Could use a law school exam pep talk....

[fairfaxvadem]

Having some high anxiety here. First one ever week after next and I'm working on these frigging outlines wondering how in the hell I'm supposed to do this.

I know it's supposed to be some right of passage and all that, but Geez, hundreds of people take these every year. Surely to goodness I can get through it too.

I have never seen any stats on how many people fail out of law school the first semester.

I don't feel like I'm studying enough, that is for sure.

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom anyone might be inclined to share.

[UCLA02]

1. I'm with ya

I fished around for some sympathy around here last night and got it from the people here. I'm in the same "WTF am I doing?" boat.

Good luck with all of your exams.

[fairfaxvadem]

2. any decent advice given then??

The kind souls may not be inclined to handhold two nights in a row!

[UCLA02]

28. Check my post #15

Don't have any other specific advice, since I'm toiling with ya.

[HEyHEY]

3. Here's the same talk I got from my boss when I asked for a pep talk

"Don't fuck this up"

Hey it was a big account.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

4. Just study your anus off.

That's all you can do. Study study study, there's no other way to fill your brain.

[fairfaxvadem]

6. how many times can you study "future interests" I ask???

I am only hoping that I will study enough, whatever "enough" is, and that when I actually sit down to the exams I will say "oh yeah, now I see what is going on." otherwise, I am in deep, deep doo-doo.

[kanrok]

13. Just remember this:

No one will ever ask you about the Rule in Shelley's case ever again.
No one will ever ask you what grade you got in future interests.
So long as you study effectively, you'll do fine.
First year exams are, in large measure, how you respond to pressure.
It's okay to be nervous, everyone is.
Whatever happens, it's not the end of the world, it's a test.
At this point, the hay's in the barn. Get to bed at a decent hour the night before your exam(s).
Good luck.

[UCLA02]

15. For future interests...

I've got a property prof who teaches very abstractly, which is terrible for future interests.

But my criminal law prof used to teach property and she did a BarBri/Gilbert's audio tape series. Check to see if your bookstore has them. Its the best 25 bucks I've spent so far at law school. Her name is Catherine Carpenter and the tapes are perfect. They're about 4-5 hours long total, but well worth it. They come with an outline with examples to follow along, so you're not just staring at the ceiling while listening.

[Droopy]

5. Eat, drink and sleep........uh

whatever it is that you are studying. You must live law studying. When you go out there I want you to be prepared and I want you to leave it all on the field, uh, I mean test.

Well so much for the pep talk. Seriously, I'm in college right now (I'm a junior) and the best thing I can tell you is to read everything you're supposed to read and study until you can't stand it no more, then study some more. Oh, and get a good nights rest before the test. You know this stuff, man. You can do it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. Hopefully you've done good course outlines to this point

That bit me in the ass hard my first year.

Eat, breathe, sleep and shit IRAC (issue, rule, analysis, conclusion). If you've been put on the spot enough in class, try to forget how HORRIBLE you felt and try to remember where you got led to in the thought process. It may sound shitty bu law profs are looking for you to take into account where THEY wanted to take your head with a case.

Hope this helps.

BTW were you able to get a practice exam or one of his/her prior exams to chew on?

[fairfaxvadem]

9. thanks....

so-so on the outlines, working more on them now, just didn't feel sufficiently comfortable doing them really early on. Also, knew I'd revise them a thousand times later on.

I hate that IRAC crap with a passion but i know you are right. I just do it differently in my head, with essentially the same result. I just don't think of my internal organizatin as IRAC'ing since I have come to loathe the acronym. And my core law professors aren't as enamored with us using a "formula" as they are wanting us to say what we have to say, at least, that is what they have stated when asked in class.

I know there is no answer for me, just gotta do it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. They are lying

They aren't looking for a right answer. They are looking to make sure you GOT the issue (i.e. KNOW the LAW not necessarily the case), that you have a HANDLE on the rule of law and can form a conclusion whether right or wrong.

[fairfaxvadem]

14. sorry, didn't mean to imply that...

I meant that when we asked if they wanted us to stick to a strict formula on the answers using IRAC, they said they were more concerned with us demonstrating our grasp on the issues, applying the law, etc., instead of worrying whether our method of answering conformed strictly to IRAC, per se...

They have generally assured us that there is rarely, if ever, a right answer, unless, of course, you cite cases erroneously!!! That may not be a good thing to do on an exam...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Got it.

I didn't mean to sound jerky in the response either but again...you really need to be able to identify the rule of law more than anything....there is a real penchant to think you now it if you know the cases and that isn't really necessarily so. Good luck...now get offline and get back to work :evilgrin:

[GalleryGod]

8. What's Your Line-up??

What subjects?
In What order?
On What Days?

:grouphug:

[fairfaxvadem]

10. 3, for an evening division

Mid-term: Property (continue in spring)
Mid-term: Contracts (continue in spring)
Full Monty: Civ Pro

in this order....

Property is closed book.

Other two are not.

[UCLA02]

18. OPEN BOOK!!??

Shit, I've got 5 of them and NONE are open book! Filling my braing now for crim, prop, civ pro, contracts and torts so that I can hopefully spill some of it onto the page.

Open book, shit where do you go to school? I'll be there next semester!

[fairfaxvadem]

21. Really? thought open book was SOP for some courses....

No one else I know has been surprised, and I've surveyed students at AU, GWU, and Catholic.

I know not all will be, but again, didn't realize it NEVER occurred at some schools.

[UCLA02]

22. Not a one of my 5 first-year subjects.

Maybe I should call my congressman or something... ;-)

[fairfaxvadem]

24. No, sounds like I should just stop being a whiner about this...

You clearly are in a much tougher environment than I....

Good luck to you.

[UCLA02]

27. Whine away, my friend.

There are thousands of shoulders to cry on here!

[madaboutharry]

12. Here is what I have to add

This is how I remember it: the people placed on probation or who were asked to leave, were people who I recall as not being very mature or centered. They allowed themselves to get psyched out. In my view, it wasn't that they didn't grasp the material. This is my advice, in the last day or two before the exams calmly go through the material. Try to take some practice tests from a review manual and take the time to write out practice essays with a clock, giving yourself the exact amount of time you will have during the real tests. This really helped me, not only in law school but on the bar exam as well. When you get into the exam make sure you read the entire question, you won't believe how many people don't do that. They start reading and say to themselves "Oh, I see where he's going with this..." and then they answer the wrong question. So don't rush through the question, make sure you understand what the question is asking you. And this is really important: GO TO BED EARLY AND GET A GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP. Walking into the test rested and alert is a major factor.

The second year is much easier, the material is more complex but you know the routine.

The third year is a lot of electives where you find yourself in small classes shooting the breeze with the professors.

It will go pretty fast.

Good Luck.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Great advice as well

[fairfaxvadem]

19. Thank you, common sense does help, doesn't it??

And you are right. It is NOT the end of the world. As an older student I guess I am not feeling like I've got my entire future riding on this. Likely my lack of panic in this regard is making me feel like I am not doing enough.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Well without stepping on that sage advice

The truth is if you REALLY suck in your first semester exam, then you HAVE to do a bit of self evaluation since it is such a huge commitment.

I am saying this less for you than for UCLA02....it is a big deal and it is better to worry, studyyour ass off and drill than to think anything is handled (not trying to discredit the very good advice above but to temper it a bit).

In undergrad, if you did OK or missed here or there you could make it up somehow...if you can't survive your first law school exams and do reasonably well, then it WON'T get easier as time passes.

[UCLA02]

25. Why was that directed toward me, NSMA?

Have I implied I'm not taking it seriously or worrying about it? The hair coming off into my brush in the morning tells me different...;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. No it is because you are younger

The other poster is going to Law school later in life from what I could grasp so this is a second profession...this is the one you chose in the first place and I don't want to see you invalidated after your first semester given how excited I remember you being when you were starting ( WOW I guess I stated that in a clumsy manner...my apologies)

[UCLA02]

31. Dunno how much younger...

probably, but I've been about.

Dropped out of community college after less than a year, THEN 4 1/2 yrs in the Navy loading bombs and missiles on F/A-18s in the Persian Gulf on the deck of an aircraft carrier, THEN a stint with Boeing on an F/A-18 flight-test program, THEN to an undergrad degree THEN a year off working as an English/history/polisci tutor at my local community college, THEN to law school.

In the words of that great American philosopher: "What a long strange trip it's been."
(Though I'm sure ol' Jerry was talking about another kind of "trip.")

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. OK

I meant no insult though and I know you have been working hard. Just making sure I didn't offend. ;-)

[UCLA02]

34. Not at all...

nothing shocks me anymore, either ;-) Been there, done that, got the tshirt.

I don't think I can even be offended. It would probably take a lot.

[UCLA02]

20. Even though this isn't my thread...

I thank you for the advice as I am in the same boat.

Planning on taking walks on the beach the mornings between finals to clear my head. I think that will be the key to staying focused.

[curse10]

26. I'm in my first semester- I have oral arguments on Monday

exams are in a few weeks. Eh. I'll do a basic outline and that's it. I have a reading week so I'll do it then.

And so far, in my class of just over 200, we've lost 3 people. One the first week, the second about three weeks ago, and the third about two weeks ago.

I just do my reading and attend class. We'll see how it pans out.

[JackSwift]

30. Stop the performance anxiety, it won't do any good

Assuming you've studied up until now and done the work:

Go to the library, look at past exams, answer them, and look at the model answers.

The point is not to get the one right answer, but rather to see what the problem is, to spot the issues as they say, and then to deal with the general rule and possible exceptions of the issues.

"Judy takes her completely disabled (vegatative non-communicative) brother Harold to the ballpark where he gets beaned by a foul ball. Harold sues the ballpark through his guardian ad litum. Discuss."

The issues include negligence, premises liability, joinder of parties, assumption of the risk, etc.

Type your exams if you can.

Remember to use your writing voice to write like a lawyer. Having the tone of a lawyer, rather than a well educated debutante, will get you points, and vice versa.

[UCLA02]

32. That's what my first girlfriend said!

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)

OK, back to the 1L comiserating.

[fairfaxvadem]

36. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond...

All of you had terrific input and of course, it all comes down to my comfort-zone and following my own instincts. Hopefully I am a big girl and can deal with this. I've been through worse experiences than a law exam, I'm pretty sure. Just the "newness" of it all.

Okay, back to the property outline....

[seventhson]

35. IRAC

Remember it. I.R.A.C.

Issue (What is the issue presented?) What facts give rise to the legal issue and how do you phrase it?

Rule of Law : What law or precedent applies to the facts. KNOW the rules or applicable and key cases

Analysis: Identify and Analyze the key facts (the decisive facts as seem to be determinative of the issue as it relates to the law)

Conclusion: What does your analysis of the facts as applied to the law lead you to conclude.

Remember that it is the analysis that shows your talent. Alsoi remember that your professors political views may govern what the "right" answer is. Usually there is a curve ball fact that could make the issue resolved in more than one way. If you identify that then you will win points.

Remember too that these are ALL opinions. There may be a clear answer which is most obvious, but your DEFENSE of your conslusion is what gets you points.

I have two trials this week and two next week as well as state supreme court arguments in a month.

Rest is critical for clear thinking. Try to know the key cases as well as you can and the key laws applicable, but just use the above system where it applies and use your common sense to see what facts make your case best: that is how you gain points even when your conslusion is different from the professor.

You got this far so don't sweat it too much. Try to know your latin terms literally to recall the consepts applied.

And, worse case scenario, a lawyers life gernally sucks unless you are really corrupt and like exploiting people.

I work for the poor and it is difficult work and the odds are against me, but the victories are sweet.

I still wish I had become a journalist though becauser the media is where the laws really get changed (public opinion).

Good luck and work hard, but do not worry; it is just a thing to do.

[BiggJawn]

37. $225 an hour....$225 an hour...$225 an hour...$225 an hour...

How much more inspiration do you need?

VCR repairmen Make $19.80 an hour...:7

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. Actually first year after law school most grads make

40 to 50K but it's for 1800 billiable hours which is about DOUBLE that in work ;-) That's why so many law school grads DON'T practice law.. plumbers make more an hour.

[BiggJawn]

40. I made $7 an hour my first few years fixing VCR's...

And those were the big, honkin' RCA 2" TR-600 Broadcast machines...Beautiful picture, but WHAT a finnicky bitch!

Fairfax has still got a better chance at becoming an obscenely rich Partner someplace than I do...

[seventhson]

39. $11.66 an hour

for the first 30 hours on a case.

$40 an hour after that. On average it works out to less.

Public interest law. Slave wages.

[no_hypocrisy]

41. Best advice sounds simple: just answer the question.

Honest. My worst grades came from not reading the question and understanding exactly what the professor wanted to know. In the Buddhist tradition: the answer is in the question. AND WRITE CLEARLY, CLEARLY, CLEARLY. Cogent paragraphs, etc.

Second best piece of advice, when you study, look at the "big" picture. In other words, don't get caught up in the details. Get someone to study with you and then explain different cases to him/her such as negligence and why the cases were heard, why the decision was made, the benefit to public policy as a result, and yes, "the rule" gleaned from the case. It all fits together.

Don't stay up late studying, especially the night before as you need a clear mind to take the exams, even in the afternoon.

I know you will do fine. Don't worry about your law school classmates doing better or worse than you. Trust your own intelligence, wisdom, and ability.

Good luck.

P.S. Try to utilize this format for your answer:
1. Give your answer to the question, short and sweet.
2. Cite the rule whether it's case law, statute, or regulation.
3. Either use the rule if it applies and name the elements, etc. or make a case for this is an exception to the rule, and note whether the exception is found in case law.
4. Discuss how the facts support your use/choice of the law in succinct detail.
5. Last sentence: "Therefore," "Thus," etc.
You've done it.

[lastliberalintexas]

42. Find what works best for YOU

Don't assume that what works for everyone else works for you. Don't stress about doing something just because you *should* be doing it. You've gotten this far, and you know how much you need to study and how well you take tests. Law school exams really aren't *that* different from other tests, and you'll probably score in the same range as you did in undergrad (assuming you actually opened a book in undergrad! ;-))

I did not make my own outlines since I found that to be a huge waste of time for me. Instead, I found an outline from the year or so before and updated it, or even bought a commercial outline and just added to it. Or I even collaborated on outlines with friends so that the work was spread among 3 or 4 of us (you just have to make sure you do this with people you can trust to complete their portion). But you might also find that you are better off studying the commercial outline and your class notes (I got As in a lot of classes by just doing that!). After all, your professor USUALLY emphasizes in class what s/he thinks is important enough to test on.

A friend's motto through law school was "Someone has been here before me and has already done this. I just need to find out what they did." And he ended up order of the coif, law review, etc. He was right thoug- it is important to remember that you aren't reinventing the wheel and that someone probably has already done the work that you can then build on!

Does your law school have a mentoring program for 1Ls? That can be a very good asset for you to find out about your profs. Even if there is no such program, find a 2 or 3L who'll take the 10 minutes to talk to you about your professors and what they'll expect. You'll find that knowing their personalities/idiosyncrosies are as important as knowing the law!

Check your school's library for videos and cassettes of Barbri or state bar lectures on subjects. You'd be amazed how much you can pick up by playing those things over and over again, even if you do so while you're up cooking, exercising, etc. Osmosis really does work.

Tailor all the study aids and tools to fit you. Again, something that worked for me or that works for your friend, may do little for you. Do what feels comfortable.

Most importantly- relax. No matter how much you know, you won't be able to express it if you're so worried and tense that you've made yourself sick. Relax, count backwards from 10, and you'll do just fine! Good luck!

(sorry for the book!)