La Leche League and read from their website. Of course we used to joke that the leagues answer to all of life's problems is "nurse the baby" but there are wide ranges of view even within that group.

I do not for one second regret the length of time I breast fed my daughter.
Edited to add: if the hormone that causes that wonderful sleepy feeling when you are nursing your child could be bottled and sold, there would be no need for narcotic sleeping aids Best Sleep EVER

[TallahasseeGrannie]

22. I breastfed a good long while

probably past a year. It's been a long time now. Personally, I would be uncomfortable breastfeeding any child who could verbalize, "Mom, would you unbutton please, I'd like a snack."

Also, as a teacher, if I had an 8-year old who told me he/she breastfeeds, I would be disturbed.

I wonder how the world averages correlate with hunger and starvation issues? Because it is one way to see to it your child gets fed.

I kept my kids in my room in basinettes. My daughter sleeps with the babies up until they start kicking too much for a good night's sleep. The seven month old is still in there with her and the two year old has graduated effortlessly to his own crib, where he sleeps undisturbed for 11 or 12 hours a night.

[davsand]

23. I made it to one year with Material Girl.

I weaned her when I had to have medical testing done that was gonna taint my milk supply.

I think there is a very real cultural thing in the US that doesn't really support long term Breast Feeding, and that is a shame. There ARE several benefits to nursing for mom and baby, and I think we all realize that much. What i don't think we all realize is the immunological benefit that is there AFTER that one year mark. Probably research will come along to support it somewhere down the road.

I really think that nursing is something that most Moms should try and do if they can because it really benefits the child so much. I also think that if it isn't working for you or the child, formula is an alternative way to feed your kid. To offer a simile, it is like feeding your kid lean steak or regular hamburger--either one gets the job done, one is probably a bit healthier than the other...

There is guilt enough to go round for parenting, and the whole nursing/formula debate really can mess with new moms.

In summation: Nurse your kid if you can and want to and do it for as long as you both feel that way. Don't nurse if it isn't your or your kid's thing, and don't let anyone guilt you for it.

Maybe I'm just a simpleton. :shrug:


Laura

[fortyfeetunder]

24. The western world of breastfeeding

has been a conflict whether to breastfeed or not. And there is a struggle -- how long?

Outside the western world, especially those who have little Westernized influence, breastfeeding to ages 4-5 is normal.

A recommended read: the book "Our Babies, Ourselves" by Meredith Small, a study on ethnopediatrics. It gives a comparative view on child rearing around the world, and discusses breastfeeding, sleep patterns, crying, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385483627/sr=8-1/qid=1147545070/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8674392-4471150?%5Fencoding=UTF8

As for me the longest was 46 months, the kid's idea, not mine, and it has reaped dividends. This kid has not missed one day of school for illness, for example there was a strep throat epidemic in the kindergarten classroom, and this kid was one of the few who didn't get it. I didn't have a problem with extended breastfeeding. I recall as this child got older, he wanted to nurse in private - usually at bedtime and for naps.