Do you ever argue religion at work?

[WillParkinson]

As an atheist I do my best to stay out of conversations regarding religion. Several times over the years someone has attempted to get my goat (so to speak) by saying things like:

"What did Jesus do that you don't love him anymore?"

Well, the other day one of the cooks started in because I commented on a gingerbread village that my friend was making. I told her how nice it looked. He laughed and started in with his, "You don't believe in Christmas so why would you even say something?"

Of course I rose to the challenge. I explained to him that "Christ" was no born on December 25th. That this time of the year was chosen to replace the pagan holiday of the Winter Solstice as were many Christian holidays. I also explained to him that Christianity was not the only religion in the world that had virgin births, the dead coming back to life, etc. and that those stories were around since before the birth of his religion. All of this set him to fussing and made him very pissy for the rest of the night because "you're just a damn atheist who'd say anything because you don't love God!"

Why do people ask questions if they really don't want to know the answer?

[crispini]

1. Oh, heavens, NO.

Politics, YES, but that makes for enough excitement in my neck of the woods. I don't even GO there WRT religion. :scared:

[WillParkinson]

3. I can't aruge politics...

For the most part everyone in my area is Democratic. (We're all wage slaves, you know.) So there isn't much arguing as we generally agree on things regarding politics.

[AllegroRondo]

2. "Why are you angry at god?"

I never understood that question. Im not angry, I just dont believe there is a god.

[LynzM]

12. Maybe answer that with....

"Why are you so angry at the man in the moon?" :shrug:

I don't understand it, either. But it must be easier to believe that someone is angry at god than that they don't even believe in him.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

4. I avoid it like the plague

But every once in a blue moon, if the subject comes near enough, I take a jab at the latest stupidity perpetrated by Evangelical or Muslim fundies.

My boss is Jewish -- he digs that. The receptionist/secretary (the entire company fits in a room) doesn't seem to like it very much, though. :evilgrin:

[DanCa]

5. when i used to work i sent out this memo

From nine to five casual buisness conversation only. And I tape a huge note on my mail room cubicle no religion no politics no problem. The republican group left me alone personaly but unfortunately they still argued amongst themselves. Oh well at least they didn't drag me into it.

[MissMillie]

6. I don't like entering arguments where there is a lack of evidence

There's no point arguing over things that cannot be proven.

[WillParkinson]

7. You are correct!

That's why I focused on things that could be proven, ie the selection of December for X-mas, other religions having the same stories, etc.

My friend asked me once if I was raised religious. I said yes, I had been to CCD, church, and all that. She then asked me what happened. I said that there was a good joke that explained it:

A Baptist minister was visiting the home of one of the local families when the son comes running in, all excited because his dog had just had her puppies.
"Don't interupt, Johnny," said the boy's mother.
"Oh, don't scold him, ma'am," said the minister. "Puppies are very exciting. Let's go have a look at those puppies."
So the boy led them to a cardboard box in the basement full of barely newborn puppies.
"And what kind of puppies are these, my boy?" asked the minister.
"They're Baptist puppies, sir."
The minister patted him on the head and left.
Several weeks later, the minister was walking down the street when he saw the little boy playing with one of the puppies in the yard.
"How are your Baptist puppies doing?" he asked jovially.
"They're atheist puppies," replied the boy.
"Atheist puppies! Why?"
"Well you see, sir, their eyes are open now."

She didn't understand the humor.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

44. ...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[tjwmason]

8. No - it's very bad form.

Folk know my religious persuation though occasional comments, and my absence on certain days. I know their's too. It makes no difference to what we do, and is most likely to cause trouble.

The chap you were talking about was being an idiot - but that said, what you said is also rather silly.

Nobody has claimed that 25 December is the actual date of Our Lord's birth. The claim to virgin births in other religions is meaningless - supernatural activity is a basic part of pretty much all religions/spiritualities. That has no impact on the veracity or otherwise of any one (or all) of the religions concerned.

[WillParkinson]

13. I never initiate the conversations

However, you're incorrect that nobody has claimed that 25 December was the date of Jesus' birth. Tommy, the person in question, adamantly stated that we celebrate on December 25th because it is the day of his birth. Many people I know believe that to be true.

As for the remainder, Tommy believes that his religion is the only true one. This has been brought up in the kitchen many times. To set him straight that his religion is not the only one to use the stories he believes as gospel is not meant to diminish his belief but to show him that others have beliefs, too. You may think it's silly, and that is your right, but if he is going to pick an argument with me I think it's better to give him something to think about and, hopefully, digest before he decides to draw me in again.

For my part, yes, I rose to the bait. I know better, usually, but during this time of the year when many of the people at work like to have their little jibes it did feel good to give a little back.

[GirlinContempt]

24. 'He started it!'

is the fallback of schoolchildren.
You take part, you take half the blame/responsibility.
If he's going to pick an argument with you in the workplace over religion, it's better to tell him it's inappropriate and possibly check your companies policies on harassment.

[WillParkinson]

26. I do believe....

that by saying, "For my part, yes, I rose to the bait. I know better, usually,"

indicates that I did take responsibility for my part in the conversation.

[GirlinContempt]

30. Fair 'nuff

[xmas74]

9. Only once.

I'm a Methodist and was recently informed by a fundie that I was not a Christian and that I would be going to hell shortly. The argument that I gave her was that Methodists are Christians and that she needed to watch her mouth(the argument happened at my nursing home job-there were residents standing around us and two are recent admits that attended my church before they were admitted). Of course, she kept arguing and I walked away.
I spoke back to her for one reason only-she had no right to make such a bold statement in front of the residents. She should have kept her thoughts to herself. I spoke out not to defend myself but to defend the residents who might not feel comfortable speaking out and telling her to shut her fucking mouth about crap that she does not know a single bit about. For some of our residents religion is one of the few comforts that they have left in their lives. She had no right to belittle their choice when they had always been kind to her.

[billyskank]

10. Argue, never. Discuss, yes

I used to work with a Sikh fellow and we would regularly discuss religious philosophy. Every single day.

Western Christians are usually not much good for discussions though. They have faith but no philosophy. You need both; religion without philosophy is either mere sentimentalism or dangerous fanaticism.

[Momgonepostal]

17. Discussion is one thing, religious bickering at work is not cool

Occasionally religion comes up, but everyone in my circle is respectful. Actually, religious arguements could be construed as harrassment and are very frowned on by management.

The gingerbread guy in the OP sounds like a jerk. To me, what he should have said when the OP commented on the gingerbread thing was, "Thanks."

[Tyrone Slothrop]

43. Same thing here

I work for Orthodox Jews so I've learned a lot about their religion/culture/holidays etc., but under no circumstances would I ever try to argue with them about their beliefs.

It's foolish and a waste of time.

Besides, I've never understood the point of wanting to convert others to your point of view. (In terms of religion in contemporary society, at least.)

[Loonman]

11. Not really, but....during the 10 Commandments debacle

I worked with a Reverend from an A.M.E. Church for a while, and I knew it would come up at some point. I think most people at work know I'm an atheist, but I don't bring the matter up.

He started in with: "So what do you think of this 10 CMMTs thing in Alabama?"

So I said plain and simple, "It's unconstitutional and exclusionary to boot"


Then he threw me a huge bone: "but all our laws are based on it"

So I told him no, that's completely wrong. What about the 4 edicts that are strictly Christian? Do I get thrown in jail if I fail to keep holy the sabbath day? If I have no gods except Him, etc.? Our laws are based on English Common Law, which is modeled after Roman law. I said if you want to discuss seminal codification of laws and legal systems, Hammurabi beat everyone with getting something down on paper. Or stone, rather.

Then I brought up the book of Matthew, which many Christians conveniently forget, and his take on the Pharisees and public displays of piety.

Then I brought up 'idolatry', seeing how so much more attention was brought to a mere rock with the words carved on it.


By the time I was moving on to the secular organization of America after enlightening him on what the Puritans really were like, he was done and never brough the subject up again.



It always wows 'em when I know more about what's in the Bible or basic theology than they do.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

14. I generally don't argue religion period

Unless I'm warning people / ranting about the Alpha course, Scientology, the Moonies, etc, etc.

[skygazer]

15. I don't tend to argue about religion anyway

I respect other people's beliefs and only wish for others to respect mine. If they don't, I don't think arguing with them is going to make it happen. I do, however, enjoy discussing various beliefs and the differences between them.

As for your co-worker's stupid remark, I would have simply laughed and said, "Just because I don't believe in Christ doesn't mean I can't appreciate a gingerbread village" (what does a gingerbread village have to do with Christ, anyway? Was it a scale model of Bethlehem with a gingerbread neon sign saying 'THIS IS THE STABLE WHERE IT ALL HAPPENED'?)

[RevCheesehead]

16. All the fucking time.

Go figure. :hi:

[Taverner]

21. Ahhh but you're a woman of the cloth

Although exactly which cloth I've never understood. Cotton? Polyester? Probably not naugahyde...

[RevCheesehead]

22. Sometimes, that's the argument.

I prefer a cotton/linen blend. :hi:

[tjwmason]

25. Come over to the Anglo-Catholic darkside Rev'd - lace.

More specifically gin, lace and back-biting. :D

[RevCheesehead]

27. Been there, done that...

I was a church musician for 10 years before going to seminary. Some of my best friends are Anglo-snobs. :hi:

(and don't you think Rabrrrrrr would be perfect as one?)

[tjwmason]

29. He really would

He could be so completely and perfectly prissy about what goes where and when in the Sanctuary.

[RevCheesehead]

31. ROFL

:rofl: Yes! I can see it now... Returning checks that weren't written properly, slapping the choirboys to behave, having tea and crumpets at coffee hour...

[Rabrrrrrr]

34. I would be good as an anglo-snob?

You mean, an Episcopalian?

:7

Seriously, though, not sure what an anglo-snob is...

[RevCheesehead]

37. Yes.

and yes.
An Anglo-snob (or high church snob) is one who not only appreciates, but insists on the finest of everything in worship. Choral works by the Renaissance masters, use of men & boy choir (no women), prefers "smells & bells" liturgy - the more incense, the better...

[Rabrrrrrr]

38. I see - I do very appreciate those things, though I love the presence of

women in the choirs. I love incense in worship.

But, I am a congregationalist, so I very rarely get the bells and smells.

And I prefer the music of the 19th and 20th century in worship... but Renaissance adds a wonderful emotional air to the services. Especially if in Latin. Yummy!

And I do like fine and nice things in worship, but not necessary for me - all I ask for is excellence, even without the smells and bells; but ask that, given the resources the church has, are they doing the best they can?

But, if I were in charge of a church and had unlimited money and had the authority to run worship exactly as I want to, then yes, it would be smells and bells and everything would be high quality and wondrous. :-) But it would also have times of sitting around the campfire in plaid shirts singing camp songs and worshiping god that way and serving communion with pretzels and bug juice.

[Bridget Burke]

45. Just how do the Anglo-snobs "use" the men & boy choir?

I could guess, but a tasteless answer would not be suitable.

[Rabrrrrrr]

32. That's not Kosher, you know

You are violating leviticus. And to think that you are wearing blends to CHURCH.

I'm so saddened...

What did Jesus do that you don't love him any more?

[RevCheesehead]

33. And you leave your leather Ferragamos at home?

:P

[Rabrrrrrr]

35. On High Holy Days I do, of course!

Pshaw.

What do you take me for?

What's a Ferragamo anyway? Is it a shoe maker?

[Taverner]

18. No. I might as well just take a dump on the CEO's desk.

Same result.

[CarpeDiebold]

19. Completely unprofessional

imo to argue religion/politics/controversial topics at work. These aren't your buddies(well while you're wroking, anyway). You're being paid to work and not to raise tempers.

I almost got into a fight with a colleague arguing over Bush and the war in Iraq. I learned never to wear political ideals on my sleeve after that.

[GirlinContempt]

20. It is inappropriate to discuss things of that nature in the work place

and if someone is trying to 'get your goat', just tell them you think it's an inappropriate conversation to be having at work.
You don't have to react and feed this kinda thing.

[Love Bug]

23. Nope. I don't argue politics, either.

If someone really wants to know my opinion of something I'm happy to tell them unless they are just trying to start an argument. Even then I keep it to conversations with my work buddies over lunch, etc. Makes for a more pleasant workplace.

[jane_pippin]

28. Does he think being an atheist makes you blind? wtf?

Next time, go the gentle route that will meet him at his grade level:

"Hey Sally, that's a lovely gingerbread village you have there! Nice job!"

"That guy doesn't believe in Christmas Sally. You don't believe in Christmas so why would you even say something?"

"True, but I do believe what I can see with my eyeballs, and I see a lovely gingerbread village made by Sally. I think the question really is, why do you hate Sally?"

edit: and to answer your question, no I don't. This little scene was presented in jest, of course. :hi:

[Arkana]

36. I say "He created people like you."

That usually shuts them the fuck up.

[Strong Atheist]

39. I only talked about religion once.

:scared:

Luckily, it was a short time job. I will NEVER make that mistake again (I am not always a slow learner)...:scared:

[Lilith Velkor]

40. If he loves God so much, why doesn't he trust Him?

Is his God so weak that His followers have to resort to bullying? What the fuck kind of Christ is that?

[WCGreen]

41. I talk about religion, politics and anything else I damn

well want to talk about...

Most everyone else does....

[philosophie_en_rose]

42. Nope. Because I don't care what most of them think.

If someone is baiting you, they are likely trying to put you on the defensive. They want you to say something that will make them feel victimized. Instead, put them on the defensive.

"It's really not appropriate for you to comment on my religious beliefs."