Does anyone else think the Pentagram icon users are Satanists?

[Khephra]

Just wondering. We should probably get this over and done with and make sure that no one does.

[AnnabelLee]

1. I don't--

not at all.

[htuttle]

2. If you are Satanists...

...then your pentagrams are the wrong direction from what they should be.

:)

[Blue-Jay]

3. I'd answer,

but I'm afraid you'll hex my ass or something.

[Khephra]

15. I'd never do that.

You're a fellow DUer. I save my hexes for Republicans.

:evilgrin:

[FloridaJudy]

77. Me neither

But I'm still looking for that proverbial spell that turns people into toads. If I can figure out how to reverse it, I have a few Republicans I'd like to change back into human beings.

:dem:

[Maeve]

78. Here's some one to contact!

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/patfrog.html

[goobergunch]

4. Not really...

but it would be cool if you were!

[Darranar]

5. I don't...

But if you are, I don't care.

[foo_bar]

6. isn't it a Pentacle with the circle around it?

[Khephra]

14. You're right

It's technically called a Pentacle.

[short bus president]

25. yup

"pentagrams" being those pesky DIA reports about imminent terrorist attack that * never bothers to read.

[madmax]

43. LOL shortbus!

[Sophree]

58. LMAO!

I missed that post earlier.

:D

[bicentennial_baby]

7. No way

Are people that ignorant?

I can understand not knowing what the Chaos symbol is, but if people think your pentagram is satanic, maybe they need to learn a little more about satanism first.

just my .02

[Khephra]

17. You were already near the top of my list of DUers I want to meet

But with knowing what the chaos sphere was you've shot to the top three.

;-)

[bicentennial_baby]

46. Yay for me!

You're good people and I'd like to meet you too! :bounce:

[Khephra]

8. And just in case anyone is wondering what my other star is

That's a Chaos Sphere. It's actually a 9 pointed star. See if you can find the ninth point. ;-)

[short bus president]

16. Just to pick a nit

isn't it 10 pointed?

[Khephra]

19. It could be

But Chaos magicians only use the 9. At least the ones I know. 9 is the number of the moon, which fits chaos quite nicely.

[short bus president]

21. chaos aside,

it's a shame to blunt the z axis like that.

;-)

[DarkPhenyx]

18. Shouldn't there be 10 points?

If it's a true sphere that is? *shrug* Hell, what do I know?

[goobergunch]

23. It would be cool if that extended into the 4th dimension (n/t)

[foo_bar]

26. paste one to a gyroscope

[Sophree]

32. Doesn't it?

I guess it depends on what substances you have flowing through your system. ;-)

[DarkPhenyx]

9. Of coursewe are Kheph!

Didn't you get your latest copy of "Religious Zelot Weekly"?

Seriously though, I am amazed that in this "enlightened and educated" age how many people who have known me for quite some time who suddenly quit talking to me, or even suddenly hate me, when they find out I'm a practicing witch.

[ForrestGump]

10. I figured Wiccans or maybe deputy sheriffs

Though I don't know if Wiccans use pointygrams.

You have stock in Texaco, or what?

[RetroLounge]

30. OMG! Texaco?

"Always trust your car to the man who wears the Star!"

LMAO!

[starroute]

56. You don't know about Texaco and Freemasonic symbolism?

http://www.luckymojo.com/texacostar.html

A further note on the 5-pointed Texaco star logo: This is, of course, the so-called "Texas Star," which appears on the state's flag, and hence it was a logical logo design for a gasoline company based in Texas...but there is more to it than that.

<snip>

The Republic of Texas was founded in the 1830s by a group of Freemasons (Austin, Houston, Travis, Bowie, Crockett et al). . . . When Texas became a state in the United States, it retained the same flag it had had as a republic. Thus, whether or not the owners of the Texaco company knew it, they were carrying a Masonic emblem for the Great Architect of the Universe across the nation with their gas stations.

[Sophree]

61. See, we are right

Oil companies ARE EVIL! ;-)

[demnan]

11. No but I think you should rephrase your question:

Does anyone else think we Pentagram icon users are Satanists?

As far as I know, Satan always uses correct grammar.


:silly:

[Khephra]

12. How about "the" instead of "we"

I don't want to be speaking for others. ;-)

[foo_bar]

13. Satan's not a grammar nazi

why is the ;silly; icon distinctly Rastafarian?

[blm]

20. not me...I assume

that you're all "chain-pullers"....and post with tongues firmly planted in your cheeks. ;)))))

[silverweb]

22. I sure don't...

...considering as how I wear a pentacle ring.

But my daughter has been asked by one teacher and several classmates if her pentacle necklace meant she worshipped Satan. She's described looks of complete confusion when she has replied that she doesn't even believe in "Satan." :D

We've both used the opportunity to explain the meaning of the five points of the star and their significance to us, so it's been a positive experience for everyone. Most people have been pretty openminded about it, with only one or two exceptions.

:hi:

[Pepperbelly]

24. it never even occurred to me...

:shrug:

[RetroLounge]

27. Never crossed my mind

Years ago I had a white-hot relationship with a Wiccan woman (a redhead, no less) who set me straight on the religion, the symbolism, the terms, and the prejudice associated with it, and gave me great respect for it.

She even gifted me a pentacle on a leather chain, and a pack of Norse Tarot cards which is in the tradition of my Nordic anscestry.

So no, the icon is not satanic, just sexy, like she was...

(Oh I can still hear her: "It's NOT a dagger, it's an Athame"(sp?)

[Tinoire]

28. Strange to say but I don't really care

I believe you're an FM from things you revealed to us, and while I have serious reservations with them from a religious point of view, you are a warrior brother in this fight and have never done anything that would make me think poorly of you or your opinions (quite the reverse!).

I noticed that, thought it could be, thought it could be something else, didn't even take the time to think about it or care. It just wouldn't be any of my business regardless.

We're all on our individual spiritual paths and no one has a right to knock someone else's.

If it were and you really were, you'd be at that "other" Bush-loving site anyway :) ((Joke Keph))

[Khephra]

33. Thanks!

I know we've locked horns (hehehe) on Masonry before, but that's understandable. Masons tend not to defend themselves, which is changing a bit since people like Pat Robertson got into the Mason bashing game.

You'd actually be surprised by the Masons in my Lodge. Half of them are under 35 and all of the young ones HATE Bush with a passion.

(btw, you've now entered my list of "DUers that I've disagreed with heavily, yet would defend them with my life" for that post. ;-)

[Tinoire]

48. Thanks Keph!

You are main the reason I never ever want to weigh in on FMs again at DU (on edit and let's just make that anywhere else)! I've known quite a few in my life and they were all wonderful people. One of them impressed the beejezuz out of me when I saw him picking up all the trash on a highway in Texas with a swarm of young kids because the FMs had adopted that stretch. That one became even more than a close friend so I know the FMs do a lot of good and have their hearts in the right place. And that's all that counts to me. You're an awesome poster and I have the utmost respect for you!


Thank you for that kind, kind post and thank you for that last thing ;) It's reciprocal!

[lazarus]

29. pointing the wrong way for that

:evilgrin:

[Sophree]

31. Absolutely not!

We've talked about this before and I was afraid that you misunderstood my position.

Pagan history is MY history. They are MY ancestors (Celtic.) I am also a Christian and I don't think (as some people do) that the two are incompatible.

Honestly, I believe some people at the highest levels of gov't have adopted some these symbols and have used them for evil and nefarious purposes. I'm sorry, but the seeing eye in the pyramid on the dollar bill and the TIA symbol creep me out (and other stuff like that.) I believe that they are working for the dark side and that, to me, is Satan.

But do I believe that all Pagans or adopters of Pagan symbols are Satan worshipers? Absolutely not! I find it funny that anyone would think that I would think so.

I've participated in Pagan ritual before at music festival. I've read Terrance McKenna's "Archaic Revival" and agree that many Americans of Celtic descent should look to our own history, instead of focussing on Eastern religion to fulfill the void in our spiritual lives.

My beliefs come from a combination of my historic Pagan roots (love of nature,) Christianity (I believe that God created this beautiful world and He is giving us the gift of life so that we may enjoy it,) and Buddhism.

Peace.

Edited for grammar

[Khephra]

34. See the last line of post 33

It relates to you too.

:-)

[Sophree]

37. OK, cool

That is very nice of you.

:-)

[Khephra]

36. Actually, I would like to add something to this

"Honestly, I believe some people at the highest levels of gov't have adopted some these symbols and have used them for evil and nefarious purposes. I'm sorry, but the seeing eye in the pyramid on the dollar bill and the TIA symbol creep me out (and other stuff like that.) I believe that they are working for the dark side and that, to me, is Satan."

Yep. I don't disagree. Now that I've actually become a Mason, I've found out about a lot of groups that use Masonry and symbology in perverted ways. They're called "clandestine Masons" by regular Masons, and they have no dealings with such groups.

[Sophree]

38. Wow!

I'm speechless. Cool, keph.

Thanks for getting all this out in the open.

See everyone? All we need is a little communication, with a dash of understanding and pinch of open-mindedness.

:loveya:

[Khephra]

39. There's one thing most people don't know about Masonry

And that in America there's two subjects that you can NEVER, and I mean NEVER talk about in Lodge--and those are religion and politics.

French Masonry is where all the weird political shit has happened...and a bit in Germany too.

[Khephra]

45. You know?

Admitting that you're a Mason on DU is a little like coming out of the closet. You always worry about what your family will say more than anything else.

(and yes, I do know what's that like because I thought I was gay for a few years.)

[Sophree]

50. PFLAG for Masons?

I guess that would be PFM. Not as catchy.

I think that most adults and mature people on this board would not have a problem with any of the choices you make in your own life. Not to worry.

[short bus president]

73. Um, Kef...

do you have to kill us now?

[goobergunch]

41. *begins to laugh evilly*

I'm sorry, but the seeing eye in the pyramid on the dollar bill and the TIA symbol creep me out (and other stuff like that.)



:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

Sorry, but I am an evilDUer...Good post, though!

[Sophree]

60. Did you post "the eye?"

I can't see it. There's just an X in a box where a graphic should be.

If so, I just figured out what you meant. LOL!

[Tinoire]

51. That was a very nice post

Thank you for putting down your thoughts so clearly and so beautifully. I surmised a while ago that it's all boiling down to good versus evil and that religion, wiccanism, party affiliation, manipulated nationalism, exploited symbols, and whatever else anyone cares to thrown in, etc... have very little to do with it.

It's ultimately good versus evil, love versus hate, caring versus selfishness and greed.

I am proud and honored to stand with all my fellow DUers who recognize the true evil staring us in the face!

[Sophree]

54. Thank you

"It's ultimately good versus evil, love versus hate, caring versus selfishness and greed."

I couldn't agree more.

[Tinoire]

70. Boy am I glad I stopped by the Lounge today!

I always enjoy these conversations where we get to know each other better by seeing our non-political sides!

Terwilliger was right one day months ago when I was disparaging the lounge and saying it was a waste of time, of precious bandwidth and he told me I was wrongm, that "an awful lot of work gets done in the lounge". I see what he meant!

I'm glad we talked (not that we ever had any run-ins or anything!)

Peace

[Sophree]

71. Wise words from Terwilliger

"Terwilliger was right one day months ago when I was disparaging the lounge and saying it was a waste of time, of precious bandwidth and he told me I was wrongm, that "an awful lot of work gets done in the lounge". I see what he meant!

I'm glad we talked (not that we ever had any run-ins or anything!)"

Me too.

[Khephra]

55. you know

I never believed in good or evil until Bush.

[Tinoire]

68. and I only had a vague notional belief

until the elections when I started researching the under-side of GWB. Baker's introduction into the scene clinched it for me. Here was a man I'd seen a thousand times on TV in the past, a thousand times in military hall-ways yet in 2000, the first time he appeared on TV when he quickly dropped an important Carlyle meeting in Saudi Arabia (had been tracking Carlyle and Bush's investments for about 2 weeks at that time and knew how big that meeting was), well a SHIVER ran down my spine when he appeared on national TV, smooth, unctuous and just dripping evil.

Call it a 6th sense that has never let me down. From there it just got worse as I watched the exploitation of religion, the war-mongering, the catastrophic axing of everything our country had, the diplomatic disrespect to our allies which began practically on day 1, the total lack of sensitivity to the poor, hungry and hurting in this country- it just got worse. This coupled with old religious predictions of what would be happening in our country right about now. It's literally, for me, as if the gates of hell had opened. And watching Bush parade himself as the second coming to millions is the most frightening aspect of it.

Dweeb posted this in DG in a thread called Christian Nation:
http://www.bushflash.com/faith.html

I find it frightening!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. Anyone who thinks so probably thinks all liberals are Satanists

[LWolf]

40. Nope.

I'm not sure what you are, except a man.
And a fellow DUer.

Besides, I like to walk my talk. So I'm relatively religion-bias free, as humans go!

[Khephra]

44. I'm a religious mutt

I think it was Jefferson who said "I belong to a sect of one."

When I do religious tests on the net, my top test results end up being Quaker/UU/Wiccan.

I believe God (or whatever you want to call the Divine) reveals itself to all people in the ways in which they can understand it, according to their culture and time.

In that sense, I believe all religions to hold an element of truth, just not all of it.

[blondeatlast]

64. Wow; birds of a feather . . .

I end up being Quaker or UU every single time, even though I explore other beliefs constantly. In fact, the first time on Beliefnet, I scored 100% Liberal Quaker.

I knew the symbol wasn't Satanic, but wasn't sure what it was. Thanks for clarifying!

On edit: The ninth point is coming toward us?

[Khephra]

67. yep

.

[LWolf]

66. Grin

When I do religious tests on the net, they come back
neopagan, buddhist, and liberal quaker.

From one single sect to another :hi:

[madmax]

42. Not you Kheph

You're just a guy who can only date girls with blue hair. Don't know about the rest of the pentagram users. Most likely a bunch of pagans :evilgrin:

[IndianaGreen]

47. No, they are not Satanists, but real Satanists get a bum rap!

The real Satanists are the ones that follow the teachings of the late Anton LaVey. His daughter was on TV recently and she didn't have horns or a pitch fork, which are a Christian myth anyway.

Amazon has 10 pages of LaVey's Satanic Bible that you can read at your leisure by clicking on the link provided after this brief excerpt:

Anyone who thinks of Satan as evil should consider all the men, women, children, and animals who have died because it was "God's will." Certainly a person grieving the untimely loss of a loved one would much rather have their loved one with them than in God's hands! Instead, they are unctuously consoled by their clergyman who says, "It was God's will, my dear"; or "He is in God's hands now, my son." Such phrases have been a convenient way for religionists to condone or excuse the mercilessness of God. But if God is in complete control and as benign as he is supposed to be, why does He allow these things to happen? Too long have religionists been falling back on their bibles and rulebooks to prove or disprove, justify, condemn, or interpret.

The Satanist realizes that man, and the action and reaction of the universe, is reponsible for everything, and doesn't mislead himself into thinking that someone cares.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380015390/ref=lib_rd_ss/104-7882551-5187916?v=glance&s=books&vi=slide-show#reader-link

[Khephra]

49. Most people would actually agree with some of the Church of Satan's

dogmas.

(not that I'm defending Satanists....I just think it's an interesting study.)

......................

The Nine Satanic Sins

by Anton Szandor LaVey



1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!

5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

[yeti]

57. I was always impressed

with the Statements and 11 rules, etc..., but you have to wonder about the wisdom of taking someone at face value when elsewhere they brag about the "power to confound and confuse" and their deity(they say they don't believe in Satan) is elsewhere known as "The Father of Lies."

BTW -- I'd have guessed your pentacle was about Wicca if you hadn't already said that about chaos. Is thelema chaos magic?

[Khephra]

59. Chaos is the movement in magick

after thelema. thelema has a worldview, chaos doesn't. I think I'm going to have to post a thread on Chaos magick soon.

[yeti]

62. You should post a chaos thread...

There are probably alot of people like myself who have brushed against it without examining it, but would like to know more. In my case, I was learning a bit about neopagan religions in general, but was, at the time, closely fixated on "pantheon buffet" style Wicca that was happening on the web, irc and irl.

While you're at it, what's up with "93/93"?

[Khephra]

63. 93 is a numerolgy thing

I couldn't get into the whole mess here, as I'm not that good at qabablah. (or however you spell it)

[blondeatlast]

65. Please, please do!

nm

[Sophree]

52. What's wrong with that?

"Certainly a person grieving the untimely loss of a loved one would much rather have their loved one with them than in God's hands! Instead, they are unctuously consoled by their clergyman who says, "It was God's will, my dear"; or "He is in God's hands now, my son." Such phrases have been a convenient way for religionists to condone or excuse the mercilessness of God."

Christians truly believe that God is merciful. What's wrong with consoling a grieving family that their loved one is with God? It's not "convenient" if you truly believe in heaven/the spirit world/Seventh dimension.

Sometimes horrible things happen to good people and without getting into a religion debate, most of what I'm trying to explain refers to free will. God does not "control" everything that happens.

[Khephra]

53. The key word is "some"

:-)

[buddhamama]

69. no

but even if i did, Satanists don't bother me.just as long as they're cool i'm cool with them. who they worship doesn't effect how i feel about them.

[Capn Sunshine]

72. You mean you're NOT?

not that there's anything wrong with that:evilgrin:
:nuke:

[kimchi]

74. I am proud to be part of such an intelligent group of people.

I was wondering what people thought of the pentacle just this morning, and figured most here were too smart not to know what it meant, and the others were too liberal to care. I was going to start a thread to get to know some of the other pagans around here, but my cable went down. The first avatar I saw was WaltStarr's, that is how I knew the icon existed. I must've overlooked it that first day.

They're crawling out of the closets! HELP!

But Satantists? Nah. They DO get a bad wrap, like Wiccans, only worse. The two Satantists I've known personally were both very moral, decent people, although I have met lots of pagan wannabes of all stripes. The only problem I have with their philosophy is that to ME, being self-centered is the opposite of what living is about, as part of the human drama. In that regard, one would think they'd have more in common with Free Republic.

(Not intending to bash either Christians or Satanists with this reply.)

[catmom]

76. As a Demonolator I can assure the good people at DU

that not all of us are selfish self centered people.Personally the few satanist that i have met have been interested in preserving the health of our planet, peace, freedom for all etc. All good dem. values. One i got to know very well (we carpooled) was instermental in saving a number of cats and an avid book collecter (any book).

I myself belive in helping the poor and do so as time and money allow. Do what i can to keep the area clean etc. I have not harmed any animals nor had any babies for breakfast (I get tired of being accused of such falsehoods) and will never do so.:-(

Of course i am dedicated to ridding the Whitehouse of *

Shure hope i'm not going to be ostrisized or banned for revealing my religion. :scared: :scared:


Irreguardless it's feels good to get out of the religious closet i spend most of my life hiding in.

[Castilleja]

75. of course not...

:hi: