Does a Movie Have 2 have a Gay theme

[angee_is_mad]

to gain DU approval? I'm just curious. All the movies were political or socially conscious, but what is up with the Crash brashing on here.

Is it more comfortable to discuss homosexuality on a liberal site than it is to talk about racism? What affects more Americans personally, homosexuality or racism? Hell, both films were about intolerance and IMO it was a win win situation. Well at least people are taking about the issues I guess..

Can't we all get along? BTW, congrats to 3 Six Mafia!!!

[KitchenWitch]

1. My big beef with Crash was the fact that it confronted most forms of

bigotry, but did not confront homophobia.

[angee_is_mad]

4. and Brokeback,,,,

confronted racism? Why not a black cowboy and a white cowboy? The color of the cowboys would not have changed the story line. Oh btw, Crash was a racism in America.

[KitchenWitch]

7. I did not say Brokeback confronted racism

however Brokeback did confront an "acceptable" form of prejudice in our society. Racism has been confronted in Hollywood for decades, but homophobia is only starting to get the face time.

[QC]

11. You nailed it. n/t

[mondo joe]

12. Brokeback wasn't about confronting anything - it wasn't a MESSAGE movie.

It was about characters.

[KitchenWitch]

14. But in the characters and the crafting, it DID confront homophobia

[mondo joe]

18. I could equally argue it's an anti-gay movie, if I cared to. That's part

of the beauty of it. It just told a story - it didn't have an axe to grind.

(In fact, I'm rather surprised that more fundies didn't project an anti gay message onto it.)

[joshcryer]

22. It became a message movie...

...as soon as the controversy started about what it was about. It's that simple. That's why so many here are upset about it because they were inundated with "Brokeback Mountian" for months and months through the media.

[mondo joe]

25. No, the movie remained the same. And there was barely any controversy

anyway - but it doesn't change the movie.

[joshcryer]

44. *Barely* any controversy?

Do you not watch cable news or listen to talk radio? It was huge. The coverage it got was insane. It was actually pretty pathetic, as I didn't think it was a controversial subject at all. We've seen gay romance movies before (but none with multimillion dollar budgets). I just don't see why people don't get that.

[mondo joe]

50. To the contrary - the fundies largely ignored it. You can find articles

about it.

The coverage it got was about how well it was doing, which was something of a surprise. But there was little controversy - no boycotts or pickets or dire pronouncements.

I've seen movie controversy - this wasn't it.

[angee_is_mad]

33. HELLO, that's my point

Brokeback was the MOVIE to beat , because of the early buzz and the hot, sexy MOVIE STARS in it. While Crash was a truly independent movie that was made for only 6 million bucks and had an ensemble so big that one forget Sandra Bullock was it.

Unfortunately, I feel that a lot of ppl probably went to see BM because they were on some voyeuristic tip and wanted to see if Heath and Jake would really kiss each other. I'm just keeping it real folks.

[mondo joe]

36. Baloney. Both were indies. And Crash had far more stars in it.

I'm sure you believe you are "keeping it real" but I'd suggest you are instead keeping it speculative.

[angee_is_mad]

41. All were indies, except

Munich I do believe. My point about Crash was that it was an ensemble and yes you had some stars in it, but it wasn't about the stars.

Like I said in an earlier post, tonight was a win-win situation, because this year there were no fluff movies. I would have been fine if BM or Good Night had won. I just don't appreciate a really good film being brashed tonight because it didn't touched on the sexy topic of homosexuality, but instead touched on a subject that I've found that makes some ppl even on DU uncomfortable to discuss.

[KitchenWitch]

49. I would venture to say that homophobia makes more DUers

uncomfortable than racism.

[angee_is_mad]

57. I beg to differ

I've even heard ppl suggest that America doesn't have a racism problem as much as a classism problem. America has a racism and a classism problem people!

[KitchenWitch]

65. I disagree

We are inundated overtly with messages of "Gays are an abomination to God" in today's society. We are not sent the message that all of the various ethnicities are an abomination to God.

[angee_is_mad]

70. Racism is a thing of the past

and blacks need to get the chip off their shoulder and move on. Look at Condi, what more do you people want? Forty acres and a damn mule?

Jeez, negroes are always whining,whining, whining.

[KitchenWitch]

71. My point is, that people are more afraid of gays, than of people

of other ethnicities. We have made progress in racism, I agree we are not "there" yet, but we are further away with our attitudes about homosexuality.

[angee_is_mad]

73. Racism is more subtle now

and Crash spotlighted that fact. A homosexual person can go on a job interview and there's a chance that the employee doesn't realize that he/she is gay and the subject may never come up. Meanwhile that same employer will know when a black person is sitting across from him/her and could (would?) base the hiring process on that fact alone. The sad fact is that the interviewer may not realize that he/she is doing it. That's what we have progress too.

[KitchenWitch]

76. I never said racism was GONE...

And you will not persuade me, ever, that homophobia is not more pervasive than racism. It is still "acceptable" in society to tell gay jokes, but is no longer okay to tell ethnic jokes.

[angee_is_mad]

77. I've meet racist homosexuals

and homophobic blacks and I didn't mean to imply that you said that racism was GONE. My point is that racism is just as prevalent today as yesterday, it just takes a different shape. I'm sure that you feel the same way about homosexuality. Homophobia is still prevalent today as yesterday but it has taken a different shape.

Blacks don't have to seat on the back of the bus and nowadays it is easier for gays to come out of the closet. It is hard I'm sure, but it is possible. Just like blacks can vote, but their vote doesn't always count(Ohio, Florida).

[KitchenWitch]

79. Just so you are aware, I am straight

I have seen the prejudices that many of our gay bretheren and lesbian sisters encounter, and frankly, from my point of observation, it is FAR and AWAY more prevalent than even the subtle racism you speak of.

[angee_is_mad]

80. and I'm Black

it's great that you can see the prejudices without it affecting you personally. I must say I admire that trait and let's hope that you're never affected personally by any prejudice. Its a fine line that blacks and (I'm sure) gays have to walk everyday.

[KitchenWitch]

81. I am Chippewa

I do see prejudice, but not to the degree as I see homophobia.

I am also married to an Amerasian man, so it is not like I have not ever encountered racism.

[NMMNG]

86. Do you even realize how many people kill themselves

(or attempt to) rather than "come out" to an unaccepting family? How many never come out because they are terrified of the reactions from family, friends, co-workers and the like? Because they are afraid of losing their freedom, their jobs, their homes, their loved ones, even their lives?

Yes, it is easier in some cases to come out than it was in the past, but under today's fundie-driven paranoia it can often be harder, if not impossible. There's just too much at risk.

[QC]

72. What a bizarre non sequitur of a response. n/t

[LiberalGuy000]

54. so many people don't get it

We're not upset because we can't handle talking about racism! We're upset because we sincerely thought that "Crash" was a bad movie. The subject matter isn't the issue.

[joshcryer]

42. The stars in crash were there for the message.

Pretty much.

[k_jerome]

51. which did more box office? which was favored by the bookmakers?

the money never lies.

[angee_is_mad]

60. Brokeback Mountain

remember Crash came out last summer and BM buzz was happening before it hit the movie theaters because of its big name stars.

The bookies predicted that BM would win, but that it could be upsetted by Crash. Interesting enough the bookies and critics predicted that 3 6 Mafia would would best song also.

[idlisambar]

29. they have to save something for the sequel

One movie can't be expected to cover everything.

[k_jerome]

2. sour grapes when your fav doesn't win.

this year the bigger box office did not matter as it has in the past.

[mondo joe]

3. But Brokeback wasn't about intolerance.

You can read that into it. Hell, you could read an anti-gay message into it, if you care to.

That's part of its brilliance.

I don't care if movies are "socially conscious" - I care about the storytelling. And that's where Crash failed.

[cynatnite]

5. What I like about Brokeback was...

that it didn't hit you over the head with the message. It was so subtle and beautiful in telling the story of two people in love.

I haven't seen Crash, btw, so I can't speak to that.

[mondo joe]

10. I can assure you, subtle CRASH was not.

It hit you over the head, rubbed your face in it, shoved some in your ears.

It was all message. That's all it was.

[Ava]

16. what?

"It was so subtle and beautiful in telling the story of two people in love."

The love story in Brokeback was not "beautiful." Brokeback showed the story of what happens to many gay people, they are ashamed so they lie to themselves other around them. They may get married, have children, and have what seems to be the perfect life. The movie shows how torn apart a family can be by this theme. Adultry whether is it between a man and a woman, man and a man, or a woman and a woman is not "beautiful."

[mondo joe]

19. Terrible things can be beautiful. Hurricanes are, tsunamis are - just not

if you're caught up in one.

[cynatnite]

26. It was beautiful in the telling...

not many movies can do such a fantastic job of telling a story no matter how tragic the story is.

[mondo joe]

34. Annie Proulx has this great short story about some brothers raised by

their father in pretty much a wretched life of work and squalor - one day they finally get some candy - but when they eat it the taste is horrible to them because the sweet is so far from their norm.

I always think of that as the context for all of her Wyoming stories, and is a case in point to me of a terrible thing so beautiful in the telling.

[JI7]

35. actually, it's society that is intolerant

they would like to be open but they can't. Jack's hope that they could live together forever. it wasn't about being ashamed of himself, but about how society views such things.

and Ennis' fear with his flashbacks about the person who was killed.

[Richard Steele]

6. There are many fine films which address the issue of racism.

Crash is not among them.

Please don't try to set up some gay strawman argument-
I have not seen Brokeback Mountain, nor many of the other films
nominated for the Oscars.

I have seen 'Crash' and I do not dislike it because of what it ISN'T:
I very vehemently dislike it for what it _IS_:
A ham-handed, narcissistic, maudlin, childishly manipulative, 2-dimensional
exercise in pointless, formulaic cinematic masturbation.

[LiberalGuy000]

59. totally agree with you, dicksteele

"Crash" is an insult to intelligent, critical thinking. In fact, there's nothing intelligent about it at all.

[Richard Steele]

74. "Crash" is just the latest naked Emperor.

It makes no sense, so all the HYPE tries to convince us
that we just aren't smart enough to "get it".

Look at the 'plot outline' from the official site:
"Several characters of different racial backgrounds collide in one incident,"

What "one incident" ? That's bullshit right there!
The film can't even be HONEST in a 3-sentence synopsis!

It is a scenery-chewing mishmash of cloyingly pretentious clichés,
trying to pass itself off as clever and artistic.

CRASH-propagandists try to convince the public that the film
was just too intelligent for us to truly understand...
Sorry, but it isn't.

This Emperor is not just butt-naked:
He's abnormally pale, crosseyed and chinless,
and could stand to drop a hundred pounds.

[LiberalGuy000]

83. yep, and we must be racist too...

Have you noticed that? The CRASH-propagandists are telling us that the reason we don't like the movie is because we're racist and don't even realize it. It's preposterous!

[angee_is_mad]

85. On that shocking note

Good night and Good luck!

[Richard Steele]

87. Tee hee! Nice one, Angee! I am off to slumberland myself...

"Oh boy, SLEEP! That's where I'm a VIKING!"

See y'all tomorrow.

[Ava]

8. brokeback was the most over-rated movie of the year.

i have nothing against homosexuals, as a matter of fact i have gay family members, but BM was just way over-rated. Crash deserved the award the most, it is the most thought-provoking and well written movie i have seen in a long long time.

[LiberalGuy000]

13. yep, it was thought-provoking alright

Throughout the movie, I kept thinking, "Oh man - another $10 down the toilet!" and "Life is short. Why am I watching this crap?"

[Ava]

17. can you actually tell us what you disliked about the movie

instead of trashing it? please.

[mondo joe]

20. The implausibility of it, for one thing, the ham handedness of it, the

way that race was EXPLICIT rather than complicit in everythinng they did.

What a lousy bunch of stereotypes.

But most of all the way it was all about message, like hitting you in the face over and over again with a sign on a picket line. That's propaganda, not art.

You didn't ask me in particular, but that's my answer.

[Hissyspit]

23. Yup. n/t

[LiberalGuy000]

31. Joe spoke for me

Thanks, Joe! I could write pages about why I thought it was bad, but you summed it up very well. ;)

[LiberalGuy000]

9. no, silly

Many of us thought that "Crash" was a bad movie. It has nothing to do with the subject of the movie - at least for me.

[Skittles]

15. no, it's about which one was a better movie

which, after all, is what the Oscars are all about

[Blue-Jay]

30. Since when?

I thought that the Oscars were about internal MPAA politics, which I admit that I know nothing about.

[Skittles]

32. well, it's SUPPOSED to be about the best of the year

I'm surprised at the Crash/Brokeback feud; I saw all five nominated movies and by far, Good Night and Good Luck was much better than both Crash AND Brokeback

[Blue-Jay]

37. Yeah. In a perfect world, maybe.

I saw "Good Night & Good Luck" and really liked it. I haven't seen the others yet, but I just find it amusing that people get so worked up about how the movie industry decides to pat itself on the back. That's really all it is; It's not about anything else than that. It hasn't been about recognizing the "best" for a long damn time (if ever).

[LiberalGuy000]

62. No, the Oscars only tell us who the Academy Members voted for

There's no way to objectively measure which is the "best movie". Don't let an awards show tell you what you should think.

[Ava]

21. the fact of the matter is

most people that praise Brokeback haven't even seen it. The Oscars have a theme every year. One year they will praise the african americans, the next they will praise the foreigners, and this year they praised the gays. Don't take this the wrong way, because i applaud people in all categories, but my point is that the best movie doesn't always win. I usually disagree with the "academy," but this year when it came to best picture i was shocked that i agreed.

[mondo joe]

24. Is that a "fact"? Can you support your claim?

Of course they do often pick a safe sucky movie as best picture, so Crash was right in keeping with that theme.

[Ava]

27. have you seen brokeback mountain?

???

[mondo joe]

28. Yes, I have. Can you support your claim of "fact"? N/T

[Ava]

38. here are the "facts" you wanted.

One year they will praise the african americans,
Denzel Washington
Halle Berry


the next they will praise the foreigners
Gladiator
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon


this year they praised the gays.
Brokeback Mountain
TransAmerica
Capote

[QC]

39. What did Transamerica win? n/t

[Ava]

46. i didn't say it won anything.

i was mainly talking about nominations

[mondo joe]

40. You said the fact was that most who praise brokeback haven't seen it.

Please support your claim of "fact".

Thanks.

[Ava]

45. i don't have proof of this but i do know that most of the people

and i'm talking about ordinary people, not celebs, that praise the movie have not even seen it. even liberals who talk about how it is a wonderful movie seem almost scared to go and see it.

[mondo joe]

47. So it's not a "fact" - it's your unfounded speculation.

Thanks.

[KitchenWitch]

52. Thank you for

confronting flaws in logic.

[Ava]

61. it funny how you jump all over people who say the movie is awful

without even seeing it, yet you seem fine with people who haven't seen it calling it a wonderful film. :eyes:

i don't know why i am defending myself when i haven't said anything wrong and have been respectful to all the movies' themes. whatever made me feel like i have to defend myself to you is gone. i'm over it. good night.

[mondo joe]

66. Pardon me? I asked you to support your CLAIM of FACT that MOST

people who praise it haven't even seen it.

Support your claim, please, or admit it's just unfounded speculation.

Or don't. I wouldn't try to defend an indefensible position either.

[LiberalGuy000]

64. omg

Interesting perspective. Can't say I've heard that one before.

So what will it be next year? Chinese lesbians?

[Ava]

67. growup

:eyes:

[mondo joe]

69. How exactly do we know what the "theme" is anyway? In the Denzel/Halle

year, just 2 awards inducated a theme, according to you.

How many awards does it take to divine a theme?

[QC]

68. My money is on bisexual Nicaraguans with body image disorders. n/t

[KitchenWitch]

75. Sounds like the old Sally Jessy Raphael show!

[melissaf]

43. Here is my completely unsolicited opinion

of "Brokeback Mountain":

Pretty but slow. Slow, slow, slow. Heath Ledger drove me crazy with his repetitive, dull behavior and the fact that he talked like Boomhauer from King of the Hill. The movie was based on a short story, which focused on the highlights of the otherwise dull, depressing lives of these two men, but the movie had to pad out the original story, so most of the padding was the dull and depressing part.

Overall, I was not all that impressed.

And I think this movie _was_ an "issue" movie, whether the plot seemed that way or not--the reason why Annie Proulx's story got so much attention was because she was exploding the Marlboro Man traditional image of masculinity. That was her goal. Hence, it is an "issue" movie.

[Katherine Brengle]

48. Personally, I love Crash. But I hated that 3 Six Mafia song, ick...

[melissaf]

55. I liked Crash, too

But I was more than happy to see Ang Lee win for Best Director. He so thoroughly deserves it, and the Academy owes him one after shafting him for "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." Man, that still pisses me off.

I guess I'm no different than everyone else having a conniption over their fave losing. I've nursed my Ang Lee grudge for years now! :)

[Ava]

53. my point is

that the academy doesn't usually pick movies that are the best. for example, Shakespeare in Love won over "Life Is Beatiful" in 1998. "Titanic" won in 97, in 2000 American Beauty swept the awards. those are just a few examples. don't jump all over me for defending crash when you all completely attacked the movie, when all i said about brokeback was that is was over-rated like many past nominees and winners.

here is what i think - people are so glad that there is a gay themed movie doing well right now that they are supporting, praising it, and rooting for it even if the movie isn't as good as others that are out there right now. even if you don't like "crash," "good night and good luck" is also and outstanding movie. that's all i have to say about it.

[hobo_baggins]

56. I say just be happy a movie is confronting bigotry at all

a movie can't be all things to all people...crash confronted racism...brokeback confronted homosexuality...just be happy the word on both of them is getting out, and don't get upset because either movie doesn't confront all issues.

[melissaf]

58. hear, hear

[jeffrey_X]

63. Agreed. This year's winning move was going to deal with something

political or social which is big change from any other year I can remember.

Crash, Syriana, Brokeback, Good Night....I would have been fine with any of them winning.

[XemaSab]

78. This is not AIM

Please, for the love of God, spell your words out in their entirety.

[k_jerome]

82. please spell out what AIM is. for the love of god.nt

[jeffrey_X]

84. lol

lol