DU Parents.... HELP!!!!

[purr]

Ok, I am at my wits end here with my 2, 3 in May, daughter. Shes been potty training since she was about 2 and has been doing well. This morning I had to put a diaper on her. I had my son in August and ever since about November-December she has been having accidents about 4-5x a day. This was just peeing her pants so I figured it was probably normal. Took her to the doctor just to make sure nothing was wrong and nothing was.

Fast forward to this month. She has now been pooping her pants about 2x a day. In fact, she did it this morning when I was taking her to the bathroom. She woke up screaming because of the thunder and lightning. As soon as I got to the bathroom I smelled something bad and it was everywhere.

Two days ago we were visiting a neighbor.. I took her pee before we left, then we got to my neighbors I took her about 1/2 later. Probably about 10 min after she peed, I noticed her hiding inside of her front door. So I figured she was ready to leave and we went back home. I took her upstairs to pee and to get a bath and she pooped herself again (2nd time that day). I called my neighbor to tell her after everything was cleaned up and she took a bath and she said that she found a turd on her entry. The 2nd time she did it that day is when she was outside playing with the neighbor boy, I brought her in for lunch - took her upstairs to pee and she was covered in it again.

I have thrown away about 10 pairs of pants in the past 4 days and I cant keep on doing that.

She keeps saying shes a baby which I'm thinking shes jealous of the baby. Shes complaining about the diaper right now and I'm not about to take it off until she can show me she will stop going in her pants. Is this the wrong thing to do??

My son wasnt this hard to train, he had maybe 2 accidents and that was it.. She has 2 before noon every day (pee usually). She has a hyper bladder like I do, so I understand her going pee a lot in a day. I have to go about 20-30x a day myself and shes showing that shes just like me. Nothing wrong with either of us (both dr checked).

She starts going to Sunday school in the fall and we keep tellng her that she cant go if she pees her pants. They have to be potty trained and shes really looking forward to going.

Please can someone give me any suggestions on what to do?? I am at a complete loss and the pediatrician has no suggestions. I'm getting so frustrated with it - why is she going backwards?? She knows shes doing it too.

[AirmensMom]

1. I'm sorry, purr.

:hug: It does sound like she's jealous of the baby. We were warned it could happen when our second one came along, but we were lucky at that point. We did have some problems with the second one, though, and we didn't even have a third baby. She was OK during the day, except that she pooped her pants. And she wet her bed almost every night until she was about 5. Same story with the doctors -- nothing wrong.

Now, I hope I don't get flamed for this part, but it worked. Finally, I was at my wit's end ... as I'm sure you are. We asked the doctor for a prescription for an antidepressant (I think it was called Tofranil or something like that). I had read that it worked a lot of times for these problems. He wasn't too happy about it b/c he said it would only work as long as she was on the antidepressant. But he prescribed three months worth anyway. Well, the first day on them, she woke up dry and didn't poop her pants during the day. But she complained that they made her feel funny. Here's where we got creative. We decided to use her flouride pills as placebos. I explained that the orange pills were a little stronger than the white (flouride) pills and that maybe we should alternate them every other day if she was doing well. That was fine with her. Then we would do one day orange, two days white pills and so on so that she eventually was taking only the white pills. We never used up the Tofranil prescription and her problem was solved.

Let me make it clear that I don't like giving and taking meds unless absolutely necessary. This was a last resort and it solved the problem for us ... although I don't really know why. I have a theory that the orange pills did work but also gave her confidence. Who knows?

I certainly know how frustrating it is and hope you find an answer that works for you. :hug:

[Karenina]

2. Purr, THIS is the kid's first display

of her own control of her body. It's a battle you cannot "win," nor do you want to in reality. She's been resisting "your will" for 6 months now...
Maybe try putting her back in diapers, without blame or retribution for a month or two. Let her tell you when she's ready to try again. You're correct she KNOWS what she's doing.

[Ms. Toad]

3. She may know - but she may not be able to control it

This is the age at which my daughter began showing symptoms of ulcerative colitis. (This is rare for a child this age, but it is very serious.) The first symptoms were bowel incontinence after having control in the past, and hiding when she was having a bowel accident. I fought with her physician for a year - he kept telling my there was nothing wrong. I finally insisted on seeing a gastro doc (the primary doc handed me a phone book and said "good luck finding one"). She was diagnosed within a couple of weeks later with ulcerative colitis throughout her entire colon (had we caught it earlier it would likely have involved only a part of her colon. Her colon cancer risk now (at age 15) is the same as her 70+ grandfather.

With your daughter it probably is just displaying control over her body, given the timing. But several things reminded me of my daughter's experience so it would be a good idea to keep a watch on it. If it involves overnight incontinence (the overnight incident you described comes close), if there is any blood you can see, or if the stools become progressively looser, go see a GI doc (regardless of whether your primary doc thinks there is anything wrong).

Whether it is medical or a way of asserting control, treating it matter of factly is good. "You're having accidents, we need to protect things than your accidents could hurt by making sure you're the accidents don't get into clothing or bedding. When you stop having accidents you can try big girl pants again."

[Karenina]

5. You GO, Ms Toad!!!

:thumbsup: ((((BIG HUGS))) all around for Purr and daughter! :grouphug:

[Debbi801]

4. Doctor first to rule out anything medical.....

like a UTI.

It could also very likely be regression due to the new baby. If this is the case, you acnnot force her to stop doing it, she has to decide on her own. Like someone else said, it is something she can control. If she has an accident, don't give her attention, just matter-of-factly have her help you clean up herself and the mess.

Good luck!

[NewJeffCT]

6. You might have to suck it up for a bit

We started putting my now 3 years & 2 month old daughter on the potty a little before she was 2 years old. She was thrilled at first and we'd even have trouble taking her off the potty.

However, she never took the final step of going all the time on the potty, instead stubbornly going in her pull-ups. We tried bribery & other things to get her to go all the time, but she was really stubborn. We told her if she wanted to go to school, she'd have to use the potty all the time. Then, she'd just say, "I'm a baby." We went back & forth for over a year on this.

Finally, when she hit 3 years old, she's decided to go on the potty all the time. We ended up buying some of those cotton training pants so she can really feel it when she gets wets, instead of the disposable pull-up training pants from Pampers or Huggies. I think that's made a huge difference, too. Now, I think she's had 1 or 2 accidents in the past 2 weeks, and just pee. She does all of her poo on the potty now, too.

But, my point is, we couldn't really force our daughter to go on the potty... we just had to be patient and finally she decided to do it herself.

[philosophie_en_rose]

7. Not a parent: but this worked for my cousin.

Basically, you take her to the bathroom every thirty minutes or so. Make her sit on the potty chair or potty until she goes. Don't shame her for having accidents, but highly praise going to the potty. And ask "do you need to go to the potty" all of the time. Emphasize what great things she'll be able to do, when she uses the potty like a grown up. That she'll be able to do them, but that she'll have to wait until she's ready. Sort of a carrot - stick approach.

I don't know if it will work for you, but 1) watching for signals, 2) pull ups, and 3) positive reinforcement might help.

I'm not a parent, so I'm clueless about kid psychology. But one of the questions that would affect my strategy would be whether she's doing this on purpose. If she can't help it right now, you can help her learn. But if she's doing this on purpose, then she already knows, but would rather have negative attention right now.

[tjdee]

8. Maybe you can deal with her jealousy of the baby?

If you're right (and I think you are) that she is jealous of the baby, perhaps you can deal with that and indirectly solve the problem?

No ideas there, I only have one child. I'm in awe of those of you that have more than one.

Though, my kneejerk reaction would be to put her in diapers/pull-ups for a while longer. And if she doesn't get it by the fall, you can stick her in a pull-up. No one says kids HAVE to be potty trained by a certain time, and you can't keep replacing pants. She's not going to be 15 in diapers, LOL. I am a big believer in letting kids go at their own pace, AKA, pushover wuss. But again, I only have one child and I can imagine how much stress and work this is for you.

Good luck! :hug:

[Fleshdancer]

9. it sounds psychological

First of all, I'm sorry about your situation. This must be very frustrating for you. Since your pediatrician ruled out any physical issues, it sounds like your daughter needs more help adjusting to the fact that she's no longer the "baby".

This might sound a little odd, but what if you involved her in a small way when it comes to changing the baby? Maybe ask her if she thinks it's time to change the baby and have her hand you the diaper and then the baby powder or lotion. The idea is to slowly ease her in her role as the older sibling and let her know her role is very important to the family. This could also work in other areas...if the baby is crying, ask her if it's time to feed the baby then let her help prepare in some way.

Also let her know that she enjoys certain things that her baby sibling can't because she's a big girl...playing with certain toys that aren't age appropriate for a baby, eating certain foods, drinking from a sippy cup, etc.

Good luck!

on edit: I would go back to either the diaper or pull-ups for a few weeks and focus on her transition as the older sibling for now. If her accidents are a symptom of her adjustment problems then fixing the problem is step one. You don't want to add any more stress to the potty training situation (for her or for yourself.)

[gollygee]

10. It takes a long time

my daughter started using the potty a bit around the time she turned 2, and was using it pretty well at 3, but she has just now gone for the first time a few months without an accident and she just turned 4. She had times with very few accidents, and times with more accidents, but I think she *finally* has it. And that was without the added stress of a new baby.

Sorry but I'm afraid it might just take a while. If she's having trouble she might just need diapers for a while again. Or get used to cleaning up. My daughter was able to clean up after herself and get herself new underpants when she had an accident. Not giving her diapers and having her clean up accidents herself (with help usually) will probably get things going the fastest for you. But it still might take a while.

:hug:

[trof]

11. Lots of good advice in the replies. Maybe a little more?:

Does sound like more of a psychological thing than physical.
When our daughter was a little over 4, she'd been out of diapers for nearly 2 years.
Our dog was hit and killed and she started wetting the bed at night.
You never know how emotional things will affect little kids.
Or big ones, for that matter.

For many kids a new sibling is a BIG disruption and change.
Of necessity, babies get more attention.
From what you say, she's lost "baby sister" status and is now a middle child.
The fact that she now says she's a baby is a dead giveaway to me.

I'm afraid I can't offer any more advice than "kindness and patience".
Does she have friends her age who are out of diapers?
Sometimes peer pressure can work for good.
When our grandson found out one of his buddies was in "big boy" pants he couldn't lose the diapers fast enough. Not without some accidents, but he was determined.

Best of luck. I know it ain't easy.

[electron_blue]

12. ignore the accidents and deal with her new insecurities, it should

take care of itself. Give her lots of reassurance, and let her know she doesn't have to grow up all at once, yes you will still take care of her, even though she has a little brother. I've been there, whoaaaaa, this is not a "new to toilet training" issue and so I say focus on what her real problem is, not the accidents, but her dealing with her new place in the family.

[LeftyMom]

13. Watch for a pattern when it happens

LeftyKid has accidents when he's too busy with what he's doing to remember to go, so I make a point of reminding him of that situation.

If the problem is jealousy of the new baby and desire for attention, try a lot of reassuring physical contact like having her sit on your lap while you watch tv or snuggling with a book and some dedicated time with her and without the baby every day- for example if your husband can handle the baby for half an hour or so, try making a habit of taking a walk alone with your daughter.

If she's resisting the pull-ups, I think cloth trainers would be a good intermediate step. BTW, there's really no need to throw away pants after an accident, just wash them by themselves to remove all the ick and then again with a regular load to get them nice and clean. If a little odor control is needed, quirt a little bit of Simple Green in the wash load, it breaks down organic materials nicely.