Raleigh, NC area - where to live?

[NewJeffCT]

I was contacted about what seems to be a good job in the Raleigh area. Before I commit to an interview, what can you tell me about the area? If I do move down from Connecticut, where could a young family live with good public schools - our daughter is almost 3. What major corporations are in this area? I know it's famous for schools - UNC in Chapel Hill, Duke in Durham, etc., but I don't know as much about the business side of things, as my wife would need to find a job, too (and before you ask, she would LOVE to move to some place warmer than CT)

But, the most important thing for me would be where to live, so I could first do a cost of living comparison.

Thanks

[mwooldri]

1. OK: Do you own your home?

Major corporations? IBM, Cisco, Bayer, BASF, BOC Gases, Ericsson, Nortel, Checkfree, GlaxoSmithkline, are all names I am sure you have heard of. They have significant operations in Research Triangle Park, which is kind of in between Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill.

Chapel Hill is a nice place to live, I think.

[NewJeffCT]

2. thanks

yes, we own a home. We'd take a nice convenient suburb, too. It doesn't necessarily have to be Raleigh or Chapel Hill.

[Jamastiene]

26. I've heard great things about Carrboro too.

It's in the same area and from what I have heard it is suburban-like. It is also pretty liberal for this area from what I have heard.

[jmowreader]

3. First things first: it's not called the "Raleigh Area"

It's called the Research Triangle, or Triangle as most people call it--the three corners of it are Raleigh, Durham and Cary. Just a little bit outside the Triangle is Chapel Hill, where UNC is.

What I can tell you about the area is very simple: it contains the largest concentration of liberals in the Carolinas and possibly the entire South. They've got libs in Asheville and there are some scattered across the region, but if you're looking for massive numbers of liberals, the Triangle is where you go.

The major corporations in the area? Uhh...all of 'em? The Triangle is a magnet for very hard sciences, light high-tech manufacturing and pharmaceuticals. The Research Triangle Park is basically Silicon Tobacco Road.

You'll also like the medical facilities in the Triangle. Two of the finest teaching hospitals anywhere are in the Triangle--Duke University Medical Center and UNC Health System.

And with that, were I to be offered a job in Raleigh, I wouldn't actually live there. I would live in either Pine Level, Smithfield or Four Oaks--and I'm leaning toward Four Oaks. These towns are in Johnston County, which has become a bedroom community for the Triangle. The towns aren't overbuilt although Johnston County's the fastest-growing county in the Carolinas, housing prices are still reasonable, and it's kinda pleasant over there. And the Johnston County school system is good.

Quick warning: Johnston County is overrun with freepers. The stupid fucks think Johnston County proves Reaganomics works--slash property taxes to the bone and businesses will flock to the area. Businesses DID flock to the area, for one huge reason: I-95 runs right down the middle of the county. If you're a retailer, you set up a big store at the 95/70 interchange and you will need a wheelbarrow to take the money to the bank in. Ask me about Lew Rothman sometime. On one side of the interstate is an outlet mall with...God, the parking lot in this place is damn near as big as Bush's pig farm. On the other side is JR Cigars (Lew Rothman's biggest store), where you will find the world's largest retail humidor--30,000 square feet of humidified salesfloor. Johnston County has a 2.5-percent county sales tax. This revenue helps keep property taxes low and still allows for good infrastructure.

[NewJeffCT]

4. Thanks

I appreciate the lengthy post.

[Thtwudbeme]

10. and don't worry about what you call it:

My family has lived in NC for 7 generations, I am 42 years old, and I call it the Raleigh area.

Shoot Michael and I a PM if you have any questions about NC; I adore this state! ;)

Stephanie

[Jara sang]

18. Johnston County is where the CIA was doing it's "torture flights".

http://www.wral.com/news/5355295/detail.html

[kick-ass-bob]

19. Well, I call it the Raleigh area, since I've lived in Raleigh for 32 years

:P (well, 28 of my 32 years, anyways)

For the OP:

And the Triangle is not Cary - it is Chapel Hill. Cary got big only because it was closer to RTP than Raleigh, and now it takes just as long to get out there as it does from Raleigh. Cary is the ultimate bedroom community, of 100,000 people. I remember when it was 10K around 1990.

I live right in the middle of Raleigh, and right on a public transportation line. If you live on a line, transport is OK, but they basically cater solely to those who do not have transportation, rather than those who use it as an alternative.

Red areas of the region include Cary and North Raleigh (especially Wakefield) and "down east", with bluer regions around the beltline (I-440), Durham and Chapel Hill.

There are tons of companies, especially biotechs and technologies in the park. RBC is building its HQ in downtown Raleigh. Housing prices aren't all that outrageous in Raleigh, especially if you come from the north (like you said), it's just cheap out in the 4 Oaks area - but you pay for it by having to commute farther.

As for schools, Wake county (Raleigh/Cary/Wake Forest) schools are very good - and have a much better rep than does Durham. Chapel Hill/Carrboro schools are the best, but Orange County (where those 2 are within) are not so good, from what I hear.

[Lex]

5. Durham and Chapel Hill are closeby and are liberal progressive cities.

Out of the two, Chapel Hill has the better schools, but is pretty expensive, cost-of-living wise.

The Research Triangle Park lies between Durham, Raleigh, and Chapel Hill and make up the "Triangle" area.





Research Triangle Park info:
http://www.rtp.org/

[mwooldri]

6. Follow up to my other post.

Since I see you're in CT, I had a quick glance at listings for real estate in Hartford, CT vs Chapel Hill, NC. House prices seem quite comparable actually - I was pleasantly surprised (because I was expecting lots of prices in the $300's and above). Chapel Hill is the nice part of the state... I'd like to live there. I actually live in the "non-ritzy" part of Greensboro.

Cost of living is about the same... you have one power company (it's either Duke or Progress), you have one main phone company (BellSouth), one cable company (Time Warner)... Wal-mart is pretty ubiqiutous here but there are plenty of alternatives and Chapel Hill has a vibrant downtown area.

If it's good public schools you want then Guilford County has a good number of them. For best public schools you need Raleigh, Chapel Hill, or Greensboro (central). Raleigh Charter, Chapel Hill and Greensboro Grimsley are in Newsweek's Top 100 for public schools and Guilford County high schools all make the top 600 high schools in the USA. NC schools aren't really that bad at all. They're certainly better equipped and funded than their UK equivalents (because I'm used to that system) and I know that our county is building new schools at some rate (because our city is growing too quick!).

Winter isn't absolutely freezing, summer is gorgeous. Being an ex-pat Brit I say it's like living in England and Spain at the same time - England in the winter, Spain in the summer.

The politics may be quite red down here but NC is a nice place to be.

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best.

Mark.

[NewJeffCT]

7. My town vs Chapel Hill

I think I saw that $99K in Chapel Hill is like $100K where I live in Connecticut. Of course, homefair.com is not always accurate - I remember seeing that a town in north Jersey was rated as $108K is equivalent to $100K in my hometown... but, in looking up home prices in that town in NJ, the equivalent to my home in CT would be nearly triple the price and over $1 million.

[lildreamer316]

15. HI! I"m native to G'boro!!

Glad to have ya! We live in Jamestown currently. Make sure you check into the NC forum ocasionally.......

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

8. I lived in the Triangle area for 15 years...

I lived in Sanford, which is south of Raleigh and an easy commute (depending on where you'll work); it is still affordable and has a small town feel to it.

Then, when I got married, husband and I bought a house in Wendell, which is yet another bedroom community east of Raleigh and, thanks to the new highways, not a bad commute to RTP either. Wendell is very affordable, but it doesn't have McMansions. Rather, it's old historic houses or small starter homes, though new cookie-cutter developments are propping up.

I don't have kids so I can't comment about schools, though I did attend high school in Sanford and that was ok. Colleges/universities are great. There are many more colleges in addition to the big 3 like Meredith, Shaw, NC Central, etc.

One of the reasons why I left the area is that you really have to drive everywhere; public transportation is still subpar. The other thing is that, although snow is not really a problem, ice is more of a problem than it would be in CT. It seems like people forget how to drive as soon as a thin sheath of snow or ice comes down. Summers are incredibly steamy.

Cultural life has certainly improved since I first moved there in 1989. THere is an active theater season, opera, ballet, choral groups etc. The big attraction, in my opinion, is the area's men's college basketball, especially with the big 3.

March is truly a crazy time around there, especially if you become a hard-core fan of a particular school (talking from personal experience, there).

FOr the most part, it's still a red area. There are pockets of like minded individuals, but the red people are very vocal. Out of state people are changing the balance of things. Of the area, Chapel HIll and Carrboro (a surrounding town) are certainly some of the most liberal areas in the country and very gay-friendly.

Although housing prices have definitely gone up since I moved there, they are most certainly lower than housing costs in CT, so you should not have trouble finding something you like and can afford.

Best of luck to you!

[NewJeffCT]

9. Thanks

I did do a bit of research & saw that East Chapel Hill HS is outstanding...

I posted elsewhere, but my town in CT and making $100K is like $99K in Chapel Hill. The Hartford area of CT is much cheaper than the Gold Coast down near NY.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

11. Raleigh's Broughton HIgh is also very good

and Clay Aiken's alma mater :P

A lot of the theater stuff is run by Ira David Wood who is Evan Rachel Wood's father (of Thirteen fame).

Also, Emily Procter of CSI: Miami is from Raleigh. There is a long list of basketball players who attended or played in the area and I'm sure that there are other famous people from there (in addition to me, of course :D)

[marions ghost]

12. so true about public transportation ...

in the Triangle area.

It is abysmal, a real testimony to the lack of vision and sensible planning in the 90's--meanwhile the area exploded with newcomers that have made driving trecherous (of course if you're from Connecticut maybe you can handle it). Things are so bad traffic-wise that even Senator Elizabeth Dull has come around to the fact that the Triangle desperately needs decent mass transit (which means of course, that the business sector is finally in favor after many years of opposition). Various govt officials have been driving the public bananas dangling endless promises of a real transit system, which never get put into action. At this point they have actually designed the train stations, but no building is happening (and meanwhile they are busy repairing the main highway which was incorrectly repaired (millions lost).

Sorry to point out the negatives, OP, but this transportation issue is a big negative in the Triangle area. I'm seconding NYCparalegal on that.

Climate...seriously it's a roller-coaster. In winter you can wear shorts one week and be marooned in an ice-storm the next. It's possible to have a 10-20 inch snowfall in winter, but usually it's less than that. There are roughly 5 frozen precip events of some type per year. You can't get around in it much because snow-plowing is minimal. Also there can be terrible droughts with water restrictions, followed by a monsoon (often brought by hurricanes) which really perks up the mold, moss and rot. Summer is usually the biggest challenge to those from the north. Periods of relentless steam heat are common...no breezes or moving air (if you come from the coast, you notice this immediately). Not an easy climate. But of course the winter is shorter if that's what you're after. Fall is pleasant but spring is short (April) and goes right into 5 months of summer. Dec thru March is wintry. Polarfleece (or wool) is more useful than down, which tends to be overkill.

One of the pluses of the area that is enhanced by the increased population is cultural events. There is a lot to do, if you seek it out. Liberals welcome. Yeah, don't need any more conservatives...got enough of those ...although some of them may actually be wising up to the abuses of the Bush regime.

[mwooldri]

23. You can add the rest of NC to that...

... public transportation is basically a joke in NC.

I came from SE England - the Surrey/Sussex borders. I was used to ready access to public transport, the village I grew up in had 3 buses an hour on the main route, and anything from a every-other-hour to hourly service to other nearby towns and villages. Needless to say, although I had a provisional driver's license, I didn't drive. I had taken a few lessons, some with my dad (who I managed to completely scare).

However this all changed when I met my wife. Learning to drive over here was essential to get around. She lived in rural Guilford County so public transport was non-existent. Hence I passed my driving test over here in the USA.

I don't find there to be a traffic problem in NC - roads here are certainly in a better condition than they are from where I grew up. SE England has a traffic problem, especially when schools are in session. The town I worked in was 8 miles away from the village I lived in. During school time, I had to take the 7:40am bus in order to get to work at 9am. The bus got in at the bus station (work was about 3 minutes away from the bus station) at around 8:30/8:40am. When school was not in session, I could catch the 8:00am bus, and get into work between 8:20am and 8:35am.

[NewJeffCT]

17. How is the area diversity-wise?

As you know, my wife is from Asia. While I don't expect an area like Chinatown on Canal Street in Manhattan or Main St in Flushing, there is a decent sized Asian population in Connecticut, including a large Chinese grocery store, a few Chinese churches and a Chinese Cultural Center.

I'm sure with the top colleges there, there is at least a student population that is Asian... but, what about after that?

[kick-ass-bob]

21. There are quite a few different populations around, but

they aren't centralized so much. I have seen many Indian (from India, not Native Am.) groceries and the like, so I would not be surprised if there are Chinese ones as well.
Raleigh itself is about 3.5% Asian descent.

http://data.osbm.state.nc.us/pls/census/dyn_census_profiles_l.show

[NewJeffCT]

25. thanks again

I had always pictured Chapel Hill as a small city, but it's really more like a big town... population 48,000?

[KoKo]

29. Asian and particularly Mexican Groceries are everywhere especially

in changing neighborhoods like Raleigh's "Brentwood" area, wouldn't you say? Having come from the Northeast and lived in Conn/NJ area it seems Raleigh and the whole area is becoming very immigrant oriented. We also have quite a few new Middle Eastern Restaurants...but most of the area still dwells on "fast food," and stuff that's very mainstream Southern rather than innovative. Durham/Chapel Hill area is best for restaurants trying to cater to something different. Probably because of the Duke/UNC crowd. :shrug:

[kick-ass-bob]

22. I'm not sure how red it really is

Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill all have predominantly democratic councils and school boards, and Democratic congressmembers.

[faithnotgreed]

13. i lived there for some time

so heres my 3 cents if it helps at all

i graduated from nc state and have lived in raleigh and cary and chapel hill
worked in these places and durham as well

chapel hill and durham are definitely most progressive of these 4 areas but not 100% so
for overall quality of life people tend to choose chapel hill over durham but i like durham
and as with all places it definitely depends on what youre looking for

and i dont know if you are actually looking to live in raleigh or where your work is located and all the other factors that you are considering
but if i were to live in raleigh again i would live in west raleigh which incl nc state/wade avenue/cameron village area
its close to downtown and is more progressive and established area with lots of stable housing and neighborhoods and good schools from what i understand

clearly schools are a factor for you and i have not much to offer you there
my family still lives in the area with one in n raleigh one in cary and one in willow springs

and i will definitely echo the lack of public transportation though i dont know what youre used to or looking for
i just wouldnt want to be too far from where youre going to the most because the traffic is quite heavy throughout the entire triangle area and beyond
there is some public transit through triangle transit (primarily helping people get to work in rtp via cary and raleigh) but it doesnt run on the weekends the last i knew
and there is also the cat system for downtown raleigh but nothing like it should be for such a large area


best wishes to you
certainly its a huge decision

if theres anything i can answer for you specifically please do let me know

[NewJeffCT]

14. Thanks

I'm still not at the stage of having to make the decision to move or not - I just like to be prepared up front in case something does happen.

[NewJeffCT]

16. mid-day kick

thanks for any input

[faithnotgreed]

20. of course

its all preliminary which is very understood

again best wishes to you and your family
its quite a potential change and hope it works out in the way that makes all of you the happiest

[NewJeffCT]

24. thanks

my wife & I have an understanding that we'd move with the other for the right opportunity.

[KoKo]

27. with young kids you want diversity and a mix...particularly coming from

CONN.... Pick Cary.

I lived in Conn. once...Greenwich and Ridgefield. I think Cary would be good to put your "toes in the water" of living South.

I can't recommend any other area for a Dem coming from CONN. I live in the Raleigh Area...but wouldn't recommend it to Dems with young kids.

[NewJeffCT]

28. We just had friends move to Ridgefield

and, they paid a LOT of money for their 10 year old home. But, she is a cardiologist & her husband has a PhD in something else (though she makes more than hubby by quite a bit)

My wife is Asian, so I always look out for that in areas we may or may not move to.

[KoKo]

30. I still think Cary if your wife is Asian. Or, Durham....but it depends on

how close you want to live to where your job is. There are lots of communities near I-540 the ring road to Research Triangle and the links to Durham/Chapel Hill that are affordable. But, they can be "cookie cutter" new developments.

If you go for Raleigh, you might want NorthWest Raleigh in the Stonehenge area if you are looking for interesting houses that aren't old historic but maybe 70's and up to new.

Downtown Raleigh is the "Old South." We were steered away from it when we moved here as not a place "transplants" would easily fit in. It's very different moving to the South if one is a "transplant" and didn't attend either UNC/Chapel Hill, Duke or NC STATE for undergraduate or graduate. If you aren't into Manic Football and Basketball and ready to gear your life around it...it could be difficult in some areas. That's why I say Cary is maybe the best compromise. But, it really depends on where your job is. The traffic is terrible.