What would you do about a bad dog?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

Yesterday, our 7-year old Boston terrier was sitting by me and my 2-year old grandson sat down next to him and disturbed the pillow the dog had carefully arranged over himself. He growled and jumped on him, biting him in the face a number of times and places. He never broke the skin, but put bruises in four places, including his eyelid and ears. I stopped the attack by throwing the dog across the room.

What would you do? I can't even look at the dog anymore.

[skygazer]

1. Yikes

I'm not sure but I think I've read that Boston's aren't always the greatest dogs with kids. It sounds like the kid invaded the dog's space but that's no excuse for behavior like that.

I can tell you I wouldn't trust the dog with my grandson and would either consult a trainer or put the dog down, sadly.

[RebelOne]

2. I think you should try and find a Boston Terrier rescue group

and maybe they will take him and rehome him with a family that does not have children.

[Debi]

3. Just keep 'em separated!

You're dog didn't do anything that wasn't instinctual. He probably got spooked and defended his space. Just keep 'em apart for a looooong time and don't let the dog around kids. If he's otherwise a good dog this was probably a one-time instance.

(Oh, and our Shih Tzu bit our son in the face - of course our son was laying on top of him at the time so the bite was probably justified! He's a great dog - very cuddly and licky - and never acted that way before).

[LeftyMom]

4. I would start with a vet visit

Is it possible that the dog is in some sort of pain and that's what caused him to lash out? I would rule that out first. If there isn't a clear and correctable problem like that I would see about finding the dog a home without small children. I have taught kids to work around the quirks of animals in the past, but I don't really think that's practical with a two year old boy and in any case he wasn't antagonizing the dog.

I would not even consider putting the dog down for agression without looking into other solutions such as medication first.

edit: At the very least, remedial training. The bites that didn't break the skin suggest to me that the dog is trying to keep your grandson in line as he would a subordinate dog. If he is to remain in your household he needs to realize that while your grandson is low in the human pecking order he still ranks above the dog and it's not his place to correct him. This would likely require some professional training.

2nd edit: He's fixed, right? If not, start there as it will almost certainly help with the agression and an agressive or unpredictable dog really shouldn't be reproducing.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

7. Yes, he was fixed as a pup.

[LeftyMom]

9. Oh good.

Do check with the vet though. With an older dog like that I'd be suspicious that it's a pain issue, especially if he wasn't agressive like this in the past.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. His only other aggressive behavior

is in humping. He humps any other dog, regardless of size. Other than that, he's a wuss.

[ceile]

26. From experience...

obedience school. My mom's dog did the same thing to me when I was a kid. The dog is expressing his pack mentality. He needs to be made to realize that he is below the child on the totempole. Did wonders for our dog, never bit me again.

[Mutley]

5. Find him a home without kids.

Some dogs just can't tolerate children, but otherwise are not bad dogs. You could see about finding him a home, making it explicit to the new owners that he is not good with children.

[Deep13]

6. Can't take a chance with that kind of aggressive behaviour.

You don't know what might set it off again. Realistically, it's curtains for Fido.

[leftofthedial]

8. shelter

[LostinVA]

33. A shelter? Why such an extreme and final solution?

This dog is seven years old and has never been aggressive before... why should he be put down? There are other options for TG...

And, I agree with other posters, Grannie: your dog wasn't being mean/mauling, he was "disciplining" your grandson... but that is not okay. Your grandson is over him. Talk to a vet and see what s/he says... vets are usually great sources of info for situations like this.

Good luck...

[leftofthedial]

91. who said anything about putting the dog down?

she has a choice--lose the dog or lose the child. If it happens again (and it's far more likely to happen once a dog has already attacked a child), she would be liable (as the dog's owner) for criminal assault (or similar crime, depending on her local jurisdiction) AND guilty of child abuse.

I love dogs. Love them. I have a rescued/adopted dog of my own. I've donated my time and talent to a benefit concert for our local animal shelter this weekend. But the kid is more important than the dog.

Our shelter, like many shelters, does not put dogs down. It finds them homes.

[LeftyMom]

42. He is an 8 year old dog

Even if he'd never bit, going to the shelter is a death sentance. Since he has bit, they almost certainly would not make an attempt to adopt him out first.

Let's be clear on this, even for the youngest, healthiest, cutest, best behaved dog, chances are not real good that you'll leave the shelter alive. For cats the odds are even worse. If the decision is to take him to the shelter, she should take him to the vet hereself and spare some poor overworked shelter worker the anguish and the county the money. At least that way if the poor guy dies he doesn't die feeling abandoned.

[yewberry]

11. Definitely a vet visit first.

Kidney problems can cause sudden-onset behavior problems in older dogs. I'd check that out right away.

It might be a good idea to start looking for a new (childless) home for your dog. Even if this is a medical problem that can be addressed, would you or your grandson ever feel the same about the dog?

[AngryAmish]

12. That should be an ex-dog

Never tolerate violence from animals. Punishing him now would only confuse the dog because he would not remember the incident. Put him down before he really hurts somebody.

[manic expression]

52. Are you serious?

It's called discipline. It's called making sure it doesn't happen again.

Oh, my dog just barked out of turn. Honey! Get the cyanide! :puke:

( :sarcasm: )

[Dangerously Amused]

13. If he wanted to seriously injure the child,

...he would have seriously injured the child. You would have seen blood, and lots of it. He certainly had the capability to do so.

So I think he was not attacking the child per se, but doing what I have seen my dogs do to each other and letting the child know in no uncertain terms what his boundaries are. Add to that he may have been jealous of all the attention the new visitor gets, and wasn't about to give up the few moments he had with you all to himself.

If he has been a good dog up until now, this is certainly no reason to put him down. I think all it will take is teaching the child not to approach the dog first until the child gets big enough to understand the dynamics on his own, and teaching the dog to stay away from the child. And keeping them apart until things settle down. Like if you see the child climbing up onto the couch and the dog is there, tell the dog to get down. Or keep the dog in a bedroom or outside when he can't be supervised with the child around.

Or just talk to your vet about it. I'm sure s/he has seen many such situations in his/her day and has much better insight than anyone here, including me.

I know it was a scary incident and you can't risk having it happen again, but I think with a few simple steps things would work out quite well. Euthanization, in my opinion, would be an extremely irrational decision.

Good luck.

[Deep13]

93. That should not be the dog's decision.

[Bossy Monkey]

14. Boston Terrier Rescue of Florida info

http://www.flbostonrescue.com/
Unfortunately, though their map shows a chapter in Tallahassee, the contact information is for a person in Tampa and their head office in Delray Beach. Still, you're in the state capital; they ought to have somebody there.

FAQ indicates that they think Boston terriers are good with kids, so you definitely would need to pass along that this one isn't.

[Blue Diadem]

15. Please check with the vet..we had a snapping experience with our dog

and it turned out he was seriously ill. Our elderly lab had turned and snapped at our then almost 2 yr old Granddaughter and all she'd done is barely touch his side. We were living out of state at the time and had come back here for Christmas week and didn't seek a vets assistance right away. On New Years eve, he got really ill. We found out then that he had a massive splenetic tumor that was near the bursting point.

That was the one and only time we ever saw him behave that way. Even with his arthritis and second and third tumors, he never behaved that way again.

[Arkansas Granny]

16. I would have him checked by the vet before I made any decision

to have him put down. If he has a painful spot or was hurt in some way, he may have lashed out in pain or even fear. If there's no medical problem I would say find him a new home with no children and be sure that anyone who takes him knows about the incident.

[Coventina]

17. First of all, your dog is not "bad".

Your dog reacted in a way that is not tolerable for you, but you have to understand that he does not understand "bad" the way that you and I do.

His reaction to your grandson was most likely one of two things: pain from a medical condition (as some have suggested), or it was a territorial thing involving you and "his" spot on the couch.

Dogs are pack animals, and are constantly defining their spot in the pack. He defines where he is in relation to all other pack members at all times. If he doesn't have a medical condition, his reaction was to put your grandson "in his place". Because your dog sees himself as "higher" in the pack.

This is not a failure on the dog's part, but yours.

That may sound harsh, but that's the way it is. You need to establish that your grandson is "above" your dog. For your grandson's safety as well as the dog's. (I.E. your violent reaction of throwing the dog across the room, completely understandable, given the circumstances, but not something that should ever have to be repeated).

You need to either: a) find the dog a new home
or
b) educate yourself about dogs, their behavior and their needs so that this never happens again. If you intend to keep the dog, professional help with obedience and behavior may be in order.

Good luck and thank the heavens your grandson was not injured seriously.
But the other posters are correct, if your dog had "wanted" to hurt him, it would have been much, much worse.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Agreed.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

28. I couldn't have said it better

:hi:

[flvegan]

40. Bingo, this post, right here.

Dead on. Perfect.

[Maddy McCall]

49. What she said.

:thumbsup:

[barb162]

83. agree and please don't ever

throw the dog across the room again. The dog probably had NO idea why you did that and didn't know he was doing something wrong.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

103. Once again,

I pulled the dog with such force off the baby that momentum threw him across the room where he landed on the couch. He was fine.

[REP]

84. Damn Straight

Additionally, children need to be taught how to act around animals, especially dogs. Adults need to train dogs - not with violence and pain, but with consistancy and patience. Killing the dog is not the answer.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

104. We have a happy ending

but the issue is, the dog WAS well-trained. He even went to "vacation Bible School" as we call dog training in my family. That was when he was a young lad. He's never exhibited any other aggressive behavior and we thought he was a model citizen. And then it happened.

I guess the bottom line is you just never know.

I am so grateful for Boston Terrier Rescue of Florida. They are getting a big, big donation from me. You can believe THAT!

[fleabert]

106. perfect. nt

[achtung_circus]

18. Check with the vet for medical issues.

If there are none, have him put down.

Do NOT give him to a shelter, that's delegating responsibility.

There is no room for unpredictably agressive dogs. Our very well-behaved, much loved Chihuahua snapped one day and leaped for the face of a child. He was dead the next day.

There are so many healthy happy dogs being euthanised by shelters that you should give one of them a chance for life.

[LostinVA]

34. Why put down this animal???

He is not VIOLENT -- he didn't maul the little boy -- he was aggressive and showed pack mentality. He needs to never do that again, but there are many options other than death for a dog that has never been aggressive except this once.

[bluethruandthru]

20. I'm amazed at how many folks want to kill an animal

for doing what animals sometimes do. They aren't stuffed toys. They have wants, needs, feelings, etc and they react to situations around them. If the dog had attempted to bite a burglar breaking into the house, I'll bet not many people would kill the animal for being agressive. As many have suggested, the dog had a reason for doing what it did. The dog obviously wanted the child away from him but knew he was not supposed to hurt him. The only options dogs have when they are hurt, scared, bullied, etc. is to growl, bark, bite or run away. I guess some think that running away should be the only option for dogs in these situations. I think that's unreasonable.

[Coventina]

21. It's ignorance and laziness, mostly.

Many people own dogs without educating themselves about how to live with and understand them.

For the most part, it works pretty well, because there are many similarities between dog society and ours. The problem lies in the differences. When dog and human values clash, the humans assign blame to the dog, without bothering to try and determine what caused the problem and how to prevent it from happening in the future.

On edit: I want to stress that in this case the OP is being responsible in requesting help and information. She is NOT being lazy or irresponsible. I just want to stress that!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

39. Thanks! I was worried there for a minute.

[Coventina]

48. It always helps to reread one's posts. One of the things I've learned

over the years after many apologies, clarifications, and edits!

Thank God/dess for the edit function!

[achtung_circus]

22. Sorry, this isn't valid.

He growled and jumped on him, biting him in the face a number of times and places. He never broke the skin, but put bruises in four places, including his eyelid and ears.

Barring a veterinary problem that's not anything but a loaded gun.

[philosophie_en_rose]

23. "Loaded guns" aren't meant for children.

I don't agree with your assessment of the dog. Dogs are a responsibility; they are not a toy. You can't just kill them, because they are not right for you. Owners have a duty to train and care for animal, even if that means finding a more suitable home.

I don't have children. I once had a dachshund that was abused in his former home by children and was so scared of them, I wouldn't be surprised if he bit in an attempt to run away. But it wasn't Penguin's fault he was conditioned to hate children; and he suffered from health problems for the ten years that I had him. It was my job to manage him; and to keep him safe from kids (and vice versa).

I think it's important for the right dog to be with the right family. There is likely a home without kids that would be a great environment for Tallahassee's dog.

[Dangerously Amused]

29. One aggressive reaction in seven years

...when we don't know the cause makes a dog a "loaded gun" with euthanization the only option?

Please, you can't be serious.


Hell, my own dog bit me in the face when I was a kid because I was playing with him too roughly and antagonizing him without realizing what I was doing. He didn't break the skin either, but he sure got my attention and I immediately stopped my bad behavior. And after that I learned respect for the dog and how to play appropriately in a way we both enjoyed. He wasn't a vicious dog. He was a great dog. He didn't need to be euthanized. It was my fault and I needed to learn an important lesson. And I did. We got along famously after that.

[LostinVA]

37. I know --

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

30. A loaded gun would have broken skin. n/t

[LostinVA]

36. This dog isn't a loaded gun, and any vet would say the same

[radwriter0555]

90. I agree. This dog COULD have done much more damage and CHOSE NOT TO. What

the dog did was treat the child like a puppy that needed to be disciplined.

Definitely worth a trip to the vet to rule out any illness causing a rise in irritibility, and from now on, just keep the 2 seperated until the trust has been re-established.

DO NOT remove the animal, give it away, have it put down, etc...

[pitohui]

86. achtung_circus is correct

a correctly trained dog simply doesn't treat his people this way (barring the medical problem others have suggested)

our beagle -- like many other dogs i've known in real life -- was so tolerant of being manhandled that he even allowed kittens, as in baby cats, to bat at his face w.out becoming impatient

dogs know what a baby is -- healthy, correct dogs do anyway -- they do not think it OK to bite the face of 2 yr old humans to put them in their place

for the love of god and jeebus, they do not bite EYES

[fleabert]

107. ever read a book about dog behavior?

enlightening stuff.

[LostinVA]

35. Me either

[henslee]

38. Some good advice on this page. I wouldn't get rid of your dog.

And I wouldn't lock your dog up when your grandson is over. I would let your grandson walk the dog. And I would monitor them when they are together.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. My grandson lives with me

I didn't make that clear.

But I am really appreciating this information for everyone. We are taking him to the vet tomorrow. We'll get advice from him, as well. I can tell there is a lot of passion about this subject.

Dogs are a big reason I get up in the morning. We have two others, a lab and a boxer, but they are big old goofs.

[henslee]

47. Good luck TG. My life is centered around my dog too.

[laheina]

58. I'd also be concerned about how the child would react to the loss of

the dog. I don't know what his attachment is, but my son wouldn't take something like that at all well.

Best for both to find a solution. :)

:hug:

[Xithras]

60. My son has been bitten TWICE by dogs.

The first dog went straight to animal control, and once they learned that he had aggressive tendencies they put him down. The second dog mauled my son in the face, an attack he will have scars from for the rest of his life (small ones, luckily). I "put him down" myself.

I have zero tolerance for aggressive animals, and they can be nearly impossible to place once an attack has occurred. Once a dog begins to regard people as pack members that can be challenged, they're a danger to every human around them.

[Dangerously Amused]

68. Wow, that's gotta be some kinda bad luck!

Sucks how you keep winding up with undisciplined dogs, eh?

[Xithras]

89. Only one was mine. n/t

[pitohui]

88. oh my god, xithras, what a rough thing to go through

you are correct in your lack of tolerance for aggressive dogs, of course, i am so sorry for what your son has gone thru

i am wondering what the grandchild would think, if the dog was kept in the home, would he not feel that his grandmother didn't think he was quite as important as a dog? or is the hope that because of his age he wouldn't remember the attack?

the thing about the eyelid being bruised really scares me, i don't think there is anything harmless about going for the eyes

my ex used to tell a tale all the time about how when he was a toddler he was attacked by a rooster at his grandmother's house, his grandpa asked him to go out, point out the bird, and it became chicken stew, he never doubted that his grandparents loved him

[Scout1071]

24. I'm sorry to say that he shouldn't be trusted around children.

Does he growl at you if you disturb him while he's sleeping?

I have a friend with a rescued greyhound and you absolutely cannot disturb it when it's laying down or sleeping. No petting, no touching. I made the mistake once while staying with them. I bent over to pet him and he bit me. The owner yelled at me because she had told me the previous day not to touch him while sleeping. Go figure.

Bottom line, this cannot be tolerated. You either need to kennel the dog whenver the children are around or you need to find a new home for the little fella.

Sorry.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

43. No, he has never growled before

he does mark territory a LOT but we have tile floors. And it is just a tiny dribble here and there. He is deathly afraid of rain and I thought he might not make it through hurricane season last year..seriously. He lives in a crate at night and when we leave the house, which isn't very often because my daughter is a stay-at-home mom. There is another infant, a six month old girl.

[bicentennial_baby]

25. Wow....some people around here...

:mad: Take your dog to the vet...he could be sick, or injured. Then, get a book on canine bahvior, and learn why dogs do things like this...most of the time, there's a reason, and a lot of times, it's fixable...

Poor dog...I can't believe you threw a dog across a room...A Boston Terrier? Jeebus Christ on a cracker...that right there is animal abuse...no wonder it's aggressive. :(

[TallahasseeGrannie]

45. Oh for heaven's sake

the dog had my two-year old grandson by the face. I had to use all my strength to break the grip. I didn't throw out of anger, I threw him as a result of momentum.

You assume that the dog is aggressive because I abuse him?

Lord have mercy. I never hit a dog in my life.

[Fridays Child]

53. TG, most of us here know that you would never purposely harm an animal.

:hug:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

56. Thanks

I wouldn't. But I'd kill anything or anyone to protect this child. We females can be rather protective!

[Fridays Child]

67. Yes, indeed, we can!

:)

[hfojvt]

27. my mom's dad

lived on a farm and kept a couple dogs in the house. We were told to stay away from the dogs, that they were mean. We did, an nobody ever got bit or attacked. I am sure that when we were too young to understand that, that we were kept separated. Since we were about 1500 miles away from my mom's parents for most of my childhood, we only saw them once a year for a few days time.

[MissB]

31. I had a very frightening episode with my dog several years ago.

My children were in the toddler years and they were running around the house. My dog had her 50-lb self planted near the back door, on her pillow. One of the kids ran right up to her bed, waking her up and startling her. She had to move to avoid him, and in the process of moving, she snapped at that child. Her teeth did not even touch his skin- but she was awfully close and she was pissed. It wasn't at all the friendly interaction that I'd seen for the previous several years between the dog and my children.

I was very upset. I called the rescue person that I'd gotten her from originally, and she suggested that I take her to the vet to rule out any physical problems and then pick up a copy of Brian Kilcommon's book Good Owners, Great Dogs. Since she had nipped a person the year before (no breaking of skin- she had misinterpreted playing between an adult guest and my kids and thought she was protecting them), I could not in good conscience rehome her.

After doing the vet thing and picking up the book, I felt much better. I highly recommend his book - he has some really good advice. I think what you'll learn is that you've given your dog a spot in the house to call his own and then allowed the child to invade that safe spot. I moved my dog's safe spot to another part of the house where the kids weren't allowed to go into without me, and really she hasn't had another problem since then.

Please don't take this the wrong way- in a sense, it is your fault for setting up the situation. Once you understand that you really shouldn't give the dog his safe spot in an area where he can be disturbed by a 2 year old, you'll get that the dog isn't particularly bad, but your actions that lead to that incident weren't the wisest. Please don't take that as criticism. It isn't meant to be.

That said, I no longer allow my children or any other person free access to my dog. She has her place in this household, and it isn't on a corner of my bed where the kids can jump around and disturb her. She doesn't have the perfect tempermant for that.

So I've re-established the order in the household, and she is at the bottom, well underneath the kids. The kids can give her commands now (under my supervision) and that reinforces her position in the household.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

46. I don't take it as criticism

just advice. I see your point about his safe spot. I think "next to G-Ma" is safe spot for a whole lot of the critters in my house, human and animal alike. I will need to re-examine that practice.

[driver8]

75. What a great post! We have a similar situation with our dog.

We have had our dog, Buddy, for about a year. We got him from our local shelter and the reason we adopted him is because he is so easy going and great with the kids. However, about a month ago we had company and Buddy was barking at their little girl and scared the sh*t out of her. Also, if he gets excited when playing with the kids he will start to "nip" at them.

We are working with a trainer who is doing pretty much what you said. We have established a "safe place" for him and we are training him to go to his place and stay until we release him.

I think I will pick up a copy of that book, though. It sounds like a good one.

Here is a picture of Buddy with our munchkins Daniel and Leah.

[MissB]

76. Cute dog!

And even cuter kids!

I didn't mention in my post that my dog is very much an Alpha female. It really has helped that the kids are now able to give commands to her (they're in early elementary school). Until they were big enough to do so, I had to gently reinforce the commands that they (tried) to give her.

[driver8]

77. I think Buddy is still trying to figure out his place in our "pack".

He is usually very easy going and somewhat submissive with my wife and me, but I have a feeling that he thinks that the kids might be beneath him in the "pecking order."

Buddy is such a great dog and I hope we can get this problem straightened out.

[Book Lover]

32. Um, "bad dog"?

The dog found a junior member of the pack was trying to gain the upper hand by disturbing the dog's rest-space; the dog put the junior member of the pack back in his place. That's not how it looks to you and me, but that's the dog's POV. And you sure put the dog in his place in the pack, throwing him across the room. Bet he shakes when you come close. Look, I'm a mom; I understand your emotions right now. But don't blame the dog for not conforming to human behavior norms. Maybe you should not be living with this or any canine.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

54. You wrote

"maybe you should not be living with this or any canine."

Would you elaborate? Do you mean because we have infants in the house? I have been wondering that. I have had dogs all my life, usually as many as four at a time, but oddly enough when my own children were very young we lived in an apt. and had cats. So I am just not certain whether dogs and babes are a good combo.

We've had dobermans, a great dane, four goldens, one black lab, one yellow lab, a "schnoodle" and for a while we bred dachshunds and always had two. As I got older the dachsies got under my feet a little too much, so when the last one died we didn't replace her. We did have an English bulldog but she was very, very aggressive and my son took her over. He is single. (for one more week!) But I've never had a dog bite. My daughter, however, was mauled and almost killed by a rottie who was at a horse show. She had many stitches and some time in the hospital. That dog was destroyed because he had a rap sheet. We always had horses, goats, chickens and geese. I have personally been bitten by a goose. As a matter of fact I have been chased and run down by an angry gander when I got too close to his nest. But I've never been bitten by a dog.

I guess you can tell I like animals.

[Xithras]

63. You just have to watch the breed.

Different breeds have different character traits, varying levels of pack awareness and territoriality, and substantially different responses to stress. Small, territorial, high strung dogs shouldn't be anywhere around children. The first dog that attacked my son was a Lhasa Apsa, a breed well known for its territoriality. The second was a chihuahua mix, another breed well known for its "bite first, ask questions later" penchant.

I own a blonde laborador today, and it's the mellowest, most family friendly animal I've ever had the pleasure to share a house with. My 18 month old son climbs all over her, tugs her tail, and occasionally even pulls on an ear. She has NEVER reacted badly to the baby...when she gets uncomfortable she just stands up, shakes him off, and finds a quieter place to relax :)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

64. That's just the way our lab is.

She is like a nursemaid or something. She stares at the babies all day. Just looks and pants. The only dog bite I ever had was a chihuahua. One of my students brought her in for show and tell. I reached out to let her sniff my hand and she bit right through my thumbnail!

Our boxer is very gentle but like a good gentleman he removes himself from difficult situations.

[Blue Diadem]

95. Xithras, I agree, it was small dogs that bit my son

DH's parent's mini dachshund latched onto my youngest son's wrist as he walked down the sidewalk with his cousins. Luckily no puncture. The other, a Sheltie, belonged to my SIL & BIL's neighbor. My SIL told me the dog ran across the yard and leapt up and bit him on the face. It did puncture his lower eyelid but didn't scratch his eye thank goodness. Luckily there are no scars.

Both times there were many kids around and my son was the youngest and the easiest to attack. I kept my kids away after that..neither dog was put down. MIL blamed my son for it. SIL's neighbor's sheltie was always loose and within a year or so, was run over and killed.

I don't know if the two breeds are known to bite but I do know a neighbor here had a sheltie and they had to have it put down. It had attacked my elderly dog and then later bit someone.

[Book Lover]

69. Yes, and also

Yes, I would certainly say that if you can't control your dog pack with an infant in the house, you should prioritize your human family - after all, we're the humans, right?

But something you said bothers me, and it's at the heart of what I'm trying to say. Above, you say, "so when the last one died we didn't replace her"

Replace. You didn't replace your dog. As if you have a checklist of household goods and "Dog" is one of those items. In my opinion and in my household only, a dog is accorded the respect you would give a person. One wouldn't say that about a human family member who died; I also would not say that about a dog.

I hope I haven't offended. I am just trying to be clear about my perspective.

[IsIt1984Yet]

44. What would you do if it were a Rottweiller displaying that aggression ...

... towards a LITTLE CHILD, no less?!! Honestly, ask yourself that question. There's a false sense of security with the small breeds and it's a dangerous mindset. That dog could seriously injure, maim or kill (yes, kill) a small child. If not your grandchild, someone else.

If you had said that it was a Rott or a pit who did that, I'd bet that many here would have told you EXACTLY what to do with that dog.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

57. There are many pit bulls in my area

and they are very scary dogs to me. I know they have their defenders, however. Down the street they have a wolf. That doesn't seem right to me. It is a lovely animal but it looks miserable.

[LeftyMom]

61. My best friend has a wolf hybrid

He's almost entirely wolf and a very tiny bit of malaute, so he's enormous. He's the sweetest guy ever though, very gentle with kids, large and small dogs (though he's also very clear that he expects thier submission) and even cats and kittens. The problem with wolves and hybrids is that even more than dogs they really need a caregiver who understands dominance and pack dynamics and they need near-constant socialization. When people treat them like dogs, leave them alone for the afternoon, give them the idea that they're running things, that's when trouble happens. Too few people are willing to be the bad guy, to demand unswerving obedience and to establish dominance from puppyhood on, which is how they run into problems with wolves and hybrids.

That said, wolves are wild creatures and people really shouldn't be breeding more of them in captivity. They really don't make very good pets because as I said one has to watch them nearly 24-7 and they require as much attention as a rather needy and problematic human child.

[IsIt1984Yet]

62. A dog who is aggressive towards a 2 year-old child far more scary than

any pit I've met.

[Dangerously Amused]

66. That's funny, because if a Rottweiler did that to a child

...I would be all the MORE impressed with the Rotti's self discipline, and with the fact that he did NOT use his much greater strength and size to harm the child with more than a few bruises, when he so easily could have done so.

In fact, your case scenario would convince me all the more that this is NOT a "bad dog."

[RebelOne]

72. I have a Rottweiler and she would never show any type

of aggression toward children. It is all in how the dog is raised. People are always saying stuff like that: What if it had been a Rottweiler or a pit bull. My son has a cocker spaniel that is a whole lot more aggressive and vicious than my Rottie. In fact, I am frightened to even pet him. It is not the dog's fault. It is the owner to blame. Like the title of a book (the author I do not remember), There Are No Bad Dogs, Only Bad Owners.

[IsIt1984Yet]

74. That was precisely my point.

I'd guess that many would have jumped to say that a breed "known" for aggression should be destroyed/relocated. And, they are more likely to give the more "lovable" dogs a pass. I think that's wrong, Any dog who shows aggression towards a small child should be removed from the home of a small child. In addition, I have witnessed far more aggression in the smaller breeds simply because people allow it.

[undeterred]

50. You need to get a veterinarian's opinion

In an older dog this can be really bad news. The 12 year old dog of a neighbor of mine had to put there dog down after it bit their grandchild in the face, causing him to need 18 stitches. Dog and baby had always been together with no problems. The vet told them that once an older dog loses its inhibition about biting, it isn't safe to have it around children. They had to report it to the police and have it quarantined after the bite, so they had to put it down.

Your dog is younger - but I would still have a professional give their opinion on it. Maybe the dog should be in a home without children.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

55. Yes, the thing that was so startling

is that this dog has been around this child since the beginning. The baby is not an ear puller or anything like that. I am really wondering whether he might have a physical problem that caused him sudden pain.

Oh, and when I threw him across the room, he landed on the opposite couch. He's been trying to make it up to me all day. Very lovey dovey. I swear he has a human mind behind those bug eyes.

[undeterred]

59. they were devastated

and since the grandchild was frequently at their home for babysitting they knew what they had to do. A younger dog they might have been able to give away. But they couldn't let it happen twice. The bite was really bad, and the child wasn't mean to it- they don't really know why the dog reacted that way.
I can't imagine my dog biting, but I guess any animal is capable of it.

[a kennedy]

51. Yup, gotta get rid of him, or just make sure he never is around

kids......it's that simple, that, or kill him. No excuse for that biting, but that is just not acceptable behavior.

[Joey Liberal]

65. That dog has to go

My 80 pound Pit Bull has never even done something like that.

[Southsideirish]

71. Watch him closely around visiting kids - there's always a first time and i

could be terrible for all concerned. I know a couple who had a St. Bernard and had a bunch of people over for Xmas. The dog wasn't used to kids and he bit a 3 yr old in the face. He needed like 90 stitches - everyone freaked out as he had always been so "sweet" before and "good with kids." You never know - just be careful!

[Inspired]

73. You are right, read on for my story

Our beloved cairn terrier, Frankie, was put to sleep in October 2004. Frankie was physically healthy but he attacked my daughter. Twice in less than two months Frankie bit her, unprovoked, on the face. The first time required 'gluing' on a cut by the eye. We gave him another chance and he bit her again on the nose. It caused some scraping and bruising.

The next day we called 2 animal behaviorists, the local ARL, a couple of no kill shelters and our vet. No one would take him and all recommended that Frankie be put down. We did so that very day. It was a very painful decision and I still cry about it. We loved Frankie dearly and I grieved like I never have before.

I now have Frankie's ashes on a shelf. At first I used to pick up the box and tell him I was sorry. I no longer do that but I still mourn him. Although the decision to put him down was difficult, and my grief/guilt at times unbearable, I know in my heart that it was the right thing to do. Luckily their are no lasting scars on my daughter's face but it could have been worse.

Good luck to you.

[Joey Liberal]

110. That's a sad story

I love my dog too. But if she bit my daughter, she'd be gone before the sun set. Luckily, as strong as my dog is, she's gentle around my daughter and other kids. But, a dog is a dog, and one can never be too careful.

[Southsideirish]

70. Don't "blame" the dog - he was either protecting you or his own "lair" -

its no more his "fault" than its my "fault" for sneezing or yawning. My brother (right winger) almost killed his little silky terrier for biting him on the hand after the little guy lifted his leg on the his beloved grand piano and my brother gave him a wallop. He was just staking out his turf.

MANY dogs and little kids (especially visiting grandkids) are "oil and water" - too many conflicting emotions going on there. We always kept our dog in the basement when the grandkids visited. It worked out well for all concerned as he had snapped in their direction - that's all it took for my mom to know they had to be kept apart.

If you really are un-able to keep them apart and/or have developed a real loathing for the dog, please contact a local rescue group and do both of you a huge favor.

Good luck to you and I hope you can find an equitable solution.

I keep warning my friend who has a 100 lb Lab and 2 tiny tot grandkids who visit every few months that disaster is possibly lurking around the corner but she ignores me - I hope to God that nothing happens.

[BikeWriter]

78. #1. The child's safety! Get that dog out of there.

Somebody should have known boundaries, and it's the dog! I taught all my dogs young that my children owned them. None of them ever dared challenge the children's position in our pack.

[BlackVelvet04]

79. I would take the dog to the vet....

if there wasn't a physical reason for this reaction I would have to put the dog down.

Some have said it was just natural for the dog to do what it did......so what? The very first responsibility you have is to your grandchild.

[blue neen]

80. I'm sure this was extremely unsettling and upsetting for you.

I am not a dog expert by any means. I can only tell you what has been working for us.

We started taking our one year old Papillon to obedience classes six weeks ago. There has been an enormous change in her. She now accepts that we are the "Alpha" dogs of the "pack" in our house here. The instructors emphasized that your dog MUST know that YOU are in charge of the pack. They teach YOU at obedience classes as much as they teach the dogs!

There are exercises that they will do with you to teach the dog how to be submissive. For instance, a "down" position for a dog is very submissive. For some dogs it's very difficult for them to give in to that...that's when you REALLY have to work on getting them to "down." You are in control--your dog needs to know that.

Other posters suggested getting your dog checked by the vet. That's an excellent idea. Then, barring any physical problems, talk to a good dog trainer. We have learned so much.

I hope you are able to get your problem solved. Good luck. :)

[MrsMatt]

81. We had a Boston when I was pretty young (2nd grade)

and he bit me in the face when I didn't offer him respect when he asked. I was playing "house" and he was my baby, albeit an ugly one. When he'd had enough, he growled at me. As "mommy", I wasn't going to take any back talk so I growled back. Then he bit me - I was fortunate in that even though he broke skin, I didn't need any stitches. Now, I knew he had aggressive tendencies, as we'd adopted him from a family that was remodeling, and they were getting rid of him because he was so destructive to their woodwork (if he heard a door slam, he'd wait outside the door until it opened and attack the door). That was the only time he ever bit a family member (he did bite at least one other person, but then, she slammed her car door and that was provocation enough for him), and there were four children in the family and we played rough.

n hindsight, I know that I could have been hurt much worse than I was, as he bit me around my nose (he could have bitten it off). But, as a mother, I know how protective you feel about your grandchildren. I guess I'd give him another chance - you've received a lot of good advice here, but it really boils down to how comfortable you feel with the dynamics in your home.

Good luck and I'm glad your grandson wasn't seriously hurt.

[grasswire]

82. the Dog Whisperer would say this is a "red zone" dog

You might try catching the Dog Whisperer's program on National Geographic television network. Or he has a video out, a book, and a web site. I know that his techniques would probably train the dog in a very short time -- I've seen it work in just a few minutes. His basic philosophy as a dog behaviorist is that the humans must establish themselves as pack leaders, and the dogs must be calm and submissive to a calm and assertive pack leader. The child is part of pack leadership, and it is possible for the dog to be submissive around the child.

You might want to check him out. Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer. If you're in Los Angeles, he makes house calls.

[pitohui]

85. oh my god

the dog should be removed from your home, of course, but i would feel some guilt abt donating him to a shelter or rescue where there is the chance the dog could end up in another home and potentially injure another child

we had a dog in our neighborhood whose aggressive behavior was tolerated and ignored by many, including me, much to the sorrow of a 9 yr old boy who ended up being mauled by the dog

we really can't do brain surgery on dogs and change their behavior, once they have shown their willingness to attack our young, we have to put them down

to me it would be dishonest to pass on the dog to someone else, at 7 years old the dog either knows that it is unacceptable to attack humans or it is beyond the training

you will have to let your conscience be your guide, but keep in mind that everyone else's grandson is just as precious to them as your grandson is to you

do not allow sentiment to put another child at risk, is my strong advice, i will always feel guilty that i pooh-poohed the complaints of several people who said they had been threatened by the dog in our neighborhood, including my husband, not a small man

[BikeWriter]

87. Very good advice.

[Mz Pip]

111. When I was about 2 I got bit

by the family pet. She started jumping on me and biting me. Completely unprovoked.

After taking me to the Dr. my dad took the dog out to the field and shot it. I didn't know what happened to that dog until about 20 years later.

That attack is one or my earliest childhood memories. I don't fault my dad for what he did one bit.

Why tempt fate?

Mz Pip
:dem:

[alphafemale]

92. Imagine, looking at a disfiguring scar on your teen grandson's face.

Imagine the stares and comments that were his reality throughout his entire childhood.

Imagine that he doesn't remember looking "normal."

You have to do something.

Don't wait for a bite that causes damage.

edited for typo

[Deep13]

94. This is not a question of balancing considerations.

It is not a question of the rights of the dog versus the rights of the child. It is also not a question of bad intent on the canine's part as such a characterization is ridiculous for an animal. Obviously, safety comes first. If the dog for whatever reason is displaying violent tendencies, that danger must be eliminated from the household. It is hugely irresponsible to take a wait-and-see attitude because one has squishy feelings for the dog.

If there is some other place the dog can immediately go, then fine, but there won't be. There are already more "rescued" animals available than there are people who want them and most of them are not violent.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

96. GREAT NEWS!

The vet said that all is well physically, but that the dog is older and irritable and not good around kids anymore.

So...we DID contact the Boston terrier rescue and the lady who runs it is taking him. She guaranteed he would be safe with her. She has four. She says they place them fairly easily, and that if they didn't place them he would live with her. She has no children or grandchildren.

My only concern is that she smokes, but that's kind of like looking a gift horse in the mouth. He's been around smoke before, but he's kind of been my lap baby.

Anyway, the advice I got here was awesome, passionate and informed. I thank you all. THIS is what grass roots internet is all about!

[Blue Diadem]

98. Hugs TG

:hug:

I'm glad you found a place for him.

[Bridget Burke]

99. Congratulations...

I've been reading through the thread, hoping the dog wouldn't be put down.

Apparently, he's only guilty of being grouchy. I bet he'll be happy in his new home.

It sounds as though you've got a houseful.

[BikeWriter]

101. Great news, Grannie. You're doing the right thing.

The children's safety has to be top priority.

[Patiod]

108. Good to hear. You were brave to even post something like this

Some people are black and white: "all dogs are inherently good and even if you fling a dog in defense of a baby, you suck" or "if you don't immediately put down/get rid of the dog, you're committing child abuse.

Glad you found a sensible solution that everyone will be happy with - the dog will have a home where he won't be annoyed by children, the child will be safe, and you won't be worried.

Now, you need to tell people here about your cat that hunts birds.....

[alphafemale]

109. That's probably the best possible outcome.

You really can't take risks with young children around.

They've got to be the priority.

I'm glad you found a safe place for your dog, though.

[Burma Jones]

97. Self Delete

[Magrittes Pipe]

100. .

:shrug:

[noonwitch]

102. I have a good dog, but she's nipped at my neice before

Luckily, my sister is a reasonable parent who understands that little children need to learn that if you stick your fingers in a dog's mouth, the dog will probably bite it.

My dog loves the kid in question, but she makes her limits clear. Luckily, she doesn't really bite her, she just growls and nips at her.

Even patient dogs can only take so much of little kids.

[fleabert]

105. get the dog to a behaviorist.

training and responsible guardianship of both dog and child is the best path.

many dog behavior issues can be resolved with changes in diet, training, and the possible addition of medication in the most severe cases.

in the immediate: do not leave the dog and the child alone, nor allow them to play. children's faces are not targets for dogs, they just happen to be the closest thing to the dog's level. Children also do not understand boundaries very well- and the dog may not see the child as one in the upper part of the pack- the child's standing in the pack needs to be established through good training and behavioral adjustments for the whole family.