WTF? Buck O'Neil was NOT voted in to the Baseball HoF???

[SeattleGirl]

Unbelievable! Keith Olbermann said that this was the last vote specifically for players from the old Negro League. They did not vote O'Neil in!! Instead, they voted two WHITE people in.

There is something really wrong with this. :grr:

[maveric]

1. Major Leauge Baseball is and has always been racist!

Buck was a major player in the old Negro leagues. Plus the man is an absolute charm to listen to. Watch Ken Burns Baseball and you'll agree.
He's a fantastic storyteller too.
So Phil Rizzuto, an average player is in just because he played on great Yankee teams, but Buck will never be inducted?
This is so WRONG!

[SeattleGirl]

2. I know. I've heard Buck interviewed several times

And I have his book, "I Was Right On Time." If you haven't read it, I'd highly recommend it.

[maveric]

5. Cool! I didnt know he had a book.

Thanks! I'm hitting Barnes & Noble on Friday.

You notice that in his interviews he never shows any anger or bitterness towards the way Baseball and the USA were when he was playing and growing up. He always has a smile on his face and thanks his maker for allowing him to be able to play a game he loves and make a living out of. In spite of the bullshit he had to deal with.

He belongs in Cooperstown.

[SeattleGirl]

7. Buck tells some great stories in the book

Let me know how you like it.

[Magrittes Pipe]

4. Rizzuto was a great storyteller, too.

Though you're absolutely right that he doesn't belong in the Hall. ;)

[Fenris]

8. Ho-ly Cow!

[Magrittes Pipe]

3. Did you see Buck play?

The trouble with inducting Negro Leaguers at this late date is that there aren't reliable statistics; and the number of people who saw these men at their prime is dwindling.

I'm not saying that O'Neil was NOT a Hall of Fame caliber player (after all, there are Hall of Fame first basemen who were almost certainly lesser players -- George Kelly comes to mind immediately). What I'm saying is that the Hall already has so many marginal members (Kelly, again) that it makes no sense to risk the honor on a player who may not be of such a high caliber.

The Veterans Committee has made a lot of mistakes. Especially in the '40s and the '70s. But I see no need to continue that trend.

Buck O'Neil was a fine ballplayer, and seems to be a fine man. But he was not Josh Gibson or Oscar Charleston. Even among Negro League first basemen, he was almost certainly not of the caliber of Buck Leonard or Mule Suttles. He was no Ben Taylor (who was also a fine pitcher). He was a similar hitter to Tank Carr, but Carr also played third and the outfield.

Again, I'm not saying he is absolutely, positively, not a Hall-of-Famer. But if you want to start lining up all the African-Americans who have been excluded from the Hall due to (at least in part) their skin color, Dick Allen stands at the head of the line.*


*Yes, Allen has also been excluded because he was a prick. But half of his prickishness was in response to racism in Philadelphia.

[maveric]

10. Jim Rice comes to mind too.

Lee Smith
Dave Parker
Lou Whitaker
Andre Dawson
Harold Baines

[Magrittes Pipe]

11. Of those, I would only argue that Whitaker *belongs* in the Hall...

...though a decent case could be made for Rice and Smith -- and maybe Dawson (but based primarily on his outstanding defense before he got hurt). Parker falls just short for me, and Baines would've had to hit better (I know he hit great, but still) to merit inclusion as a DH.

But Sweet Lou... Probably in the upper half of 2Bs already in the damn Hall, and he was dropped after the first ballot? That's a DISGRACE.

His double-play partner should be in, as well.

[Blue_Tires]

6. yeah, it was a snub

i've had a chance to meet O'Neal a couple of times at KC Royals games...great guy

[GOPisEvil]

9. Minnie Minoso got hosed, too, but the HoF is getting its first woman.

Not as much of a snub as O'Neil's, but still...

[Magrittes Pipe]

12. Minoso didn't make the majors till 26, due to race...

...then almost immediately missed the better part of two seasons due to Korea.

He deserves inclusion, I believe.

[xmas74]

13. I just heard him speak on the 20th.

Fantastic speech and a very likable person.