My problem with "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" (Bravo/NBC)

[David__77]

Last night, I was watching a rerun of Will & Grace. I like that show, and think, as a gay man, that it's important that there are shows with openly gay, non-"tragic" characters on them. I think it's perhaps a shame that it's so stereotypical--Jack the "silly little faggot," Will the perpetually lonesome gay man, and the two "fag hags" in there varying forms. But after this show, was "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy," in which a group of gay man make over a seemingly hapless, rumpled heterosexual male.

I was not amused, either by the gay or straight characterizations. Not all gay men are catty neat freaks--I know I'm not (and I know my significant other certainly isn't!). And not all straight men are vulgar, filthy creatures with no wit or style. These portrayals don't do justice to anyone. In fact, I think it's like old Black minstrel shows, providing cheap entertainment for the broader masses. I usually don't have such a critical critique of gay-theme shows. I realize this world isn't perfect--but this is just bad! What's the point? Why is it entertaining? What, because it's just so inherently funny the idea of a swarm of flitting homosexuals preening and fawning over a hapless heterosexual man? I, for one, was not amused...

[jonnyblitz]

1. good analysis...

I agree. I am more lost with style,decorating savvy and such things than most straight guys i am sure..

[DS1]

2. heh I was watching that during commercial breaks of Insomniac

(a much better way to spend your time watching tv)

After all was said and done, I thought to myself, that guy looks so gay ~not that there's anything wrong with that~. I think it backfired for him.

[LuminousX]

3. My take on it

I have all sorts of problems with "Queer Eye for a Straight Guy" though I appreciate where it is coming from - making men more conscious of style elements.

We've come a long way. My first 'encounter' with homosexuality was Jack Tripper on "Three's Company". Talk about a bizarro way to be introduced to 10% of the population. "Doctor, Doctor" gave us a regular gay character but CBS dumped it soon after. For a long time, homosexuality was dealt with as a 'very special episode'like in Roseanne and even 'Ellen' gave it that feel. Now along comes 'Will and Grace' where for many seasons we never even saw two men holding hands let alone kiss but the fact two of the characters were openly gay wasn't ever glossed over.

Soon, I believe, we'll move into more realistic portrayals of homosexuals.

[greyl]

6. "Soap" was the first US tv show

I know of that featured a gay character and I think the fact that didn't sensationalize a stereotype was much more commendable than how Will & Grace approaches things. (I despise will & grace)

[NashVegas]

31. I LOVED Soap

At least, I did until the main producer/writers went over to create Benson and left the second string in charge.

As for Queer-Eye, how many of us have never privately joked about or had an internal 'what if' moment about something just like this? I think it was the comedian Kevin Meaney who had a bit about how gays should be allowed in military (early '90s) cause the barracks would be so much nicer!

I see the show as something that's going to be short-lived. We've imagined it. Okay, now we've seen it. The joke will get old, fast.

[thermodynamic]

18. Don't forget FOX's 'afternoon special' in the late 80s

Where JIM CARREY of all people played a serious role; a gay guy who got AIDS...

[GayboyBilly]

4. Well as a gay man...

I thought the show was stupid!

[ldf]

41. and from another gay guy

i thought it was sort of fun. but.....

my question is where did they get those gay guys. and if that is what is cool, hip, hot and trendy, please count me as AWOL!!!!

the decorating ideas were pretty good, but as far as fashion goes, blondie is absolutely clueless. i would never wear what he puts together.

and just what is his problem with hair?? guys with long hair can be extremely hot! they just need to be taught how to take care of it. (i saw two shows with guys with long hair, and his first impulse is to cut it. and one of the guys - sort of a "duh" character - did have a nice head of hair.)

get a grip, girlfriend!

kudos to the straight guys for putting up with it. at least they have a good sense of humor.

and humor will get us places where nothing else will, so it is good that it can be used to get straights used to us.

face it, gays can be a lot of fun to be around.

edit - punctuation

[lazarus]

55. I agree on Carson

Some of his fashion is good, but he's addicted to some really ugly denim stuff.

As for the hair, the first guy, the artist, needed a cut and shave badly. Mrs. Laz thought he looked hot after the treatment. The other guy with long hair they didn't actually cut off, they just trimmed it and shaped it and layered it; it came out looking great.

Wait until they do a shaved head. :evilgrin:

[davidinalameda]

5. I liked it

It reminded me of this show on BBC America where you have three straight women doing a make-over on another straight woman.

Face it, gay men can be bitchy. Gods know I can. Straight men can be slobs. The artist really reminded me of one of my ex-roommates, who I love dearly but the boy was and probably still is a slob. Of course so was I.

I digress. It was meant to be fun and I think that it accomplished it. Anyway, who would want to watch it if it was a bit catty?

[TEXASYANKEE]

7. I liked it.

It was light-hearted fluff. I thought all of the guys were interesting and it was a fun 30 minutes. For what it's worth, I'm a straight female and I thought the catering guy and the hair stylist were hot! Compared to other crap on the tube these days, I would watch this show again.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. Those two are on my "hottie" list too!

Just because they aren't into vaginas doesn't mean I can't fantisize. ;)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

8. I think the most important thing about this show..

is that it sends a message that straight boys don't need to be afraid of gay men, because at the end of the day, it's usually those straight boys who take the baseball bat or tire iron to some gay man's head.

I like that message modeled for America on TV. I like watching a nice, teddy bear, Jewish guy sit there with a swishy queen's arms wrapped around his neck and NO ONE IS DYING BECAUSE OF IT.

We need all of that we can get.

[TEXASYANKEE]

15. Right!

And I can SOOOOOOOO relate to your signature!!! Say, that could be fodder for another show -- 5 perimenopausal women "remake" a man! Guess it would have to include a violence warning though, maybe not appropriate for small children.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. Hmmmm....

What would OUR stereotypes be?

The Weepy Woman
(who cries at EVERYTHING including the Pampers commercials with the baby animals)

The Cranky Pants Woman
(who finds everything you do irritating as hell and will kill you if you leave the seat up one more time)

The Hormonally Challenged Woman
(who hasn't had sex in years and frankly doesn't give a shit and just wants a good night's sleep)

The Hypochondriac Woman
(who has all 34 signs of perimenopause and is convinced she has a brain tumor to boot)

The Most Hated Woman
(who just stopped her period one day, had one hot flash, and then it was all over)

How'd I do?

:)

[Christian73]

40. HHNF

That was really my take on it as well.

I think the best thing this show can do is demonstrate that queer guys and str8 guys can hang out, kid around and no one dies.

[Imalittleteapot]

9. I watched the show. I laughed.

I thought the gay men on the show were diverse, although the producer obviously got himself a load of stereotypical diversity. I really didn't like the gay guy coming on to the straight guy, even though it was in jest. Homophobes are afraid of that. If the show makes having a gay person in your living room acceptable, then it's okay with me. However, I understand how you would have been offended. You're probably not a stereotypical TV viewer - which is a good thing.

[TankLV]

48. What I learned from the show (as a gay man):

Gay is OK:

as long as it's VERY stereotypical - limp wrists, lots of giggling, hair dressers, etc.

or

unless he never acts on his natural desires and you only know he's gay because your informed he's gay - every frigging time - ala "Will & Grace".

Good for cheap laughs.


Gay is NOT OK:

if you can't tell the guy is gay (unless you caught him passionately kissing and groping anohter guy - which will never happen).

Still sort of "enjoyed" the show - but I won't go out of my way to watch it.

[lazarus]

56. actually

Carson is the only stereotypical limp wristed gay man. To be honest, the cook acts like me, and I'm straight.

[cprise]

11. Gay is the new black

Neutered, Amos-n-Andy like chatacters on TV and Jim Crowe-like laws going up around the country.

The Queer Eye show reminds me of silly Hollywood moments where blacks teach a white person to be cool or dance.

America is going through its Archie Bunker / Jeffersons phase with respect to us. What's next? Maybe they'll decide to swindle us out of most of our property, then repeal dont-ask-dont-tell and lure us into military careers. It would be history repeating, and wouldn't that be cozy.

I do not fit the stereotype at all: A scruffy environmentalist (software engineer by trade) who reads Chomsky, Scientific American, Slashdot, and Harpers. Some people I've known for months, upon learning I'm gay, treat me quite differently afterwards.

[David__77]

14. Jeffersons analogy...

Funny you should mention that. I considered in my original post comparing Will & Grace to that show or to "Good Times," but just couldn't do so, because those shows in a much more palpable way dealt with being Black in this country. I think Will & Grace is more marginal in that regard, which enables it to avoid being deemed "propagandistic" or somehow overly-gay-centered.

[cprise]

22. But

Archie Bunker's attitude toward the Jeffersons (remember they were neighbors) was not simply about the black experience; it was also the white experience and attitudes we were seeing in those episodes.

[noiretextatique]

50. not really

well, sort of, but the message was hard to stomach sometimes with all the buffoonery....the DYNO-MITES, and the like. but i suppose the did provide some information to people who weren't used to seeing black people at all.

[Giverney]

12. nice

good analysis!

TV just sucks nowadays, with VERY little intellictual thought to it, period. Also, on the web they were raving about how great the ratings for that show were! doh!

[Dover]

13. I haven't seen it (just previews) , but I'll tell you what surprised me a

bit. It showed straight guys allowing themselves to be "handled" and influenced by gay men. Isn't that something that is usually considered VERY threatening to most straight men? I'm female so don't know....but it just surprised me and I wondered if, in it's own convoluted way it was bridging a gap or diminishing fears.

I don't plan to watch this, and agree with David_77's analysis of how all these shows really misrepresent reality (though they like to call themselves "reality shows").

[Norm357]

17. Dover

I am a straight guy, and being touched by a gay guy wouldnt bother me, but then I try not to be average.


Norm

[Dover]

20. That's great....but are you the 'NORM', Norm?

Hope so.

[Norm357]

26. Probably not

But it would be nice to think so.


Norm

[confusionisnext]

25. Straight men love attention

It showed straight guys allowing themselves to be "handled" and influenced by gay men. Isn't that something that is usually considered VERY threatening to most straight men?

Maybe he was willing to do as much to have fun and be on TV. Some straight guys are willing to push the boundaries as long as it suits them ... and then they retreat!

[blondeatlast]

36. The commercials are edited to draw your attention, so they

only show the most "colorful" parts. It isn't nearly as over the top as the commercials would suggest. In fact, it sort of mirrored my husband's reaction when he discovered a good friend is gay; startled but accepting.

I was really surprised at the amount of "comfort" teh straight guys had with the gays. It could be very liberating if it survives. I would suggest that you give it a chance, but that is entirely your option.

[mlawson]

19. I barely made it through the opening credits.

It was as if every word of the credits was saying: "WARNING!!! STEREOTYPING AHEAD!!!".

If I saw that remake crew coming after me, I would run as fast as I could, the other way...

Again, the only thing we homosexual males have in common, is which gender we form attachments to, and which gender we sleep with. And that is all.

[Rowdyboy]

21. My guy and I watched it and loved it!

Does everything have to be life or death? "It's either soy sauce or boy sauce" sent me off the couch laughing. As has already been noted, all that gay men have in common is their preference for other men. We are a diverse and wonderfully odd lot...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

45. Loved It Too!

Speaking as a straight man who spent many happy years living in West Hollywood and has tons of gay friends, I think this show is hilarious as well. The Fab Five themselves are pretty diverse, IMO. Yes, a couple of them do represent somewhat common stereotypes (particularly Carson and Jai), but the others seem quite well-rounded and, well, very NORMAL people. And that's kinda the point, as I see it, namely showing that gay folks are normal (duh), just like straight folks, and that gay people and straight people can interact, and interact wonderfully, with positive vibes and goodwill for all.

The straight guys are thrilled because they obviously are in need of help, and who WOULDN'T want to receive advice and tons of free stuff from experts in their respective fields, regardless of their sexuality? The Fab Five seem like they're having a blast, and that they genuinely care about their subjects and want them to succeed.

Yes, the straight guys are all slobs, but I don't think that's stereotyping: that's the whole POINT of the show. And at the end of the day, when you look at the "before" and "after" photos, of both their residences, of themselves, the differences are ABSOLUTELY STAGGERING. On that first show, my fiancee and I could NOT BELIEVE how greatly improved Butch was, and how much confidence and poise he was showing compared to his slumped, beaten-down demeanor at the beginning of the show.

That was what really struck both of us. The Fab Five really did improve Butch's life. I'm not sure whether those habits will STICK, but damn, you could see it in all the eyes of Butch's friends. And I think that even the homophobic assholes in the world who happen to watch the show won't be able to deny it.

I'm not so naive as to think this show will be the cause of gay-straight harmony and world peace, but it's hugely entertaining, and I do think it sends a good, socially responsible message.

DTH

[arwalden]

23. I Liked It...

I think you may have been expecting too much, or maybe you're being too critical about something that's SUPPOSED to be a bit campy and fun.

We're not talking Emmy-winning material here. This is just the latest newcomer in the endless parade of "reality shows" with a lighthearted twist on gay men and the hapless straight man.

Both sides are exaggerated characatures all in fun.

I *DO* see and understand where you're coming from... but this show certainly isn't the place to look for or expect anything too serious.

Besides... it's just a flash in the pan that's good for 1.5 seasons (if that).

-- Allen

[Malikshah]

24. Has anyone been watching the full hour version on Tuesday nights on Bravo?

Just wondering--the full hour episodes on Bravo are much better--

Why? They flesh out the development of rapport a bit more.
Yeah--we get the occasional "stereotypes" --but hey--get a grip on reality-- there are a lot of Carsons out there. Just as there are lot of hockinspittin bootscootin straight men...

What I like most is that we see straight men not getting their knickers in a twist--they must check out these guys before they agree to have them "made better."

BTW-- the fab five has little love lost for the latest guy's girlfriend. My partner and I were yelling for him to dump his girlfriend and get another one (this was on Tuesday night's show on Bravo)

I don't view this as a reality show--more like a DIY.
I for one am shocked that this is one of few shows in the US that is not blatantly ripped off from the UK-- Hell TLC owes BIG BUCKS to the BBC etc. for all their damn DIY shows

[Hell Hath No Fury]

29. I saw that!

It was VERY clear that the Fab 5 were not happy with the way the girlfriend was treating their make-over subject. He seemed just too nice the guy to have that gal walking all over him in her big ol' boots.

[Malikshah]

33. Carson's lines were the best

W/ the boots, something like "And there's a hooker in Trenton missing her boots"

After the g/f starts using profanity: "And when Ellie is not driving a truck..."

I know the lines aren't exact--but damn he's got her number.

[blondeatlast]

34. Okay, straight, married woman offers her .02 . . .

What I saw (Bravo version; first week) was a cross section of my circle of friends. A couple of the guys just didn't seem that gay at all (I think one was the hairdresser guy?). My "campy" friend is great fun, my straighter acting friend I can tell things to that I wouldn't dream of telling my husband, even.

This is a concept a lot of woman have been onto for eons; they are just taking it to the straight male world (who in many instances, sorely needs it!). I saw gays with a straight guy in an intimate situation, and the straight guy not only not being threatened, but actually appreciating their wisdom. I also saw a straight guy who would just as likely take the gays out for a beer and really seeming to enjoy their company.

All involved seemed to be having great fun as well. I wasn't laughing at anyone (not even Straight Guy), I was part of the fun.

On edit: so true about the BBC ripoffs; I don't watch the TLC versions.

[AmericanErrorist]

27. TLC's parent company

helped the BBC get on air in the U.S., so the debt can be considered repaid.

[newyawker99]

28. Hi Norm357!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Norm357]

47. Thank you

[bocadem]

30. Get off it

Can't you just sit back and be entertained?

There's always someone with a bug up their ass.

[Malikshah]

32. too good to pass up

Not that there's anything wrong w/ that .... :evilgrin:

[TheBigGuy]

35. Me and my partner watched it & thought it was pretty funny.

Sure, its playing on stereotypes, but it does help for "gay visibility", in a more-or-less nonthreatening way, and it also is interesting as it shows gay-straight interaction occuring in a non-hostile way.

I sort of see it as a gay "trading places" kind of concept.

And I appreciate the campy humor, too.

[WindRavenX]

37. There are stereotypes

But I still enjoyed it. I think these shows will do more good than harm by showing straight men that gays aren't out to get into their pants...
Really, I thought it was a nifty, cute show. But I totally understand the concerns about the sterotypes..

[classics]

38. I love it.

A couple of the gay guys are a bit over the top, hamming it up for the camera obviously, but the straight guys will do that too.

Its nice to see gay people openly on television. Its just a breath of fresh air. Hopefully we can see more stuff like this, and in the future maybe some stuff that doesnt come with the whole us-and-them adgenda attached.

50 years ago I think they would have burned down the local TV station if they tried to air something like this.

[Dirty Hippie]

39. I'm no expert

but it seems to me that comedy depends on stereotypes. How can you have comedy without it????

Ever see a lesbian stand-up comic? ("What does a lesbian bring to her second date? Answer: A U-Haul")

I LOVE the show. It's funny. Period.

My partner expressed some reservations. I think she finds flamboyant gay behavior a bit offensive. She is old school lesbian who believes in discretion.

[Le Taz Hot]

42. Personally, I like the show

but then again, as a hetero female I don't have the same perspective. I've had each and every one of the Fab Five as good friends (different people, similar personalities) and, the blond guy especially, for some reason, just cracks me up. ("Fag hags?" That's a new one.)

You ask why it's entertaining. For me, it's new, I actually LIKE the fashion/decorating advice they give (unlike similar shows in which my reaction is, "They paid $35,000 for WHITE SLIP COVERS????" And these people went to school for this????" But I digress.

It's interesting that you like "Will and Grace" as I've heard a lot of criticism about that program from my gay buds. I don't personally care for it just because I'm not fond of most TV sitcoms.

[stanwyck]

43. This is why I liked 1 show I saw

I think it might have been the 2nd one...the "John Belushi" looking guy. I was sincerely touched by how the guy wanted to improve his looks and the house for his wife. This is a couple with small kids, their house was messy--full of kid stuff (not that there's anything wrong with that), and the guy was unkempt in a collegiate kind of way--but college was long in the past. He wanted to impress his wife. He was so cute, lighting the candles and fixing the food. It was that sweet side of marriage that is rarely shown. The gay guys I work with say they sure hope straight guys don't expect them to help them out because they're clueless on the clothes/decoratintg stuff. But I agree with the posts who say at least this is a show with gay guys advising straight guys. And that's a good thing.

[laura888]

49. yes, this really was touching

you could tell he really loved his wife - this is what it was all about for him. And the gay guys put him through the wringer! He seemed on the first take to be sort of a doofus, but his love for his wife was so obvious - I was moved.

(stanwyck - I swear I'm not stalking you :)

[stanwyck]

51. Can we help it?

if we're the two smartest people posting today? Not our fault. Obviously, we have superior taste in men. And who knows what else?

[bushisanidiot]

44. Another Lesbian Signing In For Comment :)

I LOVE THE SHOW! Who couldn't love zingers like "You put a living room where the crack den used to be!" and "Boxers are hot, and by boxers I mean GUYS WHO BOX, not the underwear. So get rid of 'em!".
Carson is hillarious!!

Anyway, who says the Fab 5 are representatives of the entire gay community? No one.. But there is a market for this show, IMHO since I really think overall gay men have a touch more fashion sense than the average str8 guy.. but I'm just basing that on gay & str8 guys I know personally. Sorry if I've offended. :)

[ChemEng]

46. I loved it! And so did my wife...

I was worried that they might go over the top, but it was a very tasteful show. And more importantly, I learned a few fashion tips! It's on Bravo right now as I type...

[mitchtv]

52. not a great show..

but considering the choices. Besides that apt was a mess , and the straight boy desperately needed a makeover. Pretty nelly bunch of queens tho. not real funny better for a segment on a real show.

[realFedUp]

53. A show that has it all...

Decorating, cooking, fashion, humor, some touching moments of self discovery...I love it. These guys don't have to represent anything other than themselves and they do it well. It's like a Cinderella story but the fairy godmother is godfathers who are fairies...(excuse the politically incorrect last line) :-) and Howard...give me credit if you use that line.

[ibegurpard]

54. My problem with "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"

Is the supposed "fashion expert." He's criticizing people for "1984 Gap" and "1985 Gap" and then telling them to wear wingtips with no socks?? :wtf: Ummm...that seems very "1984 Miami Vice."