Is pregnancy in and of itself a disability?

[eyesroll]

(inspired by the pregnant-parking thread)

I don't mean "can pregnancy cause disability," because of course it can. Ask anyone who's been put on bed rest. I'm not talking about that.

I mean: Is the mere state of being pregnant a disability?

[bleedingheart]

1. Once you know your pregnant, life is somewhat limited

what you eat, what you drink (no alcohol), the decision to smoke, and many other factors come into play...a trip to Cedar Point while pregnant is really boring and awful long...

I had such nauseating morning sickness with one pregnancy that I thought I would die. I lost 8 lbs in the first trimester instead of gaining weight and I was only 135 at the start of the pregnancy...
My husband and I had to forgo our anniversary trip because my nausea was so awful....I consider that a disabling condition.

Now not all women have had these issues but no one can foretell what hosting another life will do to your own...

[eyesroll]

2. But is the pregnancy itself the disabling condition?

Pregnancy *caused* the nausea. But many women don't have crippling morning sickness. (My mom, for instance, threw up a grand total of twice when she was pregnant with my sister.)

And it's not that pregnancy renders you unable to eat, drink or smoke what you want -- it would just be exceedingly stupid and dangerous to eat/drink/smoke certain things. But it's still a choice.

Just playing devil's advocate here...

[bleedingheart]

5. once again it depends on the person....I have had high risk pregnancies

but there are others who can run marathons...

I have had problems with blood pressure and even had a bout of congestive heart failure due to pregnancy. I was in good shape before each pregnancy...ate well, exercize ..etc and boom...got pregnant and bed rest at week 31 with the first and an emergency c section due to heart problems with the last...

On a funny note...try being really pregnant and doing simple stuff like tying shoes or getting out of a poofy couch...then it is disabling..hahaha...just joking..

[fight4my3sons]

38. me too... I had two high risk pregnancies

the second one filled with complications, both pregnancies ended with emergency c-sections for different reasons. I almost died the second time from HELLP Syndrome. My doctors had me on all kinds of restrictions due to being on blood thinners (I have a blood clotting disorder) and I was on bedrest for the twins. My first pregnancy I felt great, was in grad school, student teaching and was fine. My second with the twins I felt worn down a lot and it took a big toll physically.

I never thought having kids would be so complicated.

Doing anything while pregnant with twins in the third trimester was pretty ridiculous. I gave up on trying to wear any shoes that had to be tied :-)

[fight4my3sons]

48. now that I thought about it a little more...

I wanted to add that I do not think pregnancy is in itself a disability. As hard as it was on my body, it was a temporary inconvenience. My aunt has MS. That is a disability. She has to live with the effects of it everyday, I had to live with the effects of my pregnancies for less than 9 months.

[bridgit]

3. we were just out for drinks last night with our friends, Ed has...

cerebral palsy effecting his legs and nervous system; while walking to the restroom with him, a n00b bartender told him she wouldn't be able to serve him anymore...when i broke it down Barney Style for her, the angry lesbian bartender said condescendingly, "we all have our disabilities!" but she is wrong in a very real sense...

unless & until you are able to receive county, state, or federal SSI by way of medical certification you are not viewed as "disabled".

[JVS]

4. It would have been great if you'd said "And your about to get a new one...

The dreaded "my foot in your ass"-disease"

[bridgit]

8. yup, that was Curtis's, his partners thought to a 't'...

:hi:

[eyesroll]

6. What does the bartender's sexual orientation have to do with it?

Anyhow.

Let's look at this another way.

My co-worker fell off a ladder and broke his hip. He is not receiving SSI or any disability payments. He is, however, on crutches and he does have a handicapped parking permit, which he sometimes uses, sometimes doesn't, depending on how he feels that day. Is he disabled?

[bridgit]

11. oh, so i see you'll go down any road nessesary...

:eyes: http://www.faces.net/askmarge.asp cause she knows us well, and after we told her, she went straight into what is clearly a gay AND lesbian bar and set her up proper as to just whom they're regulars are, and are not. but make no mistake about it...it is a gay bar :eyes:

your friend isn't "disabled", he may have a workers comp claim but they are two separate concepts. he will be asked as to whether he was 'operating' the ladder via OSHA-like standards, and may have had to take a drug/alcohol test after the mishap but make no mistake here either...THAT is a separate issue.

none of this is to suggest that you cannot become disabled, but the point is clear = it requires sustainable certification to be viewed legally as such and not, "gee, it's cold and rainy so now my hip hurts. think i'll stay in." for that matter, his parking permit would be under review in my state. there are large fines for people that abuse them.

[eyesroll]

13. He has the permit properly, through the doctor.

Like many people with injuries, he has his good days and bad days.
On his bad days, he needs that close spot.
On his good days, he parks elsewhere to allow someone who needs it more to use it. Why would that be under review? (It's a temporary permit, BTW, while he recovers. In most states, you can get those when you're recovering from an illness or injury that impairs your mobility.)

Need it be permanent to be a disability?

(The ladder was at home, not at work, so it's not a workers' comp thing.)

And I'm not sure you're why you're telling me I'll go down any road necessary...I'm merely exploring a topic here.

(And I still don't know what relevance it is to a discussion of disability that the bartender was a lesbian. It's akin to my pointing out that my co-worker with the broken hip is white.)

[Misunderestimator]

14. I have the same question re. "lesbian" being included as an adjective.

Felt like an insult when I read it, no matter if it was meant that way. It being a gay bar is irrelevant. It's just strange to point out that it was an "angry lesbian bartender" and not just an "angry bartender." I don't quite get that. Even moreso, BECAUSE it was a gay bar. Well, then, of course, the bartender was probably a lesbian if she was a woman tending bar in a gay bar :crazy:. Pointing it out makes it sound like an insult that she was a lesbian, or it makes it seem like a generalization about lesbians being angry. So.... :grr:... in order to fulfill the generalization. :D

[bridgit]

18. oh lord here we go not you too...

:eyes: talk about a "you should have been there you prolly would have suggested to your 'sister' otherwise yourself", you can't possibly be suggesting that by simply being born a lesbian you are therefore enlightened to every human condition, that is straight up nonsense and i love you anyway so whatever, gf

[Misunderestimator]

20. Bridgit... if you had posted something that clearly explained that

she was being discriminatory towards him because he was a gay man in a lesbian bar... I would understand using lesbian as part of the description. And I have met some gay women who should be described as "angry lesbians" though not many by a long shot. It just came off as insulting to say "angry lesbian bartender"... and I know you didn't mean it that way. Reading your post below in response to eyesroll makes it clearer to me and shows that you didn't mean it the way I read it. Of course I am not enlightened to every human condition, silly. I have never pretended to be, and you know that.

I was simply pointing out how I read it... not having been there and you not making it entirely clear in your post what being there was really like... I think we are both at fault in this misunderstanding. Peace.

[bridgit]

23. well she was, and if it is such that we are to pray to others for human...

thought, consideration, acceptance, and well-ness...then those prayers need be internalized first.

pick up any newspaper, Honey, this world, this landscape ours, is flat-out strewn with vast ignorance both random & specific. you don't have to be gay, you don't have to be straight to see that it is occurring before our eyes. and too much of it is not pretty in the least.

i am sorry, that this little microcosmic example of intolerance has befallen your 'sister', odd...having befallen a group clamoring against intolerance themselves i mean, that's odd. sorry as well; but there is no excuse.

the boys, my friends i will mention to their credit, are twice as hard on 'their own' when the shit hits the fan.

[Misunderestimator]

24. Apparently we are on entirely different wavelengths.

I don't know this person you are talking about, and she is certainly not my "sister" ... I have no idea why you can't see that on the surface your post was insulting. You never even mentioned that it was a gay bar in the post in which you called her an "angry lesbian bartender" and you never explained how she treated your friend. Don't blame me for your lack of clearly communicating. Calling her an "angry lesbian bartender" is as insulting as calling someone an "angry black bartender" especially when there is no explanation as to why you are using lesbian (or black) in the description. I would be as offended by the phrase no matter what the minority. It has nothing to do with me being a lesbian.

[bridgit]

27. either way there was no excuse...

it was insulting to have witnessed such intolerance from wherever it is come.

[bridgit]

16. then dummy up, the quote is exactly "angry lesbian bartender"...

accent on the ANGRY lesbian n00b bartender in a GAY bar...it ain't good to be running Terry's homosexual, not lesbian; HOMOsexual patrons down the fucking round. you need to get your head around the possibility that even a lesbian can be angry and utterly uninformed. i mean shit! you get stuck on stupid there for a minute or what sheesh :eyes:

there's a place across town the boys cannot take me to because it says right on the fucking door jam "NO FISH ALLOWED". there's a lesbian bar she could go to if she is so clearly disgusted and condescendingly discriminatory toward gay men with cerebral palsy...but not in the place we were in.

would "angry ignorant dumb-ass condescending lesbian bartender" have set any better with you cause my sense is that it would not have. so drop that angle it's going nowhere, unless you are yourself an 'angry ignorant dumb-ass condescending lesbian' for which i am soooo very sorry for you :eyes: cause i know some really great and classy girls, ladies, and women...some are my very best friends.

tell your friend that time will tell as to whether they are disabled in a way that society will acknowledge 'in the daylight', while asking them to be more careful around the house for me. and yeah...

you "Need it be permanent to be a disability" i think you finally got it!!!!!! a disability, as a practical matter, needs to be certifiable and chronic, which is to suggest: permanence.

hubby has worked as a paralegal/advocate for SSI recipients. he had many clients who had a host of various malady, everything from panic disorders to intravenous drug addiction. and nothing happens in the way of compensation unless & until you certify that condition that renders it chronic YEAH, you got!!! that's the way it is in my state. you want people to feel peace-meal sorry for you?

then walk around with a tube of ben-gay in your pocket (and NO i ain't going back down THAT gay road) when you're feeling extra piteous, because beyond the all of it, this world is filled with real people with real problems and they are the ones that tend to require the assistance of the rest of us.

otherwise, there are a million medical scams out there somewhere. of that there can be no doubt.

[GirlinContempt]

42. A disability doesn't need to be chronic

1.
1. The condition of being disabled; incapacity.
2. The period of such a condition: never received a penny during her disability.
2. A disadvantage or deficiency, especially a physical or mental impairment that interferes with or prevents normal achievement in a particular area.
3. Something that hinders or incapacitates.
4. Law. A legal incapacity or disqualification.

Most states seem to have temporary disability laws, and insurance companies offer plans for it. So I'd say legally speaking, it doesn't have to be a permanent state.

[bridgit]

44. as stated above, it is possible to 'become' disabled...

pregnancy is not a 'disability', it is a condition; when i birthed my son, Robert, he was done so by C-section...i was disabled for a time. but i am not disabled now. in that it was temporary. hubby was on temp disability after a surgery; same issue. disability due to the condition of having been splayed open for a time specific, and then sutured closed.

long term, full blown, in your face, you have to deal with this every day disability, can certainly tends to be a long term matter requiring oft times updated, or periodic certification to sustain.

your definitions are flat. by them, you could, or are to be considered disabled by leaning the flat of your hand onto a red-hot stove = ouch. that may not speak to a disabled state, in a compensatory sense, unless perhaps you're going for some protracted angle vis-a-vis dementia, or mental incapacitation, which is rolled up into the certification component in that you will be asked as to whether you feel you need long term help with daily life functions as commons as personal hygiene, getting on & off the toilet, in & out of the shower, or balancing your checkbook.

these matters of disability are real to whatever degree. they are not flat. they are 3 dimensional.

[GirlinContempt]

46. Nothing in that definition insinuates anything of the sort

[bridgit]

47. no, not your above my above...

but this subject has imo become stupid

[Beware the Beast Man]

22. Those damn angry lesbian bartenders!

x(

[Misunderestimator]

29. Doh.

:rofl:

[PassingFair]

7. I voted other.

I have been pregnant twice.
As with any other consideration regarding pregnant females, I think this is up to the individual. In the last weeks of my pregnancies, I certainly felt that a handicap sticker would have come in handy. I had swelling in my ankles during the end of my last pregnancy.

Each individual is different. Each pregnancy is different.
As with the decision to carry to term or abort, this is the
individual woman's prerogative.

[Moosepoop]

9. I got "short-term disability" payments when I was pregnant.

This was through my employment, not a government program, but I was still very surprised when I found out that the disability insurance I carried did cover pregnancy-related time off from work.

In essence, any medical reason for which a doctor said the patient is excused from working (in writing) was covered as a disability under the plan. Therefore, my time off for giving birth and recuperating from that was covered and paid for. But I worked throughout the entire pregnancy, on my feet the whole time, and took my leave after my shift had ended and I had been in the beginning stages of labor for several hours.

Some pregnancies are debilitating, some aren't. For some pregnant women, there are conditions or complications that cause disability of one sort or another until after the baby comes. For those people that are perfectly able to cross a parking lot without aid, they should do so, whether pregnant at the time or not.

[rbnyc]

10. It depends on the pregnancy and on the woman.

But it is the case often enough that pregnant women deserve the same considerations and protections as other disabled people.

[fortyfeetunder]

12. I think it's a YMMV for most women

I had only one, but for my experience, being incapacitated was never an issue, I never looked for a close in parking space.

However, I know numerous moms 2B, especially those with young children, who definitely needed closer-in parking and I think the offering of those parking spaces are appropriate and needed.

[gollygee]

15. Last trimester

Exhausted, huge, hard to waddle back to your car, impossible to carry much.

[dolo amber]

17. It's the diasbility that keeps on giving

:cry:


edit: See what I mean? I can't even SPELL "disability"!! :D

[philosophie_en_rose]

19. Yes.

As you mentioned, pregnancy can be a cause of disability. For instance, many pregnant women have back pains. The back pains are the disability, not the pregnancy.

However, some pregnancies involve many limitations and the need for care. For instance, I had a cousin that was just damned tired from hauling her fetus around. My cousin was tiny; the fetus was huge. No specific reason other than pregnancy. (She appreciated pregnancy parking spaces, because she said she was too slow to avoid being hit by crazy drivers in the far reaches of the lot.)

In addition, there are precautions that some pregnant women sometimes need to take. More breaks at work. More time to walk from place to place. Obviously, this doesn't apply to early pregnancies or all women, but it does apply to many.

The word "disability" has negative connotations, so I hesitate to use it in regards to a natural phenomenon for women. It implies being a woman is a disability. However, disability really just means a difference that needs to be accomodated.

[Beware the Beast Man]

21. Oh, for fuck's sake. Just give them the parking spot next to the HC ones.

:P


Everytime I'd stop at Giant Eagle, I never once muttered, "Fucking breeders! What makes them so special that they get their own damn spot??"

[Midlodemocrat]

25. LOL. Me, neither.

I also don't mind the spaces for shoppers with children. I usually don't park there because my kids are older, but I did yesterday because it was pouring and I had my little one and her two friends with me.

[eyesroll]

30. I'm beginning to understand the spaces for shoppers with children.

I've done the drop-off-and-hang-out-in-the-vestibule-while-dad-parks-the-car thing a few times, and there's nothing better than trying to corral a three-year-old doesn't want to be there and is alternatively running away and shouting for mommy (when you're female and not mommy).

(And, for the record -- I do think if a merchant wants to offer the pregnant parking or other special parking spots on private property, it's their prerogative, so long as they don't actually enforce it by calling the police).

[ET Awful]

31. Thank you.

That about sums it up.

If the proprietor of a business wants to give a pregnant woman a closer parking space, fine. It's pure courtesy. It's no different than say . . . giving up your seat to a pregnant woman on the bus or train. It pure courtesy.

Sorry, but I'm kind of a nice person. I'm not going to say "Fuck that pregnant broad, let her park out in the back of the fucking lot like everybody else, it's her fault she got pregnant."

Just let her have the freakin' parking spot already.

[bleedingheart]

40. When I was 7 mos pregnant with my daughter I was at Disney

with my toddler son and husband and we traveled on the subway thing...both hubby and I were standing and the only person who gave up their seat for me was an elderly fellow who had problems walking...meanwhile...I was okay without the seat but he insisted I have it. This tram was full of far healthier people but there was only two gentlemen...my husband and that fellow.

Just this December I was in Florida for a conference and over the weekend I went to disney with a colleague...the bus to get to the park filled up and when this fellow with a baby got on..my coworker and I gave up our seat for him...there was no way it would be safe for him to stand and hold that baby...but no one else even offered...gives you an idea of how "mannerly" people really are sometimes..

[ET Awful]

41. I've always given up my seat in those situations. One time though,

I was with one of my old roommates, I was standing, she was sitting. An elderly guy got on the train with a white cane, tapping his way on to the train, she got up and let him have the seat. I mean, who wouldn't give up their seat to a blind man right?

30 seconds later, the guy looked at his watch to see what time it was :P

[miss_american_pie]

36. We got yelled at by a Giant Eagle employee

Because my husband was with me and we parked in that spot. I don't understand how that negated my big huge stomach and fainting spells, and made sure to call and complain to the manager the next day.

Is it not common knowledge that pregnant women can be testy?

[antigone382]

52. lol...

Beast Man, you're the greatest.

[William Bloode]

26. By definition i chose no.

Because by definition to be officially disabled your condition must be expected to keep you out of work for 1yr.

I will concede those last few months can be hell, and some women the whole pregnancy is hell.

[bridgit]

28. there it is, William...

:hi:

[William Bloode]

32. And there it goes.....

'morning bridgit. :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Only by definition of social security or some other legal concept

-by definition, disability is anything that results in SOME incapacity and that is true of pregnancy at the beginning and as it progresses. From the moment a woman is told she is pregnant, she is advised of certain things she can't do. As time progresses, she is told of MORE things she can't do.

BTW...in Canada, not only is pregnancy a disability, having the child is a disability that warrants one year off work for the mother.

If anything, the OP begs the question "DEGREE OF DISABILITY" not whether it IS a disability.

[William Bloode]

34. I just used the SS/Dis guidelines.

I am not going to argue "degree". Any fool knows a pregnant woman can't or is not supposed to partake in certain activities.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. There are legal disabilities and medical disabilities

I was simply drawing the distinction. There are many disabilities that are painful, cause impairment and render a person unable to function properly in the workplace or compete in the labor force for which social security provides no compensation. Using social security rules and parameters to define disability in all cases would be faulty reasoning since their definitions exist to define that for which they will pay compensation.

[William Bloode]

37. And like i said...

I am not going to get into that aspect of it. I am not a lawyer, or other qualified legal consultant. I used the guideline i know. As stated my personal feelings may be different.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. My apologies..you stated "BY DEFINITION" as though your

definition were true and correct in all circumstances and did not qualify it as pertaining to social security when you posted it. Since disability is my business, I would hate for someone to read your post and presume it to be correct. Furthermore, even by social security definition, it need not result in ONE YEAR of disability in all cases since a terminal diagnosis can also qualify someone for social security disability even if they can work at the time of diagnosis.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

56. That's the federal definition

under Social Security. However, federal law was not intended to take up the entire area of disability law and state disability is intended to fill in the gaps. In California, you start receiving temporary disability benefits after 3 days of lost time on the job and SDI includes payments for temporary disability due to pregnancy. The key is whether something is temporarily disabling or permanently disabling. Pregnancy is clearly a condition of only temporary disability.

[CanuckAmok]

43. pregnancy is voluntary. No special treatment should be obligatory.

I park in the "mothers and mothers-to-be" spaces at the grocery store when there aren't any other convenient spaces. Why? Because being pregnant or having young children is a choice someone makes, and people have successfully managed to get across mall parking lots with a bun in the oven and/or two screaming toddlers in tow for decades. Now all of a sudden there's "family parking" right next to the handicapped spaces because yet another retailer is sucking up to the "consumers-to-be" crowd? The hell with that, I say. My money is just as good as the Baby Factory's, and I won't be penalised just because I have decided to not have children.

Nuts to that.

(of course, I would never park in a handicapped spot; that's a whole other kettle of fish)

[mzteris]

45. Perceived

disabilities are considered disabilities.

As in - an employer won't hire you because you are pregnant. (Or can get pregnant.)

or limit you from certain jobs, or pass you over for that promotion, or pay you less . . .

[eyesroll]

50. By your analogy, being black is a disability.

As in, an employer won't hire you because you are black.

:shrug:

[mzteris]

55. Unfortunately,

that happens, too.

:(

[Corgigal]

49. That last trimester for some women

can be a kicker. Breathing can be difficult due to the baby positioning. You can have leg and even back spasms and whole body is overworked. I lost a good friend because she stroked in her last trimester. She and the baby boy didn't make it. She was in her 30's and left a hubby and a young child alone. This happened in the 90's not 1920.

I will always assist in anyway I can a women who's pregnant. I find it rude not too.

[Oeditpus Rex]

51. As far as I'm concerned, no one is disabled unless

they believe they are.

Look at this guy (he said, injecting humor into a rather contentious thread). He lost both arms and both legs and wanted to keep fighting.



"All right, we'll call it a draw."

[BamaGirl]

53. Depends on the pregnancy

They are all different afterall. I spent the first six months of my first pregnancy puking my guts up. Is that a disability or not? It was certainly disabling. Second was fine, but the third, oh my God, the words "just shoot me now" were practically a mantra. For nine very long months. Pregnancy, especially after the second, can really be hell on a body. I have noted a lot of criticism/questioning over the years regarding pregnancy from people who have either never been pregnant or who experienced that rare beast, the easy uneventful pregnancy. Nothing like two trimesters of horrible morning sickness to make you give all pregnant women a huge dose of been there done that sympathy. Disability? I give all pregnant women the benefit of doubt, because being pregnant in my experience, really sucks. :P

[DS1]

54. I park in those spots on purpose

It's voluntary. Deal.