Global Warming: Is it a result of man or coming out of an ice age?

[SocalismforAmerica]

I was deadlocked on my position that global warming was a result of humans (anthropogenic), until recently coming across some confusing information. In 1998, 15,000 scientists signed a petition saying that the IPCC report on global warming was based on "flawed" ideas. While only 2,500 or so endorsed the report. Anyway, 15,000 is a hard number to bargain against and that is extremely confusing. I was also recently shown a web page that does the math on global warming, and it concludes that human caused CO2 is only a minute percent of the total CO2 causing the global warming. So if we do cut back on greenhouse gases, it will be do next to nothing in effect. I will post the link so you can view the math: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html This is the only place I have ever seen this information so to verify, I think there needs to be additional sources and a "credible" source to verify that this was not manipulated, incorrect, or mistaken information.



Does anyone have any comments on the 15,000 scientists?

Has anyone ever seen the scientific data against global warming before?


http://www.sepp.org/pressrel/petition.html

[Xithras]

1. I look at it this way...

Either way, humans are in for a rough ride and we'll be better off reducing our CO2 pollution. If global warming is man made, reducing our greenhouse pollution is the only way to save ourselves. If it's natural, the pollution is only going to aggravate the situation and make it worse for us.

FWIW, very few scientists actually believe that global warming is 100% man made, and very few believe it's 100% natural. Most papers come to the conclusion that we're in a natural warming trend that's being exacerbated by human pollution. That exacerbation is only going to get worse as human population and industrialization continue to expand, which is why reducing that pollution to the greatest possible extent is so important.

The fact that most CO2 is natural isn't even the issue. If I take a pair of 2000lb steel blocks and perfectly balance them on a seesaw, a single nail tossed onto one side will throw the balance and cause the whole thing to come crashing down. Our atmosphere is a balance of gasses, and we're throwing that balance off. And not by a little bit either...the very page you linked to shows that nearly 10% of the CO2 added to our atmosphere every year is man made. You cannot increase the CO2 output to the atmosphere by nearly 10% without throwingthe balance off.

Remember that most of the greenhouse effect is GOOD. Without it the Earth would be a giant iceberg flying though space. It is a precise balance of gasses and incoming solar energy that keeps the effect at just the right level to make our world liveable without freezing or frying us, and we're throwing nails onto our side of the seesaw.

[Dangerously Amused]

2. .

:popcorn:



I have to admit, I think this post is much more interesting than your posts here, today:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=4581871#4584155

[supernova]

3. At least this one

has actual words in it. :D

[Dangerously Amused]

4. Yah but numburs is ezier to spel!

[supernova]

5. Mebbe he was postin

temperatures? :think:

[xmas74]

6. ..

Tempted to post this link in GD. Might make for an interesting evening!
:popcorn:

[supernova]

7. Go for it xmas!

Belongs there anyway.

[xmas74]

8. Sure does.

Standby for self destruction!

[xmas74]

9. Here ya go!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x134438

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. You want the truth?

I have NO freaking idea. I know as much about global climate as I do rocket science.

[xmas74]

11. Kick my GD link to this please!

We haven't had a good flamewar in the Lounge in a while.

[Dangerously Amused]

12. OP beat you to it.

Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x133825


:eyes:



Edit: Oops, wrong link. Should work now.

[xmas74]

15. It's crosslinked in GD now.

I need some amusement for the evening.

[donheld]

13. Welcome to DU SocalismforAmerica

:bounce::bounce::bounce:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. You really need to change your name

because a mispelled username is kind of embarrassing, you know? SOCIALISM

Just start over.

[Dangerously Amused]

16. Just start over, indeed.

[bahrbearian]

19. Its Southern Cal. ism for America.. feel free to drive across America

[leftstreet]

17. What is Southern California-ism?

:shrug:

Never heard of it.

[Richard Steele]

23. It's a cult. Members believe in loud shirts and cilantro.

These are the folks who invented the 'fish taco',
so obviously they are capable of ANYTHING,
and should be viewed with caution.

:hide:

[jpak]

18. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

It IS a full moon tonight...

:rofl:

[NMDemDist2]

20. bogus signatures, bogus paper

total bullshit actually. credible scientists agree climat change is a reality

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=2748308&date=19980501&query=jokers+petition

While the petition has been portrayed by global-warming skeptics as authoritative evidence that many scientists reject the catastrophic scenario of global climate change, Robinson acknowledged that little attempt was done to verify credentials of those who responded.

Several environmental groups questioned dozens of the names: "Perry S. Mason" (the fictitious lawyer?), "Michael J. Fox" (the actor?), "Robert C. Byrd" (the senator?), "John C. Grisham" (the lawyer-author?). And then there's the Spice Girl, a k a. Geraldine Halliwell: The petition listed "Dr. Geri Halliwell" and "Dr. Halliwell."

Asked about the pop singer, Robinson said he was duped. The returned petition, one of thousands of mailings he sent out, identified her as having a degree in microbiology and living in Boston. "It's fake," he said.

"When we're getting thousands of signatures there's no way of filtering out a fake," Robinson, 56, said in a telephone interview from Oregon.

Robinson, who acknowledges he has done no direct research into global warming,

[hickman1937]

21. First check your sources.

Your bottom link says that the petition was started by Dr. Arthur Robinson, director of the Oregon Institute for Science and Medicine. A little googling got,

The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine (OISM) describes itself as "a small research institute" that studies "biochemistry, diagnostic medicine, nutrition, preventive medicine and the molecular biology of aging." It is headed by Arthur B. Robinson, an eccentric scientist who has a long history of controversial entanglements with figures on the fringe of accepted research. OISM also markets a home-schooling kit for "parents concerned about socialism in the public schools" and publishes books on how to survive nuclear war.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:5k6Ukgw7SEMJ:www.sourcewatch.org/index.php%3Ftitle%3DOregon_Institute_of_Science_and_Medicine++Dr.+Arthur+Robinson,+director+of+the+Oregon+Institute+for+Science+and+Medicine&hl=en

[hickman1937]

22. And BTW, SocalismforAmerica, welcome to DU. n/t